This thread is for arguing and shitposting about DRM and the ethical ramifications of piracy, so that other threads can stay on-topic. A question I have is this. Let's say hypothetically you somehow get charged for pirating a vidya gayme (astronomically unlikely). If you already own the game, can you still be charged with the crime of "stealing" a game you own? Or creating a "lost sale" ddespite having bought the game?
"ok, but you bought it right?"
Okay, but first let's talk about our lord and savior Grudeki Despikamiya
All independent studies have shown that piracy barely makes a dent in profits.
Studies funded by entertainment companies show massive losses, because they are biased and paid for. They often go with the assumption "all pirates would have paid for their copy if they didn't pirate it".
Pirating an old game made by a defunct studio hurts no one at all. It's like pirating music made by dead people. No one exists who could be hurt, and that's ignoring the fact piracy has little impact.
Companies use piracy as an excuse rather than admit they made total garbage no one liked. FemGhostbusters was "heavily pirated" according to the MPAA, they actually use that as an excuse for why it did so poorly.
The fact the world governments are considering piracy to be a major issue while ignoring many real issues is scary. They want to jail people for 10 years for downloading a single thing. Russia, a nation that went decades without caring about copyrights, is suddenly pushing hard to criminalize piracy. Well FUCK Putin. He's a criminal murderous asshole. Piracy is no major concern but it's being treated like one.
You won't see anyone proposing a 10 year sentence for spouse or child abuse, yet 10 years for downloading a movie is somehow a very real proposal in many countries. The current lawsuits are tying up the courts needlessly over a non-issue. This is a burden on the legal system because rich people want even more money when they already have plenty.
I can guarantee you right now, if a cop ever shows up at my front door so much as to serve a notice of a lawsuit over downloading, that cop gets shot. If these entertainment industry assholes want to make a non-issue into a big deal, I'll give them a war.
DRM sucks. Here are couple of worrying examples:
youtube.com
youtube.com
Daily reminder that buying second-hand games is the exact same as pirating the game, except that the middle-man and original owner of the game get shekels out of the deal while screwing over the Dev.
...
Copying something is not stealing.
I recognize that hentai.
fucking femdomfags
Selling your game is fine though. The middle-man is the jew(the problem).
if the market system was designed so that games were represented properly or completely refundable, piracy might not be as big of an issue. piracy is just the market adjusting to shit business practices where people can't determine what they're buying. switching to piracy in the last couple of years has saved me hundreds of dollars and allowed me to spend that money instead on developers who make the games I like playing. some people won't do this, pirate what they can get away with, and it just hurts the whole game development system. whether there are true lost sales or not, if people like playing vidya, they have to provide incentive for the people who make them. vidya takes a shitload of time and effort to produce and debug for people to enjoy. i'm sure some people do it in their spare time as a hobby, but that's not the norm if you only want like 1 game per decade; or longer.
wasted dubs. tell that to a patent (((lawyer)))
Jesus was the first pirate so everything is daijoubu.
There is nothing wrong with copying software.
Here the thing: you don't own the game, you purchase the right to use it; the physical copy and the data made at your disposal is only "a incidence" of that right you purchased. It was done this way so publishers could have a legal recourse if you copied the data (because the data is "lent" to you, the only thing you own is the right to use it). This is also why you get a 1-year usage limitation with most professional software (Office, Photoshop, etc.) and need to either renew your license, or buy the package again to obtain a new license.
There are two basic kinds of pirates. There are those that do it because they just want free shit, and those who do it out of dissatisfaction with the normal purchase (either because of pricing, accessibility of the game, game quality, etc).
Unfortunately you can't really do much to actually stop the former and lead them into purchasing the game legitimately. These people are almost guaranteed to have never bought your game in the first place so to attempt to stop them or try to reclaim them is pointless. As for the second group, the way you win those disaffected customers is to ameliorate their grievances - price your games more reasonably, don't chop the games up to bits, and make the game easier to access by not putting it behind any arbitrary barriers.
DRM is a not a solution to any of these problems. Firstly, it doesn't dissuade those first kinds of pirates. If anything, it would embolden them to try and crack your shit even faster. It also doesn't do anything to appeal to disaffected customers. It only really has the potential to create even more disaffected customers thanks to the more restrictive measures enforced through the DRM. That fat fuck Gabe was right when he said "Piracy is a service problem" - if it's more convenient for the customer to play a pirate copy than a legitimately purchased copy, why would they pay for your inferior version You can't create any form of DRM that would attract more customers because inherently DRM is a method of restricting customers through limiting legitimate use of your product.
The same could be said about gun control.
Surprisingly, yes.
Everybody is pirating games, even pdp. It just feels wrong paying more than 15€ on a game.
/tread/
No it's not.
If you wish to have one an offence, the other must be, too.
Reselling your game, even to a friend for half the price of original purchase with no middle man, is the exact same thing.
Don't bring up the Jews on this one.
If lawyers wish to target people for copying/stealing a program, they should also be expected to crack down on second-hand selling of digital licenses All consoles and games have a digital license. In the past, when things were on discs and not done online, it was just harder to enforce.
If Microsoft is to ban someone from their services for using a pirated game, they should also ban anyone using a second-hand disc.
In fact, stealing/copying the program is bad, but doing the same thing with profit involved, going to a party that is not the manufacturer, is a more serious offence.
Pirating out of dissatisfaction is not an argument.
You pirate because you wish to use the software/program/game.
I am yet to hear of a single person who downloads every single Adobe CS program 10 times over and never uses them just to give Adobe the finger.
Does your only knowledge of imageboard culture come from /r/Holla Forums?
I wasn't saying they pirate purely to make a message of their dissatisfaction. Of course they want to use the products if they're pirating them. How you got that from my post I don't understand.
I'm saying they are dissatisfied with the model to get the products legitimately, so they turn to illegitimate means to acquire them. This is why more DRM and other barriers to product accessibility are not a solution to that issue, it only has to potential to create more dissatisfaction with the legitimate method of purchasing products.
You have it wrong user
He spelled "tread"
Gee, I wonder how I thought that's what you meant…
Giving a corporation money for DRM riddled products, naw
The only thing I ever willingly give money to is FOSS
The capitalists are cunning, they want us to feel bad for when their employees, whom they exploit and profit enormously off, don't get paid for their work. They basically want to guilt is into keeping the system in place.
Pirate all your shit, and if after paying for your bills and other things that should not be privatised, buying food and after giving your greedy landlord his money, if you have something left over give it to a decent charity and/or save for a rainy day.
Found the commie cuck.
I'll stop pirating when they return the concept of public domain to me.
Untill then as far as I'm concerned they broke their side of the deal, so I have no obligation to uphold mine.
Are you retarded or something?
Most of the time pirated copies are a better experience of the game than the "legit" version. Like when you pirate a movie you just watch the movie, but when you buy the movie or go to a theater you have to watch a bunch of bullshit ads even though you already paid em.
Governments making a big deal out of piracy are just using it as cover to push more invasive anti-privacy laws and trying to gain more control over the internet in general.
Do you not know how to retrieve video files from your own dvd/blurays?
Do you actually sit through prerolls on dvds?
You don't even have to sit through them at all, shit like PS3 will take you to the menu with a press of a button, and PC's add, maybe, an extra click or two.
C'mon now, we're not talking about tech literate people, we're talking about normalfags who buy a DVD and put it in their DVD player. When you try to skip ads it comes up with some message about "This action is not allowed" or something like that.
It's bullshit that paying customers get a worse experience than pirates. Like always-online single player games where the cracked copy has vastly superior performance.
That seems like a personal problem if people are that retarded.
Piracy creates the environment where legitimate use of software is inhibited.
Seriously nigger? Do you think the fucking PS3 is that hard to grasp? You just pop a dvd in the fucker and it starts automatically, and then you assume people aren't going to be pressing button on the ps3 controller trying to find out which one skips through all the ads?
What's retarded about someone wanting to buy a DVD and be able to watch it on their DVD player without having to watch a bunch of unskippable ads every time they put it in? How is that the fault of piracy?
This bullshit that the average consumer should be expected to rip all their DVDs (WHICH IS ALSO ILLEGAL) to get to just watch the product they paid for is ridiculous.
ripping your dvd for personal usage is not illegal, and again, being so retarded you don't know how to circumvent preroll ads is a personal problem.
Again, what's retarded? Maybe you can get around it on the PS3 but in a normal DVD player, you're literally not allowed to skip the ads.
title
01
OH WOW IT'S SO FUCKING IMPOSSIBLE HOLY SHIT
Well maybe you shouldn't be a cheap little nigger then, a fucking PS2 does the same thing and costs about as much a dvd player did the last time i've ever saw one.
I'M SMRT LOOK AT ME RIP DEE VEE DEES
He says while breaking them in half.
Listen up you dense faggots, I'm not talking about me. I'm talking about the average fucking consumer that shouldn't be expected to jump through hoops to enjoy the product they paid for without dealing with a bunch of extra bullshit. Then you wonder why piracy is growing, it's not just because it's free but also because pirates get a superior experience.
And the average consumer owns a fucking PS2, if they can't figure out how that works, then i don't know how you expect them to know how to torrent a file or rip a dvd.
Nintendo does it all the time.
Jesus christ you are sucking some corporate dick. I bet you support Denuvo too, right?
Depends which country you live in. What kind of DVD you are ripping, and what you are doing with it.
No, you're just bitching about a non-issue and trying to pretend that's a legit reason to pirate, as if you really need one.
Like I said faggot, it's not an issue for me. It's an issue with the industry. I don't understand how you can sit there and argue FOR paying customers getting fucked over for the crime of actually paying for the shit they want. Sure there are plenty of ways to circumvent it, but for the average bastard he's stuck with a subpar experience. Most DVD players don't allow you to skip ads, and don't give me this bullshit about playstations. Just because you can get around the issue doesn't mean it isn't there.
It's not an issue period. You're just trying to find something, anything to vindicate you pirating shit.
The only issue here is you or your strawman either bought a shitty DVD or are simply too retarded to figure out how it works, as points out.
Are you fucking stupid, or just illiterate? For the last time, most DVD players block you skipping the ads. It doesn't matter what fucking button you push, a message pops up on your screen to say that action isn't allowed at this time or whatever.
And I'm not trying to justify shit, you faggot. I'm talking about some real anti-consumer bullshit which you're rabidly defending because you're a good little materialist consumer who buys what you're told to buy and doesn't complain about it.
I don't think you know what a fucking strawman is. Your argument that you can just use a playstation is the strawman, my argument that the average consumer, the average guy buying a DVD and trying to watch it is the crux of the issue. It's not some hypothetical situation, it's the most common situation for people who buy DVDs still.
1. Play DVD. 2. When the trailer starts, click Stop twice. 3. Then click Play. Voila! The DVD will now play your movie.
Now watch as he tells me you can't press the stop button when watching an ad. didn't even take me a minute to find this with a search.
I've personally seen DVD players pop up messages saying you need to wait whenever you press any buttons during the ads at the beginning. Even if your little trick works, it will only work on some DVD players. And even then, people should not have to learn tips n tricks just to access the content they fucking paid for without having to sit through more goddamn advertising.
Man, if they could beam advertising into our dreams you'd sit there defending it saying "It's no big deal, if you just buy this pill then you won't remember your dreams anyway! Stop making a big deal out of nothing."
Why are you even continuing this discussion?
The guy you are responding to is either so far gone down the corperate cocksucking gloryhole that he would applaud and celebrate disney lobbying for a tax to ensure their profits are kept healthy, or he allready directly works for some special interest RIAA/MPAA style group.
Hell i just dug out a shitty budget dvd player that i bought at walmart for 30 bucks and it had zero issue skipping the ads at the press of a button. So either this is a dvd specific issue or you bought your player from israel.
You're trying to compare fucking invasion of privacy on the biggest scale possible to having a little trouble skipping ads on DVDs. Yeah, no, fuck this, i'm going go to watch a movie
One last thing though, this conversation got me to dig a couple of cheap budget quality DVD players out of my closet, and neither one had any problem skipping the ads with a press of a button.
One last thing though: you're full of shit and all your DVD players don't let you skip ads.
That's the funny thing about unsubstantiated anecdotes…
Then by your own logic, the standard feature of title selection which ignores privlege escalation by a dvd is not unusuable on any dvd player.
The simple fact of the matter is that piracy vs buyfagging should be a decision between free shit you need to jump through hoops for vs non-free convenience+supporting the dev, instead of between free shit you need to jump through hoops for or not free shit that you need to jump through hoops for.
Not sure. On the one hand, I think you'd be fucked from a legal perspective. You're outright admitting that you're guilty simply by utilizing your defense. On the other hand, crazier shit has happened; OJ Simpson murdered his fucking wife but nobody gives a shit about that.
I think the law is more likely to go after "distributors", teams that crack and distribute games. Those guys are fucking smart, the best ones are likely educated and experienced software engineers who can cover their tracks.
shut the fuck up
[C]onsumer and [P]irate are in an argument over piracy.
[C] has bought a product while [P] has pirated it.
[C] has accused [P] of committing theft.
[P] tells [C] that the word 'theft' is a poor choice of word, as 'forgery' is a more apt term since nothing was actually stolen, it was unlawfully duplicated.
[P] asserts that the question is if any harm was done from the action and resolves to say that it is unknowable.
[C] asserts that something was stolen.
[C] believes that had piracy not been an option than [P] would also be a paying customer and so through piracy has stolen 'higher potential profit' from the creators of the product.
[P] believes in a type of agnostic argument that it is at least currently unproven weather or not if he would have acted differently were piracy not an option.
[P] says that it is entirely possible he still would not have purchased the product.
[P] insinuates an alternate scenario where he enjoys the product and chooses to buy a legitimate copy to show support with the idea that more products like the one he enjoyed will be made because of it.
[P] goes on to say that it is possible that though talking about the product with first hand experience from piracy can inspire others to buy the product.
[P] claims it is possible that those who hear him talk about the product could also pirate it in turn, but had they never even known about the product and would have continued to be ignorant of it's existence that no "higher potential profit" was lost.
[P] brings up the idea that maybe the product was a bad product and that it is absurdly foolish to support things that you do not approve of since buying a product is an automatic agreement for wanting future installments or rewarding the creators regardless of your personal opinion after purchasing it, directing the product industry slowly but surely to a place that you do not wish the industry to move toward.
[P] could warn others honestly about haphazardly throwing money at things without having to have done so himself, unlike product journalism which operates on being on perpetual good terms with the companies who can give you review copy information to increase ad revenue traffic or the potential to move on to higher paying company positions.
[P] has thus showed the idiocy that the entire criminalization of piracy hinges on one many "what if" scenarios.
The joke is that those same employees they claim pirates screw over are the ones who get screwed over regardless, because those extra profits go tot eh CEO so he can buy a 3rd summer home and attend wine tasting festivals.
Even before they could blame piracy, companies and whole industries found ways to cheat people out of money. Hollywood accounting, which is illegal in most nations, is legal in the US and lets film studios claim movies lost money through creative accounting.
Did you know Forrest Gump was a financial failure? Of course you didn't know that because it made piles of cash, but the film studio claimed it lost money all so they could get out of paying the original author a dime of royalties. Same deal with Patch Adams- they used the same tactics to fuck Hunter "Patch" Adams over the money he was promised from the film, money he was going to use to build a hospital.
And you know what? When I see these celebs getting paid millions and living in big homes, I don't feel a need to support their asses. They have enough money. Gene Simmons is a greedy fuck with more cash than he can ever spend before he dies, Led Zeppelin and Metallica are fucking plagiarists.
No sympathy for these assholes, they're not being hurt. The ones who are hurt, are hurt no matter what, we're not the ones responsible.
and as a further example of how companies want to fuck over paying customers
motherboard.please use archive.is/en_us/article/the-video-game-industry-is-lobbying-against-your-right-to-repair-consoles
Their argument is that if you do not go to a repair center or buy a new copy, but instead fix your own personal copy yourself, then you deprive them of profits and it should be illegal. Using the DRM/DMCA/corporate secrets angle, of course, the same shit car companies have been using to try and make repairing your own vehicle illegal.
And it's not just the damn game companies, it's fucking toy companies and others. Okay so if I break the hand off my action figure and glue it on instead of buying a new copy, I'm committing a crime now?
Fuck these industries, and fuck Trump for supporting their shit.
oh fuck you, it's vice
They're pretty biased in their views, you know. The whole point of using archive.is, is that it allows us to review content from websites without contributing web page traffic/revenue.
The only logic i've displayed is that personal anecdotes are bullshit. Try again.
It goes deeper than that user.
The whole concept of copyright was intended to prevent other corperations from bascially stealing the ideas of their competitors and just making them slightly cheaper. It was invented in a time when copying anything, even a pamphlet, required a machine the size of a small room. It was never intended to stop private individuals copying things for their own personal use.
Whats more is that it was balanced out by the concept of public domain. The deal is that we as a society protect you from competition from a limited time so you can make a reasonable profit, and then after that we accept the fact that culture is a communal thing, and your works become public property so the next generation can build on it, ensuring progression.
Ever wonder why movies/music/games have stagnated and are mostly creatively bankrupt? Its because you can make one good thing and coast on it for eternity. Not just your life, but the lives of your kids, grandkids, the guy who buys your company when your grandkids want to yacht around the world, his kids and his grandkids.
This is because USA corprerations paid politicians in america to extend copyright to basically infinity. And then paid those same politicians to strongarm foreign countries into accepting those same copyright laws.
It's even more shitty when you realise the spearhead of this bullshit is Disney, who built their empire on repackaging public domain works. They crossed the bridge and paid some crooks to burn it behind them so no one else could use it. Now they wander around all puppy-dog eyes because the mean greedy pirates are trying to download an avi of their latest soft reboot of a hard reboot of a 13th sequel to an adaptation of a comic based on a retelling of the heros journey.
I once read an article about how the music industry is insane. Because for all of human history up untill the 1900s (like 1930-40 i think) musical culture was read/write. People freely copied music, changed, it, played it with their friends, etc. You'd hear a song and learn to play it and then teach other people. Then the suits got involved and music became a commodity. To be bought and sold. But that required excessive and unnatural protections on it. Music became a read only culture.
TL;DR Jews ruined culture to line their own pockets and now they try and make you feel guilty becuase they feel entitled to a portion of your paycheck.
Yeah, and your anecdote about a dvd having the capability to privilege escalate above title selection bullshit.
Glad you have admitted to being too stupid to use a dvd.
A more interesting would be what happens when you get charged for pirating a game and then simply go out and buy the game before you have to present yourself before a jury or something.
They can't force you to present a receipt because you could've bought it a yard sale.
Or even better, borrow the game from a friend and say it's yours.
Are you confusing me with some other user in this thread? Do you know you're talking to more than one person?
How fucking retarded are you? Is this your first day using an imageboard? What the fuck are you doing?
Pirate because they don’t deserve your money. Who gives a shit about DRM?
...
Yeah that's bullshit. Not being able to take specific melodies from other copyrighted songs to make your own songs doesn't hinder anyone from making good musical progress.
I'd even argue music stagnated ever since the classical period of music ended, which was way before copyright started being enforced so diligently.
Same with movies. They're not shit because you can't copy other movies, they're shit because the market feeds off of shit.
It's can range from ok to shit, depending on how gentle it is.
As crazy as the music industry is, have they tried to prohibit you from owning/selling used copies of their work like game devs/publishers are trying/actually getting away(depending on the platform) with? Or rather, have they treated people who bought their product used as if they were no better than pirates?
No, because I know what a VPN is
… Of course they have? How do you think they reacted to people being able to record songs off the radio when casettes where invented? Here's a hint: It's the same way the movie industry reacted when people suddenly became able to record movies from TV when VHS was invented.
Suffice to say they didn't take it well and went running to the closest government crying about lost revenue. This shit aint new.
Both industries have also tried to "innovate" the ability to resell items you own out of existance. So yeah, i'd say that counts as treating second hand buyers as shit.
I never said it stopped you from being able to innovate. But why bother when you can make just as much, if not more, money by just re-releasing the same shit over and over? Progress is still made, new artists break out with unique ideas. But way fucking slower than if you didn't have massive conglomerates owning half the culture.
Either way, it's not a good thing. And my larger point still stands.
I'm with this guy. Just look at how Napster turned out - centralized and privately owned, like "green logo with horizontal stripes". Or how "streaming movies" turned out. It turned to "green logo vertical stripes". It all got privately owned and centralized. And the funny thing is that, it is owned and controlled by the same companies that were fighting against it before. Funny shit. Not funny though.
Stallman was right wasn't he. Software will control the user, not the otherway around
Just go full gay already you massive fucking faggot. Its not like there's a difference between homo and femdom.
Not even remotely like what i'm talking about. I'm not talking about recording random shit off the radio or even copying a fucking tape, i'm talking about buying a product from the publisher and inside a box is a one time use download code and a disc that does nothing. Or that disgusting Xbox one drm where you had to jump through multiple hoops just to play a used copy of the game, and was so bad it killed the console before it even started. Or steam in general for that matter where refunds were verboten for almost a decade and you can remove the game from your library, but not sell it off. Even the worst shit i can think of, like divx was better, if only because IIRC divx was just a rental service that used diiscs as storage space.
How is selling someone a product that has a single use worse than trying to lobby an entire format into illegality as an attempt to stop piracy?
Obviously they're both bad, but one of clearly orders of magnitude worse than the other.
Because it's actually working.
No it's not. People will always find a way to circumvent DRM. The idea is that circumventing DRM is illegal, even if you have legal access to the content you circumvent the DRM to obtain. Copyrights expire, but DRM doesn't. Full video is really good, starts talking about the ECE around 20 minutes:
youtube.com
Kill yourself.
What if you bought a copy for console and decided you wanted to play the PC version?
Haven't had the experience with games personally, do it for books where I own the paper version but wasn't a digital copy for traveling.
That's illegal user and you should feel bad. The corperation that bought the company that paid the dude peanuts to make that deserves your money and that's why it's ok for them to sell you the same product over and over again each year with little to no changes.
You aren't allowed to port it to new hardware yourself, and if you do they can just download that version off the internet and sell it to people.
Haven't you learned yet? Corperations are entitled to your money. Because they exist. And they allready have more money than you, which means they're more deserving than you.
Welcome to america.
if you can get something for free, paying for it is a charity.
Maledom is the most plebeian fucking fetish. You're already implicitly dominating women just by existing as a man. They have piss-poor upper body strength so they can't even overpower you if they're taller than you by half. All of their instincts are to be meek and approval-seeking and to worry that you find them terribly unsexy. The entire female psyche comes pre-compromised by male impositions before you can even lay a finger on it.
The single most effeminate thing a man can do is find it necessary to tighten the screws even further than they already are by demanding that the woman call him "daddy" or do servile shit. They already fucking fantasise about being raped, ravished, or "taken," already fantasise about being permanently neotenised "little girls" or "bimbo-ified" housewives, and you have to rub it in further by lording over them?
Maledom is like defeating your enemy in honourable single combat, and then when he's laying vulnerable on the ground, declining to give him the coup de grace and choosing instead to pee on him and force him to tell you how bad you kicked his ass. Just stick it in him already and be done with it. He's already submissive to you by virtue of having lost. You don't need to turn it into a creepy fetish act.
The single manliest, most virile thing a man can do is hardcore femdom. Engaging in femdom is like meditating on a mountaintop until you discover the primordial nature of sex, power, and reality, and then coming back down in order to meekly guide your fellow man to that realisation. It's nursing your defeated enemy back to health and forgiving him with Caesar-like magnanimity. When you are physically stronger than a woman and fueled by animal lust to take her and do what you want with her, the most alpha male course of action is to let her tie your hands behind your back, and then eat her ass while she watches anime.
