Why is leftism pro-Palestine? In what respect are the left and Zionism incompatible? What, given the current situation...

See, you've confused left with liberals here user, liberal support palestine because "muh oppression"

I mean, the FAQ for this board does state that the left is pro-Palestine…

Israel's scientific achievements alone are worth the lives of every dead Palestinian tbhqh

How can you genocide a group whose very definition is constructed by its opposition to Israelis?

I wonder who could be behind this post

PFLP
F
L
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there is no genocide happening and all that happened was an ethnic cleansing like what happened to the Germans in eastern europe post-world war 2 (tho 2 million did die so it was almost a genocide)

Leftism is anti-nationalist in character. The whole "pro-palestine" thing is revisionist, essentially blaming THE JEWS for the actions of the arab ruling class.

Because Israel is a white supremacist state that must be destroyed.

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I feel like the JIDF may be more active here than on Holla Forums

(nice digits)
there is an element of blame to be had for the Jews, Anglo-American Jews pushed hard for a Jewish state and really made no concessions for the Arab and non-Arab gentile populations of Palestine. On top of this the extreme shows of force against the Palestinians that have bordered on Nazi masturbation fantasy are pretty disgusting. Still it is hypocritical to support a free Palestine as all it would be is another Islamic Republic which is hostile to america and other islamic nations that oppose Iran (who would likely control Palestine from the shadows)

It was created by European imperialists and jewish zionists. It reproduces much of the same ideology throughout its legal system and bureaucracy. I don't care what color they are or aren't. They are basically a white nationalist state. They stole the land and in the end they will have to give it back.

"white" and "Jewish" are spooks anyway, but its pretty obvious that Israel is a racialist state.

those are some nice digits user

why does Israel have to go but Russia and America get to stay. you guys are nationalists yes? why can't their be arab-jewish israel that is based in NazBol principles?

lol quints

Consider the inconsistency in your statement for a second
Also
You know Jews lived in the Palestinian Mandate before Israel was created, don't you?

Yeah it's almost like the idea of a "jewish state" is an extension of the white imperialist mindset that was popular throughout Europe from the 19th to the mid-20th centuries. Weird huh?

It's almost like you totally failed to acknowledge the fact you stated Jews "stole" land, despite Jews having lived in "Palestine" continuously throughout recorded history.

The two things that trigger me most on this issue is how many "leftists" refuse to support leftist parties and groups in Israel/Palestine unless they're explicitly "drive the jews into the sea and create another tinpot theocratic dictatorship in place" as if that isn't going to be even worse than the status quo. Parties and groups that suggest a two-state solution along 68 boundaries with territory swaps and to support the establishment of a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza are routinely decried as "zionist" and opposed when they're the only ones with a remotely realistic plan.

The second is that significant (I think it was even more than the Palestinians?) numbers of Jews were purged from surrounding Arab countries in the mid-late 40s, to the point most Jews in Israel are Middle Eastern and brown af (despite European immigration and Europeans making up a disproportionate amount of their ruling class). The difference is that Israel integrated those displaced populations extremely well for the most part, while the Arab countries were more than happy to kick out their Jews, expropriate their property, but do nothing for the other Arabs that fled from the nascent state of Israel. They're quite happy to keep the Palestinians in squalor, whining about "those evil zionists" as a way of drawing attention away from their shitty domestic policies.

Leftist analysis on this issue rarely extends besides watered down incoherent "anti-imperialism" and doesn't ever want to consider what comes afterwards. "Puppies, sunshine, communism and rainbows, but only when the jews are purged" is a really shitty analysis, and I feel it is really no different than "The German people are being destroyed by those evil Jewish bloodsuckers and we need to remove them to preserve OUR CULTURE" or whatever.

tl;dr regressives and revisionists only care about dead Arabs when they can point their fingers at The Jew as being responsible.

counterpunch.org/2015/10/14/anti-imperialism-2-0-selective-sympathies-dubious-friends/

The Jews that lived there weren't the ones that stole it. Do you know nothing about how Israel was artificially created by imperialist powers in the aftermath of World War 2? Read a book.

Yep, you're right, the imperialist powers said "Here's Israel, we declare it to be." And all the Jews were magically vacuumed into Israel by imperialism fairies, which then fought wars against the Arab states for the Jews, ran their government, and pursued policies to make Israel into a state specifically for Jews. No Jew had any part in anything to do with the establishment of Israel or its policies towards Arabs in the former Mandate for Palestine.
Gosh, it must be great to be so right all the time.

Is the book "Mein Kampf" or? Israel is no different to any other state formed out of the ashes of the Ottoman Empire, it's not rocket science. Do you think the territory and population swaps between India and Pakistan when it was founded are imperialist and illegitimate or something too?

whats it like being one of those "born jewish but im secular" types who is a pseudo leftist and only pro israel because they happen to be jewish as well

fuckoff with your stupid ass "ITS EITHER SUPPORT ISRAEL OR WE HAVE A CALIPHATE, I KNOW WHAT SIDE I HAVE TO CHOOSE" retarded bullshit.

you are the same ypg flag poster who defends israel in every single thread, go to fucking bed you spooked pisspiggrandad

whats like being one of those "born secular but im muslim" types who is a pseudo leftist only so they can conceal they naked contempt for jews as well

i wish i could fight you in real life for believing such retarded made up garbage. the arab israeli war happened for a fucking reason, enough with this "israel is innocent" retardation its a colonial project based on religious superiority and you only defend it because you are jewish. you aren't a real communist you are a child

lol at this, what do you both want to happen in Israel?

Jews out? then where do they go? If they stay then what type of state replaces it? One which is an Islamic Republic? A state run by arab nationalists who are advocating for THEIR ethnic interests over the Jews and non-arabs? What is it that should replace Israel i'd love to hear a communist and NazBol answer this for me

thats not even remotely the fucking situation you stupid faggot.

how about you do some actual research before shitposting your spooked pro israel garbage

Because the left is infected with slave morality

the abolishment of apartheid, ie what palestine was before zionism

the right to return for arab christians and muslims who's homes were stolen in the name of the jewish caliphate and theocratic superiority

What's the situation, then? In what respect is an Arab genocide against the Jews in Israel, AKA the only realistic alternative to Israel's continued existence, compatible with the left? Also, I'm not Jewish, I just have a brain and don't fall asleep in my toasty Yasser Arafat jam-jams every night.

I'm not innately pro-Palestine, I am just anti-imperialist. Israel happens to be rather imperialist. Likewise they have our government by the balls. That pisses me off

stop posting anytime you stupid faggot, thats now what palestine was before zionism and there was never "arabs expelling jews from their countries" until zionism and the arab israeli war colonialist project robbed the region

fuck your ethnic superiority and fuck your literal thieving victim mentality. you aren't a communist you are just a faggot. if you were born muslim youd be defending isis right now since you are doing the same for its jewish counterpart

it was a province governed by Britain, this isn't a real answer. significantly smaller population. what happens to all those jews?

You should be pro palestine comrade. the only leftists or socialists who arent are just completely spooked by shit propanga like this ypg poster is shilling.

the death of an apartheid state should always be an important step. let the intifada lead the way for the peoples revolution

end apartheid.

the fact you think every man woman and jewish child would be killed if apartheid died is fucking pathetic, you have no clue what happened in the history of the region

wew lad

You mean, part of the Ottoman Empire? Or when it was a British protectorate? Do you include Jordan in that? Should Syria be returned to France? I've read a lot of retarded shit on this board but this takes the cake.

L M A O
How do I have ethnic superiority? Like I said, I'm not Jewish, I just don't happen to have Yasser Arafat's beatific face embroidered on flannel jam-jams, which I then cuddle into and fall asleep to toasty PLF dreams. Unlike you.

Israel is a secular state stop with the memes even if your digits are blessed

how would this affect Jewish population centers, would they accomodate their new arab neighbors, would they have to leave the country. would arabs be siezing businesses and properties and personal belongings from jews as part of their gibmedats? can all arabs move back their? who the fuck knows how many arabs are actually descended from the palestinians who left when their leaders told them to leave (because they thought they could come back after the arabs steam rolled israel)

answer every part of my question:

what happens to the jews
is it a two state solution
will there be massive redistribution of land and wealth
what kind of government would be established
would it be a theocracy or have religious parties or ethnic nationalism?

you gotta be clear because i support a two state solution and the integration of the entire arab population

end apartheid. workers state. stop thinking palestinians are fucking isis, they just want to be able to go back to their homes and live without crushing colonialism making them 2nd class citizens. all british colonialism is cancer

LOL This. Why do jews think that everyone wants to kill them all the time? Guilty conscience (with respect to their many,many crimes against the Palestinians) perhaps?

good point. My only concern would be what kind of government would take Israel's place. But if a meh government takes the place of the fucking Israeli government I'm all for that.

Fuck the apartheid for sure.

Hitler
Pogroms
Teutonic Knights
Catholic Church
Romans

you fucking idiot

yeah if apartheid is ended palestine would go back to being a member of the ottoman empire/britain. thats exactly what im saying. im not saying an ethnically diverse state without apartheid or colonialism ruling it.

Gee, I don't know, it's almost as if the terrorist group that mysteriously manages to pop up in every single Palestinian territory they pull out of also happens to state in their charter that they purpose is the extermination of all Jews

gee i wonder why they say that.

btw even fucking hamas corrects itself and says "not jews, zionists"

so this is your answer then yes?

you realize what a state without a clear defined national identity is right? an ethno-religious warzone where jews and christians and arab muslims are fighting for political and economic dominance. so what kind of identity would it be? it has to transcend ethnic and religious lines or its failed from the start

pisspiggrandad fuckoff

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I don't know, please enlighten me, oh wondrous totally-not-a-jew-hater

Stay mad Iraqi Nazi ripoff

oh yeah just like how palestine was before zionism, where christians muslims and jews killed each other right?

fucking retard. the arab israeli conflict is so ridiculously recent its not even funny. there was literally peace and solidarity in palestine between all religions before zionism fucked everything up and imperialism trashed the middle east

Probably has to do with the Zionists and their active campaign of state and terror against them. Not sure though.

dude fuck off you aren't a leftist. you are just some kid who happened to be born jewish so you are desperately trying to defend an apartheid state. its fucking pathetic and retarded. like i said study the history of the region before shitposting… but that doesnt matter you are going to defend them anyway right because you are the jewish equivilant of a nazi

Also, pls link to Hamas saying Zionists and not Jews lol
Gee, how do you think Israel should treat terrorist who are by definition opposed to their very existence as a state?

To reply, see my response above:
I'm not Jewish, I just don't happen to have Yasser Arafat's beatific face embroidered on flannel jam-jams, which I then cuddle into and fall asleep to toasty PLF dreams. Unlike you.

there was a hamas tv program where a kid said he wanted to grow up to be a fedayeen to kill the thieving jews and he was corrected by the host who said "not jews, we hate zionists"

the fact you think these groups exist "TO GET DA JEWS" is fucking retarded, you have no clue what israel and apartheid has done

kill yourself zionist shill

do you have any idea of how batshit retarded you actually sound?

Wow, you're right, that host is so charitable. How do you think Hamas or Iran would define "Zionist" if they came to militarily occupy Israel? Well, if you live in Israel and you're Jewish, you must support a Jewish state, right? So let's just kill all of those Zionists then, AKA every Jew in Israel.

it has nothing to do with being jewish. there is absolutely nothing wrong with being jewish.

zionism is a cancer and so are you, so move more goalposts and scapegoat your retarded nazi logic more to think anyone who disagrees with zionism wants to kill all the jews and is actually anti semetic.

you aren't a real communist, you are just an illiterate child

Gee, your Arafat jam-jams must be so snugly-wuggly. How do you ever get out of bed?

Fuck off bibi.

yeah man im sure thats the leftist position. "kill every jew in israel" and not crush zionism and destroy apartheid.

you got it bro

What is this "special" hate they get.

PS
I'm not a Jew
Truly a master of rhetoric and debate. Are you Lincoln reincarnated, by chance?

dude you are arguing with someone who un-ironically believes that israel exists because all the arab countries decided to purge all their jews out of the blue so they all heroically went to israel BEFORE THE ARAB ISRAELI WAR

I didn't say that was the leftist position, you said Hamas only wanted to kill ionists, and I asked how they would define Zionists if given the chance to kill them as they pleased. Do you think they would be really specific and forgiving in their definitions?

not buying that shit. no real leftist is dumb enough to support israel unless they were born jewish and think israel is a bastion against "the barbarous arabs"

fucking biggot racist nazi

so again, what the fuck type of governance and demographics would you like to see? all jews can stay? secular republican/social democratic government with freedom of religion? no ethno-nationalist arab islamist republic which is what all the Hamas fags want? state your case im not a zionist i've just never heard someone make a suggestion that didn't involve ethnic cleansing.

Or, they're just opposed to systematic genocide in the event of an invasion of Israel by Arab forces. I never said I didn't want a two state solution or some sort of change, all I said was that Israel is not incompatible with leftism. Unless you believe that in order for Israel to exist it HAS to involve "apartheid," then I don't see where the stick up your ass is coming from.

Intel IS better than AMD though.

I wonder why it seems to be that way?

SAGE AND REPORT
ZIONIST NAZI SHILL

THEY GENOCIDE OTHER PEOPLE FOR BANKER CAPITALISTS

THEY EXPAND THEIR FILTHY ZIO NATIONALIST STATE

THEY COLLABORATE WITH THE, GUESS WHO? NAZIS!

THEY HYPE THE FILTHY RELIGION AND RACISM

I wonder why so called "anti Nationalist" leftists always double down on supporting Jewish ethnonationalism as if Jews are a special and unique case?

"White" skin.
If it were reversed they would treat it like any other minority in the middle east.
Granted that may not be the case due to centuries of European oppression of Jews prior to them being dumped on Palestine.

Most Israelis aren't "white." They are however all colonists and invaders who need to go back.

K

How to manage to make it out of bed to shitpost when your Arafat-print jammies are so toasty and snug? Is your keyboard controlled by skullfucking an Israeli child, perchance?

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Okay, but by that same logic, so are Americans.

European zionists weren't living there you moron.

I don't want to deny people who grew up in Israel or whose ancestors moved there generations ago the right to live in a land they call home. In this sense, and only in this sense, I'm a zionist.

But I can not condone the fact that the Jewish population of this territory created their state by denying Palestinian refugees expelled in 1948 the right to return to their homeland, who are still banned from returning to this day. Nor can I condone that Israel wants to govern the West Bank in perpetuity while denying the non-Jewish population living there citizenship and the vote.

I'm fine with a Jewish presence in Palestine. What I object to is the apartheid state that Jewish presence has erected.

my parents and their parents parents have lived in palestine for thousands of years until they were expelled by their home by zionist invaders with their racist theocratic bs

fuckoff

DUDE WE'VE ALWAYS BEEN HERE LMAO

[shitpost]
Sunny Arafat?
I want a pair. He was just arrested.
[/shitpost]

Ok, so are you saying there were no Jews is "Palestine" before the Balfour Declaration? Like, really? You might as well post the same greentext about the Arabs that settled the Levant in the fifth-century because there Jews before there before they came too LMAO

*there were Jews there before they came too

There were Jews in Palestine before your even your ancestors came m8
I'm not defending the expulsion of Palestinians, but Jews have lived in the area pretty much continuously since the beginning of Judaism itself

m.youtube.com/watch?v=uu6Ond1ESq8

Germans also lived in Russia for all of recorded history until 1941. By that logic it justifies the Nazi invasion there.

Jew =/= Jew. A tiny handful of Jews lived there continuously, then a great mass of the immigrated right before the foundation of Israel. They had no connection to the land.

It is a colonial state of European Jewry.

Cuz Imperialism

I'm not justifying the settlement of Israel, that post was a response to people claiming that A. Jews had no historical claim to the area and/or B. that Jews somehow were interlopers in the area as compared to Arabs

If you're not justifying the settlement of Israel, kindly agree that it was founded as a colonial state and has no right to continue to exist in its current form, even if the Jews living in Israel now have a right to continue living there.

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Palestinians have a right to it, which includes the Jewish ones. European colonialists (who happen to belong to an ethnic group that originated) do not. The European colonialists are interlopers and they have no right to already owned land just because their ancestors lived there once. With that reasoning it's okay for Turks to invade and colonize Central Asia.

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What do you mean a colonial state, and what do you mean its current form?

Uh, maybe not the best example, since Turkic people already live in Central Asia lol

So what is your proposed solution to the situation we have now?

I meant specifically Turks from Turkey.

I'd say a decentralized federal state of all of Palestine, an end to easy Jewish immigration, a possibly a quota system like in Lebanon where certain positions or number of positions have to be filled by an Arab, a Jew, a Christian, etc. Most importantly ending the Apartheid and the whole idea of Palestine as a Jewish state.

Its sort of funny cause Turkish ethnonationalist call for a pan turkic state that encompasses central asia.

L M A O
Seriously?
"Israel is now 75% Jewish, what should we do to fix it's problems?"
"I know, let's treat it like a country where there's an almost equal mix of three totally different groups."
"Brilliant! Let's also destroy the entire intended purpose of the country and therefore the whole reason any Jews were there in the first place, that should make everything hunky dory, and it's super easily enforceable to boot!"
How do you remember to breathe with such retardation rattling around inside your head?

I said quotas like, not quotas that are a copy of. Even Iran has ethnic/religious quotas in their government/ Besides, non-Israel Palestinians were included, including the ones who left Palestine and can't come back, the ratio would drastically even out.
It's better than genociding all the Jews or a two state solution that no one is happy about. Enforceable or practical wasn't the point, I'm saying the ideal situation to end the conflict.
Rude and unnecessary tbh.

You're right, the retardation comment was a little much. At the same time, I was looking for something a little more realistic tbh

The most realistic scenario is Israel keeps doing what it's doing, increasing the settlement in the West Bank, and possibly eventually annexing the Palestinian territories, and when everyone else calls them out on it (without any real action) they'll keep playing the victim. And maybe 10 years in the future Israel gets into a regional war with Iran to leads to WWIII.

As long as Israel stays a Jewish state, there likely won't be an end to the conflict.

look the stinky capitalist zionazi fag exposed himself.