Committee for a Workers' International

Is the CWI the only international worth a damn these days?

I know they're Trots but they seem decent and active

Other urls found in this thread:

socialistalternative.org/2014/12/16/blacklivesmatter-movement-continues-grow/
socialistalternative.org/2013/08/29/syria-us-and-britain-prepare-military-attack-against-assad-regime-no-to-imperialist-intervention/
socialistalternative.org/2015/11/02/identity-politics-struggle-oppression/
socialistalternative.org/2016/07/13/bernie-abandons-revolution-time-jill-stein/
socialistalternative.org/about/
twitter.com/AnonBabble

im not sure if bait or just retarded

More like indecently sexually active :^)

found the r/socialism mod

explain

A lot of the r/socialism mods are CWI members

...

r/socialism has alot of cwi mods and the cwi has had mutiple rape controversies

The only worthwhile leftist movements today are in Mexico and Rojava

the only worthwhile leftist movement today is the group of trots that live in my garage because they mow my lawn and scare away mormons

Lel

UK SWP had a rape controversy a view years ago too in which China Mieville and Richard Seymour formed the opposition and later left the party.

In the dying days of the US SWP Jack Barnes's clique would accuse the old trots of being perverts in order to expel them. There were some possibly more serious rape allegations as well.

I'd agree with Rojava but it's really not as anarchist as most people think.

I heard when the IMT split in Pakistan it ended in a gunfight.

now thats a party split

No, you're thinking of the IFCI

That's not possible. If they're active, then they must be alive, but the only good commie is a dead commie.

C O I N T E L P R O

Up there with the spartacists as one of the more interesting cults

found the fed

...

I don't see what's so cultish about them

the IMT has a cool logo

but really what's the difference?

Everyone who disagrees with them is an Opportunist, Stalinist, Revsionist or whatever. At least the CWI or IS will work with other organizations. They are only active in Michigan. I have heard ex-members claimed they have been harassed. Like the US SWP they basically exist to print money for the party leader by selling books by Trotsky and others

None anymore. Just a stupid rivalry between ex-comrades.

You make it out like there's some systematic use of ad hom. Their disagreements are based entirely on serious theory and the arguments themselves are always readily available.
You're not slandering people just by reaching "the opposing position couldn't possibly be reached without serious theoretical paucity, ahistoricity or bad faith, and here's why" as one of your conclusions. And if these reasons are the same as those we find in back of the social democratic and Stalinist betrayals of the working class through history, it's no great sin to point that out, because it has very real implications for the workers' struggle.
I'd like to see how many other groups correctly predicted Syriza and haven't done any crazy shit like endorse Sanders or Corbyn, at a minimum.

Their news site is by far the most widely read socialist publication online, so this "do nothing" narrative is pretty much bunk. But I do agree they could stand to step up their brick and mortar presence.

Oh, come now.

That's pretty typical for Trots desu.

Tbh, any organisation that has rape scandals is probably cultish. The abuse of lower-ranking members is one of the hallmarks of a cult.

Oh wait, I think I'm thinking of the CWI. Sorry.

HOW DO ITM AND CWI EVEN DIFFER

For fucks sake, the October revolution is now 100 years old. Nothing makes porky happier than watching the socialist movement divide into fragments due to people arguing about which dead Russian man was better.

CWI has been growing a lot in America since Trump's election. It is now larger than the ISO, and has became the largest Marxist org in the US. IMT split off of CWI and is tiny, they have little to no profile in the US. CPUSA and DSA I think might be bigger, but are both non-marxist and non-revolutionary parties committed to reforming the Democratic Party (lol). They're also both full of left-liberals and very confused soc-dems. DSA is bound to split pretty soon, and CPUSA was shilling hard for Hillary. Hillary!

Obligatory plug, but now is honestly the best time to join CWI/Socialist Alternative, especially if you're American. SA is actually getting a shit ton of profile in the movement against Trump. Branch meetings are just so much more crowded now, so many new faces.

To me it's not so much a popularity contest as it is a matter of whether or not someone understands the dynamics of capitalism as an international system and the necessity of permanent revolution.

The trot hate tends to miss that Trotsky was fundamentally right about these things and was vindicated many times over by the latter half of the 20th century.

I glanced at their frontpage:
Fucking wew lad
Come on…

Write angry letters to the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions to protest the nomination of Betsy DeVos!!!!! Viva la revolucion!!!

Depends on the city tbh, some parts of the US something like DSA is as left as it gets. But if you're in seattle they're just gonna be edgy liberals. Don't adhere to ideology or larger party politics just join whoever is doing shit worth doing in your city

Man, I thought I was kidding about that last one. The more I read the more disappointed I get
>socialistalternative.org/2014/12/16/blacklivesmatter-movement-continues-grow/

Just give me my helicopter ride now fam

gonna be fucken surreal when the current generation of trots turn into neocons

How can they be trots if they don't believe in revolutionary socialism? That's kind of a percondition to the theory of permanent revolution tbh

The problem with "trots" is that "trot" has been so systematically robbed of any real meaning in its common use by liberals

And the neocon line is silly, it's exactly like saying that Marxists "turn into" Frankfurt Friends and postmodernists.

I'm sorry but you have no idea what you're talking about.
I have been in SA/CWI for 4 years, in 3 different countries' sections, and have not, once, met somebody who does not understand capitalism as "an international system". At CWI events, they over and over stress the need to respond to the international system of capitalism with an explicitly working class oriented, international, socialist, permanent revolution. This is a basic party position. We are public about it and even put it in our suggested new member reading materials.


What's wrong with any of these things? Also the last article is about how taking back the democratic party is a dumb idea. Excerpt: "But we strongly disagree with the view that the corporate Democratic Party can be turned into an instrument for working people. There is a mistaken idea promoted by some on the left that the Democrats once represented the interests of working people. This was never the case. "


This is the most shameless strawmanning. For those curious, this is not a slogan SA has ever used, and it sure as hell isn't on our website. SA has always been against bullshit useless liberal tactics like writing "angry letters to the Senate"

I don't know or care what your beef is with SA/CWI but for fucks sake don't spread blatant lies and misinformation about the organization.

What is your point exactly? That it's wrong to intervene in and critically support BLM protests?

A majority of Trot orgs support the American-backed Syrian "rebels" and wrote long mournful essays about how the "revolution" was over after Aleppo fell to Assad.

post yfw disgusting bourgie idpol fucks are apparently the most notable growing leftist faction in north america

Fortunately CWI/SA is not one of those organizations
socialistalternative.org/2013/08/29/syria-us-and-britain-prepare-military-attack-against-assad-regime-no-to-imperialist-intervention/

The Seattle bourgeois class and Democratic Party establishment fucking hates Kshama Sawant and SA.


Literally every single public SA meeting on BLM, Feminism, and LGBTQ issues condemns idpol. Don't believe me? Then read the website

socialistalternative.org/2015/11/02/identity-politics-struggle-oppression/

Learn to read

You've clearly misunderstood. I was talking about what makes something Trotskyist, with an emphasis on continuity with Lenin/orthodoxy, not your organization. Like, it's not "I think this dead Russian is better than another dead Russian." "Socialism in one country" is a major theoretical retreat from Marxism. It's unfortunate we live in a world where the term has, in its practical use, become arbitrary and meaningless, and where people like outright refuse to do their due diligence in policing what is and is not Trotskyist. Honestly, it's like the "communism" within communism in that regard. Seems you have to accept every possible mutilation of Trotsky's line and defend it or his theory itself is undermined and so on.

The anti-Trump fervor is to political praxis what bitching about being wet is to fixing my leaky roof

No shit, Rain Man. It's called banter.
Stein endorsement: socialistalternative.org/2016/07/13/bernie-abandons-revolution-time-jill-stein/
So they endorsed Bernie, implying his political project wasn't/isn't wholly the diversion of discontent back into safe channels AND that the corporate dictatorship is due per se to the two bigger bourgeois parties.happening to be in control, and not the nature of the bourgeois government itself as a, you know, device of class rule. Okay.
I mean, I'm trying to be generous here. You seem better than a lot of self-professed "trot" orgs. But when a group doesn't seem to understand that electing "socialists" to existing government positions cannot solve, at the fundamental level, any of the problems which it identifies, or thinks "political independence of the working class" actually means "vote third party" I don't see revolutionary socialists so much as I do socdems playing dress-up and wrapping themselves in the red flag.

And same with the ICFI/SEP
Again board friends, please be principled about what you do/do not call "Trotskyist." Unless you want to go to Commie Hell where you vote for the ISO for all eternity as an ironic punishment

Dog. You need to make more of an effort to understand SA's positions before posting. At every single opportunity, every rally, every meeting, SA explains how Trump is a symptom, not a cause. We are not left-liberals. Every SA branch will explain to you how Trump is a symptom of unchecked international capitalism, and the fact that there is no strong international socialist movement in response to it.

Again, another lie about our party's position. Find me ONE piece of SA literature that says that ballot-box socialism or voting third-party can solve "at the fundamental level" any of the problems we identify. I'll wait.

Calling for a third party vote is simply a tactic. Stein and Sanders supporters think they can achieve things like anti-colonial, anti-imperialist, socialist programs by filling out a ballot. You and I probably both agree that they are wrong in expecting this. These things are probably going to require General Strikes and/or working class insurrectionary action. When and/if Sanders/Stein supporters reach this conclusion, we want to be the first ones there to help them move beyond ballot box socialism/third party voting and help them build revolutionary socialist cadre. This is why we intervened in these movements as a tactic. Means to an end, but not ends in themselves.

Kill yourself MSFD

Trot hate has absolutely nothing to do with trotsky himself and everything to do with trotskiests.

Don't have the screencap at work, but I think Cavalry user's story about his encounter with SA elucidates why many posters here would be unwelcome in that org.

you forgot your shitty snake meme

That's not really true tbh I've seen plenty of historical revisionism against Trotsky and his various positions during the Russian Revolution, all stemming from what your tendency is

I lived in Seattle until recently and yeah, Kshama Sawant is practically attacked every single day in the media and is attacked even in Olympia by Democrats/Republicans who don't even live in Seattle. And SA doesn't really believe that elections will solve "fundamental issues", they believe in the whole "pushing social democracy to the limit" that Ralph Miliband talked about. Whether you agree with that or not, I don't think they're just "socdems" trying to be "revolutionaries". I mean Sawant called for workers at a Boeing factory to seize it right after being elected, but of course htey didn't even try.

But other than Sawant, SA does just try to act like parasites and latch themselves to every movement, figure and idea vaguely to the left. Sanders is an excellent example. They know he's just a partisan Democrat and that he'd never rupture and tear apart the party once they cheated him out, they just saw his popularity and tried to get members from his rallies.

It's not like Bookchin was a hardline anarchist either. He broke with the tradition in a significant way.

k.

Socialist Alternative's platform sounds good

socialistalternative.org/about/

There's just something about pandering to vanilla liberals and bending their message to "the mood of the masses" that strikes me as basically dishonest and so prone to fail. We can't expect a solution in adopting ruling class social mores or ruling class anti-trump sentiment lifted from the corporate media.


I dunno man, sounds like socdemism, except at some indeterminate point things blow up and we hit the barricades. There's no "breaking point" to the welfare state, it's more like a spring. I'd focus more on supplanting it with the alternate power structures you already need in place for a revolution either way.


Yes, any old liberal can repudiate the greater part of Trotsky's line and nonetheless proclaim himself a "Trotsky-ist." And you guys do a weak job of holding them to account. It goes back to the Stalin school of historical falsification tbh, Uniquely lax standards for what is and isn't trotskyist, within a greater ideology that has to explain daily that it's not "when the government does stuff," is a clear tactic.