Richard Wolff sent me here

if you like wolff you probably wouldn't like bordiga. he's just for the sort of people who are critical of 20th century leftist failures, but who also want to implement all of the exact same policies.

Try reading Wolff's book contending economic theories instead. digamo.free.fr/wolffresnick12.pdf

This is a site excluded to nigger faggots. If you can deal with this, then you are cordially welcome to fuck my ass.

This is like the first day of school for you.
"W-would you like to complain about IdPol and post communist waifus with me?"

Sometimes Im reminded that the autism meme is more than just a meme

I like some things about Wolff, but dislike others. I like Wolff's analysis of economics, its interesting to listen to. However, he seems stuck in syndicalist ideas when capitalism adapted to syndicalism in '68. He's very ideological, putting energy behind groups like the Green Party and Syriza. Which isn't horrible, and maybe its more of a tactic for influencing the left towards radicalization more than anything, but I really feel that there isn't much room for ideological government in the age of cybernetics and post-stagflation neoliberalism.

But then when those people do get in office, the left sees that they fail and then radicalize to the left like bonkerz. Like in France right now.

d-do you want to p-play pretend with me onisan??

PS how do you make little flags next to your name? Or is it geochronolocation and you're from Catalonia in '36?

do you mean syndicalism as in unionism
and this is bad?

You say this like its a bad thing.

reply - show post options - flag:

under the paste file it shows post options. Click none and see flags.

No, I say it like its a good thing! I canvased for Bernie Sanders for 4 days! And kinda like I said, I'm not in his head, but taken at face value he comes off as somewhat naive.

thanks bruh

I'm confused

What Wolff agitates for is far more than what capitalism accommodated for in the 60's. Our current political economy, at least in america, are controlled by a highly centralized group of businesses and their respective owners, who influence politics through throwing money at lobbying groups, think tanks and mass media. Consider what happens if the ownership of, for example, 60% of productive forces were owned by cooperatives. That's a massive transfer of power away from capitalists. Thanks to the high amount of centralization caused by capital accumulation, this means that there are only a handful of institutions that need to be put under worker control to begin a transition to socialism atm.

I'm a different anarchist and I sympathize with stalinists and socdems.

Bueno

That's counter-ideological, if anything.

Ideology is consistent approach. Green/Syriza/Bernie/Corbyn (commonly known as SocDem) are primarily opportunists.

It is also far less than what actual Socialists were demanding.

This requires transfer of wealth on an immense scale. The one you are unlikely to get (without evil Communists) and to keep (without death squads).

What Wolff actually argues for is not co-op ownership, but co-op management. He is not going to get either, obviously.

What else do you need except army?

While capitalism itself is highly centralized, its tools of control are not. Out of the 1940s fear of nuclear induced collapse, and further provoked by the threat of insurrection in the '60s, cybernetic and very globalized tools of governance were developed. Part of this transition is a globalized system of governance in which the actual mechanisms of power are difficult to pin down. The current pains in Greece aren't the result of a tough Greek bourgeoisie, or the American bourgeoisie, so much as a globalized and highly complex network of bourgeois. And the austerity and austerity-like programs that the world has been enduring for the last 40-odd-years aren't the result of greedy capitalists, so much as an attempt to increase aggregate supply in the context of a global economy with a stagnant GDP and runaway inflation.

When I say that capitalism has adapted, I don't mean to say that the goals of Wolff, etc… have been accomplished within the context of capitalism, but that his tactics (again, taken at face value) may not be effective at creating socialist experiments. Where we see success is mostly in contexts where the climate is insurrectionary, like in France, Chiapas, Rojava, and the United States in a week.

Maybe functionalist is a better word. I meant ideological in the sense of believing that the application of ideas to governance can yield positive change.

It's called Reformism.

ok yah, ur on point bruh

Hello newfriend! Do you like Max Stirner & Egoist Anarchism?

memearrows

No, I despise bourgeois individualism.

STIRNERITES BTFO

Welcome mate. One of us, one of us, gooble gobble.

...

Is there any other kind?

It's egoism, not egotism

DELET THIS

wow radical first philosophy u got there spookman

Ease of convenience == prescriptivism

lol k ther budy

this level of equatingism

...

...

Didn't you just rail against prescriptivism and now you're railing against me for not following your prescriptivism? Or do you have a special snowflake prescriptivism?

Spooks are a cool concept. Im not a fan of the extreme eurocentricism and racism tho.>>1234758

This isn't me lol. 'Individualism' is a spook

P.S. Can you tell who the OP is in a thread?

top fuckin kek

Uh, what?
Are you sure you know what "spook" means?
No this board doesn't have post IDs.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_Max_Stirner

Nope.
The horrors of anonymity. You can be whoever you want, and so can everybody else.

unless you strat tripfagging

Well, that's the problem when you are not a superpower and the economy is shit.
Also, that's because people don't want actual change. They just want to be able to buy a new iPhone.

And this is why we need a dictatorship of the proletariat, no elections and so on.

It's basically impossible to uniquely identify someone on Holla Forums unless they use a tripcode.
8ch.net/faq.html#what-is-a-tripcode

Using a tripcode is generally frowned upon because it looks like you're seeking attention. Only use one if your identity is very important to the thread (eg. you're playing a game where you are the GM).

In fact, you shouldn't even really use a name.

Haha, no I'm just going to call it whatever is in my self-interest to do so for propaganda purposes due to its counter-revolutionary nature

Anarchist Communism

Spooky. That's not the same thing as Ownness. You are setting an arbitrary standard outside yourself to follow. Hedonism is a spook. Read Stirner.

Who cares? The whole philosophy's circular garbage.

Wew. Care to explain?

Mods can. Regular users - no, unless OP uses a trip.

We need some thread IDs for a proper conversation, but BO refuses to implement such an abomination unto Holy Anonymity (is it because it reduces importance of mod status?). Hence, use of trips. Can't be disallowed. Though they seem to reset now (unless you use scripts).

Ye. Individualism is not a particularly powerful tool if you're trying to build unions (of egoists).

Tripcode test.

nice test

now drop that shit

Also, some formatting help: 8ch.net/faq.html#how-do-i-format-my-text

thanks

You should havve done "TiqqunAgain (You)!ZhtopgeDMk" so it looked exactly like I did it to me, except for the bold and italics

Please kill yourself.

So tell us about Tictac or uhm… Tiquin, OP.

i knew i couldn't trust tripfags, go away with ur bate!

Done!

well, its an antibiotic

medindia.net/drug-price/gatifloxacin/tiquin-400-mg.htm

He sent me here too. I'm actually involved in [email protected]/* */ Thanks for sponsoring the economic update.

Welcome!

Thanks! This place seems a bit unhinged and kind of profanity-ridden but I'm OK with that

Yeah conversations are very raw but that also makes them very honest. Many of us prefer that instead of heavily moderated conversations where people are afraid to speak out in fear of getting banned.

Indeed. Anonymous imageboards are about as far as you can get from normal culture and they tend to attract people who feel socially outcast or downtrodden.
I like it because it's a place where pretty much anything can be discussed and people care more about the content of posts than the identities of people behind them. It's one of the few places where it's even possible to honestly discuss certain highly taboo problems in society.

A lot of the profanity doesn't mean anything.

Like for instance I might call myself an Amerifag to say American. No idea why, its just been like that for while on chans. Not even an insult particularly

Nowadays I feel as if the divide between the downtrodden and "normal" people is getting real blurry. I would consider myself normal but every day as I get older I turn into more of a loser as the hope of a comfortable middle class life slips away

Weird but ok

This.
Normalfag is an insult, but "normal" is the insulting part. "fag" just functions as a grammatical suffix to make it into a noun/pronoun instead of an adjective.
The same is true of things like samefag, tripfag, namefag, etc.

are you a Holla Forums memer

The implication on imageboards of everything being a -fag is that everything you and I like is terrible. It's sort of embracing the natural hostility and turning it into a common phrase that people don't get upset at eachother for saying.

lol what the fuck was stirner talking about?

how do you feel about richard wolff's democracy fetish?

WE GIVE IT TO YOU RAW

ONE OF US ONE OF US ONE OF US

Stirner was talking about how the Europeans viewed the world, his writing style was a primitive form of having a 3rd person talk about concepts which he then deconstructed, today we do that by using quotes. It's important to view this in context.
That doesn't make it a spook, I think you should actually read Stirner instead of taking quotes out of context.

They're called "imageboards".

Please don't, tripfagging is cancer.

Even in his days we did it by using quotes. (Shocker, I know!) Ever read anything other than that ridiculous piece of shit book by mr. spookfessor?

Maybe you just suck at reading comprehension; that's not how Stirner wrote. Go back to sucking off Marx.