Automation is estimated to kill 5 million jobs

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The thing is, this is a much longer-term problem than anybody wants to give credit for. Over time less and less human labor is needed. We need to decouple the amount of labor from the value we place on labor, instead valuing labor according to productivity. That way automation means less time spent working for everyone instead of less people working full time. That will never happen in capitalism of course, so if anything, automation is likely to be what causes capitalism to collapse and/or proles to rise up.

good

now start demanding redistribution and we're on the road to automated communism

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Except not. That would incentivize the ruling class to exterminate us.

For once I actually find myself agreeing with a nazi.
Well, actually I don't fully agree. I think a UBI should be universal regardless of sterilization, but efforts should be made to reduce the population through voluntary birth control.

Good, now reduce the work week to 20 hours.

Have you actually followed the resent predictions on global population by 2050?

I thought you wanted a revolution. Revolutions tend to incentivize the ruling class to exterminate the revolutionaries too.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2148793.stm

the concealed conflict will become an open conflict, sooner or later. it is better that the battle lines be clearly drawn before the ruling class has the tech to exterminate us. right now they would be relying on comparatively primitive drones, but further in the future they would have more advanced weaponry.

They're using 2020 as the cutoff point because by 2025 or 2030 it's going to be over ten million jobs just in America.

That is a terrifying prospect. Soon the ruling class will no lomger need us. How will worker based movements even work? I guess we have more motivation for a world revolution, just things like synidaclism will die.

Anyway, the only mistake there was providing misleading information to the people being sterilized. Give them accurate information and make it clear that they receive a UBI regardless, then there aren't any ethical problems.

he's being prosecuted for crimes against humanity and it was the entire neolib global establishment applauding it at the time

I mean they have nukes they could false flag us with and start a nuclear war. Also global warming will kill off the lower class and line up pretty well with mass automation. It will kill the elite too though. Not sure if they're too stupid/greedy to realise or just omnicidal.

people are still so passive, but we truly are living in the most dangerous times in human history. the ruling class have more and more advanced automated weaponry. the working class are becoming more and more superfluous, and therefore threatening. climate change is exacerbated social conflict by destroying the natural environment and increasing scarcity in the poorest regions of the globe, leading to war and mass migration.

increasing oil resources scarcity is likely to force major powers into conflict, increasing the possibility of a nuclear exchange. even a limited nuclear exchange could cause nuclear winter effects, causing global famines, increasing migration and causing yet more conflict. faced with this, militarized police and unmanned weapons such as drones will be used to restore order. we are running headlong into this catastrophe and there is no united social movement capable of stopping it.

And then someone makes a build of skynet to make military strategy self driving and unmanned probably

Revolution generally involve widespread class consciousness. In that context the ruling class trying to exterminate the proles is a horse of a different color.

we're so fucked, man.

There is no need for such thing. Birthrates per woman are already below 2.1 in almost all of developed economies. They are dropping in India and rest of developing world very rabidly. Only factor that might not balance out in time are underdeveloped countries in Africa, but in thanks to population decline everywhere else we can expect that to change with immigration and consistent development that African economies are going trough.

Trade unions will turn towards their predecessors(guild systems) in medieval times and those who are employed end up becoming the new aristocracy of our age. What functional need will then there be for this wast reserve army of labor?

There's no harm in accelerating the process.
Also Holla Forums are partially correct that currently there is a strong selection pressure against being forward-thinking and benevolent. Giving people a selfish incentive to not reproduce would help prevent that. Then again, it won't matter if we get human genetic engineering working in the next couple of centuries, which we probably will.

Capitalism would not survive without workers and consumers, so kind of a silly worry.

Anyway, this automation stuff seems more like hype than reality to me. Just look at the self driving car:

nakedcapitalism.com/2016/10/self-driving-cars-how-badly-is-the-technology-hyped.html

nakedcapitalism.com/2016/11/can-uber-ever-deliver-part-one-understanding-ubers-bleak-operating-economics.html

HAHAHAHAHAHA STEM MASTER RACE REPORTING IN

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There is literally no need, since global birthrates per woman will be under 2.1 by 2050 according to UN estimates.

No evolutionary factors can develop in any meaningful way less than 10 generations so this is largely irrelevant. People are naturally turning to lower birthrates as technology advances and their material conditions improve so it would be most ineffective to implement any kind of social engineering.

Does it mention the jobs created through increased purchasing power?

Climate change would like to have a word with you. while ocean acidification rapes your pet goldfish.

[citation needed]

it all comes tumbling down

I was talking bout changes in EP and not in biology.

spooky

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Post scerecity is a term used by Technocrats, to discribe the point after the price systhem and thus capitalism collapsed. The basic theory is that if the technological capabilities of mankind reach a level of eutomation that requires almost no human labour, there will be overproduction, as it has been experienced since Marx walked this earth. This is pretty oversiplyfied but im tired and should be sleeping.

Heres a vidio that shows what effects automation will have 5million jobs are only the beginning.

youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU

try decade

I'm not who you're responding to, but I work in industrial robotics, automation and controls as a semi-engineer/technician, and you're just full of shit. I wonder where people like you get this idea that full automation is right around the corner. Full automation will not be possible for at least a hundred years. Even "lights-out" factories, which are touted as fully-automated factory processes (and are the minority of all factories), require massive amounts of human intervention to operate and maintain.

We can still reduce the work week by quite a bit, considering how many people worldwide are unemployed.

ur an idoot i saw an utube video about thee singulariti so ur rong!11!!

anyone with a citation for this data?

This I definitely agree with. I haven't done any personal research or formal studies on automation's ability to reduce human work load, but from my industry perspective I think it would be reasonable to reduce the work-week to 20hrs and achieve full-employment – within the next several decades.

A decade is too optimistic. A century is too pessimistic.
That's just my (semi-informed) opinion though. The only way we'll know for sure is to wait and see.

We would also have to double wages, which wouldn't go over well with porkies.

I think that depends on a variety of factors, and even something as ambitious as a century is still spit-balling. If there was massive government industrial capital infrastructure spending to automate everything, then yes it could happen. But I doubt that will happen barring revolution (bourgeois or proletarian).

Believe it or not, robots are not necessarily more efficient or faster than human labor, just more repeatable and does not take breaks/have to sleep/have to eat. For automation to be profitable (and therefore desirable for a firm under capitalism) it must be on a process with a large degree of repetition and precision. Automation is not the end-all it's cracked up to be, as the majority of all labor can still only be completed with direct human intervention. With developments in spatial awareness (3D sensor technology) and robot vision, this is changing, but even these fields are decades off from being where they need to be for full-automation.

And of course ALL of this is predicated on the assumption that we won't kill ourselves off from nuclear war, famine, pollution, etc etc.

It will not, especially if porky goes full-Elysium and separates themselves from the impoverished masses on a dying Earth

What I want to know is if we'll be extinct before automation kicks in, or after? The latter would possibly be more peaceful and comfy, unless it's like the Terminator.

I reckon it will be so immensely profitable that there will be a massive investment from both the private and public sectors.

I completely agree with this. In maybe 50 years we'll have sufficiently advanced software to start replacing humans in very general tasks which require a large degree of autonomy and dexterity.

True but that's far away from "full automation".

Yeah I've noticed the people most skeptical of the capitalist automation hype coming from Silicon Valley are in fact people who work in robotics and industrial computerization

As usual the media have completely overhyped it and the internet skeptics have reacted to that by completely dismissing it.
From what I've heard, actual academics working on AI estimate it'll be another 40 years before we see any AI which can think on a comparable level to a human.

I'm not dismissing "AI", I'm saying the Elon Musk, Ray Kurzweil futuristic fantasy bullshit like "the singularity" is total crap, and that even stuff like "self driving cars" belong in the "flying cars" category

You're fucking delusional mate. The self-driving cars are on our roads RIGHT NOW. You can actually GO BUY ONE. They work and they're going to destroy tens of millions of driving gigs all over the world.

No they're not. I just linked to an article about them. Self driving cars are hyped bullshit. The only thing on the road right now is self driving assistant carts essentially. Come back when you show me a real self driving car

Contrary to Musk and many of the most prominent advocates of autonomous cars, Shladover insists that so-called Level 5 vehicles—robocars that require no human input—are not on the horizon. “I tell adult audiences not to expect it in their lifetimes. And I say the same thing to students,” he says. “Merely dealing with lighting conditions, weather conditions, and traffic conditions is immensely complicated. The software requirements are extremely daunting. Nobody even has the ability to verify and validate the software. I estimate that the challenge of fully automated cars is 10 orders of magnitude more complicated than [fully automated] commercial aviation.”
nakedcapitalism.com/2016/10/self-driving-cars-how-badly-is-the-technology-hyped.html

So I'm guessing climate change is going to fuck us before automation takes off?

I doubt it, I think "full automation" is a fantasy that runs against the limits of the physical world.

Or at least, it's decades or centuries ahead of us. Automation is useful in lowering labor (in a socialist society anyway), but I don't see any conceivable way that in our lifetimes it will "take all jorbs"

but who will build the robots?

Robots a derk our jerbs

Well, obviously other robots

if we have automated robots building other automated robots… are they now a self-reproducing life form?

Mass automation, self driving cars, the singularity, etc is all bourgeios lies to keep us complacent and optimistic about the future. Fuck futurism, fuck Elon Musk, fuck all these liberals falling for it. It makes people think things will get better not worse, and that there's no need for revolution.

The things I listed might happen eventully. But nnot for a long time, unlike what the message being pushed is.

I agree. The laws of physics clearly preclude the existence of self-replicating autonomous structures. They certainly couldn't exist for 4 fucking billion years.

I swear, this place is a singularity of idiots.

To really see how fucked futurology is, and how people think we can live in a capitalist utopia, just look at r/futurology. Such a fucked place. Muh universal basic income. Muh worshipping of capitalists such as Elon Musk.

Um..

youtube.com/watch?v=0kICLG4Zg8s

Yes there are physical limits (at least according to our current understanding of the universe) that would prevent "full automation" and the singularity, etc

Fuck futurology* I meant. Futurism is prob something entirely different.

I thought u fucks were against welfare?

I'm not watching the video because you're arguing an insane stance. You are saying it is impossible for anything to exist which can operate a factory on its own. Humans are an obvious counterexample. It's rare for debates to be quite so simple, but this one is. A 5 year old could see that you are wrong.

You're not going to watch Noam Chomsky discuss AI? Well if you're just going to dismiss my sources then why bother?

Do you even know what "full automation" is? And the idea of a factory running itself is very unlikely, nearly impossible I'd say. Stop jerking off to Elon Musk and Ray Kurzweil

Tesla and Uber are NOT on the leading edge of self-driving cars. Google is. Their car has driven itself hundreds of thousands of miles all over the place. Get fucked. Pic related: it's you.

Daily reminder that 90% of this talk about automation is just bullshit PR pushed out by VC-funded porkies looking to fleece money of off more idiotic rich people.

Population will plateau and recede naturally (like it has in all advanced economies) and remain flat (like it has for pretty much all of human history until Capitalism) once our civilizations structure is changed so as not to need an endless supply of uneducated pleb labourers.

The only countries that could pull of this sort of population control scheme on anything approaching systemic levels would be advanced economies where it is already superfluous.

That's not a self driving car that doesn't require human input and control though, the link I quoted in fact brings that up, as does the video. So you're being self-refuting. So you get fucked. Pic related, it's you

This graph is based on data done by GISS as a visualization of the temp change over time.

earthobservatory.nasa.gov/blogs/earthmatters/2016/09/12/heres-how-the-warmest-august-in-136-years-looks-in-chart-form/

they'll be put away in storage facilities or euthanized at 50 or worse. you'd be opening the door for an infinite number of inhuman practices by doing this. people are not property they cannot and must not be treated like that

genious

1 child policy

New Vegas is already testing automated shuttles that have no driver input
They're expected to be fully implemented before the year is out. If they work, then it changes everything
Taxis, Buses, Trucking

Still interesting to me the Terminator predicted Drone warfare as far back as 1983

So I'm basically positive if automation happens, so will the military more than anything.

Skynet is probably going to happen

pretty big assumption.

did you reaad about the the euros wanting to gib robo-rights but add a kill switch, its like these goys are so fake about rights, so yea we gonna pull the plug on robo-rights which is violation of right to life so yea we are fucked skynet will fight back

Kek.If you'd do this,the only ones who would volunteer would be a bunch of first-world depressed beta NEETS.

Honestly I agree tbh

Population control under socialism will be a necessity. It will help free people from pain and hardship

This but unironically.

Porky will absolutely not stand for a stationary population and will sooner or later go apeshit about it, and you can quote me on that. Western and Northern Europe are a case study on this, because their overgrown economies have no room to grow other than by population increase, thus the mass migration. Sooner or later it won't be viable anymore, and Porky will seek another option. It might be Ceausescu-style menstruation police, it might be ye olde imperialist wars to open up new markets, but Porky will have his gainz.

Sooo. Better start that revolution before Porky gets the kill bots huh?

This is going to sound very conspiracy theory-esque

But they're already testing them all out in Groom Lake/Area 51 as a testbed. This is not to say Ayyyy Lmaos are at all related to Area 51, that gets brought up any time you bring up the place.

But Drones were being tested there since the mid 90's, perhaps earlier. Unmanned aircraft started under the Obama Administration and to a lesser degree Bush, were using these things developed there. So if Drones like what we have now were at the test bed What the fuck do you think they're doing there now? Slapping each other's ass?

No, it's really simple. They're probably already testing several things. One, would be combat armor that you would find out of a first person shooter. Two, would be fast and capable land based tread drones.

It will start with unmanned tanks and armored vehicles.

I'm more spooked by the smart dust. Like how everyone was talking about it since the early 90s and then the last few years that front just went quiet.

A major hurdle in brain-machine interfaces (BMI) is the lack of an implantable neural interface system that remains viable for a lifetime. This paper explores the fundamental system design trade-offs and ultimate size, power, and bandwidth scaling limits of neural recording systems built from low-power CMOS circuitry coupled with ultrasonic power delivery and backscatter communication. In particular, we propose an ultra-miniature as well as extremely compliant system that enables massive scaling in the number of neural recordings from the brain while providing a path towards truly chronic BMI. These goals are achieved via two fundamental technology innovations: 1) thousands of 10 - 100 \mu m scale, free-floating, independent sensor nodes, or neural dust, that detect and report local extracellular electrophysiological data, and 2) a sub-cranial interrogator that establishes power and communication links with the neural dust.

arxiv.org/abs/1307.2196

oh no not the jobs, anything but the jobs.
:^)

we're coming bucko

This is good, let the Luddites come and bolster the ranks.

This. Also it will be a lot easier to seize the means of production when they are operated by small teams of engineers instead of large masses of easily manipulated workers.

You mean seizing yourself, right? Because ideally there is no means of production other than yourself.

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Do you think that a government should exist? That a state should exist?

In the past labor movements have destroyed machinery as a form of protest, how feasible would it be to hack job-stealing robots? Are any leftist groups seriously considering this possibility or working on developing these technologies?

its going to be mass unemployment on the scale of the great depression but over the course of decades.

they will need some suckers to buy their goods and services to keep the scam going.

you know as well as I do that unemployment and technological advancement under capitalism is not the same thing as it is under socialism

under capitalism it benefits the capitalists, under socialism it benefits all of humanity

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