Do you think that communism is compatible with religion?

Do you think that communism is compatible with religion?

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marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/06/09.htm
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No.

Why not? Don't most religions preach honesty, integrity, and humbleness?

Religion is the language in which we communicate spiritual ideas and experiences.

So yeah.

Question is:
Which *kind* of religion is it compatible with?

Literally no religion ever

except buddhism

Hmmmmm…. your answer wouldn't be…. judaism, would it?

Depends if you mean "compatible" as in "can you be communist and religious on a personal level" (sure) or as in "can you have a communist society that's overtly religious" (nope).

Buddhism doesn't preach this, in fact in many ways it's a more damaging religion, esp to workers than Christianity. It's also prob the most retarded of the major religions

No of course not.
Abrahamism is the pinnacle of the ideology born from hierarchal culture.
It would have to ressemble something much close to classical shamanism and paganism.

Religion is incompatible with materialism.

Question 22. Do Communists reject existing religions?
Answer: All religions which have existed hitherto were expressions of historical stages of development of individual peoples or groups of peoples. But communism is that stage of historical development which makes all existing religions superfluous and supersedes them.
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/06/09.htm

That question is as vague as asking "are ideas dangerous?". Answer is yes, but that does not mean ALL of them are too. I don't see why Protestant or Orthodoxy is incompatible, Catholicism might because of the clergy that was historically corrupt and encouraged capitalist way of thinking.

In Christianity, Jesus was more similar to a communist than a capitalist. He was a member of the lower-class, fed the poor, and cured the sick. He didn't charge money for it.

Marx believed that religion was just opium for the people, but every country had its own take on communism. Marxism-Leninism, Anarchist-Communism, Syndicalism, list goes on.

Christianity and Islam accept class society as being a natural thing that is "God's will". The best you get is strong social programs in the form of things like zakat in Islam and the caliph instituting a UBI. A lot of Muslims are against Communism on the basic grounds that it's not divine law. The Sharia protects private property as well, so I'm pretty sure the idea of seizing the means isn't gonna work. Some people are "tried with poverty", others are "tried with wealth." Sounds like bullshit to me, too.

how are you even gonna justify a state without religion

No

anyone who says yes is a filthy liberal and should get out reeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Dont make me get the Icepick.

With something that isn't a religion? But I can see what you're going to say a mile off:


abstract as fuck

what are you gonna do with it lanky liberal faggot?

my nigga

How so

because without the material conditions under which religion was created and thrived (inequality, exploitation, poor understanding of the world etc), there will be no need for religion

why don't you try reading a book instead of shitposting?

I own all the Stalin collectibles. Dare Ye call me a Liberal again?

how fit that a tankie supports religion, after all stalin was the traitor that espoused religion and orthodox russian nationalism during and after ww2 :^)

traitors of the revolution every step of the way

Wow! It even comes with the entirety of his wardrobe while he was in power!

Only Christianity has an empanicpatory element that would make it compatible with communism.

Religions that reject the material world (Buddhism, Gnosticism, etc.) are not compatible with it.

YESSSSSSSS

Oh I dont care about religion. I just like that Trotsky was murdered with an Icepick. Makes me fill fuzzy inside.

USA was a very prosperous country yet they embraced Protestantism completely. Get real.

secular humanist bullshit is concentrated bourgeois ideology. Even in a majority atheist country most people will simply stop talking about how "blessed" their nation is and instead talk about how "dynamic" and innovative their capitalism is

yes for a tiny fraction of the population, who used religion to justify the solidification of the elite. if you weren't a white petty-bourg man, life was living hell

dumbest thing i've seen here all day. please open a fucking book

No, individuals with supersititions could survive if people don't receive a proper scientific education

They did, it was haunted.

what is Buddhist socialism

also Buddhism is a retarded religion because it is not a religion, it is an education

Islam doesn't have "hand of God" BS. It does tell you to intervene by taxing the WEALTH not only the income. It's more leftist than socdem in that sense.

I don't think the full communism mode is the solution. We should find some sustainable form of socialism and forget about the past.

Religious institutions? No.
Religious belief/faith? Sure.

I don't think so. I think the attempt to reconcile religion and communism is foolish and idealistic at best, and downright reactionary at worst.

Religion needs to go.

It must be if we want it to work, spirituality and insane people are part of the human condition.

What do you mean by "Hand of God"? Islam does teach that nothing happens except via God's will. Islam definitely has a concept of pre-destination. Do you mean something else by "hand of God"?

The thing is there's literally hundreds of schools of thought (note: not sects) in Islam.
Not all are occasionalist, nor is it a prerequisite for being a Muslim.
As for communism in Islam, Islam permits the inheritance of wealth and name.
Inherited titles or power are not permitted (yes yes, everyone does it anyway), and one could reasonably argue that inheriting a massive corporation would be inheriting power, thus forbidden.
It could be kind of like the difference between personal and private property in communism.

I didn't know that about inheriting titles tbh, but I haven't looked too much into inheritance laws past reading the Qur'an, which can be kind of confusing in keeping all of it straight. What school of thought rejects occasionalism? The Mutazilites? I really like Islamic spirituality and am attracted to it heavily, but I can't ever get past the politics of it.

Funnily enough Catholicism has an entire movement, Liberation Theology, all about incorporating Marxist ideas into Catholicism. It's certainly not religious communism or anything, but it allowed some priests to play a much more revolutionary role during the rise of US-sponsored dictators than priests did in Europe during the rise of fascism there.

Yeah, not sure why the person you're replying to is suggesting Catholicism is less compatible with Communism than Orthodoxy (which is a bulwark of reactionary nationalism in places like Russia) given the existence of liberation theology and the Catholic Church's long history of critiquing Capitalism and Liberalism. Protestantism I could see, since the individual Protestant can believe whatever they want to believe.

Yes, but that's irrelevant since in a communistic society religion would pass away anyway.

What makes you say that? Reminder that it was primarily the elite literate aristocracy that believed in God. There is absolutely zero evidence to suggest that living in a post-class society would quench your thirst for the divine.

In fact, on the contrary, once perfect communism has been implemented it would seem only natural for people to drift towards believing in a higher power.

That was just their justification for their elite status. Born to rule, divine right of kings etc.

I've always wondered whether the bourgeoisie and other ruling classes throughout history have actually believed in God. Do they just use it to manipulate the oppressed into submission? Or do they genuinely believe they were ordained by God to hold power and wealth?