Philosopher Slavoj Žižek settles the “Is it OK to punch a Nazi?” question once and for all

Sustaining the pretty face of liberal democracy
We're doing a pretty good damn radicalizing liberals that were bleeding heart prior to the whole punching circus. Lots of people were vehemently against it, but as our voices reached them, they're beginning to warm up to the idea of being violent against fascists.

literally impotence, and lashing out.

like zizek said, read some theory, do some community organizing, join a protest group, instead of punching nazis.

Zizek is right, but at the same time, asking for apologies, condemnation of violence, "not promoting" violence, is just as bad and accomplishes just as much. There is no ideological justification, and we need to stop pretending there should be.

youtube.com/watch?v=mmy39crFrPQ

It's amusing to see that, not only you're enamored with the pseudo-activity of smashie smashie LARP time, but that there is also no alternative possible to it. Theorizing, thinking, organizing into a party, discourse analysis, etc.; these things do not even come into your mind when you look at the world through your ideological frame. You are the pure product of interpellation; you nothing else.

Then you're also sick of reading, or using your brain for anything but picking which color flag you should wave while breaking another trash can.

From Zizek's most recent talk (youtube.com/watch?v=08cNrNCAJkk):
>if we just wait, the right moment will never come
If you'd actually spent time thinking for a second, this does not mean literally doing nothing. Critiquing is doing something. Protesting is doing something. Unlike LARPing in the streets, there is action that can be emancipatory. You're just blind to it.

Demagogue.

The Russian Revolution. If you're incapable of seeing how the Russian Revolution is the product of over 100 years of at the very beginning of it struggling to understandi the proletarian condition of existence, you're beyond illiterate and I'm glad to know there's a high chance you'll get your head knocked in at a future LARPing event.

Zizek spends more time lamenting the condition of the world than you even do standing outside smashing a window. End yourself right now.

You're "radicalizing" them to come LARP with you. Little more. At best you are hastening the pace at which the bourgeois state will make it harder to even peacefully protest, or access potentially subversive material on the internet or in libraries. Even having simple talks and peaceful protests may become impossible because of your ineffectual LARPing, and conversely classcucks will become all the more sympathetic to bourgeois authority.

"Barricades are ridiculous against those who administer the bomb."
- t. Adorno

Either violence against fascism is permitted - but then, punching Spencer was utterly useless, as the violence accomplished nothing except for to make some black block spastics feel good for a while. If violence is permissible, he should have simply been gunned down.

To borrow from Zjikzjek, we have become to enamored with spectacle, substituting it for meaningful change. That is what the women's march was, of beating Spencer - all useless spectacle.

...

Okay. That does it.

Zizek is not going to gulag. He will fight barehanded in Coliseum against the Nazis and he will not get to eat until he strangles at least one.

I'll ensure Nazies have broken bottles to stab Zizek with.

Lenin didn't go to to Switzerland to read. He went there because he would've gotten himself executed as a Russian spy in Austro-Hungary. And he didn't go to Russia because there was an order for his arrest there.

He never had it.

So he could replace it with a reactionary caste system because it was the immutable "law of life". Real revolutionary. He also seems to forget the role that the Samiti and the HSRA played in forcing the British to capitulate. What a fucking joke.

Based Zizi.

Except make them a laughing stock.

Today, the dialectic of meme politics finally arrived at an absolutely ebin synthesis. I love it.

Are you high or something? I know it's Friday, but you are starting a bit early, don't you think?

Of course it's not okay to punch a Nazi, all the Nazis are either dead or at a very old age, this is common sense.

Not sure if it was you but yesterday a leftcom was telling us not the make study groups. I was arguing for the creation of one and they were arguing against it

It seems that zizek just wants people to read more and distinguish themselves from liberals who just want to LARP. Of course he has to say it in the most contrarian way possible

You know when Zizek continues to say stuff that is contrarian to the radical left, or, as the media puts it, "says stuff the left doesn't want to hear", you got to ask yourself if he really is a radical leftist at all.

I think he's just an old man who doesn't have any lead in his pencil anymore.

Nazi here, I agree with zizek tbh

lol, he fucking invoked Gandhi

Basically this all the anti Trump protest have made everyone I've known more sympathetic to Trump/more reactionary than have a desire to resist Trump. Honestly while I wanted Trump to win I always thought that Trump needs to start fucking up before people protest because what these protest all these protests are doing is dividing this country more than uniting it for revolution. I know that the far right would be still active, but I think that they would be far less active if people waited until Trump started fucking the country up because more people would be sympathetic to those against Trump than be thinking that Trump is right he must be defended and that everyone who stands against Trump is just a stupid college commie who has no experience in the real world. Tbh it was quite sad watching people who I knew were sympathetic Occupy and people one of my family members who was and still is sympathetic to Fidel Castro and Cuba turn more and more to defending Trump because of the protest. It seems like people don't seem to get that Trump is part of the establishment and that the attacks on him by Clinton and the mainstream media attacks on him are just two parts of the same ruling class fighting each other over a few differences there is no side that is fighting for what is right for the people.

Wasn't me, at any rate.

That's in his own fucking words, nigger (youtube.com/watch?v=k6pyufzQs4I, at a talk with one of the few who actually still accomodate him for it: Belinski). The MSM has continually bashed him for his stance on the refugee crisis, criticism of language policing and political correctness in generall. Hell, he's been banned from the Guardian for saying vulgar, racist jokes have emancipatory potential and that false liberal tolerance is the basis of capitalism with a human face. You're either illiterate or a salty tankie.

Further proof leftcoms are retarded

...

Zizek is right but his reasoning is poorly worded.
Richard Spencer was a vermin until some one filmed him, that aknoledged him and power him.
The correct thing is not to punch a nazi but silence him.
Do not punch, take his website down, close his conferences, etc.
Richard lives for the attention and the victimhood validates him.

checked, but also rejected because you hate him solely for not being an identity politics deviationist

Ghandi wasn't peaceful he killed people for the British in Africa and allowed Hindu nationalists to commit acts of organized mass terror against muslims and supported genocide and apartheid in south africa. Nelson Mandela and MLK weren't peaceful either at all really

SMASHIES B T F O

No I hate him for basically being politically correct. Nothing he suggests is actually necessarily revolutionary, inciting of change, or "politically incorrect", not that the latter is necessary whatsoever.

Surprising, right? But it's true. I wouldn't be surprised if Zizek wasn't a plant of some kind to fuck with Americans.

So you would support, for instance, the creation of a study group?

Yes. It's the most elementary thing we should do: (re)interpret the world, not mindlessly do for the sake of doing, completely blind to what we are actually affecting and how.

So you'll create a study group with me then?

Patently untrue. His latest pamphlet about refugees has concrete proposals that would amount to a sea-change in current migration policy in Europe.

It's true, though. Zizek has done nothing and will continue to do nothing. He is a politically correct mouth piece

Listen to him. He just invoked Gandhi.

Give me evidence he isn't.

Is by today's standards, politically correct.

Reminder…

Absolutely unreal, these assholes are in power. You can't just turn around on oppression and state violence. Not unless you're rich like this slovenian fisted asshole.The he brings up that shithead Ghandi that liberals like him jerk themselves off to when it was other violent groups that brought real change to India.
There was another time when he was arguing against communes and full democracy when he had stressed the ease of modern society and praised alienation. The guy is the definition of a bourgeois socialist, he likes to talk about changing the system but if it were ever to affect his life in any way he would oppose it vehemently. The guy just wants his coffee in the morning and his balls scratched in the afternoon, he doesn't give a fuck about the struggle of the proletariat, it's all theoretical bullshit to him. The fat cunt probably would have killed Rosa.

I'd rather you just join the Holla Forums IRC with me and help cleanse its tripfaggot population with people actually interested in using the IRC for something good: studying and theorizing. I have my own circle IRL I study with.

Idealism is ever the philosophy of inaction and intellectual masturbation.

hahahaha holy shit

Zizek's support for the proletariat, revolution, and the Left in general is always in inverse relation to their closeness in space and time.

He is unabashedly supportive of the French Revolution, since it is impossibly far away. Absolutely, yesh, I shay, every one who got guillotined desherved it, and and so on.
The early 20th century revolutions that failed (like the SDAPO in Austria) he also comes out for completely. It was a terrible thing that Austrian moderates didn't join leftist paramilitaries in the streets.
Then we get closer, to the early 20th Century revolutions that were effective. The USSR, he holds up Lenin as a good example all the time, but disdains the USSR, why? Because it lasted long enough to be close to him.
Mao? Far enough away that Zizek sometimes mentions him approvingly, but close enough that Zizek adopts a guarded and conservative posture.
Literally anything happening now? He skews from Conservative to full on reactionary. His shit about muh immigrants was reactionary garbage.

Zizek has to worry about important things. Like his deal with Netflix falling through. Wouldn't want to risk business.

In fairness, I think that his anti-immigration stance was founded upon the notion that stemming immigration would weaken global capitalism.

Honestly hate this kind of ad hominem.
It's basically the mentality of Holla Forums par excellence. And honestly, how mad he makes liberals and tankies alike makes me think he's far more politically incorrect than anyone can even comprehend.

Yes, that's why the entire bourgie left rejects it. Get your head out of your snatch.

Well, I advise all sensible leftists to listen to him. Let's let the anarkiddies and fashies destroy each other, how about?

I'm not criticizing him for "criticizing me", whatever that means.

I'm criticizing him by using today's politically correct standards, IE those in Capitalist power, in order to suggest what he otherwise defends in the farther past but not today, are correct. While today is not correct.

Sure, largely, the riots have been, inefficient.

But what exactly does Zizek hope to see? Military trained revolutionaries? Isn't going to happen.

But instead of actually clarifying his contradicting position, he full on points it out himself, invoking liberal notions of peaceful protest in such a way where he seems more than he is. He isn't.

He's a liberal documentary star with a Netflix contract worried about his income

What the "bougie left" does is not necessarily indicative of being wrong, in this case,

Zizek is the bougie left

...

Being a feminist does not make one bougie, as it does not equate income level. I am surely less affluent than Zizek is, after all, I do not have a partnership with Netflix to have them pay me for the rights to be well reviewed documentary about film.

You're missing the point of what the ad hominem means. I'm not saying you in particular. You're not special.

See, this is where you misunderstand and probably only get surface level Žižek. He says explicitly that you're never going to get organized riots, that it's not feasible to just raise consciousness a little and their impotent violence will be justified! No, he says that it's always going to be chaos.

Nothing about what Žižek is saying is peaceful. To put a stop to the everyday business of the state apparatus, to walk up to them, occupy so much, say you can't do this, is really, really violent in itself.

lacan.com/zizrobes.htm

What did he mean by this?

He has made clear this is not what he wants on numerous occasions. As a matter of immediate policy, he supports using social democratic and market socialist reforms as a rallying cry to generate broad support for the left and generate concrete support among the working class.

wew

this is also not what I was implying. only that feminism is widely supported by the ruling class. should we not question why?

No I'm not.

I am perfectly understanding of his position. I am pointing out it is liberal fucking nonsense.

Interesting.

As I've said, he is a liberal, he is safe, he is supportive of positions that otherwise fall in today's political norm.

Okay whatever you say.

Class is determined by income. How is Zizek not upper class? He gets payed for lectures rather generously, unlike other communist theorists, and just as well, has a contract with Netflix.

You are suggesting he is not liberal. But the answer is in front of your face.

Being the kind of feminist you are does. The opinions you hold make a deviationist, not your income.

If you want to see real class conscious feminism, I recommend the video about the early Chinese revolution posted in another thread the other day.

I didn't know Lenin was an advocate for nonviolent resistance.

Interesting. So my ideas make me less bougie than Zizek, and his soulless cash grabbing makes him a successful communist who believes what he says.

*more or less bougie than Zizek

Hoochie Minh absolutely SEETHING

What? His stance on the refugee crisis was aligning 100% with the liberal media. He only said "we should help them even when they are bad people and stop romantisizing them out of white guilt".

NOW THIS IS IDEALISM

He's less of a liberal than you.

As Zizek says in literally his latest talk (youtube.com/watch?v=08cNrNCAJkk): Hitler's rise to power was the inevitable consequence of working class failure. Every reactionary offensive is a response to the failure of the working class to offer a proper programme, and not the failure of enough LARPing. Workers were betrayed by the SPD, smitten out of the defeated KPD, coerced by Hindenburg, etc.; the rise of Hitler was an inevitability. Hitler himself on his own condition as proving what could have stopped Hitler is bullshit. Hitler was welcomed with open arms by a turned-reactionary proletariat, a state happy to merge with corporations, etc. Fascism is the consequence of historical failure to organize, not to LARP.

Great argument. Truly gave me conniptions there.

Idiots: jacobinmag.com/2011/05/the-jacobin-spirit/.

To repeat the user before you:
wew

So is getting paid by Netflix to be a revolutionary

This will never cease to make me chortle.

Yes. Lenin wasn't less of a Lenninist because he exploited his serfs at some point. These are all just tactical deviations, not ideological ones like yours.

What form of actually existing political correctness are you referring to? The one that bans people for "ableism," shames and stalks people IRL and online, the ones that feel encouraged to inject their idpol aggressively into every non-related movement, the one that started punching people?

Zizek here proves to be a consistent enemy of political correctness and idpol.

This.

JUST THINK FOR A GODDAMN SECOND AND LEARN FROM THE LESSON OF THE ALT-RIGHT

What did they achieve? New facebook groups, a declining reddit board, Holla Forums and a "God emperor" that is a laughing stock of the world, destroying the alt-right just as we speak.

Learn from their mistakes: what is leading to their decline? They had zero political theory, no new approaches to organization, zero critical thought. We first need to develop these weapons, and this means studying and writing political theory, creation of a counter-ideology and counter-culture, participating in intellectual debates, etc. to be able to face the new political and economic environment.

If you follow blindly the smashie idiots you are the enemy of communist reawakening.

he's spread more class conscious than you ever have.

...

He spreads more money than both of us ever will.

Oh honey

lol just by itself

Tell me again how advocating for terrorism is poltically correct?

Nationalism.

stay mad

No, it really fucking isn't.

INFANTILE DISORDER

wut

That's the bourgeois notion of class which has value in a social analysis. I'd say class it's your relationship to the MoP, though.

jej.

And you forget the most important part: he refused to frame the crisis as purely humanitarian. That it was the play of global capital, and the western alliance with Saudi Arabia that should be heavily scrutinized, and also that countries like SA, Dubai, Emirates, etc. should be coerced into themselves accepting refugees too.

Stay, pseudo-activists.

Any other class analysis is liberal entirely. There comes a point where you are not more than you are.

You are defending a man watched by Netflix liberals the world over. I don't think he's necessarily a great communist thinker. Why would he be.

He is more paid than other more thorough communist thinkers.

Explain it.

Not an argument.

It's the one promoted by all communist thought, more or less. I don't know where you've come, where income and quoting Gandhi for means of making things "more peaceful", aren't sending alarms in your head

But I wouldn't want to be where that is, anyways.

Like pottery.

This is why lurking this place is ultimately worth it.

So Zizek aims to be an "activist" now?

Guess Marx was a liberal then lol POLITICALLY CORRECT

There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. Just as there is no ethical working class under capitalism. He has found a way to make money and he's good at it. I am not jealous about that. I don't know why I would be when he provides me with analysis potent enough to make you scream.

...

...

marxists.org/glossary/terms/c/l.htm

I'm glad you have a trip. It would be unbearable to fathom that I'd risk giving you more (You)s in the future by accident.

Anyone who takes Marx by himself without criticism is somewhat a liberal, but that's neither here nor there.

Zizek is far from Marx, I think it is entirely appropriate to call him a politically correct liberal thinker, at this point.

You are trying to defend by criticism that he is more buzzed and paid than other more thorough thinkers. More well known, for saying far less.

You probably already have, I just put it on to say what I need to.

...

No. It really isn't. You either own the means of production or you don't. You either live off the surplus value generated from the masses or you don't. The bourgeois notion of class is simply slapping arbitrary points on the income scale which doesn't really describe the nature of capitalism.

Zizekian analysis par excellence

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...

Zizek seems to own the means to push the licensing agreement to The Pervert's Guide to Ideology further and further until he managed to get on Netflix

I think it's appropriate here to say that Zizek is a liberal who says things to liberals who otherwise do not understand larger left thought, applied to film. Which is, in itself, hilariously liberal. But I suppose that's the point.

Zizek being harassed by two upper class feminists for making more by shilling for Netflix

The class struggle has not only an economic form and a political form but also a theoretical form. Or, if you prefer: the same class struggle exists and must therefore be fought out by the proletariat in the economic field, in the political field and in the theoretical field, always under the leadership of its party. When it is fought out in the theoretical field, the concentrated class struggle is called philosophy.

Now some people will say that all this is nothing but words. But that is not true. These words are weapons in the class struggle in the field of theory, and since this is part of the class struggle as a whole, and since the highest form of the class struggle is the political class struggle, it follows that these words which are used in philosophy are weapons in the political struggle.

Lenin wrote that "politics is economics in a concentrated form". We can say: philosophy is, in the last instance, the theoretical concentrate of politics. This is a "schematic" formula. No matter! It expresses its meaning quite well, and briefly.

Everything that happens in philosophy has, in the last instance, not only political consequences in theory, but also political consequences in politics : in the political class struggle.

...

You are saying less than he is. You honestly just sound like a Holla Forumsyp even if you don't mean to be. And this is precisely what I meant by my earlier post, that you think just because he's "politically correct" he is somehow wrong, which is why it's an ad hominem. Still, however, you've failed to show me exactly where he's being politically correct. If anything, the advocation for just merely "acting out" for just being aggro whenever you are opposed and don't exactly get your way is more politcally correct than ever. It's not resistance to show your impotence. To act out like so, in the grip of one's unconscious wishes and phantasies, relives these in the present with a sensation of immediacy which is heightened by one's refusal to recognise their source and their repetitive character, rather than actually providing a solution.

tl;dr read Lacan

Maybe he does or maybe the production or distribution company do. I have no idea. Honestly I think Zizek says dumb shit all the time. I'm just pointing out that income level has never been the communist definition of class.

Marx said it so all communists probably agree with it unquestioningly without criticism

Not even Zizek stands to your level of scrutiny, but Zizek and scrutiny are never good bed fellows.

I don't see how it's not appropriate to the argument

Pictured: Anfem being saved from the leftypol hordes by a progressive businessman

They aren't retarded they are COINTELPRO to get us to never do anything to counter the the state and capitalism,it's always fucking read this read that,never any revolutionary activity

That's an insult considering how much of an armchair he is.

But your criticism is far less than mine. After all, I don't see why it is necessary to defend him, yourself, or anyone from criticism like this other than a sense of sentimentality for his work.

Pictured: user upset that Zizek is not being treated like the hairy golden baby of Leftypol you cannot critique

Capitalism is out of room to grow, and as a result the consumer class that capitalism relies upon to maintain production rates is evaporating thus putting the global economy into an inescapable death spiral. Workers are unable to shoulder any more debt or work any harder which means that capitalism is finally nearing its carrying capacity. As that happens, the spectacles that had kept the workers pacified and divided is becoming less compelling thus leading to radicalization. While the reactionary movement initially offered an outlet to the angry and the suffering it can offer no solutions and, as we shall see in the near future, can do nothing to aleviate the suffering of the workers. Only socialism can provide the necessary increase in the carrying capacity of global society.

That is why they are declining.

I think at this point, income level is far more relevant than it was in the past, simply because of the dividing lines for it, as many people earn less and less, and those who don't aren't losing value for a reason.

Okay, I admit, I do feel sentimental towards him. But he's not wrong here. Random acts of violence do nothing for one's cause. We can kill all the porkies today, but that doesn't mean the system wouldn't still be in place, that doesn't mean that more won't be enabled to become greedy pork.

...

True, but he also is against any acts of violence whatsoever. I don't agree with that. I doubt many people he supports of the past would either.

Okay buddy.

OMG
No he's not! Stop strawmanning this.

Just read the gotdamn link I posted:
lacan.com/zizrobes.htm

I'm not seeing Zizek come up with many well thought alternatives to this also, which is why he falls under the bar. It's fairly easy to do so, he's just a cultural critic, as many here have pointed out.

Thomas Piketty says hi btw

It is critique because Marx's interpretation does not meet with today's reality to even be appropriate to Marx., you have to interpret Marx, even a fool knows as such. A fool like Zizek.

That's when you know the world really has gone to shit tbh.

applying 19th century class theory to the present is like applying feudal class theory to the 19th century circumstances

Yes, we know: you're blind or good at selective reading.

Speaking of
isn't this the part where you're supposed to add the term "deep state" into every paragraph you write at least once?

Even Zizek tells you to interpret Marx. So you don't listen to Zizek, while defending Zizek.

Guess we can't use wheels anymore because that's an invention of primitive man.

SMH

Considering this thread, we would both have to fall under this line

Capital still exists moron and so do capitalists. You don't think Bill Gates got rich off labor, do you?

Link me even one fucking Marxist that interprets class as anything different but relation to the means of production.

Zizek

Today, that is the case more than it ever was in the past.

WEW

...

That's not a link, and Zizek is a Marxist, hence he acknowledges class is the product of relaiton to production.

Please start an IRC one.

>Zizek's critique of LARP violence signifies an opposition to all violence
Ｗ　Ｅ　Ｗ

kek. This WEBM is the perfect BTFO.

Like I said I think bourgeois class distinction has value in a social analysis because it does help define certain qualitative differences amongst the proletariat. But I wouldn't discard the Marxist definition either. It's defining the material distinction between the small set of people who have minority control over our society and the rest of us.

Interesting that he criticzes lack of rigor when he himself said you have to interpret Marx to fit to today's standards.

Which again, is one of the things I happen to agree with him on.

I don't care if it is or isn't. You should be able to link Zizek's work, being a fan of it.

And yet you've never read Marx.

It is precisely as a fan of Zizek that I can tell you that he adheres to the Marxist definition of class: relation to production.

Are you gonna link me that super rare, mint edition of Zizek saying otherwise now, or are you going to keep replying and further burying yourself in your autistic illiteracy?

kek btfo

good luck with trying to find out how many oxen walk in a car engine

income, and the social realities that come with it, no longer having a near direct relation with capital ownership renders using capital ownership as the sole tool of class analysis dogmatic backwardness

Zizek has been much the pacifist in not just this, while supporting other violence that he contradictingly thinks is valuable. Violence in past revolution. It's bizarre and suspect.

Neither would I, but it doesn't help the fact class lines are more and more being divided up into income levels going into the future.

I have. But Marx is not all encompassing of communist thought, Marx is where to begin. I don't know why you're even debating me on this.

Too bad he's never going to do anything about it.

This is not synonymous with abandoning concepts for the sake of it as if it's [CURRENT YEAR].

Are you a literal mongoloid? Got some Uralic genes left in you from the Nam?

Yes, because it's the wheels that are preventing you from doing that.

Neither is what I'm doing, but you attempting to read more into what I'm saying without being offended again, is neither here nor there.

Let's say that I agree with your assessment of the economy. But you don't have the same focus as I: political struggle. See:

In other words we can (and must) analyse politics on different levels. To understand Trump (or Brexit, or…) we need to focus on the political as well. What these phenomena amounted to were political valves for letting off steam – steam that was generated partially by the economic processes you described.

But for us to build a lasting political front we must not limit ourselves to the economic aspect (let alone trust in the teleological coming of socialism ["Only socialism can provide the necessary increase in the carrying capacity of global society."] – maybe it will come, maybe it won't. As we've seen with Keynesianism there are multiple ways to satiate the masses.)

What we need is not to construct another political valve that goes off rapidly, but a lasting movement that continually re-channels the energy of the people. The alt-right's decline is (was) politically contingent. The same with Hitler, really. He didn't solve jack shit economically speaking, but found political methods.

that's not true at all. he supported the arab spring revolution in egypt and then occupy. all of which had to a degree some violence.

further, he constantly defends the riots and similar outbreaks.

Kek.

I just love how this thread has managed to degenerate to this level.

This isn't a debate. Literally all you do is provoke in circles, responding to obvious troll posts. And it's painfully clear to most that you've understood nothing of whatever you've read.

Everytime you turn up, the user count for this board plummets. It's no surprise why.

I know, Zizek is great at supporting contemporary action which goes nowhere.

That's not true. He chose Trump over Hillary.

One, that's false. Capital ownership has a direct relation on wealth. Two, the managerial class and petit bourg existed 100 years ago too.

You're right, it isn't.

It's painfully clear to me that you don't have valid analysis of class. I'm criticizing the Ivory Tower Intellectual level of Zizek, that many here would otherwise criticize at any given time if it was not Zizek.

you're literally contradicting yourself now

Stop giving her the (you)

This.

The mean lady needs to read a book.

Specifically this one.

cnqzu.com/library/Economics/zizek/Zizek, Slavoj-In Defense of Lost Causes.pdf

I rarely pay attention to what Zizek says because it's largely contradictory, so I'm hesistant to start, particularly when a group of contradictory ideologues push him.

I saw his documentary that got on Netflix and that's about as far as I'll go, his written work seems to be garbage.

why are namefags even allowed? it's just personal branding, that is to say, cultural capitalism

You're not. You know you're not. Nobody here can work out why you aren't banned. Probably because banning you means putting a foot down.

I'm making money off your labor

I am.

Hm, disagree

This is a great criticism of what I'm saying.

shill-tier

Wow I've taken the leftcom pill and now I can see the very fabric of the universe… it's- it's- it's armchairs! Millions of armchairs! At last I truly see!

We've noticed. You don't need to tell us this.

I'm glad that's the only medium you dare expose yourself to, and twice as happy to know you're a classcuck that not only doesn't pirate, but ultimately made Zizek some money on the side too. Stay assblasted, kek.

lol, and you say he's contradictory

Considering

A) He's contrarian
B) I can listen to his lectures, which more or less should reflect his work
C) I can read his articles
D) His written work consists of such classics as "Living in the End Times"

I don't think I have to read "Living in the End Times" to understand where he's coming from, other than being a public intellectual salesman

petit bourg are a negation that admits the fault in the axiom as one-dimensional. it is not ownership itself that defines class in any actual sense, any sense that is not a form of diction

The revolution will be snuggly, user~

Nostalgia mostly.

Not reading is not the same as not listening. Is his spoken word much different than his written?

I'm hesitant to buy his written work

because Zizek's publishing history is shlock crap

Yes, and we'll build up a revolutionary party without ever having to leave the armchair.

I also pirated it don't worry.

Yes, Marx would take the fucking bourgeois class and himself invent a term for the petty bourgeoisie: highly competitive proletarians who aspire bourgeois class status, as to contradict his own dichotomy, and Marx totally didn't think about this. Amazing.

Protip: petite bourgeoisie is not a fucking class. Marx himself says this. Read him!

My Gott! 2015 leftypolism ended. We need to *sniff* we need to *snort* reinvent leftypol for the 2017th century, I claim.

Says the woman who never read any of his book and is judging them by their titles.

Pssht, she's an expert on many topics.

I think I'll judge "Living in the End Times" by its cover

Or, is judging a book by its cover, wrong? :v)

His point about Gandhi and Hitler is actually very cool if you get what he means, but then I have no idea what the fuck he's talking about when he says progressives should be the polite ones or whatever.

I am an expert on what is and is not worth the effort to read in terms of knowledge on a subject.

Zizek would hardly say anything new really. I mean something titled "Living in the End Times" or "The Sublime Object of Ideology", is really what exactly it suggests it is. I have given Living in the End Times a bit of a peak.

I couldn't get myself to actually commit to it.

...

You always sperg out when you get judged by your cover, and you even provoke it

He says this because progressives have unlearned how to be polite.

youtube.com/watch?v=RzA4dCT4X0I

his defence of violence is in this book.

Calling Zizek's publishing history a critique is pushing it hard. His articles are far better written and far better edited than his actual books.

Really makes you think

Zizek can't make heads or tails of violence to begin with. For multiple outside reasons I'm presuming.

That Living in the End Times is shock

Political capital IS violence fam

*schlock

all the more violent, all the better fam

we, the enemy, we the enemy, traitor

a very real class

Punching a marginal figure is LARPing. Go out to Standing Rock and risk being killed by private security for the common good if you want to be a real revolutionary.

- t. self-admittedly only ever watched a single movie

What's happening over there right now? We haven't had a thread on it in ages.

Source on this webm? It's incredibly disgusting

No clue. It was in Freudposter's WEBM collection torrent. I think Leninhat ITT is him, so maybe he can chime in on the source?

I read his articles, I wasn't considering his articles or lectures to be among body of work. I consider his body of work to be, well, his body of work.

His documentaries and his books. These should come first and be precise, not second.

goddammit, Holla Forums

youtube.com/watch?v=riT848W3kvY
in b4 TYT, it's a super comfy interview with someone becoming a radical environmentalist over the years

or

Which one will it be? Coming undone or are you an actual, legitimate mongoloid?

Can you judge this book too?
Keep in mind it was written by a man as well.

He starts the preface by quoting Mark Twain on why the violence the masses
do against the system is never worse that the violence the system does against them.How about you fucking read the book
before you say anything. Judging by Title is literal kindergarten tier.

They're not progressives though.

Well, considering from the top I said "I rarely pay attention to what Zizek says", that suggests what I meant.

He's right. The power of non-violence is that it gets people on your team.

The right is calling for the legitimization of age old obscene enjoyments, with their usual intentionally dubious rhetorical tactics and their impotent outrage. Zizek notes that how, interestingly, the cursing and antagonizing mentality of the 60-80's hippies are gone and the right-wing is that is reclaiming it. He sees this as a political opportunity to use new rhetoric strategies: the calm, and polite revolutionary that offers the only viable alternative to capitalism.

A lot of people are put off by the lumpen anarcho-smashies, and the rude conspiracy-theory right wingers.

It's just a suggestion, nothing more. If you are ever to write a political speech, think about it as an option.

The way I see it: I've been a passive observer of many rallies, and had seen liberals using big revolutionary rhetoric and "scandalous" iconoclasm. Talking about what needs to be done (literal, bloody revolution) calmly, I believe, would have a shocking effect, and other people who usually passively observe with a good amount of skepticism, knowing very well the age old formula of decrying the tyrants [and then nothing happens] might take notice.

Yes, it's far better than Zizek. One is actually coherent and able to be read.

They are pretending to be at least, and so people will try to put them on the left.

There is nothing shameful about having dyslexia, so just come out of the closet!

Tell that to Zizek before he tried to write more fiction novels.

Literally champagne socialism

dayum

The Crumb documentary, and yes, it is disgusting (tho funny). One thing: their marriage was built upon these eerie forms of jouissance. I mean, come on, she clearly enjoys being the dominant one in their relationship, and Crumb's puny attempt to dethrone her is childishly sadistic.

damage control
damage control
damage control
damage control
damage control

I see, thanks for clarifying.

My problem with it would probably be the fact that it's things like Trump's complete lack of politeness and calmness that got him into power. Hilary was the 'calm' 'professional' 'play by the rules' candidate and that's partly what fucked her, besides her contempt for poor people.

I feel like being the polite calm ones has two main problems - one, it means we're playing along with the rules of the ruling class. We're acting like good little boys who dont want to make anyone upset, and even if we do this people are still going to hate us.

Secondly it dosnt do well to shake the rampant PC culture that the left has to work to get rid of either. I'm not saying we need to act like Trump and genuinely offend people, but we need to act like human beings as well.

As for punching Richard Spencer in particular I dont really think it makes a different in the grand scheme of things. I keep hearing about how it 'legitimizes' the right but, never really how. If someone could explain that I'd probably be willing to condemn random out bursts of violence like that, otherwise it dosnt really matter and it just a bit of fun, or if anything brings more attention and possibly liberals to our cause.

Zizek would defend me for it if I didn't.

That's what makes it so gross. I can't stand anything that isn't alienated anymore.

You're a tankie, you're self admittedly, a cover and nothing more.

This is a piece by a right-winger with a lot of the usual dumb axes to grind (like fearmongering about the need to take drastic measures to stop terrorists from killing 0.00001% of the number of people who die in car accidents every year), but it makes a good point about the stupidity of violence as "symbolic drama" rather than anything strategic, and how this has caught on with a lot of people on the left:

hoover.org/research/al-qaedas-fantasy-ideology

stop giving it (you)'s

what's the network/channel for this?

Like any good revolutionary, he is ready to use any tool available to him: youtube.com/watch?v=mGC3uJadXh0

Can we just making punching nazis a meme like sharking or some shit?

I see your point and I generally disagree with your assessment.

Think about the daily news, the hit pieces, the memes, the general tone of the superstructure. Over-exaggeration, false-scandals, (impotent) violence, is the new norm, at the price of political substance.

You brought up Hillary, I counter with Bernie (his reformism is another, legit commie topic). He clearly stood out from the scandals. Remember his "forget about the damn e-mails" – he gets the claps from Hillary, but damn, that was the real political punch.

I guess we disagree on their character as well? See:

No, but just look at this thread. Look at the broader state of the "left" in America. It is fucking inane, but we have to have these discussions, because it is our reality.

I don't think it does that, I think what it does legitimize reinforce is the public's view of them as the true opposition (pic related).

Fuck fun, it's time for political thought.

10 per fucking 10

Why. What's the political effect of that? That Holla Forums keeps us identified with idpol liberals? That we maintain the "le everything is fascism" meme? That we keep up the charade that these people are somehow political enemies?

Zizek actually used the words 'alt-right'?

He's not following his own advice of not giving them recognition.

reddit.com/r/zizek/comments/5qiyen/is_it_ok_to_punch_a_nazi_philosopher_slavoj_žižek/

lmao

We critics now.

I love Zizek but he is wrong here.

Zizek is an old guy, he's out of touch with youth culture and internet culture. Have you ever thought of how many neo-nazis there are? Holla Forums, stormfront, other alt-right communities are crawling with them. In real life, they hide their 'power levels'. The disparity between the virtual and real movement is insane. The day they don't get beaten up on the streets and met by antifa crowds 4 times as big, they will organize and meet up and rally in real life much more often.

Support your local antifa.

STOP YOUR AGEISM!

Holla Forums on half-chan is just "ironically" neo-nazi. Most of them aren't even white ffs.

neo-nazi's

ON THE INTERNET!

I'm literally shaking.

Fucking kek.

Ideology works the same way, regardless of age. I'd personally much much much more prefer to participate in sane and calm discussions with the people liberals label as "fascists."

That's a challenge that antifas are not willing to take, exactly because their very faux-political status depends on this spooky enemy, and vica versa! See:

What's the alt-right, really? Not just the disenfranchised and futureless youth, but workers, the unemployed, people who are scared.

Organizing discussions with them, agitating amongst them, helping them understand their predicament, is much more of a revolutionary act now than ever.

Ofc I'm not talking about their leaders, the Spencers and Milapopokulouses. Take the same Zizekian formula about them balls: we win if they go on believing that they have the crowd behind them, while in reality we have won them over.

Top kek we have our very own blogger!
reddit.com/r/Drama/comments/5qj0tg/sniffing_marxist_philosopher_zizek_rejects/
Kindly stop peddling our electronic meeting place to autistic liberals, good sir.

>proceeds to upvote everything

yeah, and not beating them up would increase their real life activity

Hello reddit! Please, take back your r/soc refugees. They drive me fucking mad.

>>proceeds to get shadowbanned for following reddit links from Holla Forums

I will use this against many. But also once society starts to excuse violent actions "because reasons" then the slippery slope uses the boost to get through.

You forget about the systemic violence that is the soul of the capitalist machinery.

literally let the oppressors exterminate us into exhaustion and self reflection like the british did to india.

Only in india the masses were being exterminated. We only have each other and libs and right tards are gonna say, "wew violence even against oppressors is bad."

Zizek confirmed for cia plant

Sardonic_Deity should get hanged

They have really low standards of what is considered drama. They could post every second Holla Forums thread there.

"Slippery slope" is the name of a logical fallacy.

Indeed.

Haha looks like he's a bit of a lolcow himself.

Zizek is right though. Punching Spencer just made the left look foolish. Beat him in a debate if you want to win some hearts and minds.

Oh my dayz

You have been banned from participating in r/socialism

sympathetic to literally throwing counterrevolutionaries against the wall but turning to trump because someone punched a nazi

polfags are gross

lol, what a hypocritical moron
I unironically advocate sending this wishy washy liberal to the gallows now, thanks Sargon

The problem with violent revolution, as Camus pointed out, is that revolutionaries either end up a tyrant or a heretic.

msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/research/furr_katyn_preprint_0813.pdf

for you and a few of your friends maybe
but it's turning normies away

i mean sure you anarkiddies might make good thugs and secret police agents one day (which i wager is what most of you actually want)

but right now you are working without plan
and if you keep at it we will have no ounce of support

Punching a nazi is going to drain far less normie support than waving around the hammer and sickle.

Why should anyone care about normies? We are not democrats

Does anyone actually have any proof of this? Can we use twitter magic or some shit to prove it? Actually settling this with some autism and data would save us all a lot of time.

The dictatorship of the proletariat should by tyrannical towards the bourgeoisie, and herecy has always been a cool trait of the left.

Because they are the majority of the people? Are you going to say something like

not punching nazis is widely supported by the ruling class, should we not question why?

as well, the type of feminism your talking about is bourgie feminism.

LEL
E
L

Have we ever had a smart Leninist here? It's basically the board dunce hat.

Never change bourg socialists never change

Hope Muke is safe. Take care, Muke.

Sardonic_Deity go back to reddit and stay there

You are comfortable in capitalism by making this post.

You have think a couple of steps ahead to understand why uncoordinated violence is bad for the left wing cause.

Punching Richard Spencer isn't the problem, normalizing and glorifying political violence is, because it's going to lead to some leftist punching a conservative christian in the face for being opposed to gay marriage. When that happens the left is well and truly fucked because they have now turned most of working class against them and most minorities as well (hint: blacks and hispancis are not pro gay rights). They have also legitimized violence as tactic against political opponents and when the conservatives come for the left they are not going to LARPing it up, people are going to be dragged from their home and beaten to death and nobody is going to lift a finger to help because the left are seen as violent thugs who attack innocent people.

So um good luck with your punching campaign.

LMAO what a shit post

Are we supposed to buy this shit? I'm not even particularly violent, but acting like a light punch on a mouthpiece for ethnic cleansing is the first normalization in "political violence" in the West since like the Holocaust or something is incredibly ignorant.
Blacks and minorities may or may not care about gay rights–but they sure as fuck don't care for the current system.

"Punching people for having a bad opinion is NOT OKAY" but dragging them from their homes and killing them in my nazi masturbation fantasy definitely is"

get zizeks dick out of your mouth and get on the street you fool

i dont want you all to change or become the vanguard because all you will inspire is socdem and minimal market reforms. don't change so that we may gulag you easily.

also retard trips

Shows minorities we will not stand for this shit. by being the vanguard of not putting up with ethnocleansing we may better unite them to our cause.

You have absolutely nothing to say.

Do you also blame the working class for having wages in capitalism? Is that too comfortable, because they have nothing else to get by on? Again, I can't fault these people just because of what they decide to do for a living. I can fault the class system, but not the agents.

cool

no you fucking retard. zizek flirts with the system and actively discourages toppling it through his impotent contradictory intellectualism which you bourgy socs masturbate too

He is a cultural critic at best and a plant at worst

everyone i dont like is a redditor wah

...

That's not at all what I said. There you go again with the strawmen. You are boring. And truthfully, boredom is the real comfort of capitalism, inspiring no change, just impotent rage in all random directions, making accusations of contradiction, yet providing no substantial evidence thereof.

Absolutely, people on the left in the US are praising violence like never before, it's just a matter of time before they target the wrong person.

I didn't say it was okay. It's also not a fantasy since this happened in Georgia in 2013 when left-wing activist punched a priest, I should know I was in Tbilisi at the time.

Making people believe you are violent animals is just going to be used to justify violence against you.

And like I said. If you think Žižek's problem is 'flirting with the system' then you might as well blame the entire working class for participating in capitalism.

Adhoms are fine, typing like a faggot and giving blatant signs of being from reddit is not.

So, um, y'know… I guess you can type like this and get called out for it all the time? I guess…

Zizek generally advocates for people to just come up with new theory rather than take action. As if the left's problem is too much action and too little theory.

in truth, i think your sentimentality prevents you from actually critiquing zizek.

he is not my com and never will be

partly because i don't see him inspiring change apart from letting vice reading fake socialists not feel bad about doing nothing but engaging in mental masturbation

the point of smacking a nazi isn't to topple capitalism but to signal that he is not a com and will not be tolerated precisely because of his ethnonationalism

if one is punching nazis and reading theory and organizing to topple capitalism then they are alright in my book.

turning your back away from racists spouting racist shit signals to those that will be affected by racist shit that what they are saying is ok. That they have no ally in the left, only in neoliberalism.

Okay.

...

That's literally the content of the replies here. Zizek says that maybe LARP on LARP smashie autism is counter-productive, the counter-argument is "lol netflix he's bourg xd".

...

Learn to format your posts. You're making no sense at all.

Or go back to reddit.

I totally agree. This more-socialist-than-thou attitude is repulsive.

Punching a nazi may signal that he is not a communist. But it also doesn't signal that you are a communist. Let's not forget the US' part in WWII.

>>>/SRS/

Honestly would rather they just straight up call me bourgeoisie than bourg socialist. It doesn't really make sense.

learn to fucking read chans
also nice spacing faggot

punching a nazi in the name of nationalism and punching a nazi because he is a racist are not the same.

i am concerned with signaling that communists will punch nazis not that punching a nazi is inherently opposed to capitalism.

It doesn't matter the 'why?' (we already know) I am not trying to ideologically justify or condemn the assailant.
Cf:

What matters is the 'how,' and what will happen afterwards. For me, punching Spencer hasn't put any end to racism.

how will pretending he doesn't exist put an end to racism?

Something about not alienating the population because you give them attention by hitting them.
Which if you were a Brit instead of a burger you would know is a huge fucking pack of lies. The media loves people who say outrageous shit and will peddle them until the end of time.

minorities are happy about the punch. the only people who i see wringing their hands about it are liberals. communists punching nazis and liberals being silent or angry about it is very potent in aligning minorities to our cause.

at the end of the day capitalists don't care about muh race. white people are not the majority and schemes to be global and welcome immigrants are capitalists preemptively widening their markets and labor base

we cant idly stand by while they put a monopoly on antiracism

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_ignoring

Of course, I think holding an actual conversation with someone might be better, that way one can learn something of their opponent. But then again it might not work. One is very worried about the state of affairs right now. Holla Forums didn't even like Spencer, accusing him of being a false-flag, until he got hit. It is their fear that has made them sympathize, and grow more close-knit so to speak.

do white people identify with nazis?

Please do not reply to random posts with unrelated questions.

Some white people do, but not in general fuck no.

lel
communism overrides this dichotomy
in truth, we should be purging minorities (i.e. the bourgeoisie)

i can agree that punching a nazi is not punching institutionalized racism. we need a more nuanced response but tactical ignoring and invoking gandhi is not that. why? because those who can afford to ignore will eventually just see it as a non concern.

i am not worried about trying to get pol to sympathize with us. pol is still fringe even to the vast majority of trump voters.

when capitalism is working for whites they see it as evidence of the natural hierarchy. their primary concern is idpol and will always be.

this this this THIS. i cant ever get trumpcucks to see this. how do you open their eyes?

we are not in communism
nonresponse

If we are not in communism and you wanna help minorities then go suck on a bourg my fellow poster.

show them how something like the wall will disproportionately affect them.
-raising the cost of cheap food products making them unaffordable
-trump is not telling them that the wall will at first be paid for through muh taxes
-use the language of capitalism against itself: trump like no bid contracts, stifling competition.

well color me surprised

That's the whole point of tactical ignoring. Ostracism, dude. If the man does not have a platform to speak to, then the only concern comes from himself.

k

Who's the wrong person, in your eyes? It sounds like you're angry this guy in particular is being memed on. You don't think he deserves it?

I don't think it will shock any lefty that we can't depend on the state or any institution to defend us.

...

lets just be clear nazis deserve more than punches anyways.

if we can align nazis with trumps nativism while also differentiating ourselves from muh globalism liberals we're good

and thats what were doing. the only ones concerned are liberals. this makes liberals look bad.

also americans hate nazis and seeing one punched might just rile up their deflated, impotent cocks again

Look, i don't understand the "NO WE SHOULD KILL ALL NAZIS" reaction from Holla Forums.

It's not that i don't understand the feeling, it's that i don't understand why -you guys- are concerned about this.
I don't see you in the streets punching alt-right shitheads and neo nazis.
I don't see you arming yourselves and those you love and telling them that the time for discussion and exchange of ideas is over and we should cleanse the world from these tumors.

I'm not condemning at all that way of thinking, i'd actively encourage it, even.
It's just that all i see you guys do all day is talk.
You all talk about wonderful things all day and present books and other interesting material to read, but ultimately there's no real action going on here.

No one here is gonna kill a nazi or an alt-right shithead.
Ever.
I don't mean this as an insult, but this board is basically a bunch of nerds sitting in a virtual bar discussing politics with each other while drinking tea and eating crumpets.
Even the guys going "i'm totally gonna fuck them up guys", no you aren't, you just gonna keep posting here and nothing more will happen.

So this guy goes "we should approach this in a non-violent manner", so what?
That's what you're all already doing, so you might as well, what's the point in getting pissed?

The wrong person is somebody who a majority of people consider innocent. In the case of the US it's probably going to be some evangelical christian woman who gets an anti-fa fist to the face on national television that sets people off.

I'm angry at the exposure the assault got and at the gleefulness with which the assault was received. Retards leftist are going to think they are justified in attacking anyone they consider "fascist" because of it, that means anyone from card carrying NSDAP members to religious people are liable to be randomly assaulted.

Anything that happens to him deserves to be ignored because he is insignificant.

Talking about mob violence not state violence.

Look, I totally agree. We don't need to go into detail here. But I think just punching single jerks isn't gonna cut it. Again, I have to stress how conversation can be helpful here, if not to convince someone (maybe it might bring others outside the conversation to one's side, who knows), then at least to know your enemy when they come out in hives, when the real shit hits the fan.

Because going outside and shooting some random Nazi isn't going to do shit.
It is also not easy to kill anyone of substance either, and just killing one is not enough too.

reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/5qk176/lets_get_one_thing_straight_about_nazis/

/r/LateStageCapitalism mods have made a sticky about punching Nazis in the face. I'm banned from that sub so I can't reply, but he thinks his prescription (face punching) follows from his argument, but it doesn't.

Face punching is not a well thought out strategy of defeating fascism.

As one poster above pointed out, communists battled with fascists on the streets constantly when they first appeared in Germany. It did not stop them. You all should rethink your strategy.

It's just part of the obsession of theory and praxis, it's not like anyone here can control antifa but they'll argue it to death anyway. I'm part of the enjoying Richard Spencer getting punched memes faction.

tbh, it would be funny if Spencer getting hit in the face just becomes a meme
then Holla Forums can't even blame us for it

Remember to never click a direct link to reddit if you want to keep a reddit account. Reddit has bots that will shadowban you if you arrive from an external site and vote on things.

Do you fully and completely reject mob violence?
Don't you think it would be cathartic for the frustrated masses?
Even empowering?

Don't you think in recent years the left has "softened" to the point of becoming powerless, unmotivated, weak, unable to react to this growing disease growing all around them?

It would be pretty funny seeing just how bizarre it sends everything if it keeps happening. Would Holla Forums lose their minds? Would Spencer still carry his views? How many angles of real life footage and images are there of him being punched by the end? Does it become the most iconic event of 2017? Would Trump personally back "Spencer's Law"? What would be in it?

I await in eager anticipation to find out the answer to these questions.

Absolutely, all violence needs to organized and directed from the center.

The left needs to swell their ranks by channeling economic populism and discontent with the global capitalist oligarchy. Fighting "fascist" in the streets didn't work in 1930's Germany and isn't going to work today, in fact it's only going to help them since violence, instability and fear is what drives people to reactionary political movements who promise a return to stability through the use of overwhelming violence.

I understand what you mean but i also can't accept it.
I don't think the current left will ever find unity and purpose, i think the average left leaning person will simply slump back into sad acceptance and defeatism.

...

The current left is a bunch whiny pissbabies more interested in LARPing the Comintern than real power.

Trump was the best thing that could have happened to the left, he will burn the common people on right wing populism and when their standard of living deteriorates they will turn to hard left ideologies.

The future left wing movement will not be lead by autistic people interested ideological fights that happened a century ago but by normal people who's goal is economic equality and these people will have the skills to appeal to a broad base.

I don't know if that will be the case, but it would indeed be the best possible outcome.
I hope you're right.

What if I told you that I'm not an altruist but an egalitarian? Even a quick google search (pic related) would correct you.

Altruism (thanks to Derpkins & co. popularizing the biological origin of ethics) is today mainly used in the context of evolution, at least online.

Egalitarianism is a political (consciously made) position, and does not rule out self-interest at all.

eat a dick

EAT A DICK

It isn't, hence why Zizkek didn't

Bookchin>Zizek

I tried googling this but couldn't find a source, care to tell where you got this from? I still hate leftcoms but you are making BTFOing the anarchists & Stalinists hard in this thread

Sure, whatever you say.

...

no thanks

HOLY SHIT. BOOKSHIT CONFIRMED DED.

If you think some random Christian woman is at risk of getting knocked out by "Antifa", you need to read up on what Antifa is actually about. I don't think you know what you're talking about.

We consider Richard Spencer a fascist because he is a self-professed fascist. He very publicly has written and spoken about, and otherwise advocated for, fascistic policies like ethnic cleansing of minorities and other forms of genocide. Equivocating him with random generic social conservatives, like your hypothetical Christian lady, is just being disingenuous.

I'm in literal tears. Okay, femanon. You are alright

Why can't we do everything we're supposed to do, but then also hit nazis just because we can?

/thread

You can do anything you want if the average citizen supports you, shares your political point of view, and sees your actions as righteous.
If you do whatever you want to do and punch people in the face, and the average citizen doesn't support, or understand why you're doing it, you're just going to be seen as a thug.
And thus the people you punched will develop sympathy for your victims.
And you'll become the villain, something to be protected from.

The only people who really have a problem with standing up to nazis, are nazis, and that's not the average citizen.

Richard Spencer is a guy who is in favor of "peaceful ethnic cleansing". How is punching him or other nazis more alienating than adopting symbols and ideology associated with a regime that normies believe killed gorgillions?

Aside from the fact that you're not punching Nazis, but LARPers, and that you're not being revolutionary by doing so, but instead nothing but a LARPer, you cannot be this delusional. The average individual cringes at and/or abhors random thuggery. How disconnected are you?

Take the hat off, kiddo

...

The label fascist is thrown around quite liberally in left wing circles, it's not uncommon to see trump voters (all 63 million of them) be called fascists and violence is often justified against social conservatives because of their opposition to gay and trans rights (the reason being that they just like nazis are trying murder a minority group).

So with this in mind, why wouldn't antifa punch Trump supporters and social conservatives?

I'm sure the average person isn't going to see a nazi and think "it's just some dumb larping kid", they're going to see a nazi. A lot of people hate nazis, not just us, normalfags do, a lot of racial minorities do. Not many people remember the second world war personally but there's still people who remember neo-nazis beating up or killing people around here. Nobody is going to care if you stand up to a nazi.
Are you and a nazi star crossed lovers or something?

I do this IRL, btw. One on one.
Here's an account of a recent failure:
I could give you stories of the few successes but that would mean that I take you seriously as a poster.

Anyway, to the post you are replying to: notice I said "organizing discussions with them," as in bring in a group of alt-right and a few comrades and have a collective debate.

It can be organized if you are willing to leave your cave and have a party.

This, basically. Sreencapped excellent ultrafag post about this.

Not to mention, you don't have to be doing something revolutionary all the time. You can beat up nazis for the direct benefit it brings (removing violent thugs from public places), or just for fun.

Lately it seems "we" don't do anything we are supposed to do and instead do a lot of punching, smashing, idpol, and so on.

Enlist as a police officer then and live out your sadistic white-knight fantasies there.

If we're not doing anything it's not the fault of our vegetable gardens or artistic attempts, so why would it be the fault of something else that can be both useful in its own way, and entertaining in its own way?

Are you sure you shouldn't be using the pacifist flag?

how is this
useful in your mind?

It's funny how anti-fascism and smashie thuggery is literally the vigilante equivalent of Batman-style policing. There is no actual effort in organizing alternative politics; no party forming. It's all just hitting down the ugly face of capitalism when it rears its head and then being glad and content when liberal democratic order is restored. Curing the symptom and nothing else.

lel

SAVE ME, HEROIC ANCOM, AN ALT-RIGHT IDIOT ENTERED MY SAFE-SPACE! HE NEEDS A PUBLIC BEATUP AND MORE MEDIA ATTENTION TO REINFORCE THE VIEW THAT OUR ENEMIES ARE NOT THOSE IN POWER BUT THE MUNDANE IDIOTS!

t. never left his basement

most of them are fucking junkies
sure they're laid back and like to drink and do drugs but they're mostly mindless apes

not sure whats worse, antifa retards or morons who defend them on the internet without ever meeting them

This amount of idealism is unhealthy

most people seem to enjoy laughing at a nazi getting punched. i've only seen concern trolling and hand-wring over it by nazi sympathizers tbh

This.

Where were you pathetic faggots when Obama got inaugurated twice? He bombed hundreds of thousands of civilians, he bailed out wallstreet.

You spineless cowards, "in for it the fun" and not willing to sweat for the working class, to build lasting movements. I despise your kind from the depths of my heart.

if it's not propaganda of the deed it's not worth doing

I'm calling bullshit on your testimony, kiddo

I don't care. Not everybody is a lifeless idiot around here.

Says the LARPer

Say there's a public place where there are nazis being dicks and possibly violent. Would it not be beneficial to have them not be there? In what universe is having nazis somewhere better than not having nazis somewhere?

You're just being a nazi apologist now.

You stupid black and white thinking horse cum stain. You can fucking do both you absolutely retarded ass ball. Do you not watch tv, do you not defend yourself from muggings, do you not comfort friends in need, do you not play video games, read fiction, masturbate? You can do all of those things, beat up nazis, and still build a lasting movement.

Buddy unless you're ending a nazis life he will always be somewhere doing nazi things

Punching and yelling is not stopping nazis from doing nazi things

You are the LARPer.

WEW
E
W

youtube.com/watch?v=R2Fy8PUaM-E

I'm not saying you shouldn't kill nazis. I'm just saying kicking them out at least temporarily is obviously better than allowing them free reign.

In my eyes you are not any better than tankies wanting to gulag all lumpens. They make the same fucking non sequitur arguments as you do:
Replace them with niggers, still works.

You should really consider the police force. You might have a non-hierarchical (wink wink) carrier ahead of you there.

I'm going to assume this is just

Except black people are not a group of people united by their desire to be violent retards. Nazis are. You choose to be a nazi.

You should really consider
>>>/liberty/
you might like the NAP.

Like i said
anarkiddies will make for good organized thugs, secret police agents

talk to them or kill them but "kicking them out of public places" is not better in any sense because you just look like a dick and a hypocrite

You really overestimate how much people care about nazis.

Even so, I don't think they're going around punching churchladies.

If you haven't noticed, most people don't choose their ideologies, it finds them, rather. These nazis see that something is wrong with the world, and they falsely accuse the jerbs and nignogs of causing them. It "made more sense" to them and was more available to them as a spontaneous explanation (because hegemony of bourgeois ideology).

They, like all people, can be convinced. They can, like all people, realize that they were wrong.

Becoming a communist takes a lot of effort and not everybody has the chance or gets the help necessary and you should already know this.

you are literally idpol tier, btw

...

how sheltered are you

youtube.com/watch?v=st4IHokD4Jc&t=7s

So what, do people have a genetic disposition to their ideologies? Is it bad taste? Pick one, or give up materialism altogether.

Enough to give them a platform, television time, rights and defend them online?

I always wondered, why do you liberals think you need to be out punching nazis but nobody ever seems to think that the news reporters and cameramen should get their equipment smashed and themselves beat the fuck up for giving them a platform?

Are you just obsessed with showing the world that you punched nazis and "did your duty" or some shit?

At what point did you choose to become a white knight for a Nazi?

I bet you are the hypocrite who keeps making le punchy punchy threads, and "look at how many people are pissed in the comment section," while at the same time arguing here that the public doesn't matter.

I don't follow this tribalist logic of yours.

fucking thank you

Yeah, turns out it's pretty good for morale boosting and propaganda

normies love nazis being punched

Too bad, because the Nazis you're best buds with sure do. They would stab you in the back the instant they thought it's unamusing to make fun of you

youtube.com/watch?v=eK76SIygVBo

just check out the last two min
is this who you autists are
kek
talk about LARPING

silly goose dont you know the history or your own ideology

You are talking to someone who has actual discussion with them, and not even your soft American "alt-right," but literal lumpen and prole nazis who boast about lynching minorities. As I said earlier, your cowardice of facing our political tasks sickens me.

This is the guy anarkiddies and libtards on this board are sucking the dick of.

No surprise there.

So because they're stupid, they should be allowed to run free and be violent animals or tedious public disturbances? When they come to you or somebody else with violence, is hugging them and trying to talk them out of it the only proper thing to do?
Holy shit you are deep in the justifying there not being a legitimate leninist state right now.

Is the average citizen giving them those platforms, is farmer john giving him television time, is sarah the cashier giving him rights, and defending him online?
I think it's the rich doing most of that, and the nazis themselves and people already sympathetic to far-right ideas defending themselves online.

Why do you think it's obsession to not want a nazi blocking some area, or threatening people, or attacking people? Why is it so essential they be allowed to do these things?

Nope I never make threads. Good job being a nazi apologist faggot though.

As you can tell ITT, the anarkiddies smashies have quite the pickle with the guy, and always have. First because he's a Leninist, second because he's telling them maybe LARP on LARP action in the streets is just reformist thuggery and counter to any kind of emancipatory building.

Them making fun of your feeble attempts of conversion doesn't count as discussion. Your coddling to nazis is what is sickening

I'm not saying that they're not shizophrenic about it.
They're always like this.

THEM NIGGERS ARE RAMPANT VIOLENT ANIMALS THAT NEED TO BE CONTROLLED

YOU CAN'T REASON WITH THEM

S U P P A H P R E D A T O R S

You're making Lenin turn into his exhibition glass-box

Literally idpol.

Remember Bernie Sanders? He rallied behind him the kind of people traditionally predisposed to leaning heavily towards the Republicans. How? By fucking talking to them. And he's managed to get his shot just like that, instead of smiting them because they're also very disposed to becoming skinheads-lite (evangelical followers of the fundamentalist right).

Zizek is a Leninist, yes. He's written over 10 books about his admiration of Lenin and analyses of him, while you were out LARPing. Congratz.

I bet you'd get mad at someone for defending themselves from a mugger because it's not directly responsible for putting the means of production in the hands of the working class too.

Holy shit. Let me just say that again.

Again black people aren't united by their desire to be violent genocidal thugs, they're just a race.
Nazis made the conscious choice to be violent genocidal thugs, just because they're stupid enough to take them seriously doesn't mean we should baby them.

...

...

Heaven's above, what a brilliant strategy!

Oops. Thought you were talking about the Lenin Hat ITT. That was my bad

yes they are actually

you dont understand how ideology works eh buddy

you need your opponents to be demonstrably unfavourable in order to expose them for what they are to the masses you fool

Yes: concentrate all your efforts on the mugger, not the system that breeds people like him. Good job! Now pat yourself on the back by pretending you're doing actual organization on the side. I'm sure bystanders will love seeing you play vigilante against the criminals!

Like pottery.

...

Yes you fucking dolt. When there's a mugger in front of you, being an immediate problem, you deal with the mugger. What would you do when getting mugged, try to reason with the mugger and explain to him the real reason he's doing this? That's. Fucking. Retarded.

Odd that none of it includes talking to Nazis and yet that's what you support. Like I said. Take of the hat, LARPer

Oh no!

What the fuck is going on right now?

...

He doesn't want his friends from when he was a Holla Forumsack to get hurt.

le-mao zizek is really crawling up his own ass lately isnt he

spencer is a racial supremacist opportunist shitbag cunt, if he was about to slaughter 16% of the polish population or roll into russia with a Vernichtungskrieg id say yeah you should probably punch him, with a mortar shell.

you fucking limpdicked pansexual treehugger buji fags need to stop using the word nazi willy fucking nilly, be more precise and dont blow everything out of proportion like you are, well Trumpvoted for him btw as any real leftie did that has actually been paying attention and understand geopolitics

Anyhow this is a shit excerpt, zizeks apartment must be moldy its even more intellectual masturbation than usual.

Also Sittlichkeit can be fucking shit if you have too much of it you autistic slovenian shitcunt slob, best examples of this are probably parts of germany and most of japan

be wary lefties, you need to stay on your game, im watching quite a few of you drift into irrelevanceothers are powerleveling thanks to all the shit going on right now

typical westerners
why don't you fuck off
WE ARE THE WORKERS

Yes, yes. Very comparable to Nazi LARPers on the street whining about muh anuddah shoah and nervously shaking like spastics while the local news channel interviews them. Yes, yes. Brilliant.

Unlike you, apparently, I don't get mugged for every second of my life, and every potential mugger out there is not actively mugging, be it me or in general. I go out and organize, educate, engage in discourse. This way I can actually legitimize just going in gangs to hit the evil muggers marching on the street with their bald heads.

See, you might get support if you only actually acted in self-defense instead of your moral thuggery crusades against wrongthink coming from bumfucks.

...

meanwhile, in reality

>if he was about to slaughter 16% of the polish population or roll into russia with a Vernichtungskrieg
TOP KEK

Nazi here, why do you hate us, brah?

We just want a nation for ourselves, no blacks or jews.

fuck off falseflag

"Go out in gangs and rove the street in search of Nazis and beat them up."
- t. Noam Chomsky (paraphrased)

Do you believe yourself?

You smell bad

PM me when Chomsky puts out a book about the necessity of revolutionary terror.

have an upvoat

Please do not bully.

It's the smell of semen, my offering to you, m'lady.

Homeless people can fucking get on the internet in the west, and the west does contain a working class.

Yes. Very comparable dumbass. Nazi "larpers" don't sprinkle people with pixie dust and engage in polite conversation. Nazis create legitimate problems, disturbances, and violence.
You're either very young, or very dishonest, if you're going to claim nazis are non-violent.

And if you do get mugged, would you attempt to reason with them? Just giving them the money isn't directly revolutionary so you can't do that.

B-BUT THEY ARE TAKING OUR S-SAFE SPACES!

Nazi here, we have done nothing to hurt you guys.

Please do not beat us up.

There was a time not too long ago where nazis would regularly harass and attack people around here.

Why is everyone so quick to forget these things?

youre not dealing with anyone and you should totally be mugged

wewewewwe, I really dont like to get involved in lefty sectarianism but the ancoms here are fucking retarded it seems

i bet you think trump is about to put the mexicans in concentration camps and pence is already testing the juice on his car battery for some serious fagzapping

Please do not confuse internet posts with violence!

Like fucking what? Every single ACTUAL fascist takeover in history did not happen because we let the LARPers become actual politicians who controlled the Italian or German state. What happened was that they actually organized into political parties, and they did so off the failures of capturing the support of the left elsewhere. In Italy this was the martial defeat of the Italian communist party, in Germany the state killing off the KPD and consequently social democrats betraying the working class and literally installing Hitler into the seating themselves. Your only proper weapong against actually changing things is proper organization. Proper appeal to the masses. Fascism is more than just an orientation than can blossom into power. Fascism is when the state itself decides it needs to embolden its interests for capital. The "Nazi" LARPers on the streets are but useful idiots. They serve no actual purpose in aiding any actual potential fascist takeover. Only you can, and not by LARPing along with them.

You are a literal mongoloid if you cannot comprehend this.

Nazi here, seriously guys, we are just innocent internet posters, what's with all the big words?

The fuck kind of underage bullshit is this?

I mean my general region. Where nazi violence was once a common thing, and if it was allowed to continue it would have continued to this day.

neo-nazis gang up and hurt people. Sometimes they kill them.

I'm very sorry to that but I'm sure they are just a minority and do not represent our ideology.

"alt right" =/= nazis

ffs

this cockweasel was on katehon, hell ill listen to anybody for a bit, the moment he said "Identitarianism is back and thats a good thing" with a shit eating grin on his face I fucking turned it off, mumbling obscenities at the screen

I feel like the best defence against people like this is to call them niggers

Precisely. They are thugs. Not politicians. You are a thug as well if all you do is engage in fisticuffs with them on street. Agitate, educate and organize. Your pedantic vigilantism serves only to help maintain liberal democracy with a human face, nothing else. And it goes at the cost of any actual emancipatory movement.

alt-right is made up shit

but i wonder where this homeless anarkiddie faggot live now

But I'm the right kind of thug!

For one, aut-right = internet nazis
And secondly, actual fucking neo-nazis are still a thing you fucking moron. Those still exist. They still attack people. Why do you insist on pretending this is not the case?

Defending yourself is not being a thug. It's actually somewhat expected since it's legal.

that flag is always giving me cancer

Not even 1% of all instances of anti-fascist LARPing are in response to violence; they are a response to LARPing from the other side. You have no justification for beating up LARPers but fulfilling your own interpellated role as LARPer. Pathetic.

If you were actually defending yourself, you'd know you were and would have actual public support. But you don't. All you do is thug out at thugs, and then wonder why everyone thinks you're worthless and why the left is unpopular.

youve never met an actual nazi, i have, both stateside AB and kraut nazis

there is a big fucking difference between these retards and a fucking "nazi", its not about the exact definition of their ideology they are fucking feral animals basically not unlike any other racial gang. american ones are by far the worst, most german ones are a bit LARPy as well, they arent as homicidal. youll fucking know when you see one faggot, they should probably be put down in the long run.

You dont know what the fuck you are talking about is what im saying everyone can tell. you can argue that this is a disturbing trend yadda yadda and i would agree to an extent but you need to stop fucking acting like you are in the Armja Krajowa bitch, you arent fighting nazism, claiming such a thing shows how green behind the ears you are and you are shitting babyshits into the collective discourse

Everything is made up shit, from liberalism through the Zeitgeist movement to conservatism. People pick up made up shit banners all the time, if you haven't noticed. We can still talk about the general trends, classes, statistics, etc. of these groups.

Meh. I have 3 acquaintances IRL who identify as "alt-right" (and I'm not even in America, mind you!). One is a typical libertarian who spouts memes IRL with an inferiority complex, the second a self-identified "sith" who never had a stable relationship in his life, the third a totally miserable dude living with his psycho mother and granny. Age group: 23-26.

They regularly share the inane alt-right memes, from anti-feminist shit, to race realism crap, with the only purpose of seeking replies (meanwhile alienating themselves from everyone).

They are the reincarnation in this sense of the fedora atheists: always ready to be the most controversial know-it-all, and le chivalrous debate for the Great Cause™.

If you call these nazis, you need to open up a history book for starters, then go to a real nazi pub.

...

where are you from bitch I dont believe you but it might be true tell me

This nigga gets it.

You know it bro.

Are you the the same as the Freud cigar guy by any chance?

You really do think they're all polite little princesses, don't you?

Oh boy well aren't you tough. I'm fucking shivering in my fluffy little boots. I'm saying individuals and communities should defend themselves against neo-nazi violence. You just admitted they're feral animals. Why then, do you insist they be free to do whatever they want?

Internet nazis identify as alt-right. Not all of them, but many of them.

A neo-nazi recently has been suspected of being involved in the murder of a child. Go figure it out.

be ar adobinus
eggpoct us

THE HOLOCAUST IS NIGH
PUNCH ALL ALT-RIGHTISTS WHO FOLLOW TRUMP ON TWITTER

kek you're an actual german
this is too good to be real

man i honestly wish all you retarded krauts get whipped out
no place for you in the revolution

Aside from mainstream media, Holla Forums, nazis, and Holla Forums, I have never seen anyone get angry about anti fascist action. Never. I've met people, 70+ years old who are glad when it happens because it's happening to nazis.

Not German. But go figure two neo-nazis in two different countries have been suspected of child murder recently.
Truly, nazis are the ideology of peace.

The pinnacle of your vigilantism as of late comes from hitting Richard Spencer, emotional manchild, as he was sperging out in an interview on television. Amazing. Very dangerous, and I'm sure you've not just given Spencer an cesspool of edgy teenagers to get interested in. Ever wonder why Nazi LARP gangs only get bigger while autifa LARP gangs get gayer? Because there's no substance, only interpellation.

If you were serious about actually ending this LARPing, you would be out on the streets talking to working class men and women, interesting them in things other than the Nazi LARPing shit they might trap themselves in. You could at the very least spend your time trying to learn about the workings of society otherwise. But you don't. Not for a moment. For you are perpetually enamored by the impulse to pseudo-activity. You do not read, you do not understand the world, you have nothing but your fists and your mind set to zero.

I feel for you. Such a pathetic use of one's energy, and so counter-productive to anything you claim to stand for…

well said, in many ways you are legitimizing their retarded bit of unintentional street theater comedy by putting on your own retarded production, youre making it harder for an outsider to figure out who the bigger retards are

there are very viable reasons to hit the street, this shit lately has been fucking ridiculous however, if these people were really this freaked over trump they should probably be making some actual preparations instead of doing a fucking broadway number over issues they barely seem to understand

not an answer bitch, dont be fucking cagey with me im being honest with you

suck my dick, im not going to figure out the human interest story you are referring to, are you being hunted in the streets by racially motivated jackboot thugs? if you are from greece and a fugee i might believe you, you fucking arent though. Are you an american? if you are you need to stfu unless you are in prison, only place AB is a serious threat outside of random crazy shit like roof

Please don't be so racist, these people do not represent us!

du bist DEUTSCH???

lol halt dein maul junge selbst wenn du ein ossi bist, die scheiss antifa hier legitimisiert die NPD, ihr seid beides neoliberale handlanger

das schlimmste daran ist dass die drecks nPD langsam anfängt weniger neoliberal zu wirken als ihr

...

Are you saying we should just accept child murder because it's not genocide?

Do you sincerely believe everything that happens gets media attention, and if it's not on the news it hasn't happened?
I do talk to the working class. I'm trying to start an anarchist reading group (not on the internet). I can do all the necessary things as well as advocate self defense you nazi lover.

Am I personally being hunted in the streets? No I'm posting here and watching cartoons.

Don't tell me you're claiming there's no nazi ideology, or claiming nazis are similar to black people. Is it something else?

ah fucking hell
i fucking fell for it
fuck off, you had me going
now be so kind and go the fuck back to Holla Forums

RACIST

just tell us where you are from ya fackin batty boy, nobody is saying nazis are the ideology of peace they are telling you to not be a shrill retard

I'm disappointed, not angry. "Anti-fascist action" has been rightfully criticized by communists from the getgo. If you can't understand that you are closer to liberalism than communism by being an "antifa" "activist," it's your loss. Could you please drop your flag, maybe? You make us look like idiots. Thanks.

shit, meant for

YES, you mongoloid. The media captures anti-fascist thugs punching "muh innocent white nationalist who jus doesn't want muh waite geNOcide" and he garners support, while you get nothing. At best you get a few months of fame on weird Twitter and a few memes, but nothing lasts.

Have you actually gone out to see what public opinion about this was? Take a wild guess, you pathetic shit. Then take a look at what public opinion was, and then take a good look at the state of the modern left. What good to the cause you are, you LARPing shit. The left has never been more in shambles, and you're giving it its extra cyanide just desserts.

Great, stick to that. Hold your fists for actual defense, not playing vigilante against LARPers.

Great advocacy. You destroyed objects and punched LARPers who now publically are martyrized. A victory for the proletariat!

Fucking pitiful.

he really is wiping himself with it

This is the worst part, really. That modern autifags think they're upholding the legacy of the communist movement. These nerds, outside of not even knowing that anti-fascism was born from social democratic treason, are completely unaware of the fact that the actual communist left critiqued anti-fascist pseudo-activity from day one, and critiqued it precisely for being vigilantist garbage,.

From 19 fucking 30, a communist critique of anti-fascism: libcom.org/library/anti-fascism-formula-confusion-bilan-1934

...

Get fucked Commies, you've lost and all you'll do about it is sit and twiddle your feminine cocks ;)

that fucking trashcan retard has now officialy done more damage to the "left" than the likes of spencer probably ever could

Here's what I think you guys are saying.
But here's why I think it's retarded.
Nazis aren't peaceful.
In an average day we each do many things that are not directly responsible for bringing about socialism and yet I don't see you crusading against porn or gardening for being awaste of energy.

I haven't posted on Holla Forums since Ron Paul was a thing.

There's no reason to do "this" with anti-fascist action when it's literally action that is anti-fascism. It's been defended by anarchists as well you know. Which is what you are.

No you fucking retard. Not everything that happens gets media attention, read Kropotkin for crying out loud holy shit.
Holla Forums is not representative of public opinion.

Oh shit. Does that mean I shouldn't finish making the map I'm making for a video game? It's not directly responsible for the creation of a workers state so I guess it's a fucking sin.

Hey, I almost forgot, do you anti-fascist cunts want to know something interesting? Guess who didn't get exiled from Italy after the fascist takeover. The communists? Nope, all murdered. Anti-fascists? All released on fucking bail. Communism lived in evile during world war 2 in Europe, anti-fascism sat by in comfort.

Illiterate, history ignoring pissbabies need to equate their heads with a fucking book.

youtube.com/watch?v=eK76SIygVBo

but ARE WE THE WORKERS?!

Keep liking those facebook posts and make sure to retweet Trump!

Heads up! This is how the communists win, eventually:

not all pepes are created equal

Wait, America is a black kid crying?

You got to the picture part. Good. Keep at it and you'll finish the first sentence.

I do not understand.

We've all been there, but pushed further. You can do it too, chum!

Is this some kind of scat reference?

its not that its "not bringing about the revolution" numbnuts, its fucking counterproductive, they made themselves into a laughingstock and then they suckerpunched that retard with the HitlerJugend haircut while he was giving an interview saying

they turned themselves into propaganda for the rightists, con-fucking-grats

youre barely thinking at all, you are acting like a child trying to self-actualize by creating some struggle for good and evil where there really isnt one, there was no real intent nevermind strategy behind the to-do, it was the most ridiculous "protest" ive seen in a long time

you want to fight nazis go to donetsk, or go to greece and help protect fugees and the like

Yes, because the critique of counter-productive vigilantist LARPing is also obviously directed at personal hobbyisms.

Retard. Demagogue. Disigenuous and cognitively dissonant.

hah

It was heavily implied at least.
I don't get it. Wouldn't you also want those in greece and donetsk to treat nazis with absolute pacifism as well? Because my argument is that nazis are violent and should be met with retaliatory violence. If they should then, okay yeah, they should.

Just because it's not useful for one thing doesn't mean it's not perfectly acceptable in its own way, was my point. Nazi lover. Pacifist. Anfem.

Oh and you really need to learn to read between the lines my absolutely fucking retarded comrade.

libcom.org/library/anti-fascism-formula-confusion-bilan-1934

Remove everything remotely related to the history of anti-fascism from the face of the earth and my memory, and still I would argue it's not a bad thing to beat up a nazi.
I also don't think it's a bad think to beat up an ancap.

Thank you for contributing, comrade. The revolution is just a few bashed thugs and windows away, I'm sure.

Okay sure but can you tell me why beating up, or killing nazis is bad? Keep in mind it doesn't even have to be done under the banner of anti-fascism or communism or anarchism. It can be done just because "he's a nazi".

And quit with the black and white thinking, you can quite easily do both things and it's more autistic to somehow think you can't than just admit you can.

It isn't. The thing is, you're not beating up Nazis, you're beating up LARPing thugs, and nothing else.

Futile effort on its own. Create or join a political party. Garner support from the working class instead of alienating it. Fight for betterment of the world, not vigilantism.

You are completely deaf to critique. If this is what you've reduced the critique to, there is no point staying ITT and talking to you anymore. You will forever be little more than a useful idiot ruled by interpellation.

I guess I need to specify, but I was talking about the negative propaganda value that has been brought up when I said to just do it without associating it with leftism if you're so sure of that.
Even though it has positive propaganda value.

Nazi thugs. What makes them so special and in need of protection?

It's hardly futile on its own. You're completely ignoring the direct and immediate effects. Not having nazis standing where there were once nazis standing is a benefit that doesn't interfere with the pursuit of revolution. The people who get so upset about it are already people who sympathize with nazis which is in quite a lot of places, a minority. The media denouncing this sort of retaliatory violence doesn't mean most people do. The media does not represent popular opinion.

What kind of stupid, dogmatic argument is that?

the main goal against actual homicidal/violent nazis would be defence and keeping them from continuing to commit violent/homicidal acts, translation you probably fucking kill them, especially if the state is unwilling or unable to combat them(usually the former, case in point greece and ukraine where the nazis are basically in government to varying degrees)

what everyone is trying to drum into your skull is that these arent murderous violent nazis, they are rightist yes but they are still larping western liberals, 1 in 500k is going to pull a dylan roof, the kind of shit we saw on j20 played right into the hands of the crowd that is trying to push the kind of identitarian bullshit spencer promotes forward, and it made the "left" look like incoherent retarded children

Im the first to support direct action if there is reason and a goal behind it, none of those things were the case during the recent shenanigans

What kind of stupid, dogmatic argument is that?>>1297243
Even if we agree to this, what are the mid and long-term effects? Vigilantism on both sides grows, soccer club-type pointless clashes, media denouncing the left as aggressors, cry baby alt-right movement grows, idpol on both sides, completely ignorant and blind to actual class struggle.

...

Can millionaires be anti-fascists?
Can the bourgeois be anti-fascists?
Can liberals be anti-fascists?
Can conservatives be anti-fascists?

Wow, this is such an inclusive club! Feels like true communism in here!

That on its own is not an argument dumb shit. It is a part of one. Where I explain that even without everything we know as antifa I would be okay with people beating up nazis.
But you knew that and you're just being a cunt.

Have I ever specified that I'm only talking about fucking Boston or something? As eager as you are to defend the alt-right, that's not like all the nazis and I never said "hey let's go specifically after Holla Forums"

As long as it doesn't -prevent- us from doing other things that have long term effects, doing things that have short term effects shouldn't be entirely dismissed I don't think. The one reason this may be bad that I agree with is I can definitely imagine it'd just cause escalation, though on the other hand, left to themselves the far-right tends to escalate things on its own. I understand that idpol is a thing but you're a fucking retard for seeing it absolutely everywhere.

Nobody can be an anti fascist :^)
Stop defending fascism either way you absolute fuck banana.

yes

youtube.com/watch?v=WCOv8X-u2Ko

Zizek is always right, praise cocaine

Okay, please give me the obvious reason we shouldn't do something with short term benefits that does not prevent us from doing things with long term benefits.

In theory.

Not even in theory.

What is even going on here?

> From 19 fucking 30, a communist critique of anti-fascism: libcom.org/library/anti-fascism-formula-confusion-bilan-1934
It's LeftCom critique from 1934.

Communists are generally assumed to be Bolsheviks, not Italian splinter movement nobody even heard of, except some historians and extreme hipsters. Comintern - the very next year - supported anti-Fascism. Of course, not the strawman variety Bilan is arguing against.

Seventh World Congress of the Communist International, 1935
marxists.org/reference/archive/dimitrov/works/1935/unity.htm
> This unanimity may, undoubtedly be regarded as one of the most important conditions for success in solving the paramount immediate problem of the international proletarian movement, namely, establishing unity of action of all sections of the working class in the struggle against fascism.

Yes, the comintern clearly meant black bloc type vigilantism and punching interviewed "alt-right" (not even fascists) people in the internet age.

t. the ziz