In order to get people over to our side one can't throw contempt and insults at them.
But my God, they make it so hard. They're the most hateful, self-serving and idiotic bunch there is. They leave me wanting to personally strangle each one of them.
What do?
I haven't a clue. There's never been a time in my life when I understood the right wing. It's literally fighting for selfishness and the ability to trample the less fortunate underfoot so you can have as much power and wealth as possible at the expense of others. I do not even understand why anyone beyond Porky votes for them, let alone why anyone would be ideologically committed to their ideals.
Why don't you? It's a noble cause!
I'd really like to know what exactly is wrong with their brains.
How do people become like this in the first place?
Anyone who wants more people here, wants to associate more with reddit, wants to "convert more American democrats", and simultaneously, convert American Republicans (notice, only American political parties), by means of nothing short of jokes and mental masturbation of accelerationism. To not work on ways of managing to improve their conditions in Capital, but to throw "well crafted arguments or jokes" at them
Is perhaps not intentionally, but probably cointelpro.
This goes also for "raiding", or targeting specific individuals or members of websites, that draws the ire of the "other side", which draws the ire of us.
So, if you see any of this shit you should probably, not nod your head in agreement.
But actually demand our user base come up with solutions, solutions that don't involve conversion by jokes and not requiring us to be someone's personal army.
Know when to stop talking, walk away when you want to punch them. Don't expect them to become reds overnight - but plant the seed of doubt in their head, make them question if the rich are on their side, and expose them to a worldview which reflects their material reality far more closely than their current one.
It's not easy desu, I used to do it a lot more than I do now, but it gets frustrating. I know it's doable though; I've converted a couple in my time.
Make them question how meritocratic things really are. Make sure they realise 'the rich' aren't 'that petty bourgeois guy with the nice car'
Being self-seving is good. If anything the problem is that they aren't self-serving enough, or rather that they have difficulties discerning their self-interest long-term.
In my experience as long as your narrowly focus on economics people will listen and keep discussing even if they disagree. It's social/societal issues that make people permanently close down.
Find a thing to agree with them on, and slowly try to direct them to it.
I have right wing friends, and even I've been able to convince them that Capitalism isn't all that great.
they still call it crony capitalism tho
Life without self sacrifice isn't good, regardless of what you're aware of, you live and you die, and you do so in service of the better whole of people around you.
Internally, you can justify contradiction any which way, but life inherently sacrifices itself for the betterment of its future.
I don't think there's a form of social vertebrate that organizes on an aware level that it must only serve itself. Even if it thinks it is, it is almost always acting in the benefit of the broader scheme, even if it seems contradictory to them.
spooky af
Just be glad that you happen to not be such a hateful self serving idiot.
Just listen to what they have to say, assume they have good intentions (after all we both have the same basic goal of making the best society we can), and show basic empathy.
It is what I do with you guys.
Not everything is a spook because a spook is based on a cultural concept. I'm not talking on biology, but just the definition of what a social primate works on doing, or attempts to, beyond its own recognition of such.
It doesn't always work out, and the idea might be hard to grasp that something can work their lives for the betterment of the pride or society regardless what they do and end up confused and angry when they can't, collapsing the order of everything in order to save it in the face of evidence
But my point being that pure self interest isn't possible, I wouldn't even think preferable on a surface level.
More evidence of this, you need other people, your mind starts laboring under less and less optimal conditions the more alone, self interested, isolated you become. The reason solitary confinement can completely fuck someone up in a short span of time.
At your most self interested you are self sacrificing.
Reported for pol subversion
I was rightwing in highschool, but I grew out of it.
I can't imagine going back to that way of thinking now. It's so stagnant and constraining. They fight to go back to some magical time where there was no "degeneracy". I don't understand how someone can enjoy rigid, arbitrary, hierarchies either. There's no joy in it for me. I can understand why some people may be conservative and "traditional" in their own lives, but pretending this needs to be enforced has always seemed silly even when I called myself right-wing. People's personal background, reasoning, and psychology are too complex for me to really condemn them in that way. It's taking specific fragments of their lives and drawing sweeping conclusions.
I think conservatives act in this completely annoying and obnoxious manner because they were lead to believe that they're being besieged. They see themselves as the last bastion of "proper" behavior against an onslaught of decaying values brought by outsides forces in the format of everything, from teenagers and new music styles to crime and immigration. And they also think these forces are legitimized and enabled by well-meaning but naive and sensitive progressives who don't understand the evil they're unleashing, and who think society must be reshapen in order to accomodate its new destructive urges.
As a reflex, even completely banal shit about their views and lifestyle become points of pride and things that need to be stressed again and again. It's all designed to frustrate this imaginary liberal observer who will not withstand their old ways. There are conservatives out there who won't even shut up about the fact that they eat meat, because they made the brief frustration of a potential vegetarian bystandard the final goal of their personality. This is why they always seem so confrontational, belligerent and hateful. This is why they often spend entire afternoons on youtube watching videos of conservative pundits "destroying" feminists and videos of instant karma where like, a white former navy seal will knock out a black thug who tries to rob him or whatever. It suits their self-image of this trapped individual being able to fight back.
I know this doensn't answer your thread because I kind of hate them myself, but idk once you realise how it's just insecurity and how the hatefulness is just a defense mechanism against imaginary threats it's easier not to get upset at some of their antics.
This
I swear this is underlying cause of it all.
educate urself :^)
Very interesting, what made you grow into it and out of it more specifically? What was the moment when you realized 180 degrees was the way to go?
Good post, would read again.
I try not to hate rightwingers but my parents pay for my internet still so I have to behave.
Try to hear them out. Unfortunately you will only strengthen their resolve and reinforce stereotypes that leftists are all militant SJWs if you start with ad hominems, "Dats waciss" and other such shit. As you said
Gotta listen a little bit, as much as it sucks. Thing is is keep refuting their arguments. Keep proving them wrong. Keep countering their "evidence".
Even if you can't get through to that specific person, maybe somebody who reads what you said and is still on the fence agrees with you and rejects their ideology. If instead you concede defeat that person never hears the counter argument and falls into their bullshit
Do they know you are an incel?
I wouldn't be so relaxed and at ease in a place where the only thing saving me from certain, agonizing death is some centimeters of glass.
For the alt-right at least, you're wrong.
Throw insults and solid arguments at them. You don't even really need great theory, just answers to every stupid question you can think of and a quick way to explain why "any capitalist state I want is a stateless, moneyless society" is retarded and they're retarded.
Saying "proletariat" over "working people" would be a bad idea when talking to many workers, but fascists like anything old-sounding it could help make them feel stupid. Obfuscate that shit until they can't stay on topic without asking you questions.
Be a little more mature.
We don't want to genocide you, it's just we have more important things to worry about than petty racial pissing contests, the great harm done by bourgeois society is not only that capitalists seize a large share of the profits of each industrial and commercial enterprise, thus enabling them to live without working, but that all production has taken a wrong direction, as it is not carried on with a view to securing well-being to all. For this reason we condemn it.
It is not self hate but a desire to have ourselves collectively fed, sheltered, and well off.
What do you even think the "Alt-Right" is???
Post your rare Berias.
Man you're a bit of a retard aren't you?
I shall.
I am honestly trying to figure out your point. Do you think that they are all An-Caps or something?
Why are you being so defensive, Comrade?
Do only ancaps attempt to argue that various capitalist states are examples of communism and why it is a failure?
Don't let them get to you, let you get to them. They're suffering from capitalism too, they are just unsure of the source.
Think of it like you're a doctor with a patient who is convinced something is wrong with his leg when he in fact has lung cancer and you can't begin doing proper treatment until you convinced him it is his lungs that are the problem, but he's angry and very insistent it's his leg. How would you approach this? Get angry and offended at him back or work on more effective ways of convincing him it's his lungs that are the issue?
Trick him into getting the lung medicine.
someone post the "super-capitalism" meme
The Alt-Right is less "Your economics are bad" and more "Communism is bad because 🍀🍀🍀Bronstein🍀🍀🍀 was a Jew". Most of the Nazis and Fash guys are on the same economic page as us. Just need to be DeSpooked on the JQ.
They really aren't on the same economic page as us at all. Their racism is only possible because they have a retarded fascist tier understanding of economics.
For a very different definition of "good" maybe.
"working man" and Asserist entryism
The only way to flip the Nazis is to infiltrate their echo chamber.
We must start visiting 4/pol/ regularly and participate in all their discussions, sow discord and disagreement between them and ever so slowly move them to the left.
We should be able to flip at least half of the board now that Trump is president (4/pol/ has always been contrarian). But because we are right and they are wrong, they will never go back to being right-wing again.
We don't have to do anything, that picture is pretty spot on. 4chan has always been contrarian, give it a year or so and Holla Forums will go back to libertarianism and conservatism
But we don't want them to go back to libertarianism. We want them to see the light and that's why we need to press hard when the time is right.
The alt-right is VERY easy to bring to convert to anti-capitalism.
First you have to realize they don't really give a shit about capitalism. For them the economy is a tool, not a goal. They only really care about social/societal issues (the superstructure). The only reason they don't oppose capitalism is because they don't realize most of what they consider as "degeneracy" is a direct consequence of capitalism.
So how to talk to them?
- Never ever express support of socially/societally liberal causes (illegal migrant amnesty, gun control, etc…)
- Discuss gateway movements like Asserrism
- Discuss authors that highlight how what they consider "degeneracy" is the direct consequence of capitalism (left-wing/Marxist theoreticians like Adorno or more recently Michéa but also literary writers with a Marxist background like Houellebecq)
You will never make turn them into liberals but it should be fairly easy to turn them into anti-capitalists. In fact the only reason the alt-right even exists is because there is no longer a significant non-liberal political movement on the left or rather that it's inaudible. Pre-60s all those alt-righters would have joined their national communist parties. European communist parties used to be extremely conservative on mores when they were still mass movements. Liberal ideas were considered bourgeois.
just try being very boring and passive aggressive like chomsky instead. then people will take you seriously no matter what
Please no. It's better to get one sympathetic to communist ideas than one dedicated reskinned nazi.
No, it's not. 'rightism' isn't even a thing. It's just a term your side have for anyone that disagrees with your analysis and conclusions.
I know. Liberals are literally retarded.
what's every communist party
and that's why you will never understand
I spent 8 years in 4chan regularly. A great deal of it is on Holla Forums.
We just should be politically incorrect with them, specially when it comes to race.
You can earthier be a liberal and silence them when they talk about why Jaws are porky or why Blocks criminals. Or you can engage in a serious discussion to explain to them why those two ethnicities are over represented in crime/porkiness…
alt-right, new right, and right wing libertarians does actually engage in their fucked up ideology in a "good faith" to save their "people", we here offer a wider solution that is for all people, and a real solution not porky's spook to blame each others.
We shall REDpill them.
It shows…
What's your point, comrade?
everyone is already redpilled on economy. for fuck sake, there is a Socialism in Not Socialism. instead, maybe you should become redpilled on race.
[email protected]/* */ Socialism
Most 4/pol/ are just capitalist zealots that think more capitalism will make them a better country. They are just cuckservatives who hate Jews maybe because they got scammed by Israel for long and there's no sings of Jesus coming yet.
For your race BS. Ever heard about socio-economic reasons?
If your race BS was true while would I became a weak beta white supremacist while you admit Jaws are the most smart, successful, plotting all kind of 69D chess while they are I few? I would just become a Zionist? why choose the losing ethnic nationalist side?
that's what alt-right wants, white zionism. and that's why the jews fear us.
ever heard of Africa?
I'm partly Jew, and a Muslim. I would just go with one of the two groups that you guys claim they are winning already.
...
It doesn't matter whether we win them over to our side or not. Capitalism will be brought down by a change in the material conditions, not Facebook likes or retweets. There's no point trying to fight the gargantuan budgets and capabilities of the right-wing media and government psyops teams.