Reaching out

I'm from the right and I come in peace.

I want to get out of my bubble and try to expand my political horizons. So I ask you if you can explain to me why do you think your ideology is right, and how it is better than the system we currently have, and where I can get more info about it.

Thanks in advance.

Other urls found in this thread:'s_Rebellion#Backlash

All the wealth that could be used to make life better for the community goes to champagne and child prostitutes and solid gold toilet seats and such. This is all kept in place by a global network of violence. That needs to stop.

Ultimately automation will leave enough people unemployed that the economy becomes absolute trash. Don't believe the fedora tipping memelords who will try and convince you that automation will create even close to the amount of jobs it replaces, because it won't.

if you're looking for basic books and such look at this thread

Don't listen to tankies, nazbols and USSR apologists we have here
libertarian socialism is the way, read bookchin
You ever read 1984 and Animal Farm and thought they were anti-socialist works? Wrong. Orwell was a libertarian socialist. He was just against stalinism/authoritarian socialism of any kind

also, socialism means that the same people who work in the factory own it, it has nothing to do with welfare gibmedats or keynesianism

Party politics creates apathic citizens and content parties. Eventually there will be a devide that gets used by populists. Populism can never works as it isnt able to create a stable movement aimed at freeing humans.

So we need to repolitize the community and thus empower the individual. A politicised community is the best resistance against the strongest weapon of the establishment - nationalism -, as it offers a real community that can is self strengthening and doesnt need to be perpetuated by mass propaganda.

Liberatory technology used in accordance with coherent ethics will be able to underpin this change economically.

Read Bookchin, praise communalism and watch this:

There was a NazBol who recommended reading Bookchin in other thread.

I agree that inequality is not pretty, but I view these things a byproducts of a system whose benefits outweight these things.

You have a point that in the future a vast amount of people will be essentially useless when compared to other people. I suppose it is an unfair world we live in, when some people are intrinsically worth more to the community than others, but that has always been the reality to some degree. I don't have a solution for this problem at hand, but I would like to hear yours.

thanks, I'll have a look

I got to like 30 minutes in the video, but it feels to me too simplistic and a bit manipulative, I think it's because the orator speaks in a very biased way. For example, he was criticizing a capitalistic economy in the fact that a worker never gets to take home a salary as much as he produces (since he has to produce a surplus, which stays with the boss/company). I fail to see how this is unfair, and how is there anything wrong with that, however the orator is very sarcastic when making these statements, as if we should take the wrongness of it at face value. I might give it a try later on.

Never seen him as much more than that.
One of the things that puzzle me is how are the people who create the system are rewarded? The owner of the factory, or the enterprise, had to invest time and effort coming up with it.

I'll have a look

TL;DR: Capitalism is a shit, fascism is an extension of capitalism, the only answer is to overcome it through a socialist revolution

Benefits like what

What benefits are those and why can't we also have them in a system which doesn't feature such staggering inequality?

I believe you can, and I think we'll move to a different system sooner or later, I just haven't heard so far of an alternative which appeals to me, and that I think would work. So far I believe massive inequality should be resolved within a capitalist system.

It's hard to say "these benefits exist and would only exist in a capitalist system", I suppose my belief is that capitalism gives a lot of benefits for being productive, while giving some punishments for not being so productive. It encourages cooperation through competition, and it creates a hierarchy of productive individuals.

How does left doctrine deal with:

-The need for European races to be separate from lesser races and the need for cultural autonomy including positive eugenics
-That class is racial internal stratification along cognitive ability
-The need to constrain lesser races from access to European technology including the hydrocarbon economy which promises unlimited population growth and thereby ecological disaster

Race as you think they are do not exist and biological determinism is ideology filled pseudoscience. When you want to explain how and why a group of people live like they do you need to look at their material conditions

You are fucking spooked m8

The current system is destroying the climate. This will have horrific consequences. Consider not only flooding, but also massive migration as a consequence of much of Africa becoming uninhabitable. This may destroy civilization or at least lead to horrible social upheaval.
Furthermore, automation of labor under capitalism is a recipe for dystopia. What happens when nearly all labor can be automated, but the robots are private property of a few people? Do you think these elites will just freely share their production? Or will they hoard it and let the now economically useless masses starve or life in abject poverty?
This is on top of all the injustices of capitalism that already exist today. I could tolerate that if it would lead to a better future, but we are faced with a system that mistreats most of humanity in the short term and will likely get us all killed in the long term.

Yeah all rich people aren't smart and all poor people aren't dumb. You are also a fucking prole.

Seconding this

No, genetic determination is so clear that there is now a blood test for Autism Level. These alleles are a part of race.

So left doctrines do not respect the fact that civilizations have a biologically determined class system, to which there is individual mobility (IQ of offspring tends toward the mean).

Intelligence quotient. Such a wordfilter is telling about the ideology.

How does that myth get perpetuated? It is plainly false, an inversion of reality. If anything, the less an individual produces the more he makes. The people who produce everything are only ever reimbursed a small fraction of the value that their labor creates. Most of it goes to his bosses, the middle men, the bankers, and those individuals who claim ownership over the things he needs.

That is the very problem that socialism seeks to resolve. The people who make things must control those things if they are to make the world better.

In before more autistic pol pseudo science Aryan superscience.

get real.

Don't exactly disagree there, maybe on the details and the extent. I don't see what capitalism has anything to do with it though. Or put another way, how would your specific system solve this issue?

You are right that automation puts pressure on the balance of power between workers and "the elites", but we dealt with this already in the past. Many jobs that existed in the past do not exist today. But you might be right, that ultimately 99% of the people will be obsolete (at the extreme, everyone will be, if we can create a supra-human AI). I don't think it is necessary to plan already for that distant future though - we can look at the immediate inventions and figure out ways that keep people productive, through retraining, education, etc.

When I mean "productive" I mean not just products and services, but systems as well. The company owner doesn't produce anything, but he came up with and maintain the system that allows the company to operate.

He already explained why producing a surplus that is not paid for one source of tension in society. That is not taking it at face value. If you look at the history of labor strikes, you'll see that this has been true for a long time.

I'm more real than the evidence for race

How do you explain black American failure? class?

If by "dealt with" you mean "transported unneeded workers to colonies" or "violently repressed obsolete workers with police first and then military" then yeah sure it was "dealt with"

Capitalism pursues profits at any cost. It will keep burning fossil fuels until it's no longer profitable. It has not produced anywhere near the amount of investments in alternate energy as would be required to quickly phase out the destructive sources were are using. A system which would not care about the short-term profits of fossil fuels would simply have started to transition to the alternatives the moment it became clear what catastrophe we were causing. Socialism would simply allocate resources and labor according to the need for them; no one would have a vested interest in keeping the use of fossil fuels going.
I think you're underestimating the changes ahead. Not only will simple jobs like truck drivers disappear entirely soon, but even more advanced jobs are at risk due to the development of better computers and AI. Consider this video: Capitalism cannot function without human workers who buy back the products of their own labor with their wages. The system is bound to die, the question is who will benefit; humanity as a whole or the elite who owns the means of production.

So basically creatig useless jobs to have some kind of redistribution of wealth so proles can carry on consuming. It is a way to keep the system working similar to the socdem solution.
If the workers commonly own the product of the factories, you will not need useless jobs/welfare state to answer to the contradictions of capitalism. So, a lot of jobs will disappear, but instead, people will actually be able to choose what they want to work on. (I don't have to choose my profession on whether or not I will be able to afford X, or if I am truly interested in a profession, I can practice it even if noone is hiring, I am truly free)

Centuries of slavery followed by another century of economic exploitation and exclusion, and then concentrated efforts by both wings of the ruling class to keep them at once dependant and under control via the illusion of political progress on one side and covert efforts on the other to disrupt their communities with cheap and addictive drugs made expressly for that purpose. That's the short version, saying nothing about how affirmative action is both a sop and a trap, lifting up the most able from their communities while leaving the rest to stagnate, both co-opting a potential black intellectuals and preventing them from being able to actually do anything about the awful conditions they escaped.

That's fancy. They've had 60 years of equal opportunity. During this time, they've achieved according to their I-Q distribution. Citing Democrat clientelism is an intellectual weakness.

With their absolutely fucked economic and cultural base?
Cling to the autism level meme and biological determinism is intellectual weakness. You are ignoring hard material facts and going with pseudoscience.

Read The Ego and It's Own (literally only bias recommending that book, feel free to skip it), then read Bookchin, then read The Conquest of Bread and then if you want something OG you can read Marx but he's pretty dated now.

This is the haggard old failed class analysis. The racial analysis is elegant and correct.

It appears there are none here prepared to deal with human biology. The leftist class analogy is dysgenic within and among the races. You want to take the intolerable levels of racial violence in America and Europe and amplify it. The deadliest consequence of capitalism and late empire is dysgenics. To this the left's answer is to pile on even more dysgenic pressure through international solidarity and persecution of the 120 I-Q ruling class. Perhaps you might see why you are so hated and if allowed will come to present a mortal threat to mankind.

This explains why antifa is seemingly packed with skinny and unattractive men: these people know their weakness and instinctively seek the left in order to punish the stronger and prettier.

I had the impression that workers moved out of their own free will to colonies, but I could be wrong. Their emigration allowed for countries to develop, and ultimately you could argue that people were better off.

Not denying that the labor movement wasn't met with violence, but ultimately things turned out for the better for workers of the West.

well, you are right that capitalism failed in some ways, but in other ways capitalism has succeeded: look at Europe for example. An extremely densely populated continent with very little pollution. How do you integrate that with your view that "capitalism pursues profits at any cost"? Capitalism, together with government encouragement, has produced a lot of alternative sources of energy that could be used to tackle the crisis.
well I would argue that capitalism is a system that allows for that to happen, and with some oversight can be made effective.

>I think you're underestimating the changes ahead. Not only will simple jobs like truck drivers disappear entirely soon, but even more advanced jobs are at risk due to the development of better computers and AI. Consider this video:
I'm familiar with all this, I've done my fair share of courses in Machine Learning and AI.

I agree, which is why I believe things will balance themselves out. I believe that we will find a way of making capitalism work in the new century, just as we did in centuries before when factories replaced a lot of manual laborers.

I prefer the socdem solution. I fear giving too much power to workers can be catastrophic, as they are not the ones with the most knowledge about making decisions.

I feel this is a recipe for a lazy and uninterested society.

I think the problems of the african-americans have to do mostly with culture, although biology could play a role, but by no means a deterministic one.
is that real?


Also OP, you have issues that many right-wingers tend to address like immigration and empty, vapid culture, but here is the left-wing perspective:

Immigration has always been used for cheap labor. Whether it was the Irish in the 19th century to illegal immigrants now. They don't have to pay American wages to these people and thus it is beneficial for them to allow this to happen. The question of whether or not Trump will bring jobs back from Mexico doesn't matter because you can bet your ass that companies will opt for illegal immigrants coming in to use as cheap labor.

The Frankfurt School, despite the ridiculous gultural margism meme that many right-wingers like to throw around, has criticized capitalism for creating a "culture industry" that commodifies and destroys genuine culture, pacifies the masses and creates psychological needs that can only be fufilled by the consumption of capitalist products.

Have you ever heard of Bacon's Rebellion? It was a joint black and white revolt in the American colonies in the 1600s. The problems that led to this revolt was due to the rich and wealthy merchants buying up all of the surrounding land around the cities, forcing poor whites to move west where they were set upon by hostile Indians. The conditions were so bad that there was a major revolt with white settlers, indentured servants, and black slaves rebelling against a much smaller rich minority. It was not until the British monarchy sent reinforcements that the rebellion was crushed and even then the last group to lay down their arms consisted of both black and whites. It was from this rebellion that would inspire the many laws henceforth in the colonies that banned association between whites and blacks and increased conflict.

What is the point of my tirade? The racial animosity of the past was manufactured by the individuals in power to prevent themselves from being ousted by the combined forces of the people. The people need to be united in order to fight back against the machinations of the parasitic rich.'s_Rebellion#Backlash