Abolish the bourgeois civilization that is destroying earth

The only way to save the earth is abolishing Civilization and agriculture.

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Read Bookchin tbh

fuck the earth tbh
I care about humanity
I would have preferred the earth stayed nice, but it's to late. Geoengineering will be the future


This is somehow naive and cynical at the same time. If you want humanity to survive that means ensuring the planet survives. Species don't exist in a vacuum.

we have the technology right now to exist without a wild biosphere
it's not scfi-fi
you can grow food and create breathable air without the biosphere right now. it's just most countries would be thrown into complete chaos by climate change, but wealthy countries could build the infrastructure needed. We have the tech to put a colony on mars if we wanted to, so we can certainly live on earth without a biosphere.

Why would you even want to live in such a world? It sounds like hell.

bullshit. maybe a handful of billionaires, sure. the resources required given our current level of technology makes the idea absolutely unfeasible.
Are you hearing yourself? Billions just to support a handful of people. Truly a practical model for the future of humanity :^)

I don't want to, but capitalism WILL destroy the planet's biosphere

Billions, to launch a fuckton of things into space
If the US had a functioning state socialism, they could build air-tight greenhouses, housing, and transportation. And honestly we don't even need that most likely, only in the worst case scenario that ALL plants and ALL plankton and algae die, making the air breathable. And this collapse would happen over I long period.


We don't give a shit about your liberal fantasies. Nature doesn't exist. Ecology is the new religion of the masses. As soon as we can we should leave this chaotic piece of rock.

We're kinda past the point of no return on climate change fam. Cyborgs and geoengineering is the only way.


billions for the equipment used, not even considering the cost to launch it.
replace handful of billionaires with handful of party members
I don't know how you expect man to survive when the world is transformed into a second venus


You're all being silly buggers, if we crushed capitalism tomorrow we could stop the wholesale destruction of the environment with only minimal impact on quality of life and reverse most of the damage within 100 years. We don't need to slaughter 99.9℅ of people with primitivism or go full STEMlord.

wow, i love bookchin now

do you have some humanist bookchin vids to share too?

Except we will still need something like geoengineering to reverse the amount of C02 already in the atmosphere, and that's also to try and stop ocean acidification, let alone reverse climate change. The former cannot be reversed after the majority of sea life goes extinct. That's allot of food gone. Cybernetics is debatable though.

Reminder that historical materialism is bullshit and Marxism is fundamentally flawed

This. Ted Kaczynski was right. I wouldn't say destroy agriculture, but destroy modern agriculture. The Ancients had no problem with these things, they grew einkhorn and barley and lived fine lives.

Dawg, the paris agreements are literally based on the assumption that we'll invent and implement CO2 scrubbing sometime in the next 50 years. If we can't do that we are completely fucked.

I'm not speaking against geo-engineering, only against the idea that we can live in neat bubbles throughout the planet and do so in a way that doesn't effectively wipe out most of the species. I'm all for using natural processes to undue environmental damage.

There are things we can do right now to fix this, without having to rely on a future that isn't certain.

We need to do more than we are, that doesn't mean destroy civilisation and agriculture. Why do primitivists never take the first step to a deindustrialized world and kill themselves?

Who said destroy civilization and agriculture? I'm a communalist not an anarcho-suicideist

Going by the OP, wasn't strictly saying you thought that.

We need to go nuclear yesterday. Fucking hippies have done as much to destroy the planet as oil execs.

Your idea of "can" doesn't take into account what people will predictably do given their self-interest. Sure, the bourgeoisie could in theory stop ruing the planet. They won't though, because it's against their interests. Moreover, you need to look at the system as a system not as just the rational human agents within it. If a significant number of the bourgeoisie were to ruin the environment less (at increased cost to themselves), the ones who continued to ruin the environment would outcompete them and we're back to square one where the most effective exploiters dominate the market. When people say shit like "we can do things to fix this" it makes it hard for me to imagine any alternative to the idea that they fundamentally don't understand what capitalism is.

Man, in Marx's time the impact on the environment of capitalism wasn't that understood and there were still real revolutions over workers rights alone, how is the modern world so shitty and apathetic?

The problem with nuclear outside of the waste is that it requires a level of centralization that's fundamentally undesirable. With liberatory technology like solar and wind that allows for the decentralization of society.

Who said capitalism will fix this? Capitalism is the very thing that's killing the planet, and it can't do anything but kill it because like a cancer it keeps growing until it kills it's host. We need to overthrow the system of domination that is capitalism and nation-states.

Meh, there is such a thing as centralised democracy. We need big power generation now, maybe solar and stuff can be phased in later after lifestyle changes.

A sustained campaign of the ruling class distracting the proles with commodities and crushing any examples that counter the narrative that capitalism is the best possible system.

Lots of people do, based on your vague post I assumed that's what you meant. A revolution is unlikely to happen on that kind of scale any time soon. There is simply not the organization for it and not enough willpower or awareness to create the organizations necessary. Sadly we can't do shit to ameliorate climate change for now.

The best possibility is a new revolution in a country that could actually handle such a thing and that has a reasonably high level of development, including internet access. In order to get people to see that attempting communism is better than what we have now, they need to see people talking about living in communism on social media. That's how the younger generations get their knowledge of the world. They see people's testimonies, watch videos and tweets of what's going on there, etc. People need to see an example that can go viral for them to get there is something else possible, because any more people base their understanding of the world on what they see in media.

Democracy is incompatible with centralization. The essential unit of democracy in the sense that I mean it is the polis

There's plenty of people willing to engage in politics, the thing that is lacking is the proliferation of theory that can actually result in concrete change. I don't know if you've noticed, but even impoverished warzones like syria have access to the internet. If you want to change things then do so by engaging in politics in the most fundamental, face to face manner that you can. Get involved with people at your local college or other institutions of higher learning. Start a study group and work on changing the nature of your local politics to make them democratic and involved

The village council is no more democratic ultimately than the global parliament.

Anyway this topic is just making me sad now. Do you guys think that anything I could really personally so could make a difference? Talking illegally here. I keep wondering why nobody does anything…

You're right, let's just nuke it all so Socialism can arise from the ashes

Bullshit. If you're going to make such a claim you could at least explain it. Lone acts of vandalism and sabotage accomplish nothing. The only hope is the creation of a mass movement, but movements have to start somewhere and start small.

I meant more like bombing some concentration of bourgeois filth. I think about that kind of thing a lot, feel cowardly that I never really was serious about it. What did all the communist guerrillas in history have that I don't? Clearly some quality… Or maybe I just don't want to do it on my own like a crazy person. When you have a group of killers, that makes it a movement, hahah… I guess it wouldn't make any difference anyway, but god, it just makes me so angry…

FBI pls. If your interested in "violent action" then join the YPG and fight ISIS. They have academies there where you can learn theory, organizational skills etc.

There must be some grand gesture that could inspire people right? It can't really just be a slow slide into oblivion that I can't do anything about?


And what, it doesn't get you down?

I'm just not a defeatist that thinks nothing can be done. I certainly don't think nihilistic acts of destruction are the solution

I just think violence is the only way one non rich/influential person can change anything about the world. I just feel personally guilty for not at least trying to do something.

Welp, you're wrong and you should stop being an edgelord. Stop pitying yourself and work on improving yourself, since it seems like you've got issues of confidence and depression.

I live in an area that's saturated with military. It would take under an hour for me to walk to the nearest base. Then there's a manufacturing center for military hardware right up the road from me. The whole economy here is based on US imperialism. The people are at the same level as Japan when it comes to being classcucked. I could accomplish something locally if I moved first.

You don't open up with FULL GOMMUNISM. Pretty much all people are open to the idea of having greater autonomy and say in their lifes


I've tried that. They don't. Not here. Any suggestion to the effect that there's a way to live other than licking boots will get people angry at you. Suggesting that society can be something other than a trickle-down system will get people mad at you. They understand self-determination as going to live innawoods. If you suggest self-determination or self-ownership in the context of society you immediately set off the commie alarm. Not even a slight exaggeration.

If conservative syrian arabs can open up to socialism I seriously doubt that burgers can't

It's not about culture. It's about the material conditions. The middle east is a ruin. They want a way out of the nightmare. The people I'm talking about are the direct beneficiaries of global capitalism. They are the looters enjoying the spoils of imperialist war.