Sup comr8s, I'm wondering what would be the best aproach to convincing liberals that socialism =/= bolshevik tyrany...

Sup comr8s, I'm wondering what would be the best aproach to convincing liberals that socialism =/= bolshevik tyrany? I live in a post-socialist country, so the red scare is real here. I'm thinking of some Wolff videos but which one?
Any tips or tricks?

Other urls found in this thread:


Instead of talking about how Lenin and Stalin were right, talk about how Kropotkin was right.

[muffled Catalonia in the distance]


This. Bolshevik Tyranny and the despotism of the masses is quite literally the entire point of Communism. Reformist utopians and the so-called libertarians have nothing to provide towards this movement.


The DotP is democracy in it's literal form. All these pearl clutching libs need to read a book.


The point made was that any meaningful Communism ultimately boils down to the most ruthless treatment of the enemy imaginable. The destruction of the old repressive organs and their being replaced by new antibourgeois instruments of domination. This is a war, not a game. And every anarchist knows it, pretty much all of them now have conceded the need for armed repression of the old society's advocates in some form of another. That's why "libertarianism" is an incoherent, ultimately bourgeois concept. Anarchism is all pretty words and slogans, no libertarian system has ever been put into practice on this planet.

And the point of any meaningful revolution is long term stability, merely killing the enemy and replacing them with antibourgeois isnt enough, after 40-100 years things change dramatically and thus a new long term system must be formed, the initial cleanup is just the start

shut americans without a clue

*shut up

Ok, then my question is why should I trust a handful of bureaucrats to decide what is the right way to aproach this? Implementing antibourgeois organs with almost unlimited power is a recipe for disaster as any critique that challenges dogma is immediately shut down as bourgeois and the person behind is persecuted. Historically speaking this has lead to power hungry backstabing in the ruling workers party. Putting my trust into a supposedly infallable and all knowing organ of bureaucrats is hard since as time progresses their opinions shift.

Don't take me for some common Stalinist weenie, I'm not blind to the problems here. The issue of maintaining an efficient, egalitarian Communism alongside actually accomplishing a revolution at all is the ultimate problem for all those who despise the present state of things. Over-emphasizing the former problem is just as bad as doing the same with the latter. Without centralism of action all revolutions die within a matter of several years. Bolshevism may have doomed itself with it's ruthlessness towards dissent, but it also saved itself at least for a while.

I'm no pessimist, I've got my own utopian solutions for this. But this thread isn't the place to work out details of organization. Suffice it to say I see a blend of elective-executive monarchy and legislative-judicial democracy as a compromise between centralism and antibureacratism.

Oh, we've got a clue. We've been forced to live our whole lives under the purest bourgeois dictatorship that's ever existed. No other society in history has been so totally dominated by the logic of capital. Sheltered fools like yourself will never come to hate Americanism like an American.

But socialism = Bolshevik tyranny (somehow).

Stalinism =/= Bolshevik tyranny.

Stalin literally killed the Bolsheviks.

Describe the ideal system avoiding any of the associated scare words. Pretend like it's this new idea you came up with on your own and haven't quite figured out. Don't ever tell them you're a socialist. Let them adopt the ideas, take them in and identify with them and later on find out for themselves they are socialists.

Literally wtf I love communism now.

Never use the words, just descriptions. Feel free to start with entryist stuff like muh coops, it works like charm.
Yall niggas need more bookchin

You need a little more Žižek in your life, товарищ.
Point out that capitalism is just economic system, it has little to do with their civil rights. Show them that ukraine, even after embracing capitalism, did lived in pretty-much same dictatorship, but without the benefits of easily accessible work, cheap food, housing and so on.
Show them that people like Dubcek tried to reform CSSR to be more democratic, but the attempt was destroyed by Moscow.
After this, blame everything on corruption. I assume that all post socialist countries are pretty much same, governed by corrupt populists, so point out that corruption was the main problem of your country back then as is today.
Do make jokes about a lot jokes CCCP, don't deny that it was dictatorship, but don't deny either that communism is terror. Terror brought by working people on the ruling class for letting them starve and live in misery for too long. Point out that violent approach of people in Romania helped them to cut down the corruption.
What you want is that they'd understand that "communism" is the act when working class fight against the ruling class, you don't need them to start studying theory (yet).

yea, wolff videos are good.. but maybe talk about books, try get them to read left wing books that do not support the USSR and such.

start with some good old revisonism


get'em read the Homage to Catalonia

instant book that will convert a naive liberal to democratic socialism, or at least that's how I got interested to anti-liberal left

Start by convincing them how bolsheviks weren't tyrants and why they did what they did to win the war and help the urban worker, which they did.

what if I like all three?

how can I request a filter for 'state capitalism'


Mod feedback sticky maybe?

catalonia's independence movement is a burgeous movement that will not benefit the working class in any way.


im so fukken fed up with this shit nowadays i fucking confused this crap

i will be in the gulag if anyone needs me

lol, and how exactly do you get them to read that?

Democracy at Work is a much more approachable book.