The New Dog Whistles

Population growth through births isn't as quick of an influx as mass migration. It's not going to cause the same sort of economic shock to the working class as millions of people entering a country every year. Especially when those people are essentially used as slave labor by the bourgeois. Citizens are entitled to a minimum wage. Illegal aliens are not.

I'm a submissive white boy who loves black cock, but why wouldn't I be against economic migrants who move to a country for the sake of leeching of welfare?

It makes it harder for porky to break the organization of the working class only because there is not longer any organization of the working class. The proletariat has no nation. He has nothing.

Borders need to be restricted to a small enough area that the bourgoiesie cant reasonably move through the same country and use income and economic inequality between areas to their advantage. America for example is way too massive for this to work, but smaller or less populous nations can benefit.

Thats why we need to capture the nation from the bourgeoisie.

Isolationism will never be permitted by the bourgoiesie anyway, so dont get your panties in a knot.

The speed of population growth is irrelevant. Work isn't a zero-sum game. Illegal immigrants need to buy shit for themselves too. Bigger population means more product factories, more restaurants and so on.

That's a different battle. Why people ask for immigration reform, so illegals receive the same benefits as normal citizens, so they can't be exploited anymore.

That is not my solution. I'm not offering a solution here. You want my opinion? The problem with global capitalism is that it's just not global enough. Nation-states and "closed" borders are implicit in it already, so I don't think it's much a threat. Part of the reason most immigrants are willing to accept so low of wages is that they are threatened with deportation. Those that are not threatened with deportation are usually in skilled and very high paying jobs; that is, not only are we outsourcing jobs to people outside who would will do it for a pittance, we're also forcing everyone to compete with everyone, as in what Hobbes would describe as anarchy or the state of nature. If you close the border for everyone, however, you might stop this competition, but you'll also start to stagnate, economically (like we see with Cuba). Without exchange of the new technologies, without access to the teachings of those new skills to work with said technologies, you will be stuck in a status quo.

u wot m8?

Still causes labor inflation which leads to less jobs and lower wages for everyone. The solution isn't to let more people in. It's to encourage revolution in other countries.

Makes you think

Can't even get white Europeans into class conciousness, but support turning the at risk working class and lumpenproles further into decay, for people that will have even less abillity to get into class conciousness.

Fucking retarded, not to mention doing the neo-liberals job for it, and also running cover for the demographic change to Islamic retardation.

really gets the brainbox bouncing

That's not what I said, is it? The neoliberal project is failing, but closed borders is not going to be its end. In fact, apartheid is already here. As I said, the problem of global capitalism is that it's not global enough. The reason people want to immigrate at all is because of how separate economies are in first and third world competition.

Immigration under capitalism will always benefit porky (at least as long as states have control over who comes in and who stays out.)

...

Immigrants either leech off welfare or lower wages by working for cheap

They are either the criminal underclass of wealthy liberals

They are either loved by liberal populace or they are hated by racists, so would be better off not here

Etc.

War torn impoverished, that is the whole world. If Europe loses it's homogenous enclaves that make Europe not being a fucking shithole possible in the first place, then no resistence to capitalism is possible, that is why they want nation states, nationalism, and homogeneity to be done away with.
Immigration makes one set of managerial and owners classes richer, everyone else fights for the scraps as the public services go into SOS mode and the neo-liberal parties slash the services

...

You're arguing the economic merits of nativism and of arbitrary borders.

Yes lumpen, be angry about those damn niggers sitting on welfare and all those illegals stealing your jobs. Pay no attention to the billionaire sucking you dry.

...

I want burgers to leave.

Where's your house, I'm coming over and live there.

You might as well kick out everyone on welfare and the lower class if that's your metric.

Daily reminder that the appropriate response to mass immigration is mass unionization.

I'm Irish ya fag. ENCLAVES I said.

Daily reminder that we can't even unionize right now, let alone with mass immigration
Daily reminder the IWW is fucking irrelevant in most of the world.

Thank you for proving that OP's accusation is legit.

I don't even give a shit anymore. There is no force on earth that will turn this nation of liberal bankers class conscious. Maybe the Arabic ghettos will do it for them in the future.

As if I read the OP.

As long as you don't mind me raping you, then all right. If you get to come inside, then so do I.

How to achieve communism according to lefty/pol/:

1. Kill all the poor that look different than you
2. Success, the bourgie will reward you anytime now!

Nee we worden alleen maar vierde rijk daardoor.

Hot.

This is literally neoliberal ideology.

ja, worden maar alleen daardoor nee

mmmmmmh.

Can't wait to join my working brothers the Somalians who are unemployed in every European country, or the refugee who never has to look for a job because all his bills are taken care of by Mutti.

That's literally why immigration is good. It can help to destroy capitalism.

How to achieve communism according to lefty/pol/

1. Try to unionize and organize
2. Have bourgoiesie import foreign labour to replace you
3. Lose access to food and income and be forced to leave union to survive
4. Have bourgoiesie pay desperate people off to break strikes and rat people out, or attack them
5. When you finally start to unionize porky goes back to step 2.
6. Communism any time now.

It can never do that, the point is to destroy all resistance to capitalism, and have desperate and abundant cheap labour.

Now that's a YouTube-tier comment if I ever saw one. How old are you?

Porky: We have our own homeless to take care of! That's why I pay taxes!
Also Porky: Get a job you lazy bum, you have to pay taxes too if you want my help!

Oh, Žižek is a neoliberal ideologue, how could I forget?

That's why unionization has to be accompanied by accelerationism. Otherwise succdems will reform the system to keep the workers from uniting and fighting back. Remember the goal should be the elimination of all wage labor worldwide.

This is what neoliberal pseudo-leftists actually believe.

Thus why the labor movement must be GLOBAL or else it won't work.

I'm a full Zizekian, although I disagree with him on a lot, particularly his Lacanian analysis of Garfield, so you'll have to try harder than that, and not frame it in the exact same way the Economist might.

Which doesn't WORK.

No, it must be labor movement in one country, united by federal infrastructure. No weak points of singularity to lobby and destroy like the EU, which only absolute faggots think is a good idea.

kek

If you were full Žižekian you would know that both closed borders and open borders are stuck within current ideological practice Cf: against the double blackmail.

How did that work out for you last time, Stalin?

Went pretty well if I may say so as a non-stalinist. Hows that "no borders" communism working out for you?

You can talk about the prevailing ideology yet you're the one basically repeating the mantra of the World Bank and IMF.

Aangezien Nederland is principe een veredelde Duitse haven is, zie ik geen andere mogelijkheid om hier ooit socialisme te bereiken dan een revolutie in Duitsland die vervolgens hierheen geëxporteerd wordt. Cultureel gezien zullen we ons hier nooit tot het socialisme keren buiten de Oude Pekela, en praktisch gezien zou het land onmiddelijk instorten als het gebeurde omdat onze hele economie bestaat uit bankiers en handel met Duitsland. Alleen als Duitsland socialistisch wordt kunnen wij als hun economisch aanhangsel het kapitalisme loslaten.

Nice false dichotomy. Seems like that's all bordercucks in this thread can do.
Don't you have a boot to lick? Don't you have some forms to sign so that you can get approval from papa state telling you where to live?

consult yourself, stupid cunt

This.

Strong labor laws
Strong unions
And closed borders

Only this is what maximizes the rights and bargaining power of the proletariat.

So what does sniff-sniff man propose we do?

The mantra of the world bank and the IMF is that they've already won. Annuit Coeptis, novus ordo seclorum.

That's not a false dichotomy though, faggot.
It's, you're either open borders, closed borders, or Žižekian btfo.

What?

Mee eens.

ITT Petty Bourgeois in a nutshell.

See, this is why "identity politics" are important in leftist circles.

Because there's always a faglord somewhere in Denmark or United States or whatever rich country pushing papers and getting a decent pay out of it and but he wants more and he doesn't wanna share.

Meanwhile hundreds of millions of people are scraping dirt to find some insects worth eating. They shouldn't disturb their little enclave, where trains run on time.

Import a few million isnt going to help the billions in poverty, especially since their population growth is much larger than the migration could realistically be.

It means, "Our business is profitable, new world order." On the back of the US dollar bill, which gives the headquarters of the International Monetary Fund in Washington D.C. its value.

Honestly who gives a fuck about them? I want to help them with a global revolution one day but until then I'll not have them shit up my country

Lurk more you clown.

I know what's on the dollar. I'm asking why you think it's a good come back to the fact you are a neoliberal, repeating the most bourgeois of economics, overlayed with a thin pseudo-Zizekian patina.

Phil Ohcs is spinning in his grave right now.

t.porky

It's literally me quoting Žižek. He's the one who said that the problem with global capitalism is that it's not global enough. He's the one that points out apartheid.

Just because you accuse someone enough times of a label doesn't make it actually true. It just means you have no arguments.

Do you honestly think he was promoting essentially dogmatic neoliberalism, as you appear to be? Just saying "that's apartheid" isn't an argument either.

yeah, who gives a fuck about fellow proletarians right

We aren't talking about Socialism, we are talking about the precursor, and if you think Socialism will happen because open borders, you are a fucking lunatic. Look who spends good time and money on persuing open border policies, the same fucks who didn't even see the backlash coming because they thought liberal open border fops would run cover for them. People are sick of all their shit, liberal, Neo-liberals, the choice they have now is non-idpol socialists, or right wing protectionism and some social concessions in a closed border nation state.

Where am I pushing dogmatic neoliberalism? That I can critique you to say an enforced national border is already apparent in global capitalism, that I can even say that this national border is what is leading to a stronger global capitalism where everyone is kept in place, no one moves, only finance paper, "free trade" deals, is neoliberalism? That I can say that the first world and the third world is already divided is neoliberalism? That I can say that you're not actually going to increase worker solidarity because the proletarian have no nation? Does that make Marx a neoliberal too?

you realize virtually all economists agree that immigration is good for the economy right?

o wait i forgot

muh feels > reals

capital doesn't have a country
they just move factories where the wages are low and take their money where they can't be taxed
anyone that doesn't show class solidarity is a Holla Forumscuck in denial

Christ, this is useless.
See, for what would be my response:

Yeah, exactly. I'm only a socialist because I don't want to have to work and I want to live in a profit-less society. Not because I care about muh proletariat

You realize even if you eliminate borders workers can't just uproot their whole lives and roam around chasing capital which can move as literally at the speed of light across a fibre optic cable right?

ell oh ell

...

See, you didn't even read anything. You just want to keep pushing this strawman. I am not saying to destroy nations. I am saying that to build up a nation is already the neoliberal ideology. Again, the only reason people want to immigrate at all is because the disparity between first and third world, that the global 1% is profiting off of countries that are basically all slave-labour, or are just a recepticle for the waste of the first-world.

You called national labour movements socialism in one country, you were doing the not x but y bullshit, not me faggot.

You literally said, and I quote:
Not "national" labor movement.

The neoliberal ideology is to remove national distinctions though, that's what all the """trade deals""" are all about. Removing sovereign governance, privatizing it, and putting it to the whims of global capital, slowly eliminating borders. As in Hillary's "hemispheric" utopia.

Turns out it's bullshit though and while driving growth, also drives inequality. So what does your "more global" neoliberalism look like?

Ahaha, all economists said Germany refugees will be an economic boom, when they cannot even read in their own language and are mostly unemployable. Immigration is good for the fucking manager class and up, it creates a massive underclass and destroys quality of services.

The same thing, NEITHER is socialism, it's still a capitalist economy, just labour movement in each country linked by fedaration, as opposed to pan European free movement of workers.

Yes, Hillary, the one who was running for president of the United States wanted to give up the power of the nation.

Yes, this "hemispheric" utopia totally isn't a reproduction of first and third world.

Neither is socialism what?

Learn dialectics kid.

She wanted a Hispanic majority as White mans time was up, the American nation is not the same as the nation upcoming with white minority. That is why she answered questions about borders with metaphors, 'we build bridges not walls', when Trump was giving rock solid 'this shit is fucking your wages and communities up'.

America is not just how many people roll over a line in a dessert, it will collapse if that is the case.

*implying that isn't a good thing

God I'm drunk.

Keep evading. Are you saying Hillary and her transnational Davos class clique are nationalists?

lel

Neither both terms you tried to nit pick for labour movements, are Socialism, making your Socialism in one country quip fucking retarded, and compounding that you then went on to say the x isn't y bollocks, which is exactly what you did in the first place.

germany has been importing educated workers from the ruined southern eu states and did the same with the refugees
the first wave of refugees that arrived in germany were amongs the elite of syrians that left early into the war

You're defending nationalist capitalism because at least it's not globalist capitalism.

You still haven't explained why you specifically are entitled to the economic prosperity of your country, especially since you're likely in some 1st world cuntry that exploited its colonies or was a colony in the first place.
or took someone else's land.

You reward centuries of predatory imperialism by denying economic justice to the people who suffered the most because of it.

Those people who want to come in your country aren't doing it because they're bored. They're doing it because of your wars on terrorism or drugs or on communism. Denying to help them is basically your admission that your fight against capitalism is shallow and once you yourself get money, you'll stop giving a shit about the entire movement.

Communism is a lot more appealing when you are relatively impoverished and the bourgeoisie are a global class of aloof financiers (which is the end result of neoliberalism) rather than local business owners.

No I'm not. I'm pointing out the flaws in the rhetoric of these """communists""" who are merely obscurantist neoliberal shills. That doesn't make me a national capitalist. False dichotomy.

Yes, if we just close those borders up, big daddy Trump is gonna start raising our wages again and get us all jobs! Porky definitely would never scapegoat those he profits off of so that he gains in recognition.

Are you saying that transnationalism isn't nationalism?

Kill yourself. The solution to the economic disparity between the first and third worlds is national liberation, not immigration.

You sure are drunk, trot. Just become a neocon already.

t. 19th century protestant

Why are you dodging the questions? Your only response was sarcasm. Global capitalism has no ideology except whatever global capital demands of it.

How is saying that humans are more likely to overthrow socio-economic systems when they are not benefiting from them an appeal to "human nature"?

Not an argument, we're talking about the left, Trump just said the fucking obvious that both parties wanted to hush up, now he's created a space, but the democrats have gone absolutley insane to even bother trying to get out of their token symbolism liberalism.

Why are you? You still have yet to explain how closed borders isn't a part of the prevailing ideology, only that it has a counter-part. And I actually have shown it has. Again, the whole reason immigration "causes lower wages for native workers" is that they are threatened with deportation otherwise and must accept their wage or else.

Does that include social services? If so, you've got a problem.

if you can't move where you want at will, you're still a serf

Over 1.5m people (probably way more, the Germans are liars) from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, North and Sub Saharan Africa, a third were Syrian and the educated left years ago ffs.

I'm not saying do not give equal rights to current migrants. They shouldn't be exploited. But in doing so with open borders that creates a honeypot effect.

Your argument for your more global neoliberalism, the purest of pure ideology, is that one feature: "closed bordersism" is ideological, so if we patch that up, problem solved. Its the essense of myopic liberal problem solving technocracy.

See, you're full of shit. The only reason you keep making these accusations of neoliberalism is because you want to have a strawman. It's like you haven't read a damn thing.

Explain your position again then, I missed it. I don't remember Zizek's particular opinion on this, and it's not relevant if you can't restate it yourself.

i answered your first lie, now i'll just ignore you Holla Forums
fuck off bullshitter

What lie, you simpleton, you don't even know what socialism is.

dude is straight up shooting retarded trumpist arguments

Like it's not even fully clear if immigration actually causes wage stagnation or unemployment for the native population, or is it just the fact that chinese and german do better products than murilards do now. Or automation. Or free trade. Or the destruction of unions.

It's pure psychopatic fascism, cutting a dividing line between the working class just so the porkys can benfit. It's the same fucking shit as bitching about gays and welfare queens

Holla Forums is just turning into /strasserpol/

killing shitskins right?

Wait, it's literally, because migration is driven by global inequality, all we have to do is fix global inequality first? I understand that deincentivizing the motive for shipping in cheap labor on the employer side by giving them full worker's rights. This may ameliorate some of the global race to the bottom effects. But how do you plan to accomplish all of this, how are you going to seize the global governance apparatus and reform the neoliberal order?

...

The EU is the one killing shitskins, another boat drowing a fuckload there the other day. Imagine if they tried to stop people from drowning by not bringing every person that paid a criminal money to go a few miles out to see, back to the shore they left.

It is a problem that has in it its own solution. When he says that the problem with global capitalism is that it's not global enough, he means that the idea of a self-enclosed globe separates the ­privilege inside from its outside, it is grounded in such a way that it introduces a radical class division across the entire globe, dividing the "protectors" from those left vulnerable outside of it. What we need is not just open borders, no one looking after it for anyone whatsoever to cross, but we also don't need something that is going to create massive antagonisms between already existing nations. We need sensible immigration, to help those people with real concrete solutions, to stop their attackers chasing them. You are right that the right to free movement should be limited, but if for no other readon than that it doesn't exist even among the refugees, who, especially with regard to class position, is able to overcome all the obstacles and enter Eurozone as obviously only a matter of financial privile­ge.

these people drown fuckface because the euronazi scum have built a wall in evros, a wall in hungary and they force these people to take dangerous routes and die to ascape war/poverty
meanwhile they pay tyrrants like erdogan to keep them imprisoned
and then then some retard comes along and claims that the eu has lax borders

This is fine, but you're really just preaching a reformist adjustment of the left-neoliberal global perspective on ideological grounds, whereas before it was supposed to be that the previous round of neoliberalism would work out inequality itself, and it failed. You have to preach this to the top global bourgeoisie and get them to find it in their own interest, which is really just capitalism anyway. What are your PRACTICAL solutions to this problem? Resolving the crisis of inequality is resolving basically the problem of capitalism itself. It's kind of putting the cart before the horse.

What, are you suggesting, that we lay a ferry across the med and give them bennies on arrival?

Oh wait, that's right, I forgot, your humanitarianism is just a porkie plot to abolish the welfare state. Nice try, Angela.

Nukes, and arming everyone tbh. Gotta threaten the bourgs with guns.

But what about the children?

lol

See, this is the problem. You're saging like you won the argument by invoking Zizek and saying "read a book", and acting like everyone who could question this is a crazed Hitlerist yet your actual solution involves giving people nukes somehow? What the fuck is that?

We can arm them too. Require them to take classes in gun safety, maintenance, aim, et c.

I'm saging because I don't have anything interesting to say and don't want to bump the thread with it. I'm not saying people are racist for whatever, I'm just saying that open borders or closed borders, they are both worse and exacerbate the other.

lel
Good Propaganda is always based in truth

so you'd rather watch them die slowly, trapped in some greek island or in turkey with no shelter and food because you're too lazy to actually defend the victories of the workers movement so far

...

Yes, while we establish socialism in one country or super-national union first. You can't save everyone, and if the reward is to attain communism, all sacrifices are justified.

Most of them would be taking land routes if the Italian navy was hovering a mile off the north african coastline waiting for them to sink their own boats.

*Most of them would be taking land routes if the Italian navy wasn't hovering a mile off the north african coastline waiting for them to sink their own boats.

You won't have the abillity to help anyone if they are all brought onto European soil, through the civil wars and Fascism that follows. You help yourself and your children first before helping others.
A whole load of Africans aren't going to give a shit about helping the third world, that is the Europeans role, and fucking over Europe fucks over that role, and ends European empathy that others lack.

so now the italians are the problem
just like greeks were because we showed solidarity
surely this is the problem not the war

What war, the one they wanted a no fly zone over to increase the war casualties and prolong the insurgency of Islamists?
You want the war to end fucking allow the Syrians to destroy the terrorists, and rebuild the country.

Immigrants actually frequently pay into the various welfare programs without receiving benefits themselves. It's a function of needing to fake an identity for work.

really?
in greece when the capitalists tried to push for fascism we started shooting them
and even though the media tried to demonise refugees over half the population helped them, mostly with clothes
the same in all poor countries lebanon, jordan etc
the rich people/countries though not so much

kek
since when are bombs and the looting of natural resources empathy?

Economic merits that benefit the working class. Infinite growth of labor and capital does not benefit the working class.
Nice strawman.

Sell me your bullshit delusions that this will continue and sympathy will continue, it won't, the media cannot keep a lid on it. People will stop giving a fuck about being seen as a racist.

nice Holla Forums tier masturbation
despite the best efforts of media, police, goverments etc the people remain in solidarity with refugees because we understand our enemy fully
we are been asked to shield northern european bureauctats and capitalists from the masses of desperate people that their own greed created when we are having our blood sucked by those greedy scum
hopefully immigrants and locals will unite and it will be enough to hang the capitalists upside down along with their fascist lapdogs

This is the problem with what you're arguing: you keep shouting neoliberal as if to make it true, like a slur, depriving it of all meaning in context. Telling that the only position you don't want to call neoliberal is your own. And I can't discount average people for wanting help to immigrate, rather than not immigrating at all. When change addresses they usually get that extra hand and space in moving trucks so that they may carry as much of their memory as they can over.