Why communism?

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hey Holla Forums

Lmao you do don't really believe this do you? We debate the historical experience of 20th century socialism all the time but in no place where its been implemented have wages gone down. Russia, China, the majority of Eastern Europe were all extremely poor countries and workers were much better off after the revolution then they were before it.

Unless you abandon it you'd keep it, although it's really stupid to do so as there'd be such an influx that everyone could have them extremely quickly if they wanted.

You can't pay people a fraction of what they get unless that fraction is 99/100 because the vast majority are paid so little that they have to be careful with money when NEVER vacationing, buying new things, etc.
So no.

Regardless, what party?
What elite?
The idea of Communism is really just a more centralized anarcho-communism (Really the same though). Everyone has a gun to each other's head, if someone misbehaves (according to what they were supposed to do) they get shot in the head.

Regardless that'd honestly probably STILL be better than what we have today. At least the government would have to provide and ensure basic living standards.
Realistically though, aside from what I've already said, with the internet and quick communication methods the government can no longer gulag anyone ever without being entirely based on military with complete support of the military (essentially impossible in a reasonably big country).

We've all seen it happen before.
Tankies take total power in a country and it invariably turns into a corrupt hellhole with enormous amounts of resources squandered on megaprojects while the economy stagnates because of mismanagement and the people starve.
All that because muh Lenin said that you can run a country even though you have no fucking clue about anything except sucking party dick.

You mean like in capitalism, where the MAJORITY of food is wasted (literally thrown away) despite demand?
You mean like how I get products shipped from the other side of the world rather than produced locally in a fully autonomous robotic factory?
You mean like how everyone is desperately trying to get (X) to (3B) on time and thus throwing extra money at drivers because they're too incompetent to have schedules, backup, connectivity of different "businesses," and because they refuse to simply automate truck driving (or use motherfucking trains)?

Yeah, that wasn't the issue in the Soviet Union, that fascist hellhole, nor would it be today especially.
That was just plain and simple famine and a shitty country with shitty technology with shitty land.
That issue has been fixed.

Besides, why THE FUCK WOULD YOU NOT HAVE A CENTRALIZED FULLY AUTOMATED DISTRIBUTION NETWORK RAN ENTIRELY BASED OFF SUPPLY/DEMAND CALCULATIONS holy fucking shit don't be retarded fam.
Maybe we do need a fucking gulag, maybe the tankies are right

But how else would you fund science, space exploration etc

These are giant programs and scientist are not always known for being good organizers and the common masses do not have the knowledge of scientist so again you need someone to organize shit like a producer

We've seen anarchists take over countries too, if it wasn't tankies steamrolling them it would be any other organised neighbour. Don't kid yourself.

If you want to tripfag you'll have to put a # before your name, they're randomised based on password, which normally comes after the # if you choose a name. Don't use the name you're using now as a password.

I don't, I prefer having my name able to be copied and people able to pretend to be me.
Done it like this for almost a decade now and people STILL complain daily that I'm tripping, I know you aren't komrade, but that's not something I care to change.
Besides, it's abusable so I can make slight alterations to avoid being blocked.

I am still liberal m8

It is apparent you didn't even know what communism is, which is of no surprise for a young teen looking for "contrarian" ideologies for the sake of looking edgy.

see flag for future reference

I've actually watched that happen.
Many years ago I was a roadie being occasionally employed by the convention center in my home town.
Every year they had a food services trade show, and virtually every supplier and restaurant in town was represented, we're talking 4 and 5 star shit here, the best money could buy.
It was all free to the convention goers, but at the end everything that was left over (and we're talking a lot) was bagged up and tossed in the dumpsters out back.
Mind you this is in December and it's below freezing outside.
We would watch the homeless people come in and take as much as they could before the cops showed up and drove them off, but when I think about the waste and the amount of suffering that could have been alleviated even for a day it still makes me sick.
Seeing that inhumanity opened my eyes to the truth of capitalism, in a way that being a wage slave never could.

This is child's play.
I used to work in a warehouse for a large discount food retailer and we used to have huge bins, like a few foot by half a dozen foot, with a few feet of depth. Every day we would fill a few of these up with everything you could think of, often due to something as little as damaged labeling. Ripped label on a 2l bottle or tin of food? BIN. Multipack of crisps slightly ripped with the inside contents still sealed? BIN. Thermal clothing with the attached label slightly ripped? BIN. And when you're rushing and not paying your staff properly, they start to damage more stuff, sometimes damaging stuff out of spite. Lorry drivers racing around would damage the structural integrity of entire pallets, which could over time while stored in the warehouse rip apart and "destroy" half a pallet of food. This was a daily occurrence.
But this, too, is child's play. This is only the food that makes it to the warehouse. If there is a delay in shipping between ports then it can cost a fortune to keep the food stored and refrigerated. These costs are priced in, and if you keep a container at port too long it could be more profitable to let the next container, which by that point will have a longer shelf life, arrive to replace it. What do you do with that container of food? B I N .

That's bad, but nothing compared to what is seen in the states.
Literally hundreds of pounds of food that is still edible (and could have easily been given away or not produced) is thrown away every week at every single shopping center in Texas from my observations as a Texan.
They'll pour bleach or other chemicals on them in some cases to prevent homeless people from scavenging or surviving in the town I live in currently. As a result there's like two homeless people, but that's only because all of them had to leave to bigger cities to avoid this issue (as there's actual food banks and stuff).

Like said that's nothing either though.
I road along with a trucking fellow awhile back and the shit you see, they will literally throw away 10,000-20,000 pounds of fruit just because it's getting a little ripe rather than give it away.
Why?
To buy a container of bananas it's like 3cents a banana. To buy from the store it's like 33 cents. To buy it in bulk, as in a cargo ship of bananas it crawls to around 0.02cents a POUND (3-4bananas).
Why not throw it away?

It's insanity.
On farms it's just as bad though, they don't even mulch it like you'd think though.

People are part of the problem, cut open any McDonalds trash bag and you'll get about $15 "worth" of "food."
But that's nothing compared to the other stuff.

This is why I originally became a commie.
It's all myths, from scarcity to overpopulation, all lies.

All you have is a Fuck You Got Mine attitude and this>>1264419

The Soviet Union had massive overproduction in some sectors and complete lack of goods in others becuase of the retarded central planning.

kys porky

Again, notice how you don't have the first clue about logistics.
Maybe you should spend less time arguing with people on the Internet and more time studying?

If you think that there is no mismanagement in today's society, you should take a look at the ACA.

It was mismanagement of resources by incompetent bureaucrats.

It's even bigger than before. Today's bureaucracy is even bigger than ver before

Again, you have no clue what you're talking about. Read up on the P/NP problems if you need an explanation why central planning doesn't work on a large scale.

Maybe you need a fucking reality check.

Holy shit reddit what are you doing?

I guess you'll love Trump then

Forgot the (you).
I normally post on Reddit, so I'm not that familiar with your BBS

Don't even bother replying next time.

The huge amount of space gave it away, imageboards are text dense.

So you'd prefer enslaving the working class to do mindless labor at a less efficient rate providing zero value whatsoever?
Tankie pls go

I noticed how you conveniently left out all of your argument when posting this.
Coincidence? I think not.

You mean a bill passed by a corporate-fascist puppet in a system that is fucked?
Oh wow who would have guessed a shit bill that's compromised in a capitalist society ran by the elite would be shit and not work out?

You seem to have NOT included your argument yet again, what's the issue my komrade?

If central planning works on a small scale it simply becomes more efficient and stable on a larger scale.
That's basic principles of business.
kys

You seemed to have missed my entire point.
Let me make it more simple for you, komrade.

Please elaborate on a realistic alternative. Because in the current state of society, automatization benefits the owners of the capital and makes the worker redundant.

Notice how some things can be effectively produced in some places, while they're harder to produce in others?
Notice how the places of optimal production don't always coincide with the places of high demand?
It is in the interest of the workers to minimize the labour times expended, even if this paradoxically involved more work moving things around.

It was introduced by a self-declared socialist to address healthcare for all, which is a socialist cause.
I guess it was NotRealSocialism again…

I specifically mentioned the P/NP problems. Simply put, calculating a solution to many complex model such as supply/demand scenarios quickly becomes impossible. .

What the hell is a business to you?

Seeing as it amounted to being forced to buy health insurance or face a fine, yes.
In fact, the insurance plans you were forced to choose from were so overpriced that some people actually decided paying the fine was cheaper.
It was a Obama's gift to the insurance industry.

Are you retarded? Serious programmer in both gaming and simulation shit. Like, I can't even imagine spending that much on a PC. My brother-in-law does some hard core physics simulation bs being a phd aerospace guy, but he can use university computers for that shit. Like, I can't even comprehend what kind of mouth breather pays a premium for slightly more recent PC hardware when the price will be halved within 6 months. If I didn't have a conscience I would be scamming the shit out of you right now because you would fall for whatever bullshit I threw at you. Honestly this is just sad. Paid $800 for my rig a couple years ago and I'm certain my performance is hardly worse than yours. Sorry, but this kind of stupidity really fucking triggers me. I need to lay down.

You fucking stay home and do leisure activities, work with children or the like personalizing education, or simply do whatever job you want.
Alternatively, you do your share of the labor that's needed, probably a couple hours a week at most then do whatever.

No.
I can make a steel rod just as well in Texas as you can in China, with the same amount of materials too!
So why mine steel here then send it to China only to send it back here you absolute madman?

And then cut up dismantled and stitched together with porkie garbage.
Stop being intentionally stupid please.

Businesses operate the same as a centralized production scheme.
Everything is tallied. Demand creates the supply. Everything.
If it works on a small scale you just do lots of that then plug them all into a central hub.
Doesn't work?
Go look into the methods of distribution for Walmart and the way inventory works.
Just bring that up to a "everything" scale and there you go. Problem fixed.

It's best to just ignore idiots purchases like that.
Guarantee you they bought something that's "worth" no more than $2500 and will be worth less than $1200 in a year or two.
Should have bought something useful, I know, but idiots will idiot.

After $800 you're just wasting money tbh. Guy's just mad that he'll be able to be retarded with less effort under a different system, but won't be able to show off how retarded he is as easily.

It is a gaming laptop m8, which i need cuz i travel around a lot.

I ve had it 3 years now and i had no problems with it, it was definitely worth its money even though i was worried about the bad alienware rep.

So i want to get the best available so i wont need to buy another one for many years.

And i pay a lot when it comes to things i enjoy, gaming and my ipad. Unlike people who ll waste money on a car just to brag, i pay for whatever i will use a lot aka all day when able

Seriously just post on /g/, 4/g/, or whatever tech board you prefer. Sure you will pay extra if you are insistent on a gaming laptop, but 5k is beyond retarded. I seriously want to help you on this. No matter your politics I honestly don't want you getting ripped off to such a degree. This is physically painful for me. You should not pay much more than 1.5k(really more like 1.2k) for a very high end gaming laptop and even that is only justifiable if you travel enough that a desktop doesn't make sense. Even under those circumstances I'd be fine with my $250 thinkpad because there are literally tens of thousands of 80s, 90s, and early 2000s games more worthwhile than any recent trash(most of which I can play anyway). With the money you save you could give to charity or whatever you rich or otherwise stupid people do with your money. Just imagining the years I could have gone without canned food and ramen makes me sick.

Not a Holla Forums drone m8, i enjoy new games instead of hate them and play old shitty clunky games.

I want something that will be able to play games very well for YEARS that means i need top tier equipment, i also need a laptop that will survive for YEARS which means good cooling system that wont have problems after playing for 12 hours straight

How does charity profit me? First of all you dont know when the money will go and 2nd of all charities are for "let me waste money so i can make myself feel better by telling myself how good of a person i am".
I much rather spend money on tangible entertainment than mental masturbation

Dude, the 5k lapop you bought is worth half that within a few months. How is that a good deal? I've played and programmed games since I was a child. I couldn't care less about Holla Forums because I'm an /a/non. Not all older games are clunky and honestly I would be less triggered if you just bought a game console and played whatever. Really the best thing you can do if you want recent and want a decent deal would be to buy a handheld. To this day handheld devices still get the majority of great fucking console games. Would be a better value to play 3ds or vita weebshit than spend money on a 5k laptop. Exception would be FPS in which case I'd recommend a sub-1k laptop with a good processor.

You didn't liked communism, you just liked free stuff.

I meant realistic, as in you have a plan how to achieve it.
You assumed that communism will just pop out of nowhere, which is quite frankly unrealistic.
Now the issue is that if we introduce automatization in our current society, it'll centralize the power in the hands of the few who control the capital.
Since there aren't really any serious communist movements right now that have a chance of succeeding, we need to delay automatization as much as possible.

Businesses aren't infallible and they regularily go bancrupt because their predictions were false.
If a business fucks up in a market economy this means that a single business goes bancrupt and the rest pick up the slack.
If the politbureau fucks up, millions of businesses go bancrupt.

As I said before, businesses aren't infallible.

If you do that, say once for each business, then you just have a market economy by proxy. Why not let the businesses do it themselves?

Those methods are based on goods being disposable.
Stores throw away tons of goods, especially foods as you previously mentioned, because their models aren't reliable at all.

Also that's RETAIL.
You can't just order 500 factories and cargo ships and send whatever doesn't get bought back to the manufacturer.
Oh wait - that's exactly what the soviets did, which is why they have massive factory cities rotting away in siberia.

Stop being a little shit and pretending your own wealth would be taken away. Stop pretending you're not poor as fuck despite your high wage. The entire productive force of society is being used for profit, not for the well-being of all, meaning at any given time a large percent of the human population will be at war, starving, have no clean water, or be freezing on the street, entirely by choice for the hope of profit. Whether you've got a lucky break recently means nothing at all until you can secure a reasonable amount of capital for yourself.

Becoming an entrepreneur is 100% possible in comunism.

Because exploitation.

That was the basis of the discussion you fuckwit.

They fail because of predicting wrong and having bad business practices.
When all businesses are one they no longer fail as they no longer make bad predictions or have deals fall through as they're unified.

Rarely do they ever actually fail though once they're established, honestly.
At best they're replaced, which is no issue with communism. People don't like (X) cookie anymore? Okay, give them something else. No harm no foul.

Are you just retarded or do you not know what we're discussing?
I was speaking about barcodes and the system in which inventory is done.
It's automatically calculated for restocking, it's automatically calculated for fulfillment, shipping, everything.

That's because they aren't connected and don't care about waste as profit is all that matters and wasting doesn't really cut into that all that much, and certainly not as much as running out of something and people simply not shopping there.

Being retarded again?
You make those factories produce based on need of fulfillment keeping minimal stock in each locality for the good, and replacing as needed.
For new or hype products (or any) you are encouraged to simply place a fulfillment request and then the factory would produce the product for you much like amazon ships from their facility for you.

Dont wrry, we will take it by force