What happened to PK'ing?

didn't you hear? goons got their shit kicked in massively fairly recently

PVEfags leave all the pve games around and go after every pvp/pk game with endless crys to remove pk, make pvp optional and rape every pk player with tough punishment for pking. Only place pk will be allowed is p2w games or private servers. I played shitty revelation online and pvecuck were crying about pk on an open world pvp game.

A shit boring grinding game where you have to play for years to be somewhat competitive or be somebody's bitch boy in a frigate, or being in a group that waits around 2 hours to only get jumped by another bigger group and wasting said hours?

kill yourself, everybody knows what EVE is faggot

Choose two, you fucking retard. Saying that ganking lowbies is being ~muh hardcore gamur~ is like saying playing Mario Bros instead of Dark Souls is hardcore because it's the easier win

I dont know anyone still following eve at all. Theres only so many "look at this static screen, they slowed the server down" articles you can see before you remember how it plays and lose interest.

No stealing shit, but I specifically remember back in vanilla WoW stalking players from stealth and trying to attack them while they were weak and distracted. Was extremely fun, despite the fact that I didn't really get any kind of reward for doing it other than annoying said player. I never actually made it to max level in vanilla, nor did I know how to properly build and gear my character, so I was kind of at a disadvantage without the dirty tactics.

My nigga, i did the same thing. Max i got was 40ish on my rogue and i even survived some level 60 cunt trying to defend his allies with bullshit stuns and stealth. Ganking people in that jungle zone with the goblin port was the most fun i've ever had in an MMO.

you doing it wrong only means you should do your self in for being such a casual tbh

if you knew how it played you wouldn't have called it a spreadsheet manger

They changed this I think. I killed some people when they opened free international server and pk status didn't go. You have to kill many monsters and you will be killed by other players non stop and the status won't go so I quit. That was years ago and don't know how it's now.

"criticism of my monetary investment timesink is personal attack i must defend against" syndrome at work i guess. evecucks are just kind of sad at this point.

PKs haven't been a thing since UO. No modern MMO would allow that much player agency or risk backlash from carebears.

I'm not sure, i didn't play for long on the official version. I usually played on private servers where the pk points were much more manageable and sometimes it took just a couple dozen mobs to clear it. In some cases it cleared so quickly you could PK in populated zones and start killing many mobs as you could to clear it, the rush of it was part of the fun.

What if there were a hard limit on who you could actually attack?

Using WoW as an example, say you could not attack anyone more than 10 levels outside of your range, OR anyone below max level if you were max level. Maybe even a gear check based on item level, to keep people in raid/pvp epics from ganking people in quest greens.

Point is ganking pvp is fine, as long as it's somebody who would have a chance of fighting back or at least getting away. In WoW, and probably many other MMOs, ganking pretty much turned into 1-shotting lowbies as you passed them at high speeds.

don't have to defend the game, just pointing out how what you've said isn't adding up

I have played it and it is a spreadsheet simulator, fuck off and go shill your game somewhere else, goon

well naturally you would know more about adding things up from your spreadsheet simulator.

Mmuh spreadsheet!

that's just basic maths mate, I suggest you learn sometime

Sort of sounds like Tera now.

The funny thing is that nobody goes there because they don't have a chance, so in order for the specific time event to proc, there has to be atleast another guild in there so they made another guild just so they can exploit the system.

Oh quit being a whiny bitch, i never said that or anything of the sort, i said there was a culture of it, like there has been in most games.
Its a running through hot coals thing, if you cant handle that you cant handle the server. especially in a game with channels

pking destroys the structure of a game if its totally out of control
tbh there should be an MMO with:
Hub City - pure pve/trading/hangout zone, newbs can kill off street thugs and do jobs to get on their feet and get some starting gear

The Greens - pvp limited to people of a similar level to yourself, basically a noob/early intermediate area that surrounds the hub city

The Outlands - absolutely anything goes, players can even build their own cities which can potentially be conquered or razed to the ground by raiders

Devs removing creative ways to fuck with players, as discovering and exploiting those work arounds is what makes PvP more than a boring gank fest.

[muffled warp drive actived in the void]

also think starwars galaxy did that and maybe perpetuum

PvP doesn't work because the rotting infrastructure that surroundings MMO games doesn't work.
Levels are a way of splitting up friends that join at the same time, and even worse because you also need to make more arbitrary restrictions on who can engage who on what level

This could going to run into a diaspora about how MMO PvP isn't good because MMOs aren't good which is already being explained by this very sentence you read just now, so I'll leave it as-is.

...

PvP in MMOs is busted at a fundamental because MMOs are a number games - there is no real skill involved.

I can theoretically SL1 naked fist-only my way through Dark Souls at NG+9, I can technically take on and defeat the highest tier monsters in Monster Hunter with nothing but starter armor, and it's entirely possible for someone to go into a Quake match and come out with a 50:0 K:D ratio using nothing but the gauntlet. All of this is possible through player skill overcoming mechanical adversity, which is simply not possible in a game where your ability to progress and succeed is directly related to the stats on your equipment. A fighter with a 10 damage sword will ALWAYS out-perform a fighter with a 9 damage sword.

Even when MMOs try to fix this by issuing standardized, PvP-specific gear it still falls flat, because when you remove the numerical element you're left with a glorified game of rock-paper-scissors where the only skill amounts to how quickly someone can hammer out the sequence to their most effective rotations, and by that point you may as well be playing competitive Beatmania.

Busted at a fundamental level*

Plenty of games don't even have PVP at all. Just like how sandboxes got largely phased out too.

If you want a PVP MMO sandbox these days, you've basically got Wurm Online, EVE Online, Perpetuum, and a few other weird and niche titles, many of which are having identity crises of their own (especially EVE, god damn is that game flailing around a lot lately).

It is easier than ever to be competitive now. And it's not like all PVP is giant alliance battles. Most low-sec fighting takes place in frigate and cruiser size classes. By the time you're done the tutorial, you can have a solid build going (for team hunting anyway, but then solo EVE is for faggots anyway). And the tutorial gives you tons of shit for very little effort, so it's not like it isn't worth doing.

If you're spreadsheeting you're doing industry or trade, and both of those are for faggots. You are definitely playing the game wrong.

To be fair, even UO had consequences for murdering people. It was even harder to get a rez from NPCs as a murderer, let alone all the other shit you had to deal with. But it was fun…

aka EVE, Perpetuum, Shadowbane, etc.

Fucking this. All the best PVP MMOs were also sandboxes without "levels", because levels are cancer. Only two games with strong pvp and levelling systems didn't bother me: Guild Wars and Shadowbane, and in those games, levelling was so fast it didn't matter.

there was that recent classless wow server that made pvp work against both factions, and players drop some of their items when they die
i like the idea, but i can't handle the grind so i haven't tried it, + there was a payed beta before it was publicly released, which kind of puts me off. i mean, if they're actually profitting from this they have an even bigger chance than nost to be stopped

What brand of shitposting is this?

I also played on private for long time. You can use summoner to bring you save place or do pk quest so you don't lose much. Free official was shit though.

scrubs

lol

I remember that warhamme online had this though, each map was half order and half destruction which had main paths meet up at a point and so it was very easy to go behind lines and gank a noob or two

>>>/bog/

Cucks everywhere that avoid combat, gank you, outright hack or just have the connection speed of a peruvian. Games either babysit players or go with LE HIGH RISK HIGH 420 REWARD HARDCORE PERMADEATH 2.0 LIKE THE SOULS GAMES where if you die your everything gets deleted.

Few games that do it "right" are on life support and have their servers shut down or don't see any balance patches at all, leading to the same strategies and "rock paper scissor" fighting that gets stale after a week.

I remember that silkroad online game doing it somewhat right, although murderzones outside of starting towns were a thing.

...

who actually calls it that? I have never heard anyone call it that outside of shitty anime, its called ganking you weeaboo.

I love this webm

your new is showing

There's also Runes of Magic, which is a F2P WoW clone with a dual-classing system. It has FFA open world PvP:
us.runesofmagic.gameforge.com/game/index/pvp

user clearly never hunted for ears.

...

its too good

I know! And while we're at it they're called toons, not characters/PCs/whatevergrandpasays. Get off my vidya you fucking nerds.

The problem is that when people think of open-world PvP, they instantly think "raiders and random PKs robbing each other constantly". The focus is all on the evil side of the concept and the negative reinforcement that comes with trying to punish people for it. Really the problem is that moralfag players aren't rewarded enough for bringing PKs to justice. Becoming a PK is ALWAYS more profitable in the end, to the point where anyone who becomes skilled in the game either becomes a PK themselves or quits out of frustration (because it's pretty discouraging when you compare the loot that Mike Moralfag pulls from his NPC instance raids to the hoard that Bandit McBigDick pulls from his daily PK outings).

If a game had open world PvP and offered enough of a incentive to hunt habitual Player Killers it could thrive, but the devs would have to find a way to make serving in heaven just as rewarding as reigning in hell.

...

pvp isn't dead
PKing is just what you mmofags call it

I prefer that you can PvP anywhere without that attack-disabled notification. Just like in the city, if a guard caught you stabbing someone in the back then you he'll come after blood. In the alley where the number of guards are lower will be a haven for thieves and assasins but of course for a higher reward who wants to venture through it. Then the backyard where the guards are only near the entrances and have limited aggro range. The rest is what you've posted.

They canned it it because it makes the game really emotional. Depending on what is at stake it makes the gameplay really exciting or infuriating.

This, my group managed to destroy new and really unique private server through constant killing of other players, until only we remained. Now I feel really bad for doing this.

see the trouble with that is the same fucking issue alts bring to the game

You're too hung up about individual skill in games, in MMOs, it's largely about factors such as coordination, strategies, number of people, the landscape and so on.

PKing does not equal PvP despite involving it, a PK is someone who primarily kills other players in an MMO, where other playstyles exist.

That's only used in mmos that flag you as a PK and have bonuses or penalties for it.

Rust is an example of what happens, mostly. Any PvE is (usually) established clans who already know each other, farming is doable but you're always at risk of getting your shit wrecked.

Skill is more important than gear usually since you can be naked with a spear and take out a geared player if they suck or you get the drop on them.

Being Ricky Raider is the only way to really score tons of shit in a short amount of time, so someone is ALWAYS going to come up short in the end. Every once in a while you'll see groups team up to take out large clans big dicking the entire server with varying degrees of success.

Too bad rust is a directionless pile and facepunch have no idea what the fuck theyre doing with it. Still waiting on horseback riding, Garry. It's only been how many years since you added horses and posted WIP saddle models?

This.
It's why I won't bother with any mmorpgs.
Ultima became shit after the first 2 years anyway, and progressively so thereafter.

It was a different world, and one of the most important things was that since it was practically the first real mmorpg, there wasn't this awful self-awareness that saturates every facet of all the games that have come since - as clearly shown in the terminology all these faggots use.

There were red healers too.
Killing someone once in a while had no real consequence - it was expected. It was when you did it constantly that it became an occupational hazard.
There were also bounties posted for real murderers which other players could collect.
Most people didn't dare, as the reds were often the most skilled killers for obvious reasons.
In large due to them having T-1 lines, leased lines or some other high end connection at the time - as lag was always the biggest and most effective killer.

Did anybody else see this at first or just me.

That's right, the adrenalin or despair was never so great as when faced with other players - they were utterly unpredictable in comparison with the nearly static monsters.
You didn't know what their attack would be, their weapon or their method - whether they'd run halfway through a fight or if ten others would suddenly appear - and if they'd assist in your death or your survival.

Losing everything you own was the best.

...

thats the kind of thing you really should keep to yourself user

i see it now that you mention it but what the fuck user

It's just you.

keep being lewd user

What the fuck is wrong with you? Don't ever stop.

It's difficult to create a game system where there's a good balance between 1) allowing PKing 2) protecting newer players from bored max lvl characters 3) having consequences to dying (both as PKer and PKd).

If it's difficult to do, it means it'll take time and cost money to "add it in" as a feature. Meaning that unless the game was built from the ground up with PKing in mind, PKing will either end up being a second thought or a false promise.

WoW allows PKing but there's no meaningful protection against players at the lvl cap killing newbs in Ashenvale and there's no consequence to dying so if you get ganked you just have your time wasted and if you kill the ganker he'll just come back and try again.

Bored powerful players generally don't kill new players as there is no reward - no items or money or xp or whatever the reward is.
Also, people who live to kill generally enjoy some kind of challenge - whether it be being outnumbered or fighting someone their own level or being in a risky situation - that is the thrill.

The balance and faggotry that has been the foundation of almost every online game is unbearable.

The reason they don't include constant unbridled killing is simple - they want to serve the lowest common denominator - the casual player.
Most people simply won't be good at killing other players, as it requires skill and tactics, and decent reflexes.
No granny or young kid is going to do well at that - most women will be awful at it, they don't have the right mindset.
20 year old japanese men will excel at it - but they are mostly confined to asian servers.

I've seen entire games nerfed to an unrecognisable shitlump with the developer/programmer themselves declaring it is because "the game was too skill based" - and "not everyone has the time or the ability to become good at it". So they make it item based, level based - and casual faggots do more or less the same as everyone else.

It is a pity, games used to be designed for fun and as a challenge - then making money took over as being the primary goal for all games.

Says who ? On pirated servers that is the norm.

There's your problem right there.

There was more fun there than any official ones. You have never fought horde vs alliance inside raid instances over bosses.

If there's no reward for it, it's a shitty system. If there's no penalty for it (other than a corpse run), it's a shitty system. If a max level character made overpowered by 5 expansions' worth of mudflation can stroll into Redridge and 1 shot all the lowbies and the guards, it's a shitty system. That's what having a balance between the three elements I listed means. If one of core points isn't handled properly, the whole thing is going to suck.

Everquest was the golden age of PK because of how punishing an in game death was

The real reward was always the challenge and it being fun. That is what a game is for.

I'm talking in general, never played "warcraft: online".
As for pay to play, that automatically makes any game unplayable.

These are all elements that are better utilized and exploited in other genres, though, and what's more the statistical elements often eclipse these factors to such a degree that concepts like "strategy" are practically meaningless when you're able to chunk the enemy team for 3 times the damage they can do to you.

Time and time again, I've seen across multiple MMOs dozens upon dozens of new players slaughtered by a couple veterans simply because no amount of numbers, coordination or strategy can plow through two or three guys with end game gear camping a town exit. Literally the only way instances like this are defeated are when a bigger, better-equipped blob of players comes along to dislodge the aggressors.

Within organized PvP, numbers and terrain lose value as developers insist on trying for as even a playing field as possible, and good coordination has grown increasingly commonplace thanks to the prevalence of VoIP and 3rd party monitoring apps.

Ultima beat the shit out of everquest - unless you can convince me otherwise.
Penatly of death in ultima is that you'd lose everything you were wearing or carrying - your fame would decrease, you'd be stuck in the middle of nowhere as an intangible ghost - very likely with no way to communicate with other players, and have to run back to civilisation either as a ghost or naked and defenseless to start all over again.

Runescape still did it the best, I think.

You also have to keep in mind that bored high level characters, frustrated players who got ganked and want to vent on lowbies and griefers will be ganking, too. Fun's important, since that's what games boil down to, but for MMOs you need a structure in place. Even sandbox MMOs need solid systems in place to handle PKing.

If a few bored max lvl characters and keep any new player from ever progressing through the game, no one's going to have fun for much longer.

Play MMOs that advertise open PvP like Mortal Online, but realize that these games aren't very popular because

The structure in ultima was if you murdered too frequently and too many people - you became the status of a 'murderer' - which meant anyone else could attack you without repercussion - an automatic bounty was also placed on your head, so that if someone killed you, they could cut off your head and take it to a town hall for a reward.

Apart from that, it was the wild west.
Some people died, some people died a lot, but the fun came from a lack of restrictions in the right places.

Unfortunately bounties were too easily exploited, you just got a friend to cut your head off and split the money afterwards.

Mortal online was a nice experiment - but didn't really work.
They also went against their starting principles of why they created the game - in order to make it safer and more attractive.
No point having it half done.

One guy was still a murderer.
The bounty wasn't much money anyway.
It took too long to build up.
You could kill tough monsters a lot quicker for a lot more gold.

I haven't seen real high risk pvp since pvp servers in Everquest, which let players loot your full inventory, including money you were carrying. Only bound items couldn't be looted, which at that time was mostly only quest rewarded end game caliber gear. The bound gear was rare and difficult to get. Quests then were typically challenging enough to require a full group or even raids to complete. Most gear was not bound and could be freely traded or resold.

The balance is the problem, if the bounty isn't worth anything then no one bothers bounty hunting. If it is, then you're your own money source.

Fundamentally speaking, PvP in a game where your power is mostly based on how much time you've played is always going to be a problem. The guy that spends all day macroing will always be stronger than the guy that logs in for a few hours over the weekend, and the casual players are where most of the MMO money comes from.

just .. fuckign play eve online and stop your useless topic about "muh casual"

EvE will outlive WoW EASELY
youtu.be/wtco4JxYz_o?t=1m16s

Stop typing like a god damn twelve year old you stupid shill.

newfag

Big reason why I play Dark Souls games a lot is for the Pk'ing, the satisfaction from making someone alt+f4 or sending hate mail is amazing

There's a limit to the skills/item - but player skill should always be the main factor.
That comes with a mixture of time, experience, and the kind of person the player is.

Money has ruined gaming in a broad sweep. It has made the games all similar, unimaginative, unchallenging and dull.
Given how many people play games nowadays as compared to 20 years ago - there should be room for one game that is halfway decent and still attracts enough people to be viable.

Because designing a more fun system ignore the real goal of the game.

You're getting ganked irl to purchase stupid shit. People ate the gambling DLC meme right the fuck up and now we all have to suffer for it.

I just bought new coloured limited edition underwear that no one will ever see - they were only 200, but it is worth it.

Going to buy some temporary items soon - a message that floats over my head that says "I spent 500 on this message", for 500 - and it lasts a whole week!

It can be a good thing and a bad thing. If someone that's absurdly high leveled and geared just camps on some common route and kills anyone that passes by, that just makes the game fucking annoying and unfun, especially if they don't lose anything if they die because they can just go back and start again.

There's a reason why most open PvP players are on pirate servers of old games- it takes money completely out of the equation. It also takes most of the gaming population out of the equation too, but a lot of those people are too busy playing pay-to-win cashgrabs to care.

you can call it shill all you want, that won't change the truth. Also the game put some f2p experience, and YOU CAN do stuff even with the limitation fo the f2p (alpha clone) model

youtube.com/watch?v=AElLSCGKEEc

you just have to not be a fucking casual in your mind, who think he is a special snowflake who want to be "the hero"; because if that s the case ,if you think like that, then WoW is perfect for you and i dont see why you would criticize it unless you want to be edgy.

One of the few games I really enjoyed the world PvP was DCUO, since low levels did have some chance of beating up higher levels if they worked together, since you could still stun higher levels.
Gave you the feel of taking out big super villains as group of 20 somethings are fighting a 50 something.
If you were a good goy as well the paid powers were OP as fuck.
We never played the game after that, good way to end it honestly.

sure you can do things, in six years time if you sub and twice or more longer unsubbed

Private servers are often corrupt and rife with nepotism between admin and their pals.

There also is little incentive to continue playing as the game has no long term stability and you aren't paying every month, so nothing to lose but the time you injected.

I think Rising Force Online did it right.
The game consisted of 3 main races at war with each other, and for the first few levels, you played in your own race's HQ, completely safe from any other races.
Then you went on to play on your race's outskirts, a place MOSTLY dominated by your race and full of friendlies… but where other races could sneak into. You could be calmly leveling your lowbie character when all of a sudden a party of another race jumps in on you, and you get the fuck away from there, or you're toast.
Then, as the levels went on, at some point you'd have to go into neutral grounds, places where all three races HAVE to go to level, so you need to be attentive to your surroundings at all times.
As a reward for PKing, you had honor points and gold or some shit, it has been a long time since I played, so I can't remember for certain. There was also an event that happened 3 times a day, a full on scale war between all three races for asserting dominance on the best mining spot in the game, winning it also gave the winning race some pretty good stat buffs for a while, and the losing race a pretty harsh debuff.

And that's what happened to PKing. People don't like losing, preferring instead to grind forever for a 2% advantage.

Sounds fun.
Was also possible in a little game called Regnum. Had a great many faults and was rather limited in scope - but for the first couple of years the pvp was fun and fast - and most places in the game were open season, although it was realm versus realm.
2-3 low levels could kill a higher level - but depended on player skill - a good player could kill 2-3 others of the same level.

Normalfags.

No thanks user, I already use Excel all day in work.

Fucking hell the redditors at TEST have grown huge. I can't remember anymore, is that empty space or is that valuable?

Spreadsheets are a meme.

if you are retarded enouth to train everything (mining/traiding/science/crafting/combat/…) then yea, you are right …

else, if you specialize in something: no.
Just join a public fleet, if you know the game or a corp if you want to learn.

now, of course if you are a casual or a 13year old who think bigger = better, skip this gale, go with Never Citizen where bigger = better

There's Black Desert, if you can stand the RNG progression. I liked it for a while, especially in the desert itself.

it's four years ago when I played here's what it looks like now

I know the game better then you and I've been out of it for a very long time now, quit writing like a fucking child.

No, they're a method of managing and presenting data.

Seek help.

Why do they avoid the center and upper right? Seems like prime real estate.

PK is not fun to the receiver and we can't have someone not having fun in video games nowadays.

those are where the OG prime top tier players set up and control everything else from, just me talking about them puts me at risk so you must mind your own business there

because its low/highs, you can t conquere it. its NPC space basically

Hopefully Star Citizen™ will save PKing.

The center is highsec or lowsec. The colored ones are nullsec, meaning no rules whatsoever and it is claimable by players and corporations.
Highsec zones are zones where CONCORD (the NPC police of EVE) replies to crime. Anyone can still attack anyone, but CONCORD will come by and fuck your shit in around 15 seconds. Lowsec are zones where CONCORD doesn't come when you commit crime, but your crime will be recorded against the faction you commited it against.

I mean that MMO was particularly shit and all, but what's the point of PKing if you're just going to be severely punished for it?

you get to have that powertrip of being a superbadass l33t faggot while carebears have "something" to fail back on

Are the upper right and other small unclaimed pockets also "sec" zones, or are there other reasons for them being unclaimed?

Ancient Aliens

too hard for pussies like op who just look for low-effort grieving ;)

gid gud scrub

Honestly I've never seen PKing as that big of a deal either way as someone who played Guild Wars. The game is based off of instances with full parties and then the central trade hubs, which most games that would allow PKing prohibit you from doing it in anyways. And as far as PvP goes, there were so many other options - GvG, 4v4 tournaments, Alliance shit, etc.

Now an open world game? Seems kind of silly to make disable it then. It's supposed to be an open world after all. There should be some restrictions though if you intend it to be RPG. It doesn't make sense for a a LG Paladin type to just randomly walk up to somebody and stab them in the back. That would actually be kind of an interesting system, if you intentionally unbalanced classes but put in role-playing restrictions, like an OSR; i.e. Paladin being OP as fuck but with all sorts of restrictions, but Assassin has unlimited ability to go around PKing (and actually getting paid to do it!). A bulletin board where you could put up your own bounties on other players would be a hilarious feature. Or better yet, multiple board. Maybe the game keeps a tracker on PKs, so every unique kill gets added to a count based on the level of the person killed. People could compete for the high scores and be real badasses.

Not in any mmo though.

/thread

Op just want easy way to be competitive…. and yet he complain about how game are easy and for casual.
Op just want to be "the one".
Op just want to play an mmo like current WoW but where everyone exept himself have handicap
OP is just a tremendous faggot

as soon as it become to demanding, $$edgy/incloset casual$$ start complaining

Not sure if underage, BR or both.
Either way, fuck off.

I forgot about the ears in diablo. I used to tell lower level guys that I would help them with a dungeon and then the inevitable turn on them. People would get pissed. I remember one guy I did it to three times in row to. I don't know why the fag believed me I wouldn't pk him anymore. Those were some great laughs and stealing peoples trades.

Ultimately, this.

More or less. If it exists, it's tacked on, and badly.

Also this. It's hard to make money outside of cosmetics in a game where PvP content is a thing. Or, you can go P2W, but then you lose players really fucking quick (especially the people actually interested in PKing).

EVE's one of those weird exceptions, because it's a sandbox MMO in classic style vs the themepark MMO that WoW set the example for. And also

This too, though- PvP sucks in most MMO's anyways because their combat usually sucks. Now, for the MMO's with actually GOOD combat, PvP becomes a lot more of a valid idea. Sadly, nobody seems to want that- or when the combat's good, everything else is terrible.

That never existed. Just look at any "Survival" game with PvP like dayz, rust, etc. Even minecraft servers with PvP. It's just total chaos.

Then you get groups of people who know eachother IRL that just go running ganging up on people. I can only imagine this problem is amplified when you bring levels and experience into the mix. You'll just get a bunch of level 40 no lifers stomping level 5 people, because if they fought anyone else they'd get raped since their build sucks.

So you have to force some sort of mechanism in place, whether it be a bounty, level range restriction or safe zones. A lot of these create weird meta issues though. I doubt there was ever a "Stay on the roads or you'll get mugged" type MMO ever, aside from huge faction wars ones like EvE.

who cant handle what?

wow

no, i'm having to much fun reading this thread where there is some steril debate, searching for answer when, (funny enouth) EvE seems to provide answer to all.

But if you have "anti-EVE" syndrom: check out what happend to Black desert online. It provide the explanation of any question this thread ask regarding :

When BDO was 1st announce it was (almost) EXACTLY:

then the game became your typycal K-mmo grindy game who ends up as a doll game.

well they even add 2 stats at the last minute called "precision" and evasion. on a game where you had to AIM.
this stats a fully artificial stat that allow you to naturally dodge a skill without doing anything (no annimation, nothing)

it affect monster and player. it was done so that Mr casual who just mindlessly farm or buy item in cash shop, can t be defeated by a skilled low level player. (for pve i guess it was done to avoid someone really skilled to level to fast)

thoses stats were implemented at the verry last moment(or verry lazily) to the point where: if you are a swordsman:
no annimation, nothing he just "dodge"

you have to put TONS of precision bonus on your equipment if you wanna fight someone higher level or a monster with higher level than you.
becauses thoses stats aren t even "resistance boost" they are just flat ou miss chance. so without this precision you will miss 9/10 of your attack .(making pve fight last for ages and allowing regen in pvp) it's totall BS, and was made to help the casual.
On a game that was suppose to be skill base.
That s why there is no: item or set level. be it lvl1 or 50+ everyone use the same items because it was supposed to be only a skilled base combat.

TL;DR
just check out BDO's history, the reason behind, and how casual and safe it was transformed (1st pic) (and latter: p2w)

back to my point regarding: all the answer can be found in EVE:

death in EVE have concequences. thus new player can stay realively safe in high sec as ANY: vetera, who tries to kill someone there will lose his ship.(no escape: he will lose it no matter his skill or ship even if he hack and use a titan CONCORD will one shot him)
also: there is something called: insurance

so:
1) eve allow PK anywhere.
2)new player are "protected" by a great insurance system who also highly punished the PK (by destroying his ship and blocking any refund from insurance)
3)see above.
meaning that no "bored veteran" would kill a new player with no reason. unlike World of Edgecraft.

daily reminder that WoW was ALWAYS concidered casual
the only difference here is that the casual of yesterday are now called "hardcore gamer" by the casual of today.

I have mindcandy for you if you want it.

t. I do vidya design docs as a muse and 2 of them feature
'if you wander off the beaten path alone there are players that will hunt you down for rewards' style mechanics?

They're in Jewgle docs, but I can dump view links if anons want them. Looking for feedback anyhow.

t. I do vidya design docs as a muse and 2 of them feature

Should be that.

Here is links:

More complete but still lacking some things. It's 20 something pages long, but one nice feature of google docs is the outline, so you can jump to shit you want to read.
docs.google.com/document/d/11jdujNsFm4oG4XfiplcuDpHgYPxui8ylU9aDt3qA0Q8/edit?usp=sharing

Incomplete, as I'm in the process of writing it.
I cannot into archive, but there was a thread here recently about magic in vidya, which I posted the original draft in. A large chunk is at the bottom of the document.

docs.google.com/document/d/18atmruNvZAJij25SLmDlVM7VPTUCjPAWZHLesTxty1c/edit?usp=sharing

I have even moar writefaggotry about other themes too.

Got one about being a robot that gets continuously shuffled around factions and reprogrammed because you're a war relic from a past age.

Funny thing about RS3 is that the entire PvP scene is dead. I don't mean that there's still like two or three people. I mean almost every single dedicated PKing world has less than 100 players and none of them are probably PKing.

I've picked it up again recently just to see what's changed and I don't know what may have caused this other than EoC completely fucking shit up. Not that it's hard to master. It's a fucking hotbar rotation bullshit. I'll probably make a new thread soon about my experiences with [CURRENT YEAR] since there's so many fucking things to discuss on what the fuck happened.

Age of Wushu is an mmo with complete open world pvp, a skill based combat system, and even in instanced dungeons there are bosses that summon players to fight you.

You forgot to mention it's a pay to win fuckfest unless you play 5-6 hours a day

Retard. The guy you replied to was right regarding OP lack of pk.
Also, albion online is a fertile ground for converting retarded commies pleb army hammer & sickle are easy xp to gather

True but the newest server has no cash shop kung fu sets

Don't forget that they completely removed open world PvP from players that aren't level 65, why have a PvP server if you can't fucking PvP until max level?

A single, major issue killed PKing in online games: the complete refusal on the part of the hostile party to ever engage in a fair fight. The reality is that it's never just a single sneaky rogue in the depts of the forest. It's ten "sneaky" rogues camping in plain sight just outside the safe zone for players fresh out of the tutorial, each one having hacked his client to remove combat animations so he can hit a billion times per second. Most modern gamers can't even handle dying to a fair fight. Imagine what they think when they get killed before his client notifies him that he's under attack. This is why PvP is limited to arenas these days.

You mean a money-laundering scheme for the shitbags faggots of the internet?

Then what you did was finding someone even higher level who kicked the gankers shit in.

Or took one of your own higher level characters and raped him blind.

And what about an NPC faction, that also accepts players, which specifically targets these groups.

And algorithm like, 1 person of note with bounty or habit of banditing/ganking (Invisible to bots, known to server)? Nothing. 10 in one place? Well gee, better send a squad of NPC knights over and create a patrol quest for player members.

First link, jump down to NPC Factions in the outline, scroll down a little bit to Iron Legion.

It may be shilling, but that part in my writefag is EXACTLY what you are asking for. (A solution, not to mention proper anti-cheat being a given.)

The second link already solves the problem by directly putting bounties on PKers. You can kill people for their loot, and keep it, if you can.

If you want to demonstrate your superiority to other players why not play proper competitive games like RTS or Fightans?
PvP in MMO is a rudiment of the past when devs tried different things to see whether they work or not. Open PVP doesn't.

It's pretty sad seeing all these people in this thread acting like they're hardcore for stomping new players. Like it's a matter of skill and not just the fact one grinded out more. It's even worse than assfaggots.

Because Haseo was too edgy. So much so he had weapons with like twenty edges on them.

pretty much this. even in wow vanilla.

Three reasons

1) Casuals. -They can't handle anything outside the carebear handholding community and this extends even beyond PvP to PvE. That's why the most popular MMOs in modern times are all themepark MMOs.
2) Balance. -Balance will always be a nightmare in MMOs and that's because MMOs are always getting new patches and content. It makes it impossible for everybody to have fun so there's always going to be a FOTM class or meta that wipes rapes everyone.
3) Whining. -PvP is guaran-fucking-teed to cause more QQ than anything else you will ever find in the gaming community outside SJW bullshit. Nobody will ever be happy even if they are the current meta and everybody will spam the forums and devs in the worst ways all having to do with PvP. It's a constant futile battle and headache and devs don't want to have to deal with that anymore.

So don't expect the UO era of PKing to ever return again. Never again will any of your enemies drop their hard earned gear upon death just to rage at you in futility until they hire a bounty hunter or elite clan/guild to fuck you up. Never will you mount the heads of your enemies on display in front of your highly desirable plot of land and collect or post rich bounties to settle jewish real estate disputes.

That era is done. MMOs are done. Gaming is done.

Sounds like the FlyFF pvp system back in the day. Man, getting out of jail was a pain.

you said you where really really sorry.

just play eve, you guys are constantly implying eve…

really, what you guys are searching is "sandbox" mmo. because by definition: a sandbox = open pvp (and thus pk) everywhere.
if you wanna stay in the fantasy setting i heard about something called albion online . but i don't know what it is worth

People who like MMOs don't like it when some faggot comes along to stab them to death, and gankcunts don't have the patience to MMO grind. It takes a specialized autist for the combination, which is a very small audience to cater a game towards. Add on to that the fact that people don't like getting constantly shit on, so when the normal autists get ground into shit by the super-autists, they bail for something else.

Of course, on the other hand, there's ASSFAGGOTS for people who really want PVP, so i assume a lot of potential MMO PKers are playing those, instead.

When society shuns competition the entertainment media follows.

Motherfucker go read my shit and gib feadbak.
All you fuckers go read it.

Thread is full of people who like hard mmos whining about how easy and grindy they are these days and ignore some writefaggotry detailing EXACTLY what they want plus bonus shit.

No, it's pic related.

docs.google.com/document/d/11jdujNsFm4oG4XfiplcuDpHgYPxui8ylU9aDt3qA0Q8/edit?usp=sharing

docs.google.com/document/d/18atmruNvZAJij25SLmDlVM7VPTUCjPAWZHLesTxty1c/edit?usp=sharing

I guess only Holla Forums loathes direct linking.

8ch keeps eating the image

Because your playerbase isn't going to last if half of it is constantly being set back by unpreventable deaths that not only force them back to the spawn point but rob them of their gear.

Rising Force was amazing. As I remember the system they created was something I've never seen before or since. They used those honour points or something you could earn or lose depending on how you PVP and quested and all it did was allow you to stretch your epeen. Despite nobody losing items or anything heavy with death penalties of the sort so many people were so attached to their superfluous honour epeen points that they just did anything they could to avoid PVP like refusing to go to the generally mandatory Race Wars where you could gain a ton of honour points if your race wins just so they could hang onto their points in case they die. They even did that force quit exploit I remember so they don't lose their points. I wonder if they ever patched that. The best part I remember was the community. If you were ever ganked by other players there would be tons in the all chat you could call upon because there was so much incentive for them to moralfag as much as there was to PK. One lowbie gets killed in an empty map they share with another race and then tells people in the all chat just once with the cords and suddenly there's a huge fucking race war. It was amazing. There will probably never be anything like that again.

Speak for yourself. The fun thing about being PKed was it served as a motivation for you to get stronger like your favourite heroes in those works of fiction who get beat down by the betters at the beginning of the story only to overtake them all later on. Plus if the community was good you can call upon the moralfag justice players to protect you and retaliate which brings me to my final point. The reason why modern mmorpgs are shit? Because modern gaming communities are shit. Think about it. Years ago nobody knew what the fuck an "SJW" even was and if you told anyone what it stood for they'd laugh at you worse than they laughed at internet white knights in the day. With mmorpgs above all other games it needs a quality community because it's the most social game. All those cornerstones that made mmorpgs great like that helpful famous highbie always around helping or buffing newbies in the lowbie areas or those guys that roleplay and troll using olde english and those guys who always made the community laugh or rally. They're all gone now probably with families or OD'd on the caffeine in or fell to the diabeetus of their dewrito slurry.

There's no "world" with those games. No real sense of war or conquest. They're just arena or lobby games.

Because this isn't 2002. Your average player isn't a cool-headed decent guy, it's either a greenhorn pussyass faggot or a tryhard drama-prone faggot.
Look at BDO, everyone level 50 and above can and will be at least once in their career getting killed in overworld PK. The fresh 50 faggots are asshurt that they can't retaliate because he was farming at a spot and some faggot with 300 AP/DP runs by and one shot him with his RMB; and then there are the veteran faggots being asshurt their epeen ego got injured, and they call their entire guilds to fight each other, make some drama, pull in and affect people in the sideline and ultimately fuck up the entire community.
I still remember when I was playing RO, Louyang south gate was full of faggot 99/50 Hunter waiting for people to appear out of the portal to gank them to get red name. The only thing people didn't have is number, and they patched that up by banding up in Alberta, get on the ferry, board the dock on the opposite side of the map from those Hunters and start creeping up and smash those fuckers' faces in, whether it be an Assassin with Cloak up or even an underleveled Swordie with Endure and Agility Up running towards the faggot ignoring hit staggers, repeatedly use Bash on them to stun them while some underleveled Mage cast a level 10 bolt and murder them in a flash.
That's not gonna happen today. A bunch of newbies get together and get obliterated by an oversized AoE. End of story.

Yeah, that sounds fantastic, aside from that it was a 30 minute time waste on having to deal with what essentially amounts to a power tripping faggot.
PKing is never

You don't really have anything else other than dealing with power tripping faggots anyway. People playing RO for the first time were actually feeling a sense of adventure you faggot, not feeling like playing a grinding simulator 24/7.

A sense of adventure of… dealing with a power tripping faggot and making you want to play something else.
also I can't help but laugh at you

Yeah hold on you didn't actually play did you

Because PKing in an MMO structure blows shit and always has. The biggest problem is that it can prevent people from even playing, so PvP zones are isolated. Survival games are fine about PKing because people have an easy choice to just move server, even to another PK enabled one hoping they won't get denied as hard. It sucks to not be able to do things because of a few fucknuts, not to have lost everything.

No, YOU didn't actually play it, did you?
You didn't have anyone to hold your hand, and the game was played before everyone and their mother was on the same community forum. You wanna know how to change your class? Find someone in-game to ask or read the manual, or better yet, ask the fucking NPC. You want to make a guild? Better be high leveled enough to farm for one or break your newbie wallet to get an emperium. You want to grind EXP? Ask someone around, no themepark map progression for you. You have a quest? Better pay fucking attention to the NPC's dialogues or ask someone who already did that.
Cunts like you think just because the internet blew up and RateMyServer was born 4 years after the game was released means that it has always had a forum where everything is documented. Kill yourself.

In between the massive long sections of grinding pecopecos/stumps/tunnel1/christmasland/whatever.

You're fucking kidding yourself if you think there was anything "adventurous" about the grindfest that was RO.

Peco Peco was level 19, at that level you're supposed to be at Payon Ghost Cave with 10 times the EXP. The Willow were fucking level 4 beginner training ground that drops trunks for the archer job change quest, and the elder willow gave less EXP than the wolf which are like 2 maps away.
Now I know you're a faggot who played the game alone, didn't make any friend to play with and complain that the game is a boring grindfest. Lutie Toy Dungeon had wonderful design as well as soundtrack. You're a faggot who didn't go through the training ground, didn't take the freebies from the personality test, went right into izlude at level 1 and complained. You're cunt with shit taste. Get the fuck off this board and never come back.

Dude RO is and still was a fucking wild west if you didn't know what you were doing. We have now over a decade of experience and sources, but way back when after it first came out it was extremely confusing. Its a non-linear MMO that allows you to go anywhere.

It sounds like you are playing it years after it came out reading a guide for the most efficient leveling.

As harsh as you are, you are correct. He probably did just that and tried to play it like any other MMOs. He probably didn't even care or realize the game has a fucking HUGE backstory/lore hidden in NPC dialogues and in game map clues.

FFS it took me YEARS of constant playing and learning to full understand it. I am glad I was able to be the loremaster for Holla Forums on HeRO. I wanna play again with Holla Forums sometime…

Yeah wouldn't want to trip on your nostalgia trip there faggot. The game's a massive grindfest and there was never anything like you're describing. The best part is no matter how much you claim that the game was some magical shit, it failed and was killed. No amount of you making shit up can ever fix that

Dude now you just sound like a butthurt fag who knew nothing and acted like a spoiled kid wanting things handed to him.

Yeah keep staying delusional you shit taste faggot.

Last time Holla Forums played was on HeRO right? I liked it but it died way too quick, and people didn't seem very keen on renewal so they picked that. I was too, but then I started playing NovaRO and the change of pace actually is kind of interesting, now that a lot of 3rd job balances was put into place.
Renewal was very obnoxious at first but Gravity and the private server community themselves worked pretty hard at salvaging it I guess, and I like the result.

I did too but all the custom shit and retarded rebalancing the devs did on some things threw me the fuck off. Also coupled with college and various other things I simply lost the will to play it. People still post about my lore explanations here and how much they enjoyed them and screencaps and stuff…
;_;

Seems like you need to go back to your dead game circlejerk.

THE ADVENTURE I CAN ONLY THINK OF SPOILED KIDS NOT ENJOYING THIS.

You have to go back.

God forbid you have to find a party to group up in places that aren't easily soloable.
Well yeah if you doing sub optimal grinding for days at time maybe. The best grinding spots are high level intense action.

You have an in game economy for a reason. Use it. If you don't have the cards you want, sell the ones you get. How fucking hard is this to understand? Most of RO should be focused on PvE with PvP being rarely done until near end game. You can do mid level PvP but it rarely exists.

Almost had me user.

lol
Try PvPing without a immune to freeze card there hotshot.
Oh you died on the area transition while the other guys funneled potions to the wizards who just set up a bot to spam it.
WoE was the best!

Its called don't go into WoE unless you are ready. Don't try to do GUILD VERSUS GUILD combat solo. If you aren't given basic gear for that then that is your problem. You have a guild that will support and hunt cards with you. If you are an unsociable prick who cannot get along with others, what the fuck do you expect to happen. If you wanted to actually PvP go to a PvP room where there aren't pre-casts of 4-5 wizards staring you down.

Oh you died on the area transition while the other guys funneled potions to the wizards who just set up a bot to spam it.

It was actually, you just sucked at it and expected it to be a cakewalk.

You're contradicting yourself trying to defend the honor of your MASSIVE ADVENTURE of a grinding game.

Which is it faggisimo

I'm not contradicting myself, I'm pointing out the holes in your logic. You want to rush to endgame like any other MMO and jump straight into PvP. Low rate RO takes weeks to level up characters if playing casually and not autism grinding.

You do not need cards to reach max level. As I stated before cards are in fact a luxury item. You really don't even need them except to improve your classes's abilities further, you can do 99 percent of the game's content with barebones shit.

Once you reach max level after rebirth, most people start new characters using gear they've acquired on others allowing to level in harder areas or quicker.

You can get immunity to freezing at 100 hard MDef too. With 80 to 85 INT, a Crusader would have 86-91 hard MDEF without any gear, and get that final 9-14 points is piss easy with some shitty cards.

But look yon faggot said cards are only a luxury!

Cards can't be a luxury also required you dipshit. The two are mutually exclusive. Somehow the game is 2000 hours of grinding which is adventure in your mind.

In situation, hes wanting to be freeze immune in a guild verus guild combat. An 80-85 INT 'sader would be fucking useless here.

But look yon faggot said cards are only a luxury!

In economics, a luxury good is a good for which demand increases more than proportionally as income rises, and is a contrast to a "necessity good", for which demand increases proportionally less than income. Luxury goods are often synonymous with superior goods and Veblen goods.
Luxury goods - Wikipedia

You can't fucking understand the fact that you don't need them except for situations where you don't end up normally in any class progression. And even then you can still play without them, just not near as fucking effective because you want to be an undergeared retard facing people who spent hours fighting for their castle and access to the guild dungeon.

Again you are trying to say that cards are necessary when they are in fact not. They are merely a helpful item that can be used to speed up grinding or provide better protection.

For example, you CAN go into an active volcano for one of the hardest dungeons in the game with basic gear and no cards albeit you have a party with all right classes working in function. But with cards you can get more resistance to their fire and or do more damage to the fire monsters.

If this is too hard to understand, I hear WoW is still going.

Good thing we're only talking about PvP and PKing in this thread, where they are fucking necessary

Well they're a necessity if he's a faggot who grind Thor's Volcano alone at level 80.

And you were complaining about grinding in between solo play sessions. 0882b4 summed up your play experience succinctly to the point where you acted like a shitty manchild expecting to have everything handed to you on a silver platter.

Hes also the same kind of faggot who wants to go into solo guild versus guild combat ungeared or with basic gear and expect to win.

You still haven't come up with any idea on how RO's not a grinding game. Or even better has some idea of "good" pvp

I never claimed RO wasn't a grinding game, if anything it is THE grinding game.

It actually some of the highest level PvP to ever exist in an MMO. With a near limitless skill ceiling. You wouldn't know that though because you are a fucking casual. Get the fuck out dude.

In what fucking world is spamming 20 AoEs on a entry point INFINITE SKILL CEILING.
I can't even list how many private servers have "don't cast 90 AoEs on the entry point to instant gib everyone who enters" as a rule

The only decent sandbox MMO on the market, and one of few games that understands what MMO is supposed to be.
That no one here plays because it is also spreadsheet simulator.

That's literally the most basic of fucking castle defense. Hell its not even an effective tactic in WoE 2.0. WoE and PvP are two completely different things, again you don't know that. You want to be able to break through a thing called a pre-cast. A precast is a basic defense mechanism that is used to keep out basic ungeared faggots like yourself. There are special classes and gear dedicated to breaking pre-casts. Like LKs/SinXs and DLP professors.

PvP outside of pre-casts is where individiual skill comes into play, again something you haven't experienced. WoE also has special conditions.

Disabled Skills

The follow skills cannot be cast within castles:

Assumptio
Basilica
Cultivate Plant
Endure effect(still gives to you +10 MDEF bonus)
Hocus-pocus (iRO only)
Ice Wall
Sheltering Bliss
Snatch
Teleport
Warp Portal
Dimension Door
Deluge (iRO Only)
Thorn Wall (iRO Only)
Perfect Tablature (iRO Only)

Skills cast outside the castle will not disappear upon entering. Using items that activate the skill will also fail, but Autocast equipment can grant the skills in a castle.
Battle Mechanic Changes

Flee is reduced by 20%.
Long range normal attacks are reduced by 25%.
All skill-based damage except Gloria Domini and Gravitational Field is reduced by 50%.
Traps last 4 times as long.
All knock back effects are disabled. Some skills like Cicada Skin Shed, Shadow Leap and Phantom Thrust may lose some functionality due to this.
Equipment preventing skills to be canceled during casting (phen card and similar items) do not function.

Regular PvP maps do not have this. You probably didn't even know this.
Like for fucking example you can hide-dodge from Asura fist strikes. You have a window from when the short cast bar is activated to hide. Or like .1 second window when the skill completely if you are reveal by skills dont allow you to hide to have the hide status to dodge before being revealed again near instantly.

I'm done here, as you obviously will keep moving goal posts and acting like a retard with no knowledge of the game at all.

You're so done you can't even express the SKILL CEILING AND ADVENTURE of a shitty grindy game where the outcome of a PvP is decided before it even happens.

any of you tried albion online ? how is it?
does the crossplatform stuff works well ?

A Goon infested shit hole.

yea but its fun to watch them burn and not get what they want 17:57

youre honestly the biggest turbo-virgin autists on Holla Forums right now

EVE feels like a second job that i have to pay for the privilege to work at and having some shitty currency to buy more game time being a the in game market just serves as money laundering and a way to make headlines like "WOW LOOK AT HOW MUCH MONEY WAS SUNK INTO THIS MEGA PLAYER BATTLE" even though they just make that estimate based on the price of the gay little time cards that apparently barely anyone buys from how much i get told "but user there's no monthly fee cause grinding for timecards is easy :^)"

Games that let you kill other players and take their stuff, games like Shadowbane, they don't hold a meaningful player base. Not many people are interested in hardcore games where you can strip progress from each other.

But that's not the only problem. Another problem is that games with these features rarely have much to hold non-hardcore players. Games like EVE Online have always enticed players who aren't into player killing. People like to play EVE just to transport and mine. People constantly ask if there is a PvE-friendly way to play the game because they are actually interested in playing the game otherwise. But nobody loads up the Shadowbane emulator just to be a career resource harvester.

The point I'm getting at is that games with loot drop and hardcore PvP are only going to be populated by all 20 dickass tryhards. But if there isn't a bunch of fun stuff for oblivious pussies to wander around having fun with, neither of them are going to be playing the game. Hardcore PvP games need to be marketed to both crowds to actually succeed. Until devs stop being too shit to do so, we're just going to keep seeing games launch with no PvP, and games with hardcore PvP flopping.

WoW still has world pvp, but it's more like "its there" just because players seem to be there. There's no incentive or benefit off it unless you want to grief.
However in legion they made world pvp world quest with very nice rewards so there's that. and all your gear is active outside of battlegrounds/arenas
It's fun, but no incentives make people leave the area of player concentration after doing the quest

world quest*

why are you using sarcasm ? some can have enouth to buy easely 5 plex a month.²²
many just dont buy plex because by the end of the day: 10€/month is cheaper than 2 pack of cigarettes…

looks like you just dont like sandbox mmo.
from what you are saying its not about the gameplay, but the investment you have to do to do something. you argument is litteraly the SAME as thoses playing and defending current wow.

you will never have as much feeling of accomplishment as you have in EvE (or any true sandbox mmo) than in any other game

one exeption though
big battle are boring because of time dilatation… there is nothing worst than a giant battle slowed down 10 time to avoid lags ….

²² you have about 2000plex bought from the market everyday each month.

what i thind great about eve is that aside from a few exeption: you just can t say : i wanna be a thief/pirate for the lulz'
if you want to be a pirate you have to become a real asshole and since you constantly interact with people it s way harder than just being an edgy WoW roleplayer.

not everyone can steal everything from your corp after staying in it for month… or join a group of miner for weeks, knowing them, having fun with them … and finally call the pirates you barely know just to hope they will take you in and betray your 'friends'

also, no game will alow you to create history and having thoses turbo-nerd's actions be place on the spotlight .

in ANY other mmo, at best you create memes (onixia's wipe, leroy jenkins …)

I remember playing a f2p shitfest called DinoStorm where every map outside of town was a free for all where you could attack anyone. You'd get a message asking if you REALLY want to attack the player or if this was just a mistake. If you attacked someone, you got labeled as an outlaw and anyone could attack you with impunity, plus there were these ranger stations that sent cops on your ass and they were pretty tough. It was possible to outrun them with the right gear but they'd never stop chasing you around the map, and if you died you'd drop/lose a random item or two from your inventory, and it was usually something valuable so you didn't wanna do it unless you were maxed and boasting a speed implant. If you attacked someone in a clan or pissed the group off in some way, there was always a big chance of an army of dinosaurs coming to wreck your shit for sneezing in their direction, mid-levels would sometimes lie just to get a clan to stomp someone else. It was all gang warfare.

The whole game was filled with Mexicans & BRs, who would keep all of the fame grinding machines to themselves and they'd block elections constantly to make it impossible to win Sheriff unless they let you. It was impossible to play properly unless you knew a little bit of Spanish since they even the bilingual ones would insist on shit talking you in taco. Everyone was aggressive, paranoid, and very tribal and the whole thing was a great study in prison yard psychology since that's exactly how everyone acted.

I got pretty far solo simply because I avoided PKing the wrong people when I bothered at all, and didn't join a clan (everyone wants you to join so they avoid attacking you) and making friends on both sides of the EN-ES factional war and the major fighting clans at the time just to see if I could. Despite people on maxed carnotaurs chomping the fuck out of level 1-5 newfags on baby compsognathus, it was pretty fun sometimes and satisfying when you managed to kill off some maxed pay2win faggot using gels using nothing but your own timing. Last I checked, they've nerfed PvP heavily by allowing people to have "protection" on maps; they can't be attacked, and they can't attack anyone else without losing their protection status. They also made it so you can't just sit on a council position anymore.

Did you read all the posts in the thread? Except for that one Diablofag and some stories from anons when they were younger, most posts mentioning PKing new players are presenting it as a problem or a dev obstacle, not something to be proud of. I'm not sure where you're getting this from.

God this game is fucking dull.

that s player interaction, or in this case: player taking anoother player hostage and asking for a randsome

it happend quite often, even on the veteran, exept that that was in hight sec, thus concord blow them all up

PK'ing got very stupid under certain conditions, anyway. The worst it got was in a relatively hardcore Tibia server (EXP x3, I think, which still was incredibly grindy because Tibia RL itself is grindy as fuck), where there was a single safe area in the whole game, and it was the small room in which you respawned whenever you got killed, with a single exit. There was another safe area in the bank building, but you had a long way until you got there from the spawn. Another mechanic in the game involved not being able to regenerate HP and mana unless you were outside safe zones, so go figure. The game automatically activated PvP mode whenever you got to LVL 20, and there were absolutely no level restrictions.

Sounds fun, but it got stupid real quick since there were absolutely no limits put in place. Yeah, there wasn't even a level cap, so you could practically keep leveling forever. Penalties after death were also pretty hardcore: you lost several levels upon dying, your whole backpack (quest items included, although most quests contemplated this possibility) and usually even some equipment. Dying was a pretty big deal, and even despite the PK "penalties", the potential benefits greatly outmatched them. So players with level 250 tended to wait in front of the spawn point to kill newbies endlessly in single attacks until they dropped everything, or until they got bored, or until they got to level 19. In exchange, the system gave them a PK skull, which gives you slightly larger penalties upon dying (if you ever die at all, with that absurd level) and a small honor incentive if someone decides to go PKK on them. Getting to the deep ends of the honor system awarded you with optional pig and hero skins, for infamous and famous characters, respectively.

Never managed to get past level 30 because there was this single guy who enjoyed spawnkilling low levels. A truly joyful experience.

That's not to say I didn't have fun with that game's PvP system. I still remember trying to identify potential PK and trying to avoid them (although that was impossible in the spawn), or apologizing to another slightly higher level player for accidentally throwing a spell against him. or this guy who PM'd me advising me not to go into the depot's balcony, which was not protected against PvP, because one of the guys waiting there told him he wanted to kill me as soon as I got there; I did it anyway, going full frontal against the guy, and he managed to kill me but not before the last tick of my poison killed him as well. We got back there and started fighting again and again until we lost all XP points and had to stop due to falling below level 20. We later laughed it out, and overall ended being a friendly experience, mostly because it was fair. But getting spawnkilled without being able to fight back or even recover from the last attack? It was frustrating.

I liked how Wakfu handled PKing. Abusers would get a PK flag on them, and upon dying, would get thrown into a jail, where they had to wait some minutes depending on their crimes to get out, without the possibility of logging out and waiting it out (in fact, you could mine coal in jail to get out of there more quickly). There also were player guards, who voluntarily joined their nation's army to protect it against invaders or outlaws; think of a virtual police who got intel on PK to hunt them down. I actually wouldn't mind a game with heavier death penalties and wild PvP if it had some systems put in place to discourage going around killing people mindlessly just because you have a high level and good equipment, and people who are higher level than you just don't give enough of a fuck to stop you because there are no incentives.

Nah, I'm speaking for game devs and publishers, retard.

Whoa, even in WoW??
VANILLA??
So oldschool dude, oh my god.

The first part of this thread is where most of it happened

the fact that you have to put sarcasm here imply that you are really thinking of WoW as a "wow man so oldschool" aka: do not through your though on other please

i said this in regard to all thoses faggot venerating WoW vanilla to the point where they will create countless thread about private server who will only last a month and level countless character again and again on countless private server.

The main issue is that there's no reason to go into the wilderness, there's better drops available outside of the wilderness, the training methods outside of the wilderness are far more profitable and the xp gained within is not really that much higher, by around 4-7k per hour.
I think the highest level weapon drop you can get within the wilderness is level 78/85 degradable equipment?
When there's far safer options where you can get level 80-92 non degradable equipment and make way more money at zero risk to your items because gravestones still exist, going into the wilderness is a fools errand tbh.
Jagex need to remove the current riskless death system and go back to the old system tbh, then they can start putting high level combat gear into the wilderness, then maybe the wilderness might not be dead.
Also maybe remove no cost lodestone teleports to everywhere on the map so that the price of runes might rise again and people actually start runecrafting in the abyss instead of sitting at the runespan all day.

Just play OSRS, it's still active

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks of .Hack//GU when PK'ing is brought up.

Hey fugger, if you're still alive, your first one wasn't bad. I was a bit skeptical in general on the use of NUMBERS with actual fighting, because I feel that those can get in the way of actual skill, but I liked your death system. I think people might find ways to circumvent it (more than likely making a new character if shit went downhill fast) but it has a shitload of possibilities which was nice. I think magic in it could cause a lot of issues, especially the NUMBERS and SKILL thing, but it was pretty nice. I'll probably read your second one later on when I get some time.

I did really dig limiting certain classes and the way the possibility of player made legendaries were done, I think that is actually a decent system of handling it there, especially since it'd be a low chance. I would rather if the naming of a legendary based on it's skill would be done by the player, but I guess it'd be better if, "XxDA BLUNT OF LIFExX" wasn't a quarterstaff or hammer you would see being swung around.

PvP in MMOs is terrible concept to begin with because it's always "player with more hours put into the game and therefore higher level and better gear">skill

I thought ganking meant gang killing, as in a 2 or more players gang up on one.

Kill the other player who is taking up the zone's quest spawns or resources.
Honor points to contribute to the 10% discount on all goods to save 10 gold on the total costs of a mount.
Revenge.
Helping other people get revenge.

why live?

This.

Free reign of PvP in open world MMO's is and always will be autistic cancer.

WoW's world pvp consisted of level 60's 1 shotting people in red ridge for 5 hours straight.

literally never happened outside of rose tinted stories

RPG's and PVP don't mix. MMO's and PvP don't mix. It will never be seen as anything but a mini-game.

You can not have multiple classes each with 15+ spells and have the game be balanced in a hotkey based tab target combat system. The amount of variables are unthinkable.

There's a reason why WoW PvP as an esport is completely irrelevant meanwhile starcraft brood wars still to this day has a huge following.

Underage plz go

The lack of incentives to hunt PKs is part of the problem, but the even bigger part of the issue is that PKs generally do not accept the same level of risk as someone doing other activities. Some retarded gankers think they're the ones accepting all the risk, but reality is its the grinders, miners, explorers, etc. who accept most of the risk in PVP games. Boils down to the fact that PKs are looking for a fight, and others aren't. It changes the dynamic completely.

Archeage had a system that sounded good on paper but it fucking blows in action because it's the traders who accept all the risk in a fight. If PKs had something to lose of equal or even greater value, that would balance it out a bit… but nope, only traders stand to lose. EVE has the same issue.

Ganking is selling counterfeit drugs. At least, that's what the term was being used for in the late eighties and nineties. You could get "PKed" for ganking people, though.

PK zones are fun in theory

but lets face it every encounter is going to be unbalanced as fuck and just frustrating

The death of PKing in MMOs comes from the degeneracy of modern game design and pandering to larger markets, resulting in two key points of failure on almost all modern MMOs: The removal of consequence and the suppression of player agency.

The removal of consequence is more damning directly to PKing, for even with PKing in a game without consequence it becomes a very shallow experience that usually only serves the purposes of griefing or canned faction warfare. This also ties into death penalties and other failure states carrying consequence as a larger flaw in most modern MMOs, but it can be summarized that if there is nothing to be gained from PvP activity and nothing to be lost from it as either an aggressor or victim, then it serves no purpose in a community or design space other than throwing a bone to people who actually wanted to play a videogame so they can pretend their game has a modicum of meaningful player interaction.

The latter reason, the suppression of player agency, is the throbbing tumor that has turned numerous prospective MMOs into glorified single player games until you reach arbitrary multiplayer content gates or the endgame. Developers and Publishers of most modern MMOs do not respect the player's ability to make decisions and weigh their outcomes in any capacity, so they simply remove any room for error or conflict. Developers can simply not trust the lowest dregs of players to do things like understand the risk of PK-friendly environments and act accordingly, or to work with others to overcome PvP content; and in doing so instead of punishing these players, they cater to them by neutering the availability, purpose, and viability of PKing until PvP content is smothered away or locked in instanced, safe-play arenas.

There's also numerous other things that drag PKing down into the forgotten realms like widespread ineptitude when it comes to world design, the absolute inability for many developers to create engaging progression systems, but that's all suited for another time; the issues of MMO design are highly linked and every flaw and failure can be traced to a dozen others. PKing being phased out wasn't a goal, it is simply a symptom of mainstream game design's mind-numbing failures.

It's like halofags talking about fps design.

This fucking thread is some sort of breeding ground for underage morons who see vanilla wow as some ancient proto MMO.
Do everyone a favour and get out, go talk about how fallout 3 makes you feel nostalgic with your ribbit buddies.

Carebears killed it. They've even turned carbear into "hate" word on most forums for games so you can get banned for calling them what they are. Normalfags destroy everything.

Guess you never played eve then OP.

PKing stopped because WoW styled themepark MMOs took over and proved to be a lot more profitable.
EVE Online is the best current MMO there is. You can kill and be killed everywhere, and greater risk means greater reward (going into deeper, less secure space).

That's pretty much the rub. Traditionally the penalty for killing someone is now the person who did it can be killed without penalty for some period of time. Which is akin to punishing a burglar with a sum of cash.

The worst part being is that for every 2 or 3 players interested in open world pvp and immersion, about 100 or so just want to grief someone. So there's more incentive to simply crush the whole system rather than find a way to make it equitable.

you sound like the biggest turbo-virgin on Holla Forums right now

Constant PK:ing was a development phase in MMO:s. Early MMO:s played exactly like the early CRPG:s with multiplayer, but they just increased the player count to absolute madness, and expanded the maps to insanity.

What saved those games was that the players had grown up playing old CRPG:s, and tabletops, and knew that PK:ing just to piss people off is not as fun as actually playing the game with your friends and others. You formed a party and went on killing shit, while players more into politics formed alliances and waged war. No raiding party under a local lords banner attacked a group of adventurers, since they were potential future recruits, and brought wealth to the area/city.

PK was there, but it was localized in edgelord outlaw partys and kept in control by city guards, and constant raids to local bases of bandits. Shit was weirdly in chaotic balance, and fun as all fuck.

TL;DR: What killed PK:ing was the players. They turned over time to absolute fucking cancerous assholes.

You're a fucking retard my man. It's cool that your epic click-to-move autism simulators were fun for you when you were 12, but it's irrelevant to the conversation.

The fact that you think a 12 year old game is anything but ancient is also retarded. How old does a game need to be before you can classify it as old? Or do you just only consider things old relative to your own age you balding miserable autistic faggot?

Going into the deep wilderness because of level 3 treasure scrolls made me sweat my ass off, especially if you actually got the treasure and it was worth loads. The way that the deeper you go the bigger the level difference in people who could attack you was a pretty good system too