Serious Question

Well I am for free movement of people, after certain conditions are satisfied.

Immigration under capitalist conditions has the effect of lowering wages and reducing social cohesion. Furthermore, capitalism promotes immigration as people are unable to stay in their countries that have been ruined by economic policies.

So therefore I am anti-immigration under the capitalist economic system.

Yes, No, Maybe. I don't know. Can you repeat the question?

I dislike Sunni muslims on principle. That being said refugees should always be accepted no matter their religion or race.

No. imo it doesn't accomplish anything except feeding fascism when we ought to have more important things to focus on in advanced capitalist countries, like developing the productive forces, lowering labor hours, and preserving elements of the welfare state.

Plus, I'm just burned out on the Muslims at this point. I don't fucking care about them any more. There's just no way you are going to get any sort of following guaranteeing more Muslim immigrants to anyone other than the liberal gentry.

being pro-immigration is meaningless, everyone should be anti-borders

I'm pretty sure that such a display of ignorance would imply a Holla Forums OP is merely trying to bait us.

IMO we should turn this thread into a thread on how fucking based sikhs are because holy shit sikhs are fucking based

Basically a religion about guaranteeing freedom of religion

It's the best form of accelerationism.
Let the Boujees deal with their "modern" world being ripped to shreds by the people whose land and resources and labor and blood and sweat and tears were forcibly extracted to build it.

The "Third World" is the grave of neoliberal Capital, and finally they are forced to lie in it.

I know that when you say this you're talking about raping women and bombing buildings.
We feminists have been taking measures for decades and decades and decades to fight the patriarchal structures of power that precipitate these acts of senseless desctruction, and we have been met with ridicule, anger, and blind rage from the same men who are now weeping in the face of mass rape.

The current anti-immigrant ideology of the Right is without a doubt one of the most cowardly political stances I've ever seen a group of people take.

Largely no.

Mass third world immigration to a mass consuming west is ecologically irresponsible.
Many of immigrants, especially from certain African and Middle Eastern regions also bring world views that are reactionary and not compatible with socialism, ecological sustainability or basic rights like freedom of speech.

We don't need accelerationism when it comes to climate change.
Let the west grey out and decrease in population. We don't need more consumers.

There is literally no way to stop capital from importing workers/"consumers" to keep muh GDP up unless we have a revolution.

No, we must put people above ideologies; these immigrants are bringing their reactionary views and devaluing wages of native workers. Yes I'm all for abolishing borders but that doesn't mean letting just any jackass live next door.

Got nothing wrong with first world immigrants though. It's only temporary though until after the revolution, then we can focus on weaning muslims off their religious bullshit and maybe convince them to use toilet paper, then when they're successfully reformed into socialist ideals they can come in.

Fuck no

And there are more way to revolution than mass immigration fueled accelerationism.
They will keep reproducing and keep crossing borders to escape misery, even if western standards of living were massively decreased people would still come over to escape war/poverty/famine/persecution.

The borders needs to be locked down and all food aid stopped or at least capped. Otherwise we will run into an overpopulation doomsday before we have any chance at global revolution. (At that point we will have apocalypse instead of revolution)

Sure. There is nothing wrong with being a Muslim.

Germany cucked itself. If Germany hadn't betrayed a country which was only trying to help it (the Soviet Union) we wouldn't be in this situation.

97% of them do not work.
express.co.uk/news/world/745147/million-immigrants-Germany-few-find-jobs-migrant-crisis/amp

mixed feelings here

they should just line up at the job factory
youtube.com/watch?v=siAbiwPyccg

Islam is a religion, not a nationality or ethnic group. All religion must be eliminated.
Nations are prisons for the lower classes to be contained in for easier manipulation by the international bourgeoisie, for which the borders are no obstacle since the rich can travel and set up camp anywhere that they like. Proletarians of the world are brothers and sisters. May nothing separate us. Capitalists and religion peddlers of all nations are our enemies.

Edgy atheist retardation

t. armchair revolutionary

Meanwhile christians and muslims in the developing world have been actively resisting capitalism since at least the 1970s.

Yes. Islamic Communism is the only way forward for the International Proletariat.

'Eco-anarchist' is a crypto-fascist with no class solidarity and no understanding of the causes of first world wealth and third world misery. (hint: they're related)
Not surprised but please help save mother earth from muh overpopulation and kill yourself now.

same for you kiddo.

Same guy amirite? Imma tell you a secret, just in case you didn't know: Leftist religious movements are only tolerated or encouraged as an opportunistic step in the direction of communism in places where proletarians are too culturally entrenched in religious madness for it to be possible to openly propagate true (anti-religious) communism. The revolution will not be satisfied until the last king is hanging from the guts of the last priest.

Make up your mind. What is it?

Socialism without ecology is just as disastrous in the long term as capitalism.

And it's obvious that the two are related. Which is why I support banning western corporations from exploiting the natural resources of the third world while at the same time helping them stabilize their populations so that they have a much easier time to build up infrastructure instead of suffering numerous problems related to (over)population pressures.
The solution is not letting half the world flood into the west and live the same wasteful destructive lifestyles. We need to dismantle capitalism, not feed it.

Actually, I was planning to, but then I realized I might as well do something useful. Fight for the cause and remind people why ecology is important.

Fuck off, reactionary.

I'd rather check to see if they're an ex-serial rapist or something instead of vetting them for certain spooks that aren't even ideological for most people.

...

we've been over this

Would you consider Buddhism as being religious, and if so: Should it too be eradicated?

there is no major religion in existence without terrorism

obviously a lot less of it here, but the US didn't do to chinkland what it did to sandland.

Fuck you econazi. You make me sick.

I never said that and it was not implied either.

Dude the 20th century is over. Crazed anti-religious sentiment is a communist cliche at this point, a borrowed relic from the reactionary enlightenment, angst against a feudal structure that no longer exists and hasn't existed for hundreds of years. Let it go.

Fuck off Sam Harris.

And you calling me a reactionary you little faggot? You're disgusting and not an anarchist.

that was uncalled for. That isn't even a muslim thing

Are you suggesting that the only reason Islam is worse than Buddhism is the role of Western imperialism? That's plain fucking ludicrous. Try reading the Quran sometime.

I favor the destruction of all borders

But while it's a clusterfuck, I don't blame the refugees for it. Most of them are just fleeing a war being fought by porkies and imperialists that they risk dying in if they stay.

it's a religious text idiot, they're vague as hell and you get views ranging the gamut from Sufist pacism to Wahhabist terrorism

you should know your dialectical materialism and not fall prey to idiot ideology over analysis of the material conditions that give rise to Islamic terrorism

SO the problem isn't Islam so much as it is certain interpretation of Islam which are given precedence depending the material conditions and the needs of capital. In other words it's not the cause of terrorism, just a rationalization for it (like many other things.)

I personally support immigration, if someone wants to immigrate they should be free to do so as long as they speak english that is, dont expect the world to bend over and help you

I am full open borders of Muslims and blacks into the west. They are the only ones with revolutionary potential. The white working class is afraid of the streets.

What is up with this typically liberal kneejerk reaction?

Since when is immediately abolishing the capitalist exploitation of developing countries equal to advocating more capitalism?
Do you even realize how "food aid" and other forms of "humanitarian" aid destroy local economies by flooding markets with subsidized western (and nowadays Chinese) goods?
Or how brain drain to western countries has made developing countries has fostered a culture of dependence that negatively affects said countries?

>A religion preaching maitri and ahimsa is exactly the same as one based on the preachings of a 6th century conqueror
I didn't expect to see this level of ignorance here

I'm fine with them. But I'm more pro un-fucking up the middle east so there doesn't have to be refugees in general.

ISIS, please immigrate to Canada. We have room. Do 9/11 here. Take out the porkies for us. ALLAHU AKBAR!

I'm not advocating repressing religious people that are willing to go along with a secular communist social dynamic and keep their religion to themselves but a religion is a competing dual power with its own power structures and agenda that will need to be eliminated eventually, preferably by discouraging/banning religious propaganda and outreach and the forced indoctrination of children and letting it just burn itself out naturally. There's simply no way to reconcile a rational, free society with holy scriptures containing arbitrary divine laws and codes of conduct. That shit was made up to support the sociopolitical cohesion of class domination, not communism. Also the sexual repression mechanism of most religions really fucks people up and makes them fetish-spooked and perverted.

I'm totally fine with immigration.

Also, as a Buddhist, reading these threads is weird.

Yes, we do have terrorists and feudal land-owners as an unfortunate part of our history. But these are against its core principles. Humans in general just happen to have a penchant for killing, it has little to do with religion most of the time.

That's why I'm not against Muslims regardless of whatever their millenia-old texts might say.

This is probably Holla Forums shitposting, but this attitude is still infinitely more defensible than the bleeding heart obsession with humanitarian indulgences.
It's still terrible though.

Yeah, that works great…

I suggest you pick up some Buddhist texts. It's hardly all "arbitrary". And that goes for plenty of religions.

Not every religion, branch or interpretation follows that recipe.

By "stabilizing their populations" you mean intentionally causing death from starvation to members of My Class you filthy ecofascist.

Or how brain drain to western countries has made developing countries has fostered a culture of dependence that negatively affects said countries?

I meant: prohibit forced indoctrination of religion by parents to children and abolition of the nuclear family so the children can make their own decisions.

Protecting borders means protecting private property. If people are going to be peaceable and productive then there's no justification for turning them away.

I don't support it, personally.

Immigrants are fucking scabs.

kys

...

Where did this idiotic meme come from. I've followed almost every big labor strike here for the last 10 years or so and I've never heard of immigrants being bussed in to break the strike. Do you know what a scab even refers to?

Obviously it's meant in the broader sense that the presence of immigrants undermines the position of Western labour.

you are worse than even trots

Poor, all the immigrants are gone. Now what's different?

*Poof*

Can you show me proof of that? I have never heard that before. I can't speak of the situation outside of burgerland but the presence of immigrants has not had any effect on the declining position of unions.

Also I've never seen scab used "the broader sense"

The surplus of labour is less and wages go up. It's supply and demand. Why do you think porky loves immigration so much?

migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-labour-market-effects-of-immigration/

Whenever someone says immigrants are scabs, this is what they mean. As you say, they are not literal scabs who are used to break strikes.

I would also add that if immigration stopped employers would have to provide much more training. At the moment they just import pre-trained workers, which disadvantages both local workers and the countries who suffer the brain-drain.

Why because you can't see it? The contemporary scab has the factory brought to their country where the int capitalist trains and enslaves them to debt. They're still scabs, they're still walking in to what used to be a union job.

Fuck you faggots

So you're blaming workers for working in factories that Western companies brought over in pursuit of profit?

Blaming them for their class is like saying water is wet, I'm describing what their role is.

quote;

Please pay attention to yourself.

There's being an anarchist, and there's being brain-dead. I chose the former, you chose the latter. Please reconsider.

I'm fine with first-worlders not because muh hwite skin but because their culture doesn't encourage or passive allow allahu ackbar.

It's not exclusive to them but c'mon you gotta admit that shit's nasty.

Calling one person with an eco-anarchist flag an ecofascist for saying rascist first worldist bullshit and euphemising the starvation of proles is not implying that caring about the environment is ecofascist. Lern 2 read m8.

shit-for-brains reactionary liberals like you, circle-a kid and the econazi ITT make me ashamed to be an anarchist.

I was blaming porky, dumb fuck. I even used the word porky.

No. Religion is our enemy.

Ahmed thinks you should go back to the kitchen. You lie in this grave too and gloat about how you dont.

...

Muslims tend to want one big thing of wanting to be a good Muslim and following the Quran (submission onto god) they have near no class consciousness and just want to give their 10% to charity and attend their community gatherings.

Against it, in general against immigration until capitalism has been overcome.

Also, immigration hurts the people that are immigrating. Creates a problem called "brain-drain". The people most likely to create meaningful change in their home countries, usually are the best educated as well, end up opting out for the easy path. They leave their country when they could have been working their to increase the means of production in their own country, a valuable step in transition to communism.

What separates us from Holla Forums is those of us who are anti-immigration are not so for racist reasons.

What if im against immigration because of the reason you stated AND due to being a racist?

All the fucking anarkiddies ITT, what a disgrace. Supporting the destabilisation of Europe for profit and authoritarian laws for the sake of ideological purity in regards to "wew no borders".
No, you shouldn't just let millions of people into your country because you're too spineless to enact economic reform because your population crisis caused by capitalism cannot be solved through any other way. When your population is tanking regardless of free childcare and even outright bribes then you need to address the cause, not import several million refugees to create a new crisis for the sake of solving an old one just to preserve your infantile liberal ideology. It's pretty fucking outrageous, really. Rather than the neolibs own up and admit they're a trainwreck of an ideology, they've instead opted to pretend to be humanitarians for the first time in their lives and call anyone opposing an influx of refugees a massive racist. Craven little shits as always. Gulag.

You might be more at home on Holla Forums. There are actually a lot of people within the alt-right movement that believe in "socialism", only that it be done in an ethnically homogeneous state.

To be honest though I find it kind of fucking stupid though.

Muslims are our comrades from working class, just opressed by fascist religion - just like we are.

We're anti-starting imperialist wars in Muslim countries which force people out, and we're against the economic system which forces people to go to the West to get rich.

I'm not opposed to people moving to Germany because they prefer living in Germany to living in Syria, and I would like laws around the world to be able to facilitate that. But I also want to change the economic and political conditions around the world so that it's truly a free choice and not a desperate escape.

I'm opposed to immigration regimes built around using immigrants to undercut wages while giving porky the right to move wherever it wants. But I'm in favor of genuinely open immigration.

Not really pro or anti. Refugees should certainly be welcome.

There are no difference if you're for racist reasons or not. Superstructure is not important. What's imprtant it's base: that being anti-immigration is separating local national working class from your comrades from working class from other countries, to prevent equalization of income.

Being anti immigration is purely ractionary, right wing attitude which only divides the working class.

You generalized by saying all of them, that's on you.
You know, hating western imperialism (even considering they have any class consciousness at all in major numbers which is laughable) doesn't suddenly turn you into a socialist. That's like saying ayncraps are anarchists because they hate the state. These people are not your friends, they don't know solidarity, they're not willing to fight for socialism. The enemy of my enemy is not my friend. I have no love for borders, no impediments to the revolution.
Don't give me that cultural relativism tumblrina crap, that's what helped spawn the SJW menace in the first place. Point is, they're backwoods, yes perhaps it's not their fault, but shuffling their problems over here won't help us fix them, it will only shove their problems off onto us.
Actually stop and think about the shit you're saying.
You should be ashamed of being a faggot hippie.

meant to quote
im in a hurry for college so disregard any mistakes/spelling etc.

True, but religion has a worryingly strong grip on them

Look how berserk loads of them go over criticism of Islam

I'm for it in a passive way, may sometimes defend inmigration on discussions with my family but don't care enough about the topic really.

But truly people who are militant anti-refugees are assholes, the winter meme in Holla Forums is sick

i'm not a fan of relligions and if it was up to be i would ban that primitive crap.
but here is the thing, you can't tell who's a muslim and who isn't, instead you'll go full racism (every brown person is muslim).
islam is a strawman for racism and we all know it.

thats why you said "muslims" and not "islam", you have a problem with them as people, not their ideology

Immigrants (what happened to calling them refugees?) are not working class since they do not work.

Look at Western proles and how berserk they get over football. People act retarded whatever stupid spook they believe in.

Nice try pol

You have immigrants working and you have leeches, just like in native population. Cherry on cake for thoses who works: they often pay taxes but do not benefit from the welfare.

...

He is right.
Read the article posted, 97 percent are unemployed in Germany.

I would agree on socdem fantasy lands like germqny, but in yhe americas, asia and oceania migrants do work

Not that working is good however

iirc there's red tape stopping a huge number of them from getting work.

Who is that in the top right?

Red tape like not being able to speak English and comitting petty crime?

No, like the globally accepted definition of the term, sarcasmospaz.

My comrade

Actually I didn't. Was just referring to that one guy. A lot of 'green anarchists' are actually ecofascists. Though some of them, I assume, are good people.
Nice baseless generalization there bro. I happen to have left wing secular muslim drinking buddies irl that would beg to differ.
Have you ever even talked to a refugee before?

Immigration restrictions only punish the proletariat since the bourgeoisie can live wherever they want as long as they have enough money. So if you support immigration restrictions you're not just being xenophobic, but specifically against proletarians.

Refugees are not directly given working permits in germany, they need to take integration and language courses for a couple of years first.

I accept your concession. Be sure to bring facts to back up your dumb claims next time.

It has several causes. (I'm speaking about Europe now)
1. Education: most of them are unskilled, just like proles in every state since the universe exists.
2. Unemployment already existed before they arrived. Since 2008, it's almost unbearable to see so many people not working beacuse they are rejected.
3. Racism: employers don't want to employ them. Just like in my country with gypsies.
4. States didn't do anything in order to integrate them into the wider society. Authoritarian politics are needed if they wanted it. For example: dispersing them in the country. I'm not arguing on what it surely needed, just telling that EU wasn't even trying. Today, it's working in some other way.

EU wanted immigration beacuse they wanted more consumers, not producers. Immigrants didn't steal jobs, they just raised consumer prices. Eu wanted to solve the 2008 crisis by generating demand. They could also do it by keynesian policies (being soced), but this is better for burgers (still being neoliberal).

Eh in my class in school people ethnically segregated themselves in blocs to sit in even though the enviroment was in no way discriminating.
Reducing all conflict to class struggle and economy is as shortsighted as only seeing it through a racial lense.
Ethnic tribalism is a form of social safety net people relie on when their family clans dont get shit done anymore in grave situations. How to compromise family clans and their young males or their supression is what all societies build on who want to advance beyond a latinamerican gangland or bheduin settlements. The nuclear family is such a fetish for western conservatives because it is the victory against the primal enviroment were you only trust your clan to generate wealth and feud with others- as you limit your offspring and relations out of free will as you trust the community because religious, ethnic, nationalist or ideologic memery convinced you to do so.
It speaks a lot about us thar most of the time you are only convinced in the face of enemies.
"Ey our racial/linguist group should stick together man" may be primitive and seem stupid in the face of lofty ideals but is foolproof and easy to comprehend, it gets only more delicate and abstract the further and bigger the collective you want to build an utopia for gets.
I understand how communists or the modern left in general wants to take that next step-the clan reduced to the nuclear family shall be reduced to the totally free individual fed by all and loyal to all in the world commune that provides to eachs need as parent to offspring does. But this is fragile. One oldfashioned sicillian or arab family clan will humilliate and exploit any worker community made of urbanite individuals as long as the latter dont use some totalitarian force to stop it.
You can see how the modern west crumbles as in europe ethnic homogenity breaks down into ethnic and religipus interest groups and clans which squabble for wealth and representation while in multicultural america the strong uniting spook of the american dream and protestant christianity is questioned due to its faults.
I dont want totalitarianism, I dont want to be the prey of clans or be forced to make my children end up in one as it makes life harsh so I stick to what seems to have worked in the past which is a certain degree of homogenity in a population.
Its no wonder that you posterboys see and saw themselves as "kurds" or "catalons" and not really world citizens.

Your source is the Express, a dogshit redtop. I saw it in an interview in response to some of the claims in the British press.

We already told you, your worldview is more at home on Holla Forums. Actually it's quite like their.
Seriously, you should consider being there, here we cannot agree on basic stuff like race, class, struggle. It's pointless.

Also, we heard your argument over 1000 times from different people. (Yours was quite well stated, in no way can anybody misinterpret it.)

Fine I fuck off if you show me some communist/utopian leftist who took family clans and their eroding effect on public life and property into account without having to resort to lwds or some orwellian youthpit to raise babbys in red.
Hoxha managed albania with its strong clanculture, but you guys see him more like a meme then a patron of a desirable society and his place could be taken by a rightwing equivalent like saddam too after all.

Solid plan.

The nuclear family is the basis of the authoritarian patriarchal society and the source of the emotional plague that infests the world. Read Wilhelm Reich.

Leftist interpretation of the eroding family is that the capitalist system is disintegrating it. We only say that you can organize communities on other basises, not just blood relations. Just like friendships can form between all kinds of people.

Communities can raise kids together. It's much better than nuclear family. I cannot compare it to tribes though. I think they are more or less the same in effectiveness.
Yeah, we so hoxha as a meme because we think he policies are not quite optimal (euphemistically speaking).

Actually: lurk moar. Since it's quite a common question, it's answered on weekly basis.

You take risks when you have a kamikaze regime like ISIS and islamic extremists.

One clump of polonium in your water is the end of that city.
The end is nigh for liberalism.

You might be right, I'm tired of arguing with types of racism in real life and leftypol as well. It's always the same stuff even if they are reasonable.

I just don't think it's the biggest issue in the world

Like, I'd rather we take less immigrants as they're from genuinely conservative areas and may take longer to integrate but I don't think they're trying to infiltrate and destroy the white race

Eh I look into it.
Lol, what somalis have is far older then the nuclear family but much much more patriachial. I hope reich is not one of those faggots who hallucinate over alleged bronze age matriarchies.

Literature is much better than tumblrines and SJWs. That ideology is also hacked by burgeois interests - see clinton's campaign for proof.

How do you suddenly jump to capitalism being against families as if that was what I fear? If you would have read my text more closely you would see that capitalism eroding families wouldnt be a bad thing by itself as it "disarms" the ability of the individual to gang up and get into nepotism if it werent for familyless societies falling prey to foreign clans just as clans fall prey to nationalists who make a communal effort to neutralise them violently.

Seeing that Reich inspired the german 68ers he somes more like the Grandfather of Tumblr but I try to find some good tl:dry of him.

In that case use a fucking conditional, you illiterate.
Nice generalization
Anyway, by all means if there's groups of anti-state socialist muslims who don't actually follow their own religion, by all means let them come in, but somehow, SOMEHOW, I just don't think that's the case, they're not the ones coming over here.
The ones I have were intolerant faggots, but I assume there must be pockets of people who aren't like that, they don't seem like the majority though.
Like I said before which you must've conveniently ignored, we'll focus on bettering the muslims after we have our revolution here.

i don't give a fuck if you are a muslim, black or anything. but if you come to my country you gotta follow our rules and learn the language. if you commite a crime is right out

Do you agree with and follow all the rules and laws in your country?

What is Richard Hunt? What is DGR?
stewarthomesociety.org/ga/

You mean your National Revolution? You can't claim to be anarchist with ideas like that kid. At least Nazbols are honest about it.

No you jackass, a revolution that will allow us to have the means to support other revolutions in other countries
A cherry-picked argument.