Do you think children should be allowed to take hormones?

That webm always makes me sad. ;~;

Well, why not?

You forgot mention about making bestiality legal.

Why is this image fucking enormous

I don't give a fuck what children take as long as they are not counter-revolutionary.

this for me too. weird glitch.

pottery

artist name?

spoiler that shit, at least

Really important issue that needs to be addressed to achieve FALC, no doubt

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This.

…But I do think kids should become adults before being allowed to make permanent, life altering decisions.

Tried to spoiler it, instead it turned out into giant image

no

this

pic related

It was blown up for me too as I spoilered it for you. No ban this time, but you'd better be on your best behavior comrade. {|*|[:^)

testing

Oh shit, ok. That explains it. That's pretty funny, actually.

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Lmao, I see you. I remembered you as I shared that webm, too.

Do you think children should be allowed to remove their limbs??????

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Well, considering that human society is based on laws - which are a social construct but are necessary - you'd have to be consequential in terms of giving kids more rights and self-determination.

Minors are naturally restricted in terms of freedom of contract, culpableness and maturity. So, if you decide to allow children to take hormones, you'd have to consequential and give them the right to vote, take drugs, alcohol, do business, etc.

The question is just badly phrased. If children are allowed to take hormones is completely irrelevant - the question is does a minor have the same personal rights as a adult and the answer must be no.

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W r adutls so mean ?
this is descremintry

apples-and-oranges comparison

Notice how it is always the boys who have to dress up as girls and never the other way around.

This is intentional.

Your son wants to have a dick grown out of his forehead. Who are you to stop him????

Your daughter asks you for another line of coke. There is no such thing as free will. You lay down another line.

I would say that he's an innovator bringing science to new heights.

When girls act like boys and say they want to be boys, they're called 'tomboys' and treated indulgently. The way people overreact to the opposite phenomenon is down to old traditions of boys being more important and needing more attention.

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Children don't know what they want and are easily influenced, that's why we have specific laws in place to protect them from themselves and predatory influences.
Of course they shouldn't be allowed to take hormones.

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ITT: People who know nothing about transsexualism acting like they are doctors and experts in the field.

lmao

its mostly just Holla Forums trying to get a rise out of Holla Forums while all of my comrades respond justly and rightfully with "who gives a fuck idpol reeeeeeeee"

No

This is entirely unnatural, and I'm sure this causes a shitfest in the endocrine system

I dont think there are very many instances of conducting hormone replacement on a child, so God know's the medical implications for this person 20, 30 years down the line

Children can't smoke or drink, so why should we pump them full of hormones?

Proles can't own the means of production, wo why should we let them have a dictatorship?

Wow. I think deep down some parents would rather have a trans-"heterosexual" child than a cis-homosexual child

It ended really poorly the first time it was attempted.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer

Do you actually have a source on this or are you just pulling shit out of your ass?

Everyone has hormones in them. HRT simply changes which primary sex hormone is in the body.

Considering this directly involves drastic and irreversible changes to children's physical and mental well-being, I'd say it matters plenty.

now you gone and did it

No. Not until their brains are fully developed. I don't want kids to smoke and drink before the age of 18.

Let's look at suicide rates.
journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

That's not really a fitting "study", though. It started out with a medical accident & ended with some fucked up dude making up his own rules about psychological study(which tbf is a lot of psychology).

None of it was voluntary for the child, either. It also has nothing to do with trans sexuality.

Just because a child thinks that something is a good idea before they are developed and mature enough to understand the implications doesn't mean they should be indulged.
This is basic parenting 101.

>and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group.

Nice reading comprehension, Nazi.

As you can tell from my diction, I do not have a source, and I am speculating.

I am trying to do research on the matter, but the matter already seems like it would cause a great deal of confusion within the body. It's not often that the body is perfectly accommodating to foreign entities making chances to it. There's almost always a side-effect

For

I don't think medical implications matter that much. It's the fact that when your child hasn't even reached puberty, it is highly incapable of making decisions regarding his sexuality. We are not talking about gender roles who are a social construct, we are talking about biological changes of a kid that doesn't even know how sexual arousal feels like.

I assume you guys all went through puberty (Anarcho-Nihilists maybe didn't). How secure of your own sexuality were you? Would you assume that your 13 year old self would have been entirely capable of making such a drastic decision?

The National Geographic cover is disgusting besides the fact it is IdPol D&C.

Money is perhaps one of the greatest proponents for the gender change surgery. He also experimented on children. Cool!

waltheyer.typepad.com/blog/2013/11/20-regret-changing-genders-over-40attempt-suicide-and-even-after-surgery-a-large-number-remain-traum.html

Quick, you're fighting in the revolution against porky! Your 6 year old daughter comes up to you and says she wants to do a suicide bombing. Do you respect her wishes or betray the cause???

lele

I vote we should dissect & study the Nazi. See what makes it tick. Any seconds?

Hormone therapy is not permanent as a child. Most of the time, children going into their teens when they come out go on hormone blockers, which has no lasting effects.

Hormone therapy is not a cosmetic choice, it's a treatment for dysphoria. Even when it was classified as a disorder in the DSM-5, they were still treating it with hormone therapy.

thats for cowards, i raised you better you little shit

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Wow I guess to make everything even we should start killing all the cisgenders at 30 too or else that's not idpol socialism

If a kid engage in a sexual activity it's literally the worst thing ever, kids don't know anything and can't consent to anything.
But if a kid wants to chop his dick, take hormones and become a literal aberration then it's totally fine, he definitely knows what he's doing.

Yeah, fuck you bunch of hypocrites.

quote is not edit lol

Literally no one in this thread has said anything about that.

No and largely cause it makes you faggots so salty.

I already posted this, lmao

Come again?
Anyway, I personally think it's best that people are adults before making such decisions about their sexuality, or messing with their puberty in any way. Or forced to take medication that isn't immediately medically necessary to live.

I was forced to be on anti-depressants/anti-psychotics even, as a teen. I sure would've liked to have been able to say no to that. Once I was out of those hospitals, I refused to take them. But I always wondered if they'd have long-lasting effects. They sure aggravated my OCD tendencies, but that's faded over time.

But I'm also no doctor & I don't have kids.

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I really don't think such a thread should be anchored.

You're insane, user.

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I'm not a determinist. But I also think the idea of having to wait for an appropritate time to exercise free will undermines it as a concept.

Fair and pertinent point. But three fucking years old? No. Just fucking no. Especially as the same people who encourage it from the age of three are the same people who deny gender is anything more than a social construct. Hormone therapy should be an absolutly last resort and counciling should be mandatory first. Trans are statistically MUCH more likely to suicide or develop mental health issues AFTER changing. I suspect in a lot of cases there is a deeper underlying unhappiness and this is seen by some as a drastic action that will alleviate their suffering. It is no panacea though, evidenced by the increased instances of suicide it post-op.

They should be encouraged to freely take their own lives as soon as possible, after killing their faggot 'parents' in their sleep and setting a good, strong fire to burn the house/apartment block down to cinders.

Blasphemer.

so if a kid wills that he should eat candy every meal and spend his college savings on whatever crap he saw on TV that afternoon we should indulge him because of free will?

Most tranies who kill themselves do it because they don't pass and people give them shit for it. Also, being in the wrong body for years takes a heavy psychological toll on you (a lot of trans people have PTSD).
psycnet.apa.org/journals/pro/43/5/468

Here's a study which shows that HRT provides improved mental health in transseuxals.
tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/19359705.2011.581195

The main risk that I know of is breast cancer since HRT essentially puts you through accelerated puberty when taken at a later age. For instance, my endocrinologist doesn't allow me to smoke tobacco because it would exponentially increase the pre existing risk I have for it.

Source: Am MtF transsexual who started HRT at 16 (4 years ago). Several endocrinologists sat me down at the time and went over all of the possible side effects and risks with me.

The child doesn't need to make the decision. The doctor does after evaluating the child based on a set of criteria looking for symptoms of gender dysphoria.

I started at 16 (20 now) and I turned out just fine. I look identical to a cis woman, have a functional vagina, a boyfriend, and am doing well at university where no one is aware of the fact that I am trans.

The treatment is medically necessary. Being in the wrong body with biochemistry that does not match ones brain mapping can cause permanent damage to an individual.

And here we are back at the issue of consent. Can a three year old make an informed choice? Do they have any comprehension of the ramifications of taking their course they are now being encouraged to? I mean most research shows that even teens decision making isn't shit hot. A child obviously much less so.

Holla Forums / Holla Forums

Good to know my trolling on twitter is paying out dividends

No, because free will doesn't exist. It's not my duty to care for this hypothetical kid. And babying them is no solution. If the child does not suffer any conseqences for their own actions (and I think you're conflating them quite a lot here with sugar and an actual medical procedure) then they will never learn and be just as spoiled as before.

You are massively overestimating empirical value of psychoanalysis and psychology. All the doctor would do is looking into a crystal ball.

Wait, but does your boyfriend know that you were born as a boy? No bully, just curious how well do the hormones work.

you know in another time and place medicating kids from 5 with the intention of mutilating them would not be considered conducive to a healthy society.

The point isn't to mutilate them. The point is to give them a chance to live beyond 30. Although i do find it hard to understand how would a doctor or parent know if their child really needs the treatment.

You know, I'd like to see someone compare someone with BIID to a transsexual to their face. It'd be hilarious to watch someone without medical experience talk about medicine.

He's mentally ill so of course he's lying. Everyone at his school know she's a trannie and just don't mention it because it would be unPC to do so. Also tranny "vagina" is just a gaping wound that has no way to get wet so of course his boyfriend has noticed that disgusting inverted dick isn't a vagina.

Except those kids will get a 40% risk of suicide thanks to this

If you think people killing themselves because of a decision they made at an early age while highly influence by their parents its alright then you have some fucked up priorities

Candy?

Why am I not surprised?

Sure, but that doesn't mean that a child can just start HRT on a whim without extensive evaluation and therapy. It took me a year from the time I came out to my parents before I was able to get on HRT, and 8 psychotherapy sessions/2 endocrinology appointments. Also had to drive 2 hours to (big city near where I lived in the USA) to go to a special gender clinic.

lol, that's one way to look at it I guess. I kind of hate hons (unpassing trannies) so even though I think you're a piece of shit for being a nazi, I can see why hons get bullied. There is a reason I don't tell people I am trans.

lmao. I had an SJW at my school tell me not to comment on trans issues because I wasn't trans myself. Pretty sure no one knows fam.

No. I have all the parts of a cis vagina with a few differences in where sensation is located.

Nope, get soaking wet when aroused.

He didn't know for the first 8 months of us dating, but I decided to tell him later since I eventually wanted to be totally open with him about my past. He actually took it really well, but he was extremely surprised at first.

There's a class of drug that shows potential for treating dysmorphia. It just reeks of agenda to me that a sex change is now being pushed as the default treatment for anyone presenting with dysmorphia. Especially as kids are very easily influenced. I'm not saying they don't know their minds but to start them down this path at a young age makes them much more likely to see it through.

Taking of my cynical asshole Holla Forums hat for a second, I can see where you're coming from. I just think that this should be an absolute last resort, after loads of talking therapy, possibly some drug treatment.

The way it us currently being branded is almost exclusively positive. Easily led kids may think the life looks glamorous and exciting and from what I've seen the issues are downplayed.

There is no point in arguing with a tranny. Especially about the importance of allowing kids to have their dicks cut off and get pumped full of drugs.

Just like there is no point in arguing with a jew to be well less jewish

We can disagree about what's medically necessary. But what you've described(if we're tlaking about children) does not seem particularly traumatic imo & warranting immediate addressing. Should wait until an adult.

I don't mind about adults. It's just when it's done on children that I think should be avoided. But at the same time, it's a case by case basis & if it makes a 16 year old happier & there's low future risk, that's life, I guess. None of us really have all the answers.

They shouldn't call it "sex change", thats fake advertising

Getting a sex change means you are getting the sex organs and anatomy of the opposite sex but what you are really getting is a fake simulation of that like a inside-out penis thats basically a hole resembling a vagina or an enlarged clitoris with a piece of plastic and a manual pump that needs a lot of imagination to pass as a penis

Yet somehow this is "sex change"

That exactly what you've been attempting to do, this entire thread, lmao.

It's funny, because that's the same response most have to arguing with a Nazi.

I want to sympathize with and help these people, because I'm no stranger to self-loathing and I can only imagine how awful it must be to feel you have the wrong body. But at the same time, I haven't read anything that convinced me it isn't apotemnophilia.

What do you think, now?

Even if we are going to say that this apple isn't a good enough orange…let's consider what you are saying. These people who desire to cut off their body parts…are no doubt going to try and do just that. Some will put their arms under a moving tire to have the bones crushes, easier to slice through, or will take a shotgun to blast it off. In cases like these, especially when we're not going to be able to give them psychic therapy all the time (read: supervise them) it may be ethical and even safer to do a quick, and clean surgery.

There is no point arguing with anyone, really.
Argument only creates resistance and reinforces convictions as an ego defense mechanism, people don't like to consider the path they've invested time and energy into could have any faults.
This is why we have so many cancerous ideologies these days, they are literally feeding off each other in a vicious reactionary circle.

Agreed. Arguing can make someone retreat back even deeper into their own, "comfy" ideology.

You told your boyfriend after 8 months? I'm sorry, that's a little fucked.

That would be the mirror

Is the same with people who do body transformation like the tiger man: they had an image of themselves in a new body that was a complete fantasy and once they see how that fantasy drove them to become monsters after irreversible surgery they commit suicide because they can't live with themselves anymore

Blaming other people not faking it for them have to be the most retarded argument you could make

Go spread your megacorp propaganda somewhere else fascist

If the procedure makes them far more likely to commit suicide then it was all for nothing

Better let them kill themselves and not waste precious resources into whats essentially a problem of the first world bourgeois when hundreds of millions still starve

Why don't you try living with the body and hormonal system of the opposite sex for 16 years, and then we can talk about what is medically necessary.

You know what's also fucked? When you tell someone and they react badly and spread that information to everyone around you, causing you to experience permanent discrimination for the rest of the time you spend in that area.
transequality.org/issues/non-discrimination-laws

I need to look out for myself first and foremost. I had to be fairly sure he would be responsible with that information and would keep it to themselves. Besides, why do I have to inform my bf, or anyone for that matter, of my medical history?

see
Also, pic related

Rather like with transexuality, mutilation isn't a real treatment. 30% of the poor bastards who do receive an amputation aren't cured, much like many transexuals persist with gender dysphoria even after SRS.

I know that it sucks that radical surgery is the closest thing to treatment we currently have for both of them, but I'm not sure it is preferrable to no treatment, frankly. The only metric we have for success here is suicide rates, which shows just how fucked these people are.

Are you serious? thats all you did before taking the huge life changing decision to undergo radical body transformation surgery?

People go to more sessions just for mild anger management, let alone serious shit like anxiety disorders or depression

Riiiiiight, look if I were you I would sue the fuck of the guys who told you that. They made bank on your ass

That's not a nice thing to do

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Yeah! Fuck it! Why would the person you're involved romantically and presumably sexually possibly have any right to know your medical history?

Did you try taking testosterone before going through all this shit?

Oh wait you said you went to just 8 sessions with a shrink, you clearly didn't try any of the myriad of more simple solutions and instead decided to go full-on insane

Look, it's your choice. Just like I can't speak for you, you shouldn't be able to speak for every child out there.

All right Mr. Doctor, tell me what is the proper number of sessions based on your clearly thought out method of treating transsexualism.

Never been treated for anything like that, but I know people who have and I believe that they were treated prior to 8 sessions.

lmao. Have you ever even seen a transgender vagina before or are you just making things up?

Didn't know you cared so much about my private medical history.

"more simple solutions" my ass. Show me any evidence of effective treatment for gender dysphoria that isn't just transition.

Goddamn dude. That's too much.

Yeah! Fuck it! It's much less risky to build a relationship on a foundation of deception!

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Tbh, I have sympathy for them in this regard. I would want to know before dating someone. But how would they reasonably go about it? I'm genuinely interested & sympathetic to someone in this situation.

again, rude.
Logical thought/"normalcy" is a spook :^) Definitely subjective, imo.

Years maybe? this is some complex irreversible shit, is only common sense to assume that just 8 sessions of less than an hour aren't enough to determine if you want to go ahead with something you wont be able to come back from

But then again you have laws now that say a shrink can't tell a patient to not undergo sex body transformation all thanks to the bourgeois lobby of the millionaire plastic surgeons who wouldn't want to lose a cash cow to psychology

Of course they don't give a shit if their patients end up killing themselves, they are too busy counting their millions to care

If you could cure depression and anxiety in 8 sessions there wouldn't be antidepressants nor 500 millions people worldwide with those disorders

BTW my bad about the suing part: you actually can't sue the hacks who cut down your dick, thats also illegal

Again you can talk the trans lobbyists for that, because capitalism

That would be a couple weeks, you said 8 months

Thats long-term

More than 8 sessions would be a start

Also you didn't answer if you even tried to treat your hormonal imbalance. I know guys with low testosterone who take pills so to avoid things like man-boobs and yet you apparently didn't even try that even tho your entire body was "wrong"

Normalcy depends on where you live, how you were brought up and who you were brought up with in my opinion.

Typo, my bad

Agreed; it's subjective.

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Which would that be?

I'm fairly sure the procedure lowers the suicide rate. It's still high, but lower.

Gonna need a source for that

Well, I didn't know I was attracted to girls until puberty so the answer is no. The neo-left is batshit insane and antiscience. They have to be lined up against the wall at all costs.

reddit.com/r/TiADiscussion/comments/2yltjj/does_transitioning_reduce_the_risk_of_suicide_in/

lizdaybyday.wordpress.com/2015/01/02/the-myth-of-post-op-regret-and-suicidality/

an anti-psychotic. I forget the name but go ask Holla Forums.

Can I get an unbiased source? I don't listen to crazy guys who want to de-gay people with a car battery so why should I listen to a tranny who quotes a study from a fake-socialist country like sweden where megacorps run rampant and force people to use their emoney? let alone their gestapo-grade secret intelligence service nobody talks about

What a yuuuge amount of time. Great to hear you're allready generalizing your own experience hon.

Are you implying you have? That's an epistemic impossibility. You have only ever lived in your body, with your brains, it is your only point of reference.

At best you can claim that there was something wrong that needed to be fixed. Stupid nonsense like this is why people don't take you seriously.

I could ask the same of you. The only places where I have read that SRS increases their suicide rates where in imageboards.

who is this dude?