SS13

Why do half these greentexts end in admin shittery? Why can't there be one server without cock-gobling button pressers?

But user, I was in fact muderhoboing as a non-antag.

But why?

Also, how is security that incompetent to get wiped out by gas?

Totally worth it though.

And for a tale from last year
H-H-H-H-HURRY UP!
MY NAME AIN'T CUBAN PETE!

They never let me trade my TCs for no bombcap after that for some reason, I think I did well.

You defended yourself from gangs and officers who thought you were a ganger without any proof. No admin should have banned for that.

To be fair to the shitty admins, if they don't stop muderboners then the server will turn into a giant "who rolls HoS and gets the armoury" game, which would end only a handful of ways.

>realise i only ever played on paradise for a few years
Suffering.
All I ever did was play the boring, shitty roles and make people as pissed off as the rules would let me.
I do recall one round as QM:

Paradise used to be fun. Too bad those furrycucks came in and ruined it. On the bright side, the admins are at each other's throats, and the guys in charge of hosting/github are the ones that dislike furries.

Forgot to mention that I placed my beartrap beneath the body of the guy who I robusted. When they all rushed in one of them grabbed the fucker and tried to run for the door. He stepped into my beartrap. Another one tried to help him at which point the first guy when down. The second one still stayed in there to get the beartrap off the poor sod, and went down too. The rest just kind of poured in, not really knowing what was hitting them, while I was sitting in a locker close to the door. As soon as they were all in I just went out, and closed the door whenever one of them attempted to get out. As I said: mostly blind luck and incompetence coming together, but especially that last part was driving my heart to 180bpm at least.

I love these SS13 threads. The game seems awesome for greentexts and memes.

Too bad it's only playable through that Byond shit. Hell even the servers are written in some clusterfuck custom language that feels like Python and AutoHotkey had a retard baby. Makes me want to just rip all the assets and make my own game based off SS13.

Many have tried, none have succeeded.
Double dubs compels you to try.

The main problem is you either have to merge all the codebases, which is stupid, exclude certain codebases, equally stupid, or make a base level SS13 and every server runs on mod files, which would be the best idea but no one ever choose that route.

we can't have a 8ch sorbs till the autists go away and we get some coders

Honestly, you just need a basic system that can do all of the basic things SS13 can, which is atmos, bio an mechanics. All of these things play together and create a toybox the players can play around in. Honestly, you wouldn't even need sprites, as they could either be ripped from SS13, or the community could make their own ones in GIMP/Paint.

You mean people who throw their lives away to learn a language that is entirely meaningless and requires months to understand the basics of, and years to get somewhat competent in?
You won't get that kind of autism out of anyone on Holla Forums ever.

Yeah I remember reading a post about that.

Basically you cannot use the old codebase because not only is it written in a custom language that cannot easily be translated to "real" code (so you'd have to write the server from scratch as well), but it also uses a proprietary authentication system with Byond's servers.
So if you wanted to play on already existing servers you'd need to make the game client authenticate through Byond, which there's no API for so you'd need to reverse-engineer the Byond client and hope you can somehow manage to figure out how to grab the auth keys you need to send to the server to make it accept you, but you also need to figure out how Byond communicates over the network.

All in all it's a massive clusterfuck, courtesy of Byond.
But at the same time… There's so much potential for this game if it just weren't stuck in a game client from 1995.

I've seen worse autism also considering trying cuckchan for this

DOOM SS13 when

Don't call BYOND a client. It's called a cancer, and it festers upon potential.

I used to play with 4/tg/, even after I found 8ch.
I miss those guys. They were pretty fucking chill.

/tg/station fucks me off to no end with how trash their admins are and the players

/tg/ station is not the 4/tg/ serb. It used to be D20, which was fucking comfy.
Fuck, this makes me nostalgic for /tg/. Wish 8/tg/ wasn't so dead…

it's just the fact that Holla Forums just doesn't have the people to make every board populated enough

It's not SS13, but I'm using their body shape as a base for my own project which is completely unrelated.

Amusingly enough, it seems that sprites are provided by the server, not by the client.
So ripping SS13 sprites is easier than I thought, you literally just have to download /tg/station or some other codebase off github and you automatically get all the sprites of the game, including the ones used for UI.

Consider posting more.

gud shit

What are some good ways to be a harmless, but annoying shitter?

>Break windows or take broken glass shards and make a huge pile. Walking barefoot does like 5 brute damage per glass shard, no limit. It's possible to instantly kill someone who is barefoot, the only difficulty is stealing their shoes, slipping and pulling their body over even 3 or 4 shards can kill them if they've been slipped

Oh my favorite one was disabling the comms and then activating the telepad to go into the plasma miner.

Also, detaching the plasma miner and flooding the station

Don't know about "harmless", but start a gang.
You don't have to do anything. Just hand out suits of one color, and have everyone shout out your gang's phrase. Sec or someone will start fucking with your gang, and they'll respond. It destroys entire servers. It's wonderful. You don't have a thing they can catch you on. If you get arrested, that's shitcurity!
GREENSIDE

Again, there's too much difference between the codebases.
They don't even use the same atmos/combat,medical/mining systems, and I don't just mean there's minor differences, I mean the base of the system is vastly different.

I do recall ZomgPonies AKA one of the few Paradise admins that isn't a furry and hates Fox McCloud working on his own version.
He never releases anything as he doesn't want to get anone's hopes up, but he says he's still working on it.

Once the N2O tank is empty the person will suffocate, while still unconscious.
Killing someone using glass shards is not harmless.
However, I really like your motion sensor flash bangs. You could however just use a normal bomb, but fill it with N2O and have it release it's contents on command. The N2O will eventually be scrubbed, and releasing enough of it will cause people to just go asleep for a while, as the N2O is replaced with O2 again.
Another fun thing to do is to lace food with sleeping toxins, or 10u of CH. People will eat/drink it, fall asleep and you can walk up to them and take their headset, which is another fun thing to do. On some servers you can use a razor to shave someone's head, which takes no time at all, and is really funny, when you do it to some RP-fag and they begin to screech about their beautiful hair.
You can also lace food with alcohol, which is really neat, since nobody will notice and eventually start walking/talking funny.
You can build a new room in maint and tap on the electric network, to drain the station systems using useless machinery.
You can RP a priest on an RP server and be really annoying about being the one responsible for all space funerals. And every body has to receive a space funeral. The space bible demands it!

Guess I'll dump some oldies.

...

You guys want me to host again? Just know that I stopped paying for the server so it's going down at the end of the month.

which serb was yours?

byond://74.91.121.114:7777
this one

I forgot about this and I had thought it went down

It did, but I kept paying for it because I was hosting other things. I can't afford it anymore.

would you me to spot you some for the rents?

I'll try and work something out before the shutdown date. I don't want to beg for shekels unless it's actually necessary and/or there's a lot of interest in the server.

I've done it before

I wouldn't even bother putting a server up.
Holla Forums Holla Forums doesn't get enough traffic to support a SS13 server.

It always goes like this:

There are other factors like admins being the shitters in this situation or people who want to destroy the server from the get-go, but this cycle has been repeated nearly ten times now.

Yeah, having video games for a hobby in general is suffering. If we're not being hated by SJWs and normalfags, we're dealing with disgusting furries and autistic children that want nothing more than to ruin anything enjoyable for everyone.

this is the only kinda thing which happens due to everyone fucking up some how, cp at least had a good run for afew months and that's only because pubbies got the autism directed at them instead

this just screams "we need content creators"

The problem is BYOND is such an archaic mess that no one wants to learn a language that will only be used for a server with no more than a few dozen people on it.

Now, if one of the coders from another server shitposted here, and there must be at least one or two, and they came on board to help, that's a different story.
But we're never going to get any coders from the general population. Spriters are rare enough around here.

One day I'll get the motivation to learn more coding. I gave up after a while but want to pick it back up.
What we need is a generic engine that supports tile-based shit, with the ability for a server to use a mod pack filled with sprites and basic scripts, like LUA, so that anyone can make items without learning a useless language.
Hell, even Roblox kiddies can script LUA.

the eternal struggle

Actually, now that you mention it, how do you even create an item in SS13? I always thought it was just a .txt file that contains the stats/scripts and a .png file for the sprite?

That's pretty much it.

Bumping with content

i miss playing with you fags

there's usually around two or seven sprites for each item more so if you want them to do something

koriath did nothing wrong

PNG with a funny BYOND config file.
That's why I mentioned LUA scripts. It's the same thing but has a broader userbase that can make it work.

Thanks user, haven't seen that one before.

I'm going to go away and autism up some basic pictures and text, then I'm going to pitch it to you guys so we can make it happen circlejerk over it happening one day.

(checked)
Hitler wills it!

Every time I get the urge to play SS13 I feel like I'm wasting my time so I just draw.

Nah, play SS13 bruh.

play spess mens

But I want furbucks!

You dumb moron he could take requests and draw vivid famous moments of space station history.

I'll fur you in the bucks

If I was any good at drawing, I'd do furry porn.
They pay so much for such shit quality AKA Palcomix.

Same. I'de probably do Shark Girls or something though with some more out there fetishes just to attract the semi-depraved crowd who will shell out thousands upon thousands because they can't find their kick any way else.

it all depends on how popular you are as a artist, if you're a psychopath then you can milk'um good but if you're a freak or a nerd you're usually shit out of luck as far as draw fagging goes

It's all luck. Though thankfully enough with porn you'll always have a crowd who will look in every corner of the internet to find their fetish so if you're work is unique enough fetish and style wise it's bound to get attention.

Alright, going to make a post in the /agdg/ thread and see if they can give me some ideas for making a base engine with mod support.

Fug.

it's time+luck+networking+marketing

I'de do living suit fetish. I always see an incredible demand for it among other things.

Use furrbux to finance serb.
Fueling autism with autism has never been so appealing.

Only problem with that is artfags would need a reason to gib any shekels at all.

I think he implies that the artfag would host a server

The artfag is also a spesman

Oh, didn't read properly.
I thought he meant get a random artfag in to make art for us and gib shekels.
My bad. back to drafting my ideas.

If it were up to me, I'd make the base engine in C#. Rendering would be done either with Monogame as a framework, or else SDL/SFML or just calls to OpenGL directly. Its not a graphically intensive game and you render what, 13x13 tiles at a time, plus the UI? Scripting would be done with Lua and object data would use JSon.

As I said, I'm not especially code-savvy.
If, and that's a terribly tentative "if" as I'm trying to liek maek gaem already, It'd probably just be a learning experience that turns out decent kills my soul.

Thanks for teaching me buzzwords to sound like I know what I'm doing and/or actually learn what I'm doing, though.

In the user working on the grocery sim

Like, a sim of a grocery store? Sounds comfy.

(checked)
Dubs demand you post screens.

I've looked into Monogame and so far I'm liking what I see. A huge bonus is that it also enables you to easily port it from Windows to other platforms, including mobile ones. Imagine being able to spess while on the bus/train.

Fucking around with OpenGL directly just for a sprite game seems a little excessive, especially since dealing with the API is the equivalent of wrestling with a bear drunk on vodka and clorox.

I'd actually use bigger sprites for more details, something like 64x64 or 128x128.
32x32 is hard to see at modern 1080p monitors without pressing your nose to the screen like a grandma trying to read the obituaries. Hell the Byond Clie-… Byond Cancer already upscales the sprites to like 2 or 3x their normal size which looks like ass, so it's not like people would notice much difference other than an increase in details.

I can agree with JSON. The only other alternative would be using XML or TXT, both which is the equivalent of writing a novel with an aborted fetus instead of a pencil.

Not so sure about LUA though. It's fast yes, but coming from someone who used to make WoW addons, LUA is absolute cancer if you try writing something more complicated than "Hello World".

So why don't we just say "fuck all of that" and make the game run in a browser?
HTML, CSS and JS should be all you need.

I dont actually know shit about web languages. It still scares and amazes me that you can use html and get a game running. Also if you use JS dont you need a server to execute the code?

You will need a serb for all of the communication and script execution, yes. But HTML will only be enough for a simple text game.

I'd say yes, but no.
You'd need to download all of the files through your browser each time you want to play the game. Otherwise, you'd need a cache to save all the files, which is a shitty bypass.

And even if you did that, you'd still need a server to connect to, so by that point, you might as well just build a client.

Also, if we go with the idea of "mod packs" for servers, a client that can store all of the mods and swap them quickly to use on different servers/run your own would be better.

Been there, tried that. You need to fuck around with websockets if you want any kind of multiplayer, which is absolute fucking cancer on the server side. There's also a lot of limitations with the current JS frameworks, both performance and networking.

Overall JS game dev right now is in its infancy and it's far better to make a workable concept in an actual language, and then just later on dive into the browser shit. That way people don't have to suffer through months of horrible bugs and performance issues while you figure out how to javascript, and also it's far, far easier to write a websocket proxy that sits on top of an actual server, than write a server that's native websocket which you later on might want to add normal networking to.

Runescape was browser based.

Why not build a regular client/server thing and keep in mind the option to have an http hook into it?

This whole game is made in html5 unlok.ca/wayward/

Runescape was JAVA based. You ran Java through a browser plugin. That's how they made it work.

JAGEX did try a HTML5 port of it later on which was going to become Runescape 3 but due to severe performance issues they decided to scrap that idea and instead go for a client based solution.

runescape.wikia.com/wiki/HTML5_client

Runescape also had constant loading that would freeze you for quite some time. That's fine when you're in a PvP-free zone, but that won't work for robusting.

It's true that that's a good use of HTML, but look how jumpy it is. Now imagine that having to phone home to a server, plus 10, 20, 60 players to update them constantly.
That updates on movement, imagine updating every tick, which could be 3 or 4 a second.

Well sure but my point is you still ran it through the browser.

Those loading times were when you hit the edge of a map chunk. I dont know the exact size they were, but could have been up to 256x256 tiles, same as byond maps. Itd be pretty trivial to get the current game state from the server at load though i imagine a few weird concurrency things

For example even if you joined the server lobby, youd still need to receive changes to the (your non existant) game state so it can execute those changes that happen while the game loads.

I know byond works via http packets with an entity and action attached to it… does it rely on the client to simulate everything that isn't player input?

Ive read a few books on Lua but havent messed around with it much. Syntax aside, what are some issues youve had with it?

No, all simulations are done server-side, you only get sent the end result.
If you set off an explosion and drop your connection, nothing will update.

Now, if you went with the browser idea:
How does someone test locally to make changes to things?
How do codebases work? Does each one need a different website with a different fork of the base website?

A client like BYOND that merely holds the base engine and all of the data from different code bases is the easiest way to achieve this.
Essentially, you just want to rewrite BYOND to not be in that archaic shit-show of a language.

And it should be noted, Jagex dropped both HTML5 and currently dropping Java as they just wrote their own client that works better.

Wouldn't it be better if the client did it, and in the case where it enters an invalid state (eg move to tile, client and server disagree) only then does the full state get pushed to client?

I agree with the modpack idea. Its the cleanest way to author things, share them, and have consistent dependencies and shit

If youre remaking it to use eg Lua, things wont be compatible which means previous game content would have to be manually ported… knowing that, you could make some drastic changes to the engine

Depends on what you like more.
Input lag or rubberbanding.

Well it depends. If everything is client-side and it gets checked client side to make sure there's no funny business, you'd still need the server to simulate it, so you might as well just do it server side, which would be easier on the connection for all players.

Yes, if we were to change scripting to LUA, or anything really, every single piece of code from BYOND would be useless and need to be rewritten.

Main five issues was;

1. Arrays start at 1 rather than 0 like with every other language in existence. It's nice for beginners, but you end up with a hell of a lot of issues because you assumed an array value would be X rather than X+1 because LUA starts at one number higher.

2. It had its own very nonsensical way of doing bool comparisons. Sometimes it was ~= and sometimes you had to use NOT. There was simply no concise way of "If something is not something do something", you always ended up having to write 3x as much code.

3. It has the Python downsides of not having any proper code segment separations, just lots of "then" and "end", but doesn't enforce Python's linespacing requirements, so more often than not you end up forgetting tabs or formatting gets fucked up somehow. The code still works but good luck reading it. This is further an issue if you have to deal with other people's code, which often comes in just one huge blob, often where entire segments of code is conveniently compressed into one 3 page long line.

4. Classes in lua is pure heresy and cancer. I could write an entire book as to why it's the worst thing humanity has invented but suffice to say it's like trying to code Java using braille. All in all if you want to write a huge complicated collection of function, do not ever try to use object oriented programming and just stick to functional programming, otherwise you'll regret it. Hard.

5. More often than not the parser produces nonsensical errors, so you end up having to hunt through the code 3 times before you realize that you wrote "en" instead of "end" and the parser shat itself trying to read five methods and three functions as a class constructor.

All in all it was not a fun experience and gave me a whole new appreciation for Javascript as a scripting language, which I had previously hated for being nonsensical and ditzy.

Not really. If the client does physics the client can be modified to cheat quite easily. It would also mean that the client would have to send info about the simulation he ran to the server, which then has to send it to all other clients, who then have to include that in their calculations.

Now what if two clients perform an action that can't be performed if another client is already doing another action (like pulling an object in the opposite direction)? If the clients both send their report to the serb before receiving the info about each other's actions that will create a major logical fuckup.

...

You would need to rewrite EVERYTHING anyways. Because everything in every codebase ever is written in that abortion "Dream Maker" language which cannot be correctly parsed by anything that is not the proprietary Byond Engine.

Game is trash. There's not RP, and where there is, there's faggotry like shitty admins and furries. Now SS13 is all about memeing on the radio, metafaggotry and getting autistic furry ERP.

1-indexed shouldn't be a problem 99% of the time considering the rest of the language is built around it. (i.e. for i=1, #table do versus C/C++ where for a for loop you generally do a less than for the condition for the desired length) If you're used to 0-index it will fuck you up the first time but shouldn't after that.

~= and not are not the same thing. You use ~= to check if something is not equal to something else. "not" is used to check if something is false or nil. To compare with C: ~= is != and not is !. Anyway, you shouldn't be using ~= for bool comparisons anyway, in the same way you shouldn't be writing out if (x == true) / if (x ~= true) in C, because unnecessarily verbose.

Meaningful whitespace in languages is cancerous and that's more down to your editor/IDE. Mine handles indentation for lua fine. Same thing for your errors. Practically every editor has a lua linter. You might as well complain a language needs brackets and if you forget one you'll get an error 20 lines for where your function/conditional is because it can't tell you where the bracket is missing from.

And it's lua not LUA.

Lua, not lua. :^)

Rule #1 with MMO design is to never ever trust the client, even if you have anticheat, because people will find a way to circumvent it and do all kinds of crazy shit that will annoy other players.

It's even moreso an issue when you have a game like SS13 where people aren't supposed to be able to go to technically publicly available places they don't have clearance for. If you trust the client too much they just have to desync one tile, and resync another and suddenly they're in the AI core. Meanwhile the server just assumed they lagged out the last 2 or 3 tiles which is no issue seeing as they only went from one walk-able tile to another.

The only way to resolve this is to either have a "RequestMovePos -> MoveToPos" back and forth between client and server each movement, or a rather expensive path flow algorithm to ensure the character didn't try walking through walls between disappearing and reappearing if you want a more natural "WoW-like" feeling of world movement that doesn't rely on constant server back and forth.

Anything with numbers should be handled server side ONLY, such as stats and the likes.

And of course packets related to attacks and interactions must be throttled if you decide to do any kind of queue system otherwise you can just packet forge 5000 "Punch with fist" network packets and send them all at once and suddenly Joe Average Janitor turns into Bruce Lee able to oneshot any OpSec or Alien with his legendary 5000 Fist of The Heavens combo.

Oh, my IP changed

Well anyways, since we lack a dedicated coder, maybe we can just work towards a design document or blueprint for a remake, and aim to have that done in a month or a year or something, and just little bits and pieces every thread until someone picks it up.

Since SS13 started as a atmos sim, why not start there? What currently works and doesn't work with atmospherics?

"Bad/clunky UI" is also valid, since eg, rapid piping tools are cumbersome to use

Atmos is different across each codebase, too.
You want to build the barebones of BYOND, that is, a 2D tile-base sprite meme-fest.

We also want a launcher client and a game client to connect to each server. Whether that is a single program or two separate ones, I dunno.

Design documents are nice.

I would go with a Minecraft-esque thing where you have a game client with a server selection menu in the game menu where you can add, save and remove servers. Maybe with some sort of MOTD system so that you can just add an IP address and automatically get name + various info about the server.

I would rather suggest we start with a list of goals. If we don't know what we want in the end, we don't know what to do. Not just "X but better", rather a concrete list of goals.
We want:
A) Better performance than SS13
B) Easier to mod than SS13
C) Has just as many (if not more) features as (than) SS13

Each of these can be divided into multiple minor goals, and eventually split off into different tasks.
For this reason.

This tbh. Making one now.

That just seems like a mission statement, I guess.

Is it the netcode? UI? Interacting with things?
What specifically?

So everyone agrees with a modpack system? Is there an alternative way of doing it?

CoD won out, SS13 doesn't have full jeeps.

Well the question is. What do people want to mod in? What does people usually mod on current serverpacks?
Would be extremely pointless to add a modding API related to items when people are more interested in adding AI NPCs for sexual RP.

Modding as in different codebases.
If you don't allow for modding, you need to pick a single codebase to adapt and that's it.

Make all the game data come in modpack form. Atmos, health, etc. Then youd have a few base systems with dependencies and stuff

Not sure if that would be a good idea. Atmos computing in particular I imagine would be very intensive, which would be better left for the actual engine rather than delegating it to a scripting language with less than half the performance.

Then the problem is that there is two types of atmos on servers nowadays, ZAS and LINDA. ZAS is super fast and fun, LINDA is slow but less taxing on serbs.

Mods could still modify the base of the client. There's no restriction inherent.

Basic design document. I am no designer, so it looks shit. Fuck this. Will make a version with actually readable font, that does not look like autism.

There is always a tomorrow. Do as you please.

Mission "new project" just entered phase 1.
That will be determined in phase three
That is part of phase one.

Mind you that those are coded in the DM language which is shit and runs like shit.
With a real language you could most definitely write a combination of the two that is both faster, less taxing and twice as good as both ZAS and LINDA.

Undoubtedly, I only brought it up to make sure anons knew that modding didn't just mean items.

That's a good start. However;

Not everyone wants this. I for one would love a meta server where everyone just plays and interacts like it was just a game without all that "Having to pretend I know nothing about the alien invasion because my character has spent the last 3 hours locked in his closet jerking off to clown photos taped to cryo tubes".

The game should enable RP, but not require it.

New design document. Pls gib feedback no bully.

What are these

We don't want an RP focus at all.
All we want is the basis for RP to be added on.

If you go back to when exadv1 made the game, that's what we want.
Just the bare bones of the game and modders add the rest in.

Systems that need to be in place are:

Now, while I love circlejerking, we do actually need to figure out who we have available and what coding experience we have between us.

Ways of handling atmospherics.
ZAS was batshit fast at times, but when there was a bomb that breached the station to space, the entire server would shit itself.
LINDA was /tg/ station's answer to the lag; a shitty, slow atmos that lets you walk past an inferno without it spreading terribly fast.

ZAS made you fear for your life and try to patch a breach ASAP, LINDA gave you 20 minutes warning that an area was about to depressurize, but would take an equally stupid amount of time to fix.

I agree with all of those. Those are the basics, but the design document is in still broader terms. RP focus simply means a text chat box with the ability to perform emotes, player names and things such as hair and clothing.
All of these are Phase 3, some even Phase 4.

Speaking of atmos systems, I'm learning c++ and managed to cobble one together to mimic SS13's but without any of the crazy optimizations they had to do because the server only ran on a single thread.
It's pretty much just a 3D array where the first two dimensions are shared with the game's dimensions and the third dimension hold all of the amounts for each type of gas and temperature.
That way a loop running on it's own thread is constantly balancing out the values in the array and the main engine only needs to read/write to the array when something big happens.
So a canister exploding means the main engine only needs to update a single value in one location on the array, and then the threaded loop then takes care of the rest on it's own.

Dumb. A single 1D array is going to be much faster because the data will be that much tighter together. Do a T[], where T is a custom struct that holds relevant data, such as temperature and volume.

Anyone got an issue with this as a general idea of which language we'll use for each component?

Though is learning C++, so that could be used as the base as well.

when do you think SS14 will have a semblance of playability? i say 2021.

I honestly have barely any experience with coding at all, but I wouldn't mind learning either C, C++, or C# in addition to my faint Java and HTML knowledge.

neverever

Oh yeah, and there was that SS13 project which I think was called SS14 that went open-source when the devs abandoned it. I haven't checked which license it was under.

Didn't they give up early last year? Or was that another project?

Nevermind.
SS13 Standalone went belly up and SS14 is building off it.

We could just scrap our idea completely and help them instead, however they are trying to make a single, unified server, and we just want a framework from which to mod.

To further build on this;

All tiles except the "space" tiles (and maybe "planet" tiles) should be craftable and placeable in the world, but not on space tiles.
Floor tiles should require "structure" tiles which in turn can only be built on top of space tiles, so you can have cables and wires under the floor, and have a "last layer of defense" against atmos breaches similar to sci-fi spaceships.

Another new job, like "Architect" or something dedicated to using specialized equipment to design and build new rooms and sections to the base would be really cool too.
I have a number of friends whom I know would play the shit out of SS13 if only they could be in charge of building and designing new sections, rooms and offices.

Can't say much about this since I haven't actually played engineer or had to worry about things.
But IMO there should be a realistic volt/ampere/watt system, portable energy sources should have realistic mAh/mWh values, fuses should have amps, the whole shebang.

Agreed

Hunger, Thirst and Energy should be a thing if we want it to be RP friendly. Sleep system would be cool too but in some special way that doesn't require people to log off for 9 hours.
Hygiene, diseases and infections could also be a thing to encourage janitors to be more than just the dude who cleans up blood and vomit, not to mention keep doctors from reattaching limbs in the mess hall.
Stamina is a must for fighting, so you can't just run away from someone indefinitely.

We don't need extreme detail (toes, pinky finger, earlobes, etc) but we definitely need to have limb, organs and appendixes similarily to how Rimworld does it.
Would open up cool things like spawning with defects (asthma, bad vision, bad hearing) which can be fixed/augmented by medical procedures. Would also open up the requirement of clone organs to replace damaged ones (eg. healing someone exposed to space vaccuum by having to replace their lungs). Maybe also mechanical organs and limbs to open up a new job.

This is a requirement. No questions about it.
You are in space, atmospheric breaches and structural problems SHOULD be critical, scary and life-threatening and also risk huge issues if not dealt with.

Not sure if you could do it without actually having a degree in chemistry but realistic chemical fluids/solids would be cool as fuck, maybe with some sci-fi stuff thrown in to keep it interesting.

Construction Worker as an engineering job.

But what if someone wants that extreme DF-level detail? This is why having systems as enableable packs makes sense

Codebase specific, tbh.
Tile construction should be as it is now: space tiles (no air), planet tiles (air and gravity) and flooring/plating, which you build by placing rods on spess then adding floor tiles.

There is, it's just that unless you are trying to get the highscore on power generation, there's no point to it.
Electricity is insanely easy to code in, you literally just copy paste the same formula you would use in physics or engineering.

Comes under codebases, again.
Remember, the broad goal is to "move" the old codebases over, so we don't actually need to create brilliant new ideas, we just want the same game to run smoother and without BYOND.
Round-based still. With a better engine behind it, you probably could play 24 hour rounds, but that's some serious autism. 2 hours would still be the dream.

Only thing you'd truly need is brain, lungs, eyes and heart. The rest rarely is used on servers.

You've got to keep in mind, we're not trying to invent a car, we're trying to reinvent the wheel, as stupid as that sounds.
There's no point to leaping ahead and thinking up great ideas to add to the game, as you might as well just go learn BYOND-memecode and plug it to /tg/.
We want a client that simply has the framework for every codebase to be moved over in some capacity. Adding/removing things would limit what each server can add.

But if nothing is going to be compatible why are you being such an autist over preserving the old shit?

Because each server has it's own nuances that they will want to keep should they change.
Goon is light RP and allows one to tear off their own arse and use it as a hat.
/tg/ has a neat mining system.
/vg/ has meme lighting.

You could just pick and choose the parts you want, but that'd alienate people that want the same thing they've always had.

I'm not being autistic over preserving things, I just don't want there to be things in the base game that would make additions in a mod pack incompatible or "hacky".

Again, you want a base game that's moddable. We wouldn't be coding an actual game, just the things that the game needs to work.

Right, but saying stuff like "only 3 organs are truly needed" depends entirely on what people want out of their content pack

I suppose. I was just generalising what every codebase has. They all have brains, but not all allow you to remove eyes or have an appendix at all.
Some have livers, but only some have the liver actually function.

Sure, but why not do something like a base system that defines everything in good detail, but by default, only has the common features enabled? Then the server op just has to fiddle with a few commands/settings to have everything turned on

So if you have a 2x2 room with say, 10 mols of air in the top left, and 20 mols of air in the bottom right, and the other two tiles are empty, assuming a STP of 101.33 kpa, how many ticks would it take to equalize at 7.50m?

How would temperature affect the rate of change?

How would you account for floating point rounding error? Obvious answer is to use floats, but only the integral part; instead of "101.33" it would be something like "1013300"

Also, does SS13 have 3D sound? Like can you tell roughly where something happened near you by listening? How do you make "up" or "down" effects with only L/R headphones?

Does space dampen sound, or mute effects completely? I forget. There should also be a nice muffled, distorted effect when cultists have Narsie summoned

You could do that, but it sounds like bloat.
If you only play on one server, you downlooad all the assets for 10 different codebases.
Also sounds like a pain for server hosts to set up, as they'd have to manually pick and choose every single item/system available.

There's no 3D sound like that, but you do hear things louder/softer depending on distance. Helps when 2 people should "Loud boom", as the boom will likely be between them.
Space mutes all sound and plays comfy music. I think you can hear explosions if they're big enough, and it rumbles your screeen.

Oh man, for big sounds with a huge distance (like an explosion), imagine hearing a half to 2-second delay after the fact. Spicy.

This seems good enough, I think. But still, a robust audio engine would be nice. As for the comfy spess music, maybe have an option to disable that for serious rounds. Or I guess clients already have the toggle options already.

Actually that reminds me of another idea I had. What if the Captain (or anyone with his access level) acted somewhat as a soft moderator for the round? This would be like toggling things to extended round, enabling/disabling random events, etc. Could be done at the comms computer. Of course, any admin would be able to override their settings.

Another was points to be awarded at the end of the round. This wouldn't have any direct gameplay benefit, but would allow for admins to track good/active players, so on a per-server basis you might be able to eg ask to trade in 30 points to have an admin spawn a special item for you. The points system would be able to award points based on living, completing objectives, having others vote you as a good player (min 5 votes) or something.

Also brb, designing autistic chemistry system

Does the code actually use gram-mols and pressure? The only reason to ever code mols is for a very extensive chemical reaction system, but what is reacting with air in ss13?

Not sure.

There's that one chemical in some codebases that generates or consumes heat as it reacts with oxygen. Apparently it works with O2 in the air, but "air" is distinct from "O2", even though air is a 4:1 mix of N2 and O2.

The ideal gas law uses moles.
Really, the only things you need to track across tiles is the number of moles of each gas and total thermal energy(not temperature). Since all tiles are assumed to be of the same volume you can treat it as a constant in your atmospherics equations.

Correct. SS13 only care about pressure equalising across the area.
Only system that cares about how much of something there is, is chemistry and medical, which is a byproduct of chemistry.

Even bombs don't care about how much of a gas is in there, they only care about the pressure and temp differences between two mixes.

That seems … pretty shaky, to be honest.
Like there's all this autistic detail and then it goes and simplifies this crucial thing.

Oh well, I know it's for performance, but We Can Do Better™

Heat = particles moving fast
Thus: High temperature = faster spread of gasses = faster equalization

The original gas simulator only cared about pressure and temp, and no one cared that much to change it.
I wouldn't go about changing it, though. Atmos is already autistic enough to learn, and teaching the general player even basic chemistry will turn them off.

I don't even think SS13 cares about temperature when equalising the gas. Might be wrong though, I don't mess about with atmos too much.

It does care about how much of a gas is in there, it cares because different gasses have different thermal capacitance (specific heat) and this is counted for when you open the valve on a bomb. The gases mix and the resulting leap in pressure is what decides the power of the explosion. This is why you use plasma as the hot gas and oxygen as the cold gas. Plasma's huge thermal capacity mean that when it's mixed with oxygen(low thermal cap) the pressure fucking rockets as the oxygen expands.

I knew they cared about the pressure difference, but some kid decided to mess about with the game to remove temperature limits and used a 1kPA tank of plasma and oxygen, then super heated/cooled each and hit bombcap.

It only cares about the amount of difference between two gasses as, say, plasma can only reach X kPA from 1kPA at Y temperature.
It's more of an incidental that it takes into account, rather than outright intended.

There is never a reason to invoke mols unless a chemical reaction takes place, and you need it to be modular/the expected compositions are unknown. Pressure does everything mols does here and is a state property that's already coded, as is composition.

A system for mols would just slow down the slowest part of ss13. Even if gas reactions were coded, they could be (and indeed should be) done with reference to the composition and pressure instead of number of molecules

Then how do you calculate the specific heat of a mixture of gases if you're not tracking moles?

Of course you don't need mols. In fact, in the industry almost all specific heats are done on a mass basis because using mols makes no sense unless you invoke stoichiometric algebra to help you

I'll add that I'm a chemical engineer and while I'd love to code an autistic system for mols there is literally no purpose to it.

giant
space
wasps

tfw you do use stoichiometry in all of autistic atmos math
I'm just saying that I think it's the simplest way to code atmospherics accurately in 2D spacemen. The atmospherics system only needs to track two things, moles of each gas and joules of energy (heat).
This way when anything, say a player character, needs to know their surrounding pressure/ air breathablility; the engine can just do a one-off calculation for pressure/composition rather than constantly be calculating pressure, temperature, and composition for every tile.

...

However the question is, how complicated does the math end up becoming once you need to calculate pressure equalization and small/large pressure drops in the event of a hull breach, if you end up having to go the roundabout way of dealing with mols and joules rather than just an integer/float holding the kpa of breathable air.

Okay so currently you can examine a beaker across the room and see what it contains and how much.

I saw some kind of codebase where you needed some kind of eyewear to enable this, otherwise it'd just say something like "a mixture". Which makes sense, you shouldn't be able to tell exactly how much salt is in a bunch of water, or how much water is even there with the naked eye.

So what if there was like a labelled beaker which indicated how much volume it currently had? More mundane things like cups would just say it contains "some" liquid, or its half full. That way, if you're a traitor, it's a lot harder to rig something up with stolen cups, making it more important to obtain tools.

Another thing would be to have spectral lines like in ,.. these could even be randomized at the round start; it wouldn't need a lot of overhead either, just a byte, and each bit corresponds to a lit spectra line. This way, you could have a machine or glasses that shows which chemical are present via visual observation. It would make keeping track of chemicals a bit harder, since chemistry is one of the most OP areas in the game right now

Yeah this is ridiculous. First and foremost you need to limit such detailed information to specific measuring tools or machinery.
Secondly even if a beaker/cup is labeled, you shouldn't be able to read half-inch text from across a room, you should be required to have it in your hand or stand right next to it.

liggers are good fucktoys would be one :3

I'm making the argument that neither moles nor internal energy/enthalpy/fugacity/entropy/free energy should be calculated, because the information already in the game contains pressure, temperature, and composition. These values are enough to completely determine all properties of the gas, including any autistic shit we can imagine needing including the aforementioned.

If composition is known (and it must be because there is a O2 requirement) only two state properties are needed. There is literally no point in using moles unless we want to replace the already used T or P, which is worthless because those must be calculated around every player anyway.

I always thought that was funny, being able to detect 1% dissolved salt in a beaker across the room yet still needing chemists for some reason.

shut up bitch

I was thinking about how SS13 attracts the best and worst of certain crowds. Namely the autistic variety that tend to isolate themselves from society, but contribute positive values they continue to hold faith to (good code, good design, good shitting, good griefing, good erp, etc).
If someone were to build the pure basics of the game, and have it easily moddable, with a language anyone could easily learn to follow good ethics and behaviours, could spawn an excellent successor.

If you build Atmosia, they will come.

Fuck it.

Tomorrow imma look into Monogames and see if I cannot learn it and make something.
At the very least it will be a learning experience.

What IDE are you using?
What books/informational sources are you using?
I want to start with C++ too.

Monogame is just the framework to make it work across different platforms. You don't really need to learn it.

The midnight sun within me craves for the plasma fires only spessmen can quench.

Any decent servers other than /tg/? Really getting sick of the admins…

private servers not open to the public

Yeah but I always thought mols was a universal thing to help with masses for stoichiometry.

Like you have X units of one chemical, Y units of another, and you just scale it up

Nigga, what? Monogame is an open-source implementation of XNA Game Studio, and was designed to be cross platform, instead of proprietary. XNA itself has a rich assortment of features, such as Vector and Matrix algebra included, plus stuff to manage the content pipeline. MG just builds on that and makes it open

The content pipeline is kind of garbage in my opinion. Sure, it compiles it to an intermediary file format for faster speeds, but people can't just make their own assets unless they download the binaries to do so. I just load raw file data in via System.IO

Young innocent mexican boy is attacked by local cartel members, colorized (2017).jpg

Fun stuff about Atmos in SS13 is that it tracks both moles and temperature.

Temperature in Kelvins, not joules, using "thermal capacity" for each gas in the calculation of "how much temperature to transfer". Basically, it translates every Kelvin to how many joules it should be for this specific gas mix based on it's thermal capacity, does it's thing and then converts it back to Kelvin, all without mentioning joules. Also handles "transfering heat capacity" which is something that makes little sense and I honestly expected it to be recalculated from the current gases, not transfered.

It also tracks moles and transfers them around to even the concentration of gases in tiles, so if you have one with 100 moles of O2 and another with 100 moles of CO2, eventually they'll both have 50/50 moles of O2\Co2.
I have no idea if that's how gases should work, mixing together like liquids but it kinda makes sense.

What doesn't happen however is moving gases based on pressure. As in, you have two tiles with 100 moles of O2 but one has double the temperature and therefore double the pressure, the moles stay exactly where they are, only the temperature is mixed. This makes things like explosions a lot less interesting, sinec you'd get a lot of moles moving out of the center at first and then rushing in after the temperature cools down, or when you open the door to a super hot environment and air should rush out.

Also, for the user that says moles should only be used for chemical reactions? They happen.
There are a few reactions in some codebases, especially with new gases that basically treat the gas mix like a big beaker and use the code in much the same way.

I'm working on something that needs this simulation too and the temperature or mixing of gases is easy.
But coming up with a formula or a way to transfer moles between mixes both to even their concentration but also according to their pressure is driving me nuts. Maybe that's why they didn't bothered with it for SS13.

If one were to make an SS13 translation to a different engine what would be the base version to use, what maps to use on the base version, and what guns could be replaced i.e. the Uzi with the Sten or AK.

The SS13 gas system is a classic example of a small amount of knowledge knowledge being a dangerous thing.

mols have no place in the gas system because it
1) needlessly overspecifies the system it describes
2) is an extensive variable that is superfluous in the presence of volume or other extensive information
3) does not computationally simplify reactions because of the finite and already defined species which could react
4) gas reactions are slow anyway and have rate constants dominated by T, P, and composition, with no reference to mols
5) is not in reality possible to measure mols but only estimate them based on intensive properties (T+P+composition+any extensive property) so it makes little sense to display them to a player in the first place

sort of, gases are fluids and equalize pressure and other state properties. The rate at which their pressures and compositions equalize is based on the gradients of their pressures (not moles) and their diffussion coefficients (which are nonlinear and based on composition, pressure, and temperature). A quick look at equations for transport phenomena (gif related) can give a decent approximation

This simply shows the coder didn't understand what pressure is

The fact that all reactions with gases (and that there are so few of them; less than a dozen gases in most code bases) have to be coded individually anyway also satisfies my argument.
Only the most advanced chemical process simulators in the world even attempt to use the modularity of stoichiometry to determine state information after the fact, and its never accurate. They do this to avoid manually coding the reactions and letting software approximate where empirical data is not available, but if the reactions are already defined (as they are in ss13) there is no point to that.

I would almost consider writing a more elegant system myself but I dont think ss13 and its shitty admins, shitty hosts, and shitty codebase(s) is worth the effort so long after its glory days.

We ever getting a real 8ch serb again?

See

we have one

Unclebenis,there's no need to be mad.
all you had to do is say that YOU were the shitter

Thoughts on "more interesting" symptoms for health, medicine, and virology?

In particular, I was thinking of having it track various vitamins are such for entities. "Nutriment" would be changed to calories, and thus, you could eat vending machine food or donk pockets to be sated/fat, but you might miss out on other nutrients.

To avoid micromanagement, eating one or two prepared foods would keep you topped up on all kinds of vitamins for like an hour or something. However, this would open up mechanical design space for different illnesses; there could be body deficiencies that open up when certain vitamin values drop too low, such as reduced kidney function (affects metabolism, toxin reduction), or becoming more susceptible to viruses.

As for Virology, this could introduce other symptoms, like a virus that rapidly consumes say, B12 vitamin. It wouldn't be directly harmful, but would lead to other illnesses and chain reactions in health. Virology could also have other groups introduced, such as bacteria, viruses, fungi, and parasites.

have it track carbs, protein, calories and fats as well as vitamins

Got sick of /tg/ and went to hippie station. It's actually okay. Why don't I see more people here talk about it?

Because Holla Forums servers are pretty small and want the players to play here, if possible.

Sorry, so going back to atmos shit. Is it reasonable to track (per tile):

If you release a hot gas and a cold gas, the heat would transfer between tiles, but not be tracked independently per gas; it would still equalize across the room eventually.

Also, since it's an engine remake, should maps be limited to 256x256? Should they be up to that size? Is it worth having dimensions in say, units of 16? This could affect whether things are simulated in chunks or per room, etc (I feel rooms are "completely arbitrary")

is that a Megalia attack?

I'm thinking of having a Minecraft-esque style to maps, where you can travel infinitely in whatever direction (or at least until you run out of integer storage for coordinates), makes living in space a bit more interesting than just "Here is the station, here is your conveniently placed asteroid".

Having to actually warp travel in a shuttle to an asteroid, mine shit, and then come back, potentially bringing with you aliens or deadly infections would be nice.

Also would be cool if you could make your own station with your own rules if you're sick as shit of the current captain/AI/whatever.
I'm thinking maybe letting everyone start off in a decrepit, abandoned space station, where you're forced to rebuild everything to a working community, and then if people get bored they can group up and search for another station and rebuild that one too. Maybe have teleports or transports between different stations, and have emergency shuttle go from "things are going to shit"-station to another station rather than just some magical lobby in fairy lala land. Thus forcing people in a "perfect" station to deal with the shitty situation of refugees popping up unannounced requiring medical care and living space and food and water and air. And maybe even horrible alien visitors.

Oh and something along the lines of craftable "subspace beacons" to mark stations people can choose to spawn on, once the station owners feels they are ready to receive new recruits.

I mean sure this would kind of ruin the whole idea of "rounds", but it would be more fun in the long run.
Maybe have separate servers, one with the whole "world" thing and one for temporary rounds with randomly generated ships (or "build from scratch") where emergency shuttle meaning round end.

Definitely
Definitely
This is a harder question.
Whether you are tracking the "heat" (internal energy, enthalpy, entropy, etc, technically heat is not a property of matter) or temperature makes no computational difference when mixing gases. However I strongly recommend that temperature be tracked instead of internal energy, because a comparison of temperatures is what determines whether or not energy will transfer in the first place (that's almost the definition of temperature). That is, if a conditional statement finds that the T or two adjacent objects is the same there is no reason to calculate internal energy whatsoever, but in such a case you'd still need the temperature because players must get fucked up by being in certain temperature ranges.

It seems pointless to calculate or track heat capacity because the functions for it are extremely nonlinear and the heat capacity in real life is worthless when dealing with plasmas and needlessly complex when dealing with normal multicomponent gases. Just assign a single numeric value based on the identity of the gases that doesn't scale, if needed. In particular there's no reason to bother with heat capacity for similar gases, like diatomic oxygen and nitrogen, nor for co2, nor for gases less than 1% composition because of the highly nonlinear influence they exert. That is, heat capacity of oxygen and nitrogen are arbitrarily taken to be 1 (of a convenient and imaginary unit), and argon and co2 and water vapor ignored when less than 1% composition, meaning there is far less computation being used to normalize nonhazardous temperature, composition, and pressure in the station.

In 99% of the situations in ss13 there is no need at all to do computation of different energies between gases to determine the final temperature, a simple averaging is sufficient and much faster. Using partial derivatives that we assume to be linear from the ideal gas law is another option that would not require reference to mols or gas constants.

I'm on mobile so I'll stop for now but seas of ink and autism could be and indeed have been spilt on the topic of modelling such complex physical systems.

So basically a central station that is reset every round, and an "infinite expanding terrain" with convenient teleports to/from that are persistent?

...

The way I'd do foods is

In short, make botany and cook high value jobs for keeping a healthy crew

Well I was more thinking having different servers.

One being reset every "round", round ending once the emergency shuttle docks at whatever magical lala land it heads off to after takeoff.

And one being persistent, where "subspace beacons" (and maybe some shit like cloning vats) determines where new players can spawn. Emergency shuttle (or teleports idk) would take you to another station, rather than said magical lala land, and there is no round end, there is only the dark realization that you either have to start over at this new station, or organize an expedition to the old, now defunct station to repair it or deal with whatever infestation required the emergency shuttle to be called to begin with.

I mean I suppose you could somehow merge the two so that you have a "beginner" station which continuously resets, but I'm not sure how to deal with keeping the rest of the world "intact" during a reset, and I'm certainly not sure how to deal with reassigning roles.

I like this idea. It actually gives cooks something to do other than shit out a pile of bread and spaghetti.
Additionally maybe add a limit to how many times you can eat a single food (or even maybe the ingredients themselves) before you get "tired" of it and start getting sick from eating it, that way cooks will be forced to vary their cooking, not just make a billion pepperoni-fruit-veggie pizzas and call it a day.

Could also give people different taste preferences, so that for example people who have the taste preference of hating sweet things but loving spicy things would for example get -50% energy/food gain from a bowl of icecream, and +50% energy/food gain from a bowl of spicy ass chili.

The question is, will such a thing be beneficial to system as a whole? I see it working on high rp servers, but on medium rp or low rp its just detrimental busywork because of the described downsides. Just adding more shit to do does not make things better if it has more downs then ups. The main question is, why cooking should be so important for survival in the first place? This makes it as imporant as engineering and encourages shorter rounds, which is terrible. It does not give enough positives to outweigh negatives. When everyone gets an equal bonus, what is the purpose of the bonus in the first place?

This sounds intresting, but current ss13 has slow building, heavily reliant on resources. So you will need to seriously buff construction first. Besides, I think byond might simply be not suited for long-running persistent games. D20 server had some really long fortress building rounds and they usually ended with server crashing as I understood from their wiki.

...

One idea I had was to have an "Architect" job using specialized tools akin to the Starbound "Matter Manipulator" (starbounder.org/Matter_Manipulator) where you could simply point and click from a distance where you wanted to place what tiles and objects. Once placed they would show up as a hologram (transparent, and maybe tinted blue) to indicate where it will be placed.

Then one of four things happen;

1. The architect or some other job like an engineer has to move around and "fill in" the holograms with the actual material and manual labor.
2. You place down a construction "replicator" that using energy-to-matter transporter technology or nanobot technology "fills in" the holograms with the necessary tiles and objects.
3. The "Architect Matter Manipulator" itself fills the role of a replicator and builds the tiles/objects with material/energy held in the player inventory.
4. You send in AI controlled construction bots that builds what you have designated, running back and forth between storage and the newly constructed area picking up materials as needed.

The point is that you're surviving on a Space Station almost completely cut off from work. In a pinch all you really need to do is have someone grow a garden with Wheat, Oranges, Cabbage, and soy for milk and dairy. God forbid anyone but Cargo, Engineering and Science serve an necessary ongoing purpose.

...

SS13 has always been a game about roleplaying. This is what creates drama, tension, and excitement.

If you're claiming "muh 4 non sec murderbone antags" ruin the game, then maybe we just need to re-examine the role of traitors in the game

we do need more gamemodes though

In the lore, the Captain runs the space station, which is owned by Nanotrasen, and the goal is to collect and research the new, mysterious material, Plasma.

You could have collection or research goals

those usually amount to end round results "points"

Yes, and?

afew servers do that and it's never really cared about much like all the other reasons for rp solutions that's come about

For first option you still need better gear for engineer.
Second might go from useless to overpowered depending on construction speed and resource usage.
Third is basically bluespace RCD, and is probably the easiest and fastest to implement.
Fourth is good but is probably extremly hard to implement because it some kind of AI.
You still need to make some kind of powerful portable air generator. Refilling air in SS13 requires good atmos setup and still takes some of time.
I think you should focus on creating tools for everyone instead of specialised jobs, as any base building usually attracts much less people then usual rounds and they have much more work to do.

The thing is that normal life on ss13 is not like a normal game round. Normal game round is a rare emergency. As things happen in real time, there is no reason for spacemen to suffer that much from just one hour without food. I think that all departments are important. But civilians should be much less important for survival then Engineering, Medbay or Security. Especially in such a low timespan. So instead of forcing more survival busywork a better idea would be to add more exotic healing food recipes that would increase survival chances. Than cooking would be closer to Cargo or Science in that regard.

For me paranoia and combat create much more drama, tension and excitement than any kind of roleplaying. Roleplaying is good bonus. The thing is that you can't force roleplaying or you end up like bay or any other high rp server.

Gamemodes have nothing to do with station goals. Gamemodes define rules of conflict between crew and antagonists.
Station goals are useless on low-medium rp as survival and killing the enemy takes much higher priority. This will only change if reaching station goal will give much better results in surviving, and is not hard to achieve.

I have no coding and I must sprite

[Sad honking]

I'll just do it on my own and bring it back here when it gets to the point of something more than a talking point.

Holy shit, this thread is still alive.

Kind of a weird priority you have going there.
The base version depends entirely on the community you want (Bay vs Goon vs TG) so technically the best one would have almost no features but the basic engine and everyone else would add what they want with as much detail as they want.

Maps also don't matter to conserve and it makes little sense to re-use them since they'd have to be redone and you could do so much more.
And guns should be like, one of the later things you do. They are pretty much very simple objects that just shoot projectiles with certain parameters, making a gun that shoots bananas is far more important, for instance. Guns and combat are really not the best or most important part of SS13 at all.

Hey, glad to see someone that knows a bit about this. I guess it's pretty natural you'd be drawn to SS13.
I've actually finished my system, which I'll be posting shortly for anyone curious. I worked about 4 days on just 2 equations to handle temperature and mole transfer between mixes. I'm pretty sure it's not scientifically accurate at all, but it does simulate it very well and adapts nicely to a videogame.

The single most important advancement that health could have is death being related to brain death only. I get that hyperalgia is a thing, but whacking someone repeatdly on a leg shouldn't outright kill them. Bleeding could if you used a cutting weapon but it would have to be actual bleeding, causing breathing damage that is applied to your brain.

I once suggested an interesting take on eating that'd make for an easy system to use and reinforce roleplay but it's not very feasible in SS13 due to lack of tools to affect the players.
All food would have Calories (or Carbon Hydrates to be more accurate) and that's what you need to avoid starvation, that's what's consumed when you walk around.
But veggies would have Fiber, fruits would have Vitamins and meat would have Proteins (variations are possible, like beans having protein).
Fiber would make you tougher, Proteins would make you stronger and Vitamins would make you smarter.
Plus, several diseases don't manifest (but aren't cured either) if you have one of those 3 things inside of you.

Eating healthy and varied would grant you nice bonuses, ward off disease, give more purpose to the Chef\Botany and allow for greater roleplaying.
Plus, you could craft a disease that targets anyone without Proteins and screw every vegetarian on the station.

Virology could indeed have Bateria, Fungi and Parasites added, with Virus and Bacteria dying out or reproducing faster depending on the temperature (making some symptoms that heat\cool you up more usefull) or Fungi that depends on the level of moistness (or how many chemicals you have in you) and Parasites that steal nutrition from the owner to reproduce, causing damage exponentially.

I think that maybe a lot of people don't know some of the story behind the game. Before the Goons took over SS13 from it's original Dev, they were playing another BYOND game called "Murder Mansion" that's still available.
That was a game about a group of people inside a mansion where one of them was a serial killer and everyone else had to RP playing pool and getting drinks until one was killed and then they had to investigate it.
Coincidentally, that's where some of the ideas for cloth fibers and fingerprints come from.
Fast forward a few dev cycles later and you have something similar but now mixed with the tabletop game Paranoia (which might actually be the biggest inspiration for the AI actually)

The problem is that Murder Mansion and whatever SS13 was back then have nothing in common with what it is today. They used to be a crappy but fun 2D "The Ship" with very, very minimal roleplay and atmosphere simulation for the sake of autism. Even the clown was nothing but a punishment role.

SS13 however kinda outgrew this and become this incredibly large bloat surrounding this core idea that doesn't play along very well because you have the Roleplaying game and the Traitor game running concurrently and barely mixing together. And the more you develop one, the more you fuck up the other, with the janitor being the bane of Syndicate Operatives because slipping was fun for RP. You truly begin to understand how bad this is when you spend 3 rounds in a row doing genetics to have fun with the powers but all 3 are cut short because the first is Wizard, the second is Nuke Ops and they die fast and the third is Rev, there's only one Head and he went to the Asteroid.

Traitor's role became something different, where they are to be the chalenges the crew faces, the thing that makes rounds interesting because no amount of RNG scripted events is ever gonna replace the creativity of humans.
But since nobody has any incentive to actually make things interesting, 80% of traitors either go loud and make short, bloody, uninteresting rounds for everyone else or they go sneaky and they make long, silent, boring rounds for everyone else.

The first step to solve this would be to remove the focus on traitors so they'd be more like events. Rounds shouldn't start with traitors and they shouldn't finish just because a traitor is done. He should leave with a pod, transport or some other method and then the game carries on, the station being penalized for letting a traitor escape. Cult wins? The round goes on but everyone is now a cultist and the station belongs to Nar-Sie. Expect a new "traitor" that's actually a religious Zealot to undo the cult. Rev wins? The Head Revs are the new Heads, the game goes on. Syndicate? Late-game event if a game has been running too long and there are too many dead people. etc, etc.

Give me your opinion on this, considering it's for VYDIA GAMES and not accurate scientific simulations.

I made an Excel sheet to simulate 4 connecting rooms with up to 5 different gases in them.

Each gas is represented by mole and has an innate property, it's "thermal capacity" that's basically Joules/Temperature (K). It's an oversimplification of enthalpy, but it seems to get the job done.
A room has a total thermal capacity that's the sum of every gas mole multiplied by it's own thermal capacity factor, so 100 moles of gas 1 plus 200 moles of gas 2 would be 1+6=7 TC.

I actually began with temperature but I'd often have to divide it by the thermal capacity to handle transfers, since 1 Kelvin in a room might not "have the same energy" as 1 Kelvin in another room, depending on what gases are in there.

Pressure is just the sum of moles multiplied by the temperature divided by the volume of the room.
Later, when actually coding this, I replaced Temperature*Volume by Ratio since it can be calculated once for the whole cycle and behaves like a constant I re-use often until the next one, each room having their own ratio.

I also included an "atmos coefficient" and a "therm coefficient" that can be used to adjust the speed at which these trades happen, 1 being the fastest possible and higher numbers slowing the trades over more cycles.

Gases are transferred by the following formula:
C14=C4-(C4-(C4+D4+E4+F4)/((C9/C7)/(C9/C7)+(C9/C7)/(D9/D7)+(C9/C7)/(E9/E7)+(C9/C7)/(F9/F7)))/$L$3
or
new_gas1_moles = current_gas1_moles - (current_gas1_moles - (sum_of_all_moles) / ((ratio1 / ratio1) + (ratio1 / ratio2) + (ratio1 / ratio3) + (ratio1 / ratio4))) / atmos_coefficient

This gives me the new moles for gas1 in room1. The process is repeated for every gas and every room, replacing all those "ratio1" with the ratio from the room considered and moles from the gas considered.
It evenly distributes moles until they are under the same concentration across all rooms and forces them to move out from a room if it has an higher pressure than another room, even if it has less moles.

Energy is transfered like this:
C18=C8-(C8-((C8+D8+E8+F8)/(C10+D10+E10+F10))*C10)/$M$3
or
new_energy = current_energy1 - (current_energy1 - ((sum_of_all_energy) / (sum_of_all_thermal_capacity)) * thermal_capacity1) / atmos_coefficient

This evenly distributes energy across all rooms based on their thermal capacity, treating energy like a liquid and thermal_capacity like a volume and trying to keep concentration.

One neat effect that this formula achieves is the "explosion effect". If I set up all rooms with exactly the same atmosphere but one having 50 times as much energy, for the first few cycles it loses moles as pressure tries to normalize itself with every other room. But as the energy is transfered and temperature starts to even out, they slowly trickle back in, ending up with the same atmosphere as before but now every room is a bit hot.
This would be the equivalent of opening an Airlock to a super heated room, being blown back by a gush or hot wind and then sucked in afterwards.

Bump

What happened to the zDOOM project to mod in SS13? Did it go anywhere?

Doomanon is still working on it, he barely posts anymore though. Last thing he said was that he's waiting until Zandronum 3.0 goes out of dev-betas to start a test server so he's polishing and optimizing the mod in the meantime.

This thread makes me want to re-download and play SS13 once more. There really is nothing else even near it, is there?

truly isn't

I had almost convinced myself I was enjoying casual shit like Overwatch and Skyrim.

God damn you for reminding me that I could be playing a surly, yet super-effective chemist making pills that treat LITERALLY EVERY ILLNESS AT ONCE

why pretend to be a god when you could be one?

If there was anything near it, SS13 wouldn't be called an exceptional game.

begin our search in the starboard side of the station
cont

at this point I would like you to imagine this fucking scene:
Three or four ordinary men, all scared shitless inside of some strange maint tunnels, where death could linger for them. All of them (besides me and the Cap) are armed with only a crowbar or a welder at best, and with a flashlight at worst. Out of fucking nowhere the already sparse lighting turns off, leaving you only with the PDA lights, and the two flashlights we got. The radio communication, connecting us to our only liveline back to medbay is cut off, the captain tries to PDA the CMO about this, and then a voice comes out of fucking nowhere. There are no lockers, no crates or anything anyone or anything could have hidden inside. To thid day I have no clue how that voice even reached us. But it was [unknown].
I know this is bullshit. I have seen all of us get gibbed
Best round ever.

no bully

Does anyone know how to install this on linux? is it even possible?
Every post I see on the byond forums is just "Dual boot", "Wine" or "V"

Not possible unless Byond released a client for linux.
And the fact that everyone keeps saying "Wine" or "Dualboot" leads me to believe they haven't.

Installing this is only for server hosting, I believe.

There's a Browser version that could technically work with Linux, I think.

you love it you slut

i-i do

...

I am going to pet you and you won't resist, because you are just a submissive little mime.

By the way what events in ss13 release or consume heat from the air? is it fire and explosions only?

Heres my opinion theory again:
1. Fuck moles
2. Fuck heat capacity if computationally convenient, and it is or should be easy to make convenient in ss13.
For example, you observe
>I actually began with temperature but I'd often have to divide it by the thermal capacity to handle transfers, since 1 Kelvin in a room might not "have the same energy" as 1 Kelvin in another room, depending on what gases are in there.
This is high school chemistry talking, not our preferred modelling. This is true but unhelpful because 1) we have no prayer of coding the realistic model anyway and 2) we actually can and should assume this for the gases we're dealing with. Your 'tc's in particular would be very similar to each other, and I argue should all just be unity (fuck monatomic gases I'm not gonna argue about them).
3. forget the ideal gas law if possible. Not only does it force us into embarrassing and computationally pointless situations like distributing based on moles, but it doesn't help. For us, volume is already cut up into nice little blocks.
4. decide up front whether you want pressure effects like people getting flung out of airlocks, I know not all models do that.

I'm mostly basing my theory off the computational limits we have in ss13 and the fact that even an inaccurate system is superior to the current one as the current one is inaccurate and slow. Furthermore, most people have inaccurate ideas about reality in the first place, like the ideal gas laws applicability, so trying to model nature precisely is not our goal given that most players don't know the accurate models anyway.

Also the way you're doing pressure and temperature transfers seems fine but the coefficient for pressure is much greater than for temperature (pressure can propagate at the speed of sound), and composition is about as slow as temperature. In practice we want them to both be as fast as reasonable though because intermediate states are very bad in any such model.

Once again the intermediate states of our models are shit because a pressure transfer would carry T and composition from the higher pressure area to the lower much faster than our modelling, and the high-pressure area would be immune to composition change and convection (though not temperature change) as it transmitted it's pressure. The important bit is to make our changes fast, because we don't want to model this garbage or let the intermediate states be scrutinized by players.

I'll consider putting more thought into this later but the perfect model doesn't exist, what the code is depends on what we prioritize.

Heres an hot idea

>remove all the boxes of donk pockets, except for one or two in the cook's freezer And one in the janitor's office
>have said crate be extremely expensive and need to be unlocked by the cook, captain or janitor
>have hacked supply consoles able to order "Leaf Pockets" which are display as docket pockets but give you hallucinations
>Have boxes of Donk pockets be high-value items so that stealing them is grand theft

Im an autist and stopped playing for awhile, what server is everyone at?

see

Technically the amount of energy should remain static in a closed environment.
Also, what about space tiles? They drain shit away but aren't an "event" per se

WEW

it's the only one up and welcome to the state of the thread. no one joins because fuck low pop and we don't get past low pop because no one joins, this isn't considering all the other problems we have as such as

I remember when we had the debate of listing it or not and here is what I said then and what I will continue to say.

Allows for everyone to have a common enemy as well as solving the low pop issue. Worse case you have some non-imageboard users but as long as they know how to play the game and don't stand out like a sore thumb they should be fine.

When I get my home server set up I might host a server however I know jack shit.

public listing is agreed a good thing though but only when we've got people actually playing

Gotta say from a few servers of experience, the kind of people that would find you through public BYOND listings are not the kind of people you want playing the game- even to bully.

Plus it's like 75% BRs and Ruskies.

Well if you listed in the OP that would be the first help instead of searching the thread. Secondly if you show your are not shit then the server should naturally fill. Many SS13 players here are abused spouses as we have had many server hosts overtime.

that's only with low pop though

don't assume it's my server, you were too lazy to look through the thread for it and I wanted to bring what was posted to light

...

all of those are just

Thanks for the feedback.

The idea of not considering Volume constant was due to the way some mixes are processed. In some SS13 servers you actually have a single mix for an entire room with a volume that depends on how many tiles it contains. Initially, I was considering doing the same thing for the sake of optimization but it seems to bring far more trouble and complications (especially when Construction comes into play) to make it worth. A gas mix per tile is probably best, especially if it's just server-side.
The idea of heat capacity is to give some depth to gases. N2 for instance is given a much higher heat capacity than other stuff so it can be used to put out fires and cooling down atmospheres. It also makes plasma fires quite deadly as their large temperature actually holds a fuckton of energy.

An ATMOS system for any SS13 requires a few features and this is pretty much non-negotiable.
Sucking people out of rooms, flinging them around with pressure and even crushing them is a must.
Temperature and convection too, for engines, toasting people, etc.
Gas mixes of various compositions. It doesn't require to be simulated by moles, but it does need to allow various gases.

The advantage of moles and likely the reason people use it is so they can treat a single gas mix like a beaker but instead of Units, they use Moles. It makes the system a bit more familiar and easier to interact using other machines, thought it doesn't really require to be done this way.
If you have a better suggestion, what information would you use\store and how'd you handle composition, handling pressure and convection?

Also, there are surprisingly few machines that take advantage of anything ATMOS related. For temperature, you have Space Heaters found in maintenance and a few chemical reactions, but otherwise it's just pipe machinery.

I was actually considering what a waste this is when we could have something like every chemical having a solid, liquid and gaseous form depending on the temperature they are at. For instance, a beaker filled with water that drops to 0º would empty and an ice cube would pop out, or Mercury going liquid if left around.

Then you could also pump liquids\gases through pipes if there's a system that can handle both things and have machines that consume specific liquids\gases to function instead of only power.

Search "byond://" next time :^)

pretty much this

Can someone post the pathfinding code for Beepsky?

They'll always path and patrol between beacons won't they?

unless the ai orders them someplace else or they're following a target

I thought they pathed between a few tracking beacons or whatever, though. There's a thingy under the floor tiles at certain hallways

He and pretty much every bot has an A* (a-star) pathing algorythm that they use when the AI commands them to move somewhere else.
I haven't seen the code myself but the beacons probably only tell him where to go next and he keeps track of his next destination until a new beacon overrides it.

Good enough for me, thanks

FUCK THIS SHITTY ASS GAME, THE ADMINS NEVER BAN ANYONE ELSE BESIDES PEOPLE NOT IN THEIR LITTLE DICKSUCKING CIRCLEJERK HOLY SHIT

poor baby :^E

/vg/ metaclique is real

...

For..?

Read the top line.
He insulted them for being cucks and not paying for good servers, while the Host/Head Coder is absolute trash and only ever bans people or shitposts about how trash the other servers are.

How do I get into CM? I picked Marine and managed to get planet-side, and then I spent 30 minutes behind a barricade shooting ayys as they darted in and out
Everyone else was doing the same
Is that all it is?

Don't bother. Even if they didn't have mods that rival neofag, the combat is broken in so many places that it would be easier to start over than fix the mess they've made.

Again: Why?

All the admin had to do was reply (he did). The ban was completely unnecessary

Because ss13 admins garble cock and are only in it for endless praise from their drone playerbase. When someone doesn't praise them they try to get rid of them.

It's a 100% combat SS13 server and one of the sides are Xenos who were entirely reliant on stuns and don't work mechanically well for PvP anyway.
"Hey, let's have killing machines that can slice a man in half! But they reproduce by stuffing xeno cock in living hosts, so everyone they kill is a wasted recruit…"

Combat in SS13 was never the high point of the game, the context surrounding it was, is and always will be what makes the game fun. Just go play AvP2 or even AvP2010 instead of that.

Because they are juvenile autistic fucks, that's why. Granted that it was a pretty stupid shit to AHelp, he could have posted it in OOC (which would generate a lot more butthurt).
But it's mostly because they can't take complaints about their inability to optimize the game or get better servers.

Yes

OOC is disabled during rounds

It's the little things.

Why do you fags still play in such a no-fun allowed server? You do realize that playing there just gives them more players that atract even more people, right?

They have over 100 players on right now. All someone would need to do is have a better ayy server and CM would crash, leaving only the most dedicated of shit eaters on there

that's kinda why I pushed for my autistic xenomorph shit, we'd get players EZ that way

Someone is making an arena station.
It's just a normal server, but you can opt in to fight in the arena for fun with a large assortment of weapons, or you can get sent there instead of brig time.

C-can I have AvP2 in SS13 p-please?

only if you suck dicks

What about a server where two stations are at war and have to kill off each other, or steal the enemy nuke disk and use it, to win?

but not the players you'd want

any player is better then no player

That'd be amazing, but won't happen with BYOND.
2 stations getting blown up at the same time would make it cry.

Do what D20 did: build a solid core playerbase then go public.

out of who?

out of fa/tg/uys I know chrow was posting in this thread unless someone pretends to be him.

there's afew people I know of too but that's like five guys tops and none of them like to play low pop and have already played the game to death

This is the next step in SS13s lifespan. Though there are severe limitations in place where it structures an insulatd coding environment preventing beginners with no knowledge of coding, an opportunity to give back to their community and replenish autsitic resevoirs.
Thinking about some different scenarios and new ztiles for specific organizations, makes my fingers erect at the thought of all of that lore building potential.

Don't you realize that the Syndicate is the other station? Nanotrasen propaganda tells you that they are terrorists, but in reality, every group is against each other

he means something tangible, not a gayme mode with "lore"

FUCK YOU, STOP FORCING YOUR SICK FETISHES ONTO PEOPLE YOU SICK LITERAL FAGGOT, GO SUCK A SHOTGUN INSTEAD

THIS IS VERY FUCKING CORRECT, HOWEVER EXPAND IT TO ADMINS IN FUCKING GENERAL, THEY ALWAYS LEAD TO METADRAMA AND THE CREATION OF A DICKSUCKING CIRCLEJERK WHEREVER THEY GO

maybe it's a two way thing and you're equally at fault here too. also dressing more like a slut would help

GO BACK TO YOUR FAGGOT HUGBOX CONTAINMENT BOARD YOU FUCKING NIGGER, YOU'RE THE REASON PEOPLE THINK THE "lol Holla Forums is full of faggots xDDDD" MEME IS TRUE, SAME THING WITH THE "Holla Forums hates video games" FAGGOTS

don't worry you'll get a boyfriend one day

I wonder if I could get Patreon money by open sourcing a clone

The CM server community is so fucking cancerous. Cliques, special snowflakes, and the most whiny oversensitive butthurt admins you could imagine.

It would be fun if they fixed the 100 flaws their server has but they seem content to wallow in their stale laggy shithole. Yet it was still less of a miserable experience than tgstation. There are no good stations that satisfy both my RP and spess autisms.

He is right, you are a faggot.

...

I'm fairly certain most of us are playing on /vg/station.
I know, I have issues with playing with cuckchanners as well.

I'm not playing any server anymore. I'm waiting for spessman here to come back to life but it'll probably be a few more months until the shitters leave the threads thinking it finally died. Maybe then we'll have a few more weeks of coolbeans spessmen.

Explain networking to me.

That's a very non-specific question that would surely take more than 4 posts to answer fully…

Up to you to get the rest.

What ever happened to that WW1 themed SS13 server that was talked about a few months ago? Did it implode? I've always wanted a trenchfoot simulator

If anyone's interested, I could look into hosting a server for Barotrauma. It seems like a way to simulate the spessmen adventures as semen.