Are scientists working class?

Are scientists and mathematicians working class or bourgeoisie? I mean they aren't really exploiting anyone directly and perform direct labour, but still make a decent living.

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OP here.

Or is it possible that they are working class, but a certain part of the working class that the bourgeois strongly depends on, so they get higher pay?

An accurate term would be intelligentsia, I believe.

Living comfortably doesn't make one not working class. CEOs (assuming they only earn whatever they are paid for their labor) would be proletarian as well, just like house slaves were still slaves.

But just like house slaves, if they love their master more than their fellow slaves, then they deserve the same fare as their master.

If Stalin could be working class I think they could be too.

By this logic the term bourgeoisie has become a little dated, with the majority of companies owned by shareholders, many of which are pension funds, 401Ks, saving portfolios etc.

The real important point in all of this is how instrumental someone is to hindering the revolution, with billionaires and even millionaires who are funding to agitate against it being top of the list.

Do they make money from owning scientific or mathematic concepts? Then they are bourg.

Are they paid a wage, salary, commission or research grant?

Then they are a prole.

Although there should a category for lawyers/judges etc who may not necessarily own property but are direct bourg tools and make their money that way

Then most of them are working class.
You can not own a mathematic theorem or a physical discovery. You can just get paid for discovering it.

Even scientists (pharma, chemistry) who work in a field that deals with patents they mostly don't own these patents themselves.

so a CEO with a 100.000.000 dollar salary is a house slave while a street vendor is his ruler

this is what happens when you only see platonic forms

This post is too retarded for a serious reply.

So you think he owns the street on which he vends?

I understand the concept but you're really stretching it with CEOs as they're mostly paid in bonuses.

But yeah high level "techincians" (in a broad sense) such as engineers, top level programmers, professors, business analysts are still fundamentally working class.

What you fail to understand is that you are not bourgeoisie unless you are at the top of the pile, you don't owe anything to anyone, you don't pay rents you collect them, you don't pay interest you collect interest.

The petite bourg (small business owner) may own their own business and employ people, but they will ultimately still be paying off the loans they took out to start the business, or paying rent on the property their business sits upon, so they don't really own, they simply administrate what is really somebody else's property, usually the bank, they probably have a mortgage on their home, so they don't own that either.

This is why the bourgeoisie are truly only 0.1% of the population, almost everybody else rents,borrows or simply lives paycheck to paycheck be that an 80,000 a year salary or a 15000 a year wage. Everybody else lives in a cycle of earning money to pay to these people for their keep and these people collect this money simply for the supposed right of property, which is only and has only ever been the application of an abstract concept of ownership by force


Remember when the commies took over in China and Russia the first people to be killed were the academics and scientists.

petty bourg


Chinese commies killed a fuckton of people. Not because they were exploitative, but because they wanted to kill everyone that could think for themselves.


Choose one. Can't do both.

American Capitalist killed a fuckton of people, not because they were exploitative, but because they wanted to kill everyone that could think for themselves


Yup. But that doesn't make killing scientists and teachers any better.

Aren't you an anarchist? Aren't you supposed to be against state-killings or something? I thought the deviations into what communist states transform was one of your main arguments AGAINST states.

I do what I want nigga.

It was just human nature :^)

Why am I suddenly hungry for lolis?

What kind of fucking street vender is earning $100 million? Ayncraps are retarded.

Just because I point out Americas state killings does not mean I condone China's. You are trying to paint communism as inherently violent, when it is in fact capitalism which has the greater history of violence, despite the violent history or Marxist Leninism in some countries, despite that fact that Maoism is distinctly different from ML.

Capitalism and the state are one and the same thing to me.

Capitalism is statism and it is certainly not the religion of peace


don't get the Ancap excited

Capitalism kills something like 15 million people a year

I know it's late stage cancerism but I can't be fucked to find an alternative source atm

Why not? They were killing the bourgeoisie.
They were killing the bourgoise.

and how did that turn out exactly? Suicide nets on IPOD factories. Nice communism jerk off

suicide nets on factories where wage slaves build ipods for westerners is attributable to communism? not that I agree with the chinese purges just interjecting

There are three classes.

No, its attributable to the inevitable liberalisation that ML and derivatives are subject to

No there are two only owned and owners. There are various levels of owned, truly there are only a handful of real owners as I have tried to explain

Question: what if I'm a PhD physics student?

Which I am.

What do I count as?

I'm a biology undergrad and i hate how we are funded by big pharma only in areas that are profitable

Intelligentsia will always be the most easily converted proles, since we see the direct result capitalism has on scientific research on a daily basis. Be it journals, which are complete bullshit, or hunting for grants etc. In my faculty the student council is 70% communists, elections are actually communist infighting between tankies and trots/anarchists etc that usually form coalitions

even looking through a liberal lens ive never understood how science and development has always been avoided by governments, how is it not a public good the government should fund just like healthcare, education and infrastructure. Leaving it to private markets makes no sense, and then the only time it is funded is for the military.

" In the creation of post-monarchic Russia, Lenin dismissed the intellectuals and managers, because the “intelligentsia is not the ‘brain of the nation’, it is the ‘faeces of the nation.”"

Wasn't Lenin intelligentsia though…

well in my country, while being heavily in debt, it is still funded partially by the state (greece btw)

but since i wanna do a phd abroad on neurobiology, my prof has advised me to do parkinson's or alzheimer's research because that's what pharmas pay for. it just sickens me tbh, after feeding people and providing housing and healthcare, funding unis should be the biggest priority of society

we do live in a capitalist dystopia though :^)

Read some Marx, FFS.

most of the russian empire's intelligentsia were heavily involved with the regime though, hence why they were considered as a form of aristocracy. also, dont forget that only rich people could afford an education.

like user pointed though, lenin himself studied law. also, many key people of the old intelligentsia were absolved by the party in order to help with organizing the new state, but this was done behind closed doors

chinese commies killed off a whole bunch of people who would have eventually defected back to their reactionary thinking anyways, my guy

Ah good point.

What happens now that most jobs aren't really heavy work and often just involves sitting and doing stuff on the computer?

Labour aristrocracy and shit are just different types of prole

Its a bit more complicated then that. You get a patent at my job, and all you really get is a bonus to your salary and a "pat on the back" from the CEO, more or less. In other words, you get some of the credit, and the company takes your work and uses it to profit for all of eternity thereafter.

Fuck, ^^wrong response I meant that to the guy talking about patents

He (like Che) was bourgeois. It's funny though how this goes against all the new leftists dogma about how you are inherently more revolutionary if you're poor or some shit.

An anarchist insulting ML's for being prone to "liberalization" … Ohhhh boy you can't be serious with this garbage

USSR Liberalised. China Liberalised. Cuba will probably liberalise now even though Raoul says no its already going that way.

Common thread? Death of the glorious leader. Its a good idea, you just can't sustain the popular movement long enough for you to not forget why you are there and become counter revolutionary.

This is why we must remove the state entirely, so that any backslide isn't backed up by mountains of guns and a bought and paid for media

Same as Kropotkin, Bakunin, they were fucking aristocrats.

WTF man?