The industry is shit, and we're all to blame

It's nothing new to say "The videogame industry is shit", but it's specifically shit because nobody has come up with a better paradigm of how everything should work. This goes for how companies are run, to "awards", to "journalism", and so on. It doesn't help that you faggots can't agree on how things should work, so we're stuck with the same old shit.

We need to start a list of shit that a game needs and does not need. A "constitution of vidya" of sorts.

DISCUSS

Shameless self bump because Holla Forums shitting itself earlier

The problem is gaymers don't act as a cohesive consumer base.

If we all said no to day one DLC, microtranscations, play to win, gun skins, etc–then that shit would disappear.

Just like "paid modding".

But the videogame market is diverse, and most kids are suckers and jumps–and manchildren are easy to brainwash and get them to be loyal consumers.

So yeah, it is our fault for not demanding perfection all the time.

you're dumb. Vidya is not shit because we don't have a "better system", it's because this system is lucrative for the kikes at the top and no one objects to it. Most people are ok with microtransactions and DLC and paid online. And no game needs or does not need anything, that is too sweeping of a statement.

Shit idea, shit thread.

Then why don't we brainwash them to not be niggers?

You don't need to demand perfection. You just need a generally flawless system of quality to point to when reviewing a game, so you can effectively call out what's shit as shit.

Again, we need a "constitution of vidya". One that isn't written by cucked redditards.

Holla Forums objects but we don't do anything outside of here.

By allowing quality to be purely subjective in the mainstream eye, you subject yourself to postmodern slavery.

the market is shit because making high quality games is more time consuming and less profitable than shitting out sequel #5235
unless you can somehow change that things will remain as they are for the forseeable future

lol nice Joke

Brainwashing is easy
Undoing Brainwashing is hard

How would that be enforced? Even if literally everyone here got on board and boycotted every game and developer that didn't comply it wouldn't matter. 2,000 lost sales are insignificant. Unless you have some plan to convince normalfags this is just a thread for autists to spin their wheels and demand someone else make everything better.

is there any industry where the consensus of how things should work has been achieved and further more going by your standards OP by it's consumer base?
didn't think so

Also this

I agree that a good number of Holla Forums have no principles or standards as consumers like the rest of the cancerous videogame industry. But there are some of us who avoid many cancerous practices of the modern day industry.
I do agree that we as consumers have contributed to the fall of our own industry but there is still blame on the companies because they put those practices into place.

I think Everyone here on Holla Forums (who is worth a damn) would be happy if we only had niche games that would come out, I personally wouldn't care if the other major video game companies died out. The people who are dependent on Japanese AAA games are probably cancerous on the idol DLC spectrum and the people who just buy everything AAA that western marketing shits out would eventually leave to do other normalfag shit. I don't mind the indie games (also mods) that come out. there are a number of creative diamonds in the rough that show that there are devs out there who do care about gaming and are willing to put time to make something that is worth a lifetime.

Except supposedly "profitable" games become progressively less profitable, and many companies become shit after a very short period. They just think it works because of short term profits. Remember, most CEO's are dumbfucks and are just puppets for ((investors))) who dictate their actions and usually don't even play games.

The issue is convincing smaller scale developers not to go for AAA or to be bought out by them. Rather than a handful of companies with a stranglehold on the majority of property, the ideal vidya scenario is a broad range of developers all working on a range of products- from the small and niche to the larger and more lucrative (or "AA"). In order to do that, we need to support smaller independent developers to achieve success. And in order to do that, we need to hold them to a specific standard that we know we can influence them to follow.


But not impossible, user.


It's not about absolutes- it's about size and numbers. Gamergate made national fucking headlines because a couple of anons were laughing at a slut being a slut and then got shadowbanned for doing so.

You create snowballs and roll them down hills.


Right, which is why I recommend we get together to share our principles. It's also why I prefer to stay on Holla Forums. Because even though there's plenty of populist faggots here still, there's always at least a few men of principle.

Exactly. The foundation is there, we just need to build the pillars atop them.

I guess for starters games should play 60 frames or more on their respective port. Then be playable and have haptic feedback in order for their games to be playable. at that point things would have to be compared to the pinnacle of their genre which is where tastes and opinions would deviate.

I would definitely take out any modern game journalist from ever weighing their opinion on a game or judging their merits.

k

Agreed. Even the fucking Dreamcast had this shit in some games. Totally unacceptable in THE CURRENT YEAR.

Yep. Even a lot of the old ones, too. Remember, people at one point thought adam "making the snort into a sport" sessler was "based". Judgement on merit is crucial here in all regards.

Everything on NES and Genesis runs at 60 fps mate.

Yep. I was using the Dreamcast as an example because it's a hilariously defunct console that tried to do too much, yet even it had 60 FPS games as the standard.

Meanwhile

Holla Forums has made me a jack of all trades in terms of vidja skill and in general i play every genre or at least have tried them all
now when i went to some meetups for say a lan party or a fighting games meetup. Id be ok at the games but every1 would have obscene skill compared to me.
what bothers me was in every instance when i asked if they played other games they would say " yer man cod or insert current AAA trash" they didnt want to know more about other vidya

in the end the vast majority of "consumers" are fucking faggot casuals who will never ever be like us as they dont have the hobbiest mindset. they either focus on one genre or they suck the AAA schlong

Hold up user, you bring up a good point, even if unintentionally. Maybe those people aren't typical casual trash- they just like specific types of games. Isn't that what we want? Niche games for niche crowds? The problem is that games like cowwa doody sell to them still because they generally don't care to gauge quality, so they just accept mainstream in general.

Maybe we need to start reaching out to and appealing to people who don't play every type of game. Make (and support) good, non-cucked fightan gaems for fightan fags under a common banner that they can understand generally has an idea of what quality is. Then, when they see other games under said banner, they can realize "Hey, wait a minute, those guys made some good fightan gaems… maybe they have some good shootan gaems, too". Or something.

I'm kinda spitballing ideas here because it's late at night, feel free to come up with a better solution

If that's true, then you need a different "constitution" for each genre. Some people here are pointing at 60 FPS but Myst, and many other puzzle games, don't need 60 FPS. It's going to get messy very fast.

What the fuck kind of shit am I reading? What the hell are you asking for exactly? You want us to create some kind of list of what should and shouldn't allowed in video games as if we're all suppose to have same opinions? You guys make some of the most retarded threads saying "the industry is so shit. it's fucked! it's all over!".
Give me an example of an industry that ISN'T fucked by your definition. Is the games industry somehow more fucked than other industries, how and why? Please explain. I'm tired of seeing whiny shit like this in the catalog every other day. Chances are that you are pissed off over some incredibly minor shit that only care about like you favorite obscure jrpg franchise from 15 years ago is no longer getting games, so you assume that the entire industry is completely screwed when in reality it's been the same as always.

I don't think so- I think you can have a generalized idea of quality without needing to pigeonhole every possibility.

Like, yeah, they don't need 60 FPS, but a game with prerendered backgrounds running at sub-60 FPS is still pretty shitty. Perhaps a "vidya constitution" would need to be reasonably dynamic for given situations- IE: a faster paced game being sub-60 FPS is more inexcusable than a slower paced puzzle game.

I'd definitely say that gestalt is a high indicator of quality, so it'd make sense most aspects can't be individually analyzed without also analyzing the whole.


No, you knuckle dragging retard, I'm asking for a refined list of ways to actually judge, analyze, deconstruct, and construct games. So that it doesn't rely on MUH ONIONS (see: mainstream "games journalism").

Yes, most industries are fucked, but I can't save every industry, so I'd rather focus on my favorite for the time being. What's wrong with wanting to save an industry of a medium you've grown fond of an attached to?

All the systems of gameplay, genres, have been discovered. Everything is last years offering + 1 minor feature. Its dead.

i like where you're going with
but from what i gathered the people iv encountered have the beginnings of good taste its just under developed
for example i encouraged old rts night for a lan meetup and also encouraged old fps night. lo and behold the nostalgia goggles come out for a lot of the crowd. about 80% of them realised they are good games but the casual fags whined and bitched like crazy to play fucking FIFA.
theres gona be that whining bitch who doesnt understand the good game part and separating them from the genre centred casuals is whats needed.
my other gripe is AAA trash is too big and attracts the wrong kind of mindset for most part
creating a group or encouraging a group mindset more akin to Holla Forums would be great
how to do that is another question entirely becuase most of us and im generalising here dont get out much and tend to lean somewhat to heavily on tism scale.

tbh the 90s gamer mindset was fucking great hell even early 2000-2007 mindset was pretty alright. then the whole market shifted hard
maybe something new will come about but i really cant be fucked trying to organise shit with people as the lan parties died in the arse hard
still pissed i only got to play frozen throne and didnt gett the cunts to play broodwar aswell

All markets and all industries are directed by the consumer. Problem is that all consumers these days are completely retarded.

Much like movies, there will be a constant stream of popular shit that casual people watch. But unlike movies, games can require some skill to play- so stuff that isn't boringly easy will come from the A/AA studios, since they won't be able to compete with AAA on pure eyecandy. The original hope of indies in the West was produce niche games for niche crowds, but they went SJW and it pretty much fell apart, no hope there

i would say "what's up with indie shit and marxist faggots?" but i already know those low effort effeminate dicksuckers cant stand quality being made and find the need to infest every industry possible that remotely relates to entertainment or culture in order rape the soul out of it and replace it with sterilised communist proganda about their suicidal utopia

fucking so sick of these parasites shitting up art/movies/comics/vidja etc for the past 120 years

Bullshit.
No, creativity in the mainstream is dead because too much creativity in one package is difficult to sell because it's unfamiliar, and therefore is unprofitable. It's the same reason the music industry is the way that it is, it's the same reason the movie industry is the way that it is. Autists in all mediums who make things for their own enjoyment are still inventing new things, you just won't find it unless you look for it.

Pic related is also affecting how many genuinely creative games are being produced.

okay, let's all just stop making games and leave it to the cool old pre-internet people

Where did I or that image ever say that? The point isn't "hurr durr, ur boring," the point is that, if every game idea is "it'll be like X game but also with Y mechanic," then no game will be significant departure from where we already are, and the evolution of ideas will be slowed to a crawl. Which it has.

No.
The industry is shit because casuals (including Holla Forums) buy anything. As a logical conclusion companies see how low they can go with the quality and still make a profit.

There never can be such a list because in order to have that list there must be consensus and a consensus can't be reached because we are talking about individuals ,not a community and not a hivemind ; thus making the list obsolete before it's even made since it's either constantly gonna be up for revisions or simply rejected eventually and of course it goes without say useless outside Holla Forums. So if you are gonna go on a chimera hunt you may as well go on one that maybe will pay off in the long run (cold fusion or even hunt the actual mythical beast itself)

Download an engine and learn it the hard way, then.

No more paid map packs
No more season passes
No more microtransactions
No more early access
No more pandering to social justice faggotry

People in this thread have mentioned principles. I don't waste my money on any of the shit I just listed, but sadly most people playing games are braindead retards that will always feed the system. Remember the Modern Warfare 2 boycott? Remember the Left 4 Dead 2 boycott? Complete failures.

The push against paid mods was the only time there was a success in fighting off a new wave of bullshit, but it only worked because Valve is at least somewhat of a reasonable company to deal with. There is an alternate universe where Origin is the largest digital distribution platform, and EA just laughed at us as they rolled around in their piles of cash made from mods.

Don't you try to pass off the blame on me. I never support a video game by purchasing it unless it's worth purchasing. I'm not the one who bought shit games on the hope that it would lead to better games in the future.

I already make vidya. Even if I didn't, the idea that there's nothing new left to make because you can't think of anything that hasn't been done off the top of your head is fallacious as fuck. I'm not saying that the majority of new things aren't usually going to to be very minor deviations either, because that's how it works, I'm saying that we shouldn't be working in mindsets that encourage it.

You're thinking from the wrong side then.
The problem isn't that the lowest common denominator consumer is retarded, but that the suppliers are behaving in an unjust manner, much like the English king at the time of the Magna Carta.

The industry is never going to get better unless we take the suppliers of vidya (namely the publishers) to task for failing in their responsibilities.

Everyone is disillusioned with video games because they grew up. If you ask me, yes, games have gotten worse, but that happened around 15 years ago because that's when I stopped relating to them. I can still find games I like but they're designed in a deliberately retro or arcade style I recognize.

Children today feel the same about modern games as you do about whatever period corresponds to your own "golden age." In 10-20 years if they don't replace video games as a primary hobby they'll be on a Holla Forums somewhere doing what anons do right now.

When I was a child I could recognize TV and film from earlier decades by the detail and color of the picture. I assumed them to be worse because they looked worse. Sometimes a lot worse. It wasn't until I got old enough to appreciate non-visual elements that I could understand those things. Video games are the same way, but unfortunately the consumer spending that guides development still resides mainly in the demographic that value visuals above all else.

You got a few hundred millions to fund that?

I'm all in favor of just ostracizing faggots who only play FIFA. If SJW scum can ostracize people for not being "tolerant" or "diverse" enough, surely we can ostracize people for being casual faggots on a grander scale.


See:


Indie isn't quite a label as it is a definition, though. We just need to support the right independent games who aren't SJW scum. Let them stew in their own, ever-retarded bubble.


I feel your pain, user.


I disagree with "too much creativity=unfamiliarity", but certainly too much unfamiliarity is a hindrance.

The pic is only slight right- basing your works off of previously great works is fine (and is how most art should be), but you do need to understand what made it great to begin with. You don't start creating more Mozart-tier music by simply listening to Mozart.

From there, you can fine tune and tweak your game so precisely that it can be one step above the previous greats.


What? No, there doesn't. Like, not an absolute consensus- we just need meritorious ideas, objective analysis, etc. Get the fuck out with your argumentum ad populum bullshit.

By who? I don't care if a bunch of SJW faggots hate the idea of quality. That's kinda the point. I don't even care about grabbing casuals and trying to un-casualize them- that's usually a fruitless effort. I'm saying we start grabbing developers and likeminded people through sheer merit. Get people who actually give a fuck about quality in their vidya and aren't content with casualized dogshit. Not every single one of those people are 90's-era 30 year olds, either. Plenty of kids grow up with an eye for quality, too, believe it or not. It's a matter of actually reaching them culturally before reddit or tumblr gets to them first.


Agreed. Either let fans do it, or keep it free. Okay if included in an expansion pack or other grouping of content, though.

100% agreed. It's like saying "Here, we're going to cut you out of some content you'd have otherwise gotten- now, pay us some money so you'll spend a little LESS money buying things you shouldn't need to pay money for to begin with!". Absolutely disgusting.

Microtransactions can be okay, so long as they never grant the player content they couldn't otherwise get. Paying for cosmetics is hardly an issue, and a reasonable way to keep a game afloat well after its initial release. I'm on the fence with grind-skipping, though- on the one hand, I don't mind it in Warframe, for example. because I usually work too much to bother wanting to grind a few hours. It's usually not TOO painful to grind (except in some particular cases, where it's like 3 layers of RNG which is bullshit), but it can VERY easily lead to complete bullshit and practically require the player to pay to advance, so I can't say it's okay merely on principle.


Yeah, but 'murrca didn't form by toppling England- they just gathered enough resolve and force to become its own independent entity. The "indie market" for vidya was going that way, until it got infested and overrun by SJW cucks (as previously mentioned).

Though we certainly need to start going after publishers and their shady, shitty ways.


Ah, bullshit. The "things were best when you were young, it's all subjective" is a pretty baseless argument. That might be the case for you, but there's plenty of new and old games alike that I appreciate all the same for their sheer quality. And the new games aren't liked because they "feel like old games". For example, I fucking love Dragon's Dogma- and that hardly feels like "old games". And no, not because of Shadow the Colossus nostalgia or something, either- I didn't even play that until like 5 or so years ago.

Similar to how music pretty much turned to shit around the 80's-90's, there's a clear "before" and "after" picture you can look at in history to see it's not just nostalgia goggles.

Sans Cosplayer.hif