STOP RUINING MY FLAG YOU NEWFAGS

wow, edgy

STOP UPVOTING MY THREAD

Considering socdems are just hipster liberals who jerk it to global capitalist institutions like the EU I think you got tricked into going to some actual leftist meetings by accident

It`s just the old guard(thankfully) who seem to carry these opinions. Nearly 70% of youth organizations members are pro-EU.

What did he mean by this?

Is…is this bait? is this fuckin thread bait? also
this argument linking all socdems to what some dutch guy did is irrelevent. Im socdem cus im Labour, simple as really. Didnt like New labour, so no, im still not a traitor (yet :^) ) us socs are usually happy to play the pantomime villains of the far-left, cus usually we have got stuff done in the past and are aspiring too in the present and future. I like to see socdems as rather ungraceful entryists, but i can see how others might disagree.

Old-guard are the anti-Eu crypto fashs.

Wait what's wrong with SocDem? They seem like a half-decent entry into more leftist politics

Were you even paying attention the past few years? Did you see what the EU did to Greece? Its institutions are thoroughly neoliberal and have to be dismantled. The Old Guard is smarter than you guys you should listen to them.

people like to plaster us as traitors to the left after Blair and other left leaning parties made bad decisions (which barely any of us agree with or justify) basically were fascists who get sent to gulag or some shit meme like that. I personally get a wee bit annoyed when i get told i should be killed by firing squad just for contributing to any discussion, hopefuly this board can grow up.

1. Do you support Friedrich Ebert
2. Do you support Tony Blair

1. Dont know too much about Ebert, from what i do know, as leader of the SDP at a very volitile period in german history, he tried to bring about peace, but allied with the wrong side in the Freikorps so from that information my verdict is: Unquestionable principles, wrong choices, probs had a soft spot for the right anyways to make said choices so i dont like him too much.
2. Blair won Prime minister the year before i was born, but i do know about his labour leadership before hand, and ever since he changed Clause IV was his admittance hes not left at all, but centrist, and so imo not a socdem at all. The only thing i admire new labour for was Mandelson and Campells media approach, and Blairs media appearance (Charisma etc.), policy wise it was neo-liberal, quantitative easing, trickle-down shite with a warmongering egomaniac at the helm.

apologize for Rosa and we'll talk

i think Atlee was a good example of a socdem. As is sanders but hes well old m8

1. would u fuck corbyn or sanders
2. will you into worker's self management?
3. how will you prevent your reforms from being immediately rolled back when the nearest corporate shill party is elected?

you called?

the problem is that no matter how smart the old guard tries to be, they will always be succdem

1. Ohhh good question i think sander might get a heart attack or bust out his hip so corbyn, but i dont know if he would be totally committed to the cause (of pushing my shit in.)
2.I think to an extent workers self management is a good idea, there does need to be a level of coordination and admin between plants and what not, but as for a worker using his labor as his own and organizing to create for the good of society, i see great benefits.
3. Easy mode: dont let them get elected :^) (the one thing i admire new labour for, they wanted power, and its how you achieve change outside of revoloution) hard mode: enshrine them into constitution, in the UK thats super hard mode but is achievable. the middle ground is having reforms which have public support, the more public support your reforms have, you more support you will have to make more reforms and so on.

I'm old-guard socdem. Like Bernie Sanders and Jeremy Corbyn. I like Kshama Sawant as well. Trotskyists are reformists no? I'm very anti-Euro and anti-EU. Look what they did to the PIIGS nations.

As for Rosa, that was almost 100 years ago and the SPD at the time were warmongers.I am not familiar with SPD's history in Germany before or after that. They killed Rosa and were warmongers is all I know.

Socs are just as left as the rest of you, but see the current frameworks of democracy as workable, im pretty down for revoloution too, give me a shout when its happening.
Pic is my compass, i know their a meme now but i still think theyre fairly accurate. Im probably less spooked than some of the an-coms on idpol

weird infographic

cant speak for the other partys but the SPD is only social in name. Germanys social democrats nowadays are probably Die Linke who were the previous SPD left wing

I actually really like the Social Democrat flag. The rose is a nice symbol.

Nothing, only fringe edgelords dislike Social Democracy

Well then, you're okay in my book

We'll talk when you resurrect Rosa

...

Apologize.

I'm sorry.

Not to be all 'le wrong generation', but most millennials truly are incredibly stupid.

Clause IV committed Labour to worker ownership, i.e. socialism, which is not social democracy. How can you not understand this simple distinction?

Actually it was social democracy, i.e. unabashed capitalism but with high public spending. After 2001 New Labour increased public spending significantly.

By this measure fucking Obama was a socdem because he bailed out the banks and so was Bush for spending on the Iraq War. It's not just money it's policy that matters. Blair fucking introduced privatization to the NHS.

theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/mar/29/short-history-of-privatisation

opendemocracy.net/ournhs/kailash-chand/moment-of-honesty-is-required-new-labour-began-dismantling-of-our-nhs

What do they actually say

that spot on the compass isn't socdem though

"I like tits but what is really beautiful is the soul"

Hello fellow Socdem friend, Social democracy needs to be spread to the world!

Strawman. Obviously any capitalist government will have public spending. Blair was a socdem because he believed in high public spending and in expanding the welfare state.

Everyone retained their access to free healthcare, and government health spending doubled. These petty debates over the involvement of private companies in the process of service delivery are not relevant.

That's really sweet.

...

Except he wasn't. The public services, which had been badly attenuated during the 90s, were bloated with cash and New Labour even instituted new services like Sure Start. They set ambitious goals for things like NHS waiting times and made it an explicit goal to raise spending levels to match Western European socdem standards. And as you were saying before, social democracy is not just about the welfare state; well, New Labour responded in a very socdem way to the economic crash, throwing their neoliberal pieties out of the window as soon as the going got rough. Yes, they were shit by any socialist standard, and they weren't Scandinavia-tier socdems, but they were definitely socdems in principle and they did their best within what they felt to be the constraints of British politics.

That was siphoned off into private-public partnerships via PFI. The money went straight to private companies managing public assets. AKA stealth privatisation.

monbiot.com/2002/03/10/private-affluence-public-rip-off/

Also:

"In 2003 the Labour Government used Public-private partnership (PPP) schemes for the privatisation of London Underground's infrastructure and rolling stock. The two private companies created under the PPP, Metronet and Tube Lines have now been taken into public ownership due to their financial problems, at significant cost to the UK taxpayer.[15]

In 2005/6 the Labour Government introduced Building Schools for the Future, a scheme introduced for improving the infrastructure of Britain's schools. Of the £2.2 billion funding that the Labour government committed to BSF, £1.2 billion (55.5%) was to be covered by PFI credits.[16] Some local authorities were persuaded to accept Academies in order to secure BSF funding in their area.[17]"

Shoving money and assets into Porky's hands =/= welfare state. This is the exact same tactic the swedish neoliberals used.

Are you seriously suggesting that the additional spending was simply diverted into the pockets of big business without reaching the public? Nobody would argue that PFI was an efficient system, but it wasn't what you're making it out to be. I've already talked about some of the actual achievements, like Sure Start and the drastic improvement in waiting times for operations. There were also improved benefits for the elderly and the Educational Maintenance Allowance, off the top of my head, and the minimum wage, although that isn't really public spending.

The schools still got fucking built. I went to one. Stop fixating on this point, it doesn't stop New Labour from being socdem.

cheers babe

the mabye im not as fascist as you thought?