Do you think we, atleast us in America, should abandon the names socialist, leftist, etc?
Socialism has been ruined beyond doubt as its almost always used in mainstream politics to describe bullshit like wealth distribution and "muh gubbmint free shit :DD". It's associated with the Nazis-National Socialist- and countries like North Korea that don't follow any marxist or actual socialist though, and when you try to clarify that the response is often "That's not real socialism, amrite" or "hehe no true scotsman". And even if you try to argue about this shit they just dismiss it or pull up a fucking dictionary with a bullshitty definition. And even the people who call themselves socialist are usually social democratic bernouts.
And "Leftism" has been ruin by association with "left wing" liberals and idpol sjws.
Idk if we should just try to clear socialism's name or give up and come up with something else.
They're on the up and up. At this point a lot of people actually assume socialism means tepid social democracy from the right wing calling tepid social democracy socialism.
Liam Barnes
Didn't Sanders openly call himself a socialist?
Camden Mitchell
yeah he called himself a democratic socialist (he is actually a social democrat tho)
John Russell
I think if he was going to lie for that long he wouldn't have called himself a socialist in the first place.
Luke Johnson
there's no difference
Nathaniel Barnes
democratic socialist want worker ownership of the means of production but instead of achieving socialism though a revolution they wanted to do it through parliamentary reform. Social democrats still favor private ownership of the MoP, ie capitalism, but with a welfare state
Brayden Bennett
He called himself socialist and defined socialism as social democracy, in a speech at Georgetown /uni/ he said he was objected to worker's owning the means of production.
Nolan Thompson
I'm not really comfortable with following the aut-right playbook. Let them scream socialist and communist until the word has less meaning and causes more eye-rolling than calling someone a fascist. Then just roll with the punches
Angel Jackson
Well, do you have a catchy moniker to replace them with?
Hudson Taylor
What's wrong with free shit? We must appropriate the kulak by force if necessary, comrade.
Carson Robinson
I agree completely. Some leftists insist on hanging on to and defending the mistakes of the past. I don't understand why
Landon Hall
edit face to be robby rotten
I think we should ditch the hammer and sickle (not part of immediate worker reality) but not the words, but just as much we should not be adverse to picking up on new terms, phrases, idioms, etc
Levi Price
...
Zachary Diaz
this ugly bitch knows what he's talking about
Nathaniel Richardson
wtf i hate bernie now
the alt-right has done it although every has quickly seen through it. though some expansion of the brand cant hurt you know. personally i call myself a socialist but avoid talking of communism, since people think of 20th century communism which was an obvious failure
I think he knows that, and I know that. If you call yourself a communist, or talk about communism, they've already written you off in their head before you can even try to correct their information.
Thomas Jones
the sentence in question was fairly unambiguous and it'd take a pretty generous reading to get to the interpretation you speak of, mon frere
Isaiah Foster
judging by how all communist regimes degenerated into state capitalism or even worse some weird ass feudalist capitalist hybrid like cuba, id say it failed quite badly. doesnt really matter why it failed, its perception is horrible in the eyes of the people. with the term socialism they at least think of bernie or european social democrats/the nordic countries etc
Jackson Gomez
cuba has a higher literacy rate than the USA and survived despite decades of economic sanctions. Every measure of standard of living increased dramatically under Communist rule, and it is a symbol of hope throughout Latin America and beyond. Cuba rules bitch
Jason Nguyen
Honestly, I never thought Bernie was an actual socialist. For me, he was always a tool to make Socialism normal again.
We should still use the terms depending on context. Around liberals, you should start with the ideas and only whip out the spooky words once you have them on board with "workplace democracy" or whatever. When dealing with conservatives or "moderates" never utter the words if you don't want them to turn away. They are too ingrained as "Stalin wants your toothbrush" in their psyches. If they ever hear that these ideas are connected to those words it should be by someone calling them a commie for supporting the cause. Even then, that may not be a stark enough situation for them to really get it.
Christian Stewart
get out
Levi Price
best post
Jackson Peterson
It's totally possible that he is actually way more radical than he lets on and is actually a demsoc, but just tones down his rhetoric because Americans are so right wing.
Ethan Smith
Didn't Bernie just save the word socialism in America? Yeah, I know he is a social democrat, but he did make it much easier to swing people to leftist thought.
