Magic in Dark Souls

What would you do to improve magic in Dark Souls? This is a question I've been thinking about recently but my lack of experience with magic builds is making it difficult for me to come up with an answer for it. Any another answers?

Well clearly it needs a Satanic element.

I guess I join your thread mega-giga-satan. To improve the magic I would first try lowering the damage for some spells increase it for others. I would then put most of the work into creating effects for those spells like waves, walls, rings, and other things to make the spells much more versatile. I would then greatly increase casting speed, and see how it pans out.

Having light and heavy attacks apply for spells and aiming for starters.

To go into detail I really don't see why charging spells isn't a thing. Oh and lower the number of slow moving projectile variants.

Remove the five thousand different "single target magic arrow" spells.
Add more debuff/buff/utility spells.
Lower both the overall base damage and casting time, but add the ability to charge spells for increased power/duration.

checking those quints, and to answer the question: I get what you mean about the magic, it seems rather plain as far as magic goes but it gets the job done but other than adding more animation or having a hold-it-for-more charged power aspect I don't think there is much you can do.

Variety for starters would be good, the combat spells are generally just like 7 levels of pretty much the same projectile, then three or four variants of homing soul masses and then maybe three or four unique spells that coincidentally are also complete trash no one will ever bother with. More interesting returns on high magic stats would be nice too like increasing buff durations or adding additional effects or something.

A better casting system would be nice too, the current one is fine if you're just using one or two spells to augment regular melee combat but if you're trying to use spells as your primary combat method then it's clunky as fuck. With a melee weapon you have four different attacks (light, heavy, kick and jumping) always instantly available with another four (two handed versions) just one press away and four more (single and two handed roll and run attacks) also easily accessible. With magic you've got one, two if you count whacking someone with a catalyst, and to get to others you have to cycle through them one at a time and in only one direction. Something like a customizable catalyst where you can assign different spells to different inputs would make magic so much more enjoyable.

Yeah, treating damaging spells more like weapons for balance would be very helpful.

I'd also do away with atunement slots and try to come up with a better solution, as all they do is ensure that the more gimmicky spells never see the light of day.

Hail Satan!

For magic, I'd see if making magic more common would be possible, maybe by introducing weapons for mages that you can attune certain low level spells to, to get a quicker spell cast in exchange for less damage or more limited effects. That should help get more people in to close range and make weaker spells feel better.

On the opposite end, where spells become incredibly powerful and take forever to cast, I'd consider how to add complexity to each. Maybe something simple like a charge or mana burn mechanic that lets you invest more casts / mana to get a bigger effect.

Last solution I'd look at would be tying magic to weapon development, adding additional effects like say lightning damage if you use some holy sword with the spell equipped. It risks homogenization of build identity though, since if you make the knock on effect too strong there would be little reason to be a pure spellcaster and instead just a melee class who has to spec into a type of magic for bonuses.

magic was fine and viable in dark souls 2

Why do so many people here want Dark Souls magic to be satanic? I don't get it.

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aren't*

Dark Souls is inherently anti christian.

Like Skyrim.

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I never made a magic character in either of Dark Souls 1 or 2 (the only ones I've played). Should I bother? Or is it a disgrace to manly people who wield great swords?

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That just doesn't make sense at all.

miracles and soularts have the same source
some npc in the game says that sorceries doesn't really draw power from anywhere but your soul which is not true
and miracles are drawing power from "god" which is only partially true
at least in demon's souls it is heavily implied by Talisman Of Beasts
i believe only hexes are "human" in origin

Who says being a mage doesn't allow you to wield a greatsword? There's a reason the Moonlight Greatsword exists.

Basic elemental magics should be available. Why not have an ice or electric version of pyromancy? It'd also be nice to be able to use magic to acquire a corporeal bow, staff, or blade that scales with my intelligence and has no standard duration, but a lower than average durability. That way, you can cast a corporeal weapon spell and you won't have to recast it every 5 fucking minutes. Some sort of necromancy would also be cool.

HOLD SPELL, let you hold onto your spell when you are done casting to be released at your leisure this gets rid of the problem DS1 had of


I made a magic fencer with gravelord sword dance and a flip ring that was really fun.

Y'know I wanted to use the flip ring with the set of thorns, but its just too heavy.

slow rituals and alchemy, like no direct attackes but "magical land mines", and temporary improvements using potions, curses (you hurt the enemy to get blood sample, then escape and cast a curse using the blood sample), summonigs, no instant healing items (magical healing is slow)

It might be worth it for 2 if you liked 2 since 2 has probably the best balance of spell/caster variety and viability. In 1 spells are mostly just boring since there's no fancy catalysts, only two or three special magic weapons, you basically only use great and great heavy soul arrow for like 75+% of the game and damage wise you'll be either one shotting or tickling enemies with no real middleground.
In 2 there's some catalyst weapons and I think you can get hexes and spells like soul greatsword that mix up the gameplay more.
3 is the only one I think I ever finished a full magic build in and I wouldn't really recommend it, it's probably the worst for spell balance with there being basically no reason to use anything but great and great heavy soul arrow again, all the gimmicky spells are total dogshit and the damage on everything is pretty much awful throughout the game even when you go full glass cannon with all the +magic damage gear which is all only available near the end of the game anyway. The catalyst weapons are all pretty shit too. It's possible the DLC fixed things somewhat but I haven't heard anyone saying anything like that so odds are it's all still as tedious and barely viable as it was at launch.

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while I agree 2 treats its magic better you are forgetting about some good stuff in 1

you've earned that one

Super satin has come for the sinners
Play it like armored core. Magic is guns, really good guns that shoot homing rounds. Put on heavy armor and be unmoved as you cast some UGS tier damage at longsword pace. If you put the casting elements on your main hand and put a crossbow and a sword on your offhand you'll start to play how a caster should be playing. And then if you want to get tricky stylish you just need to put on a greatbow and use it like a back option, like you're using a rail gun or that super overpowered laser canon.
Most people play DS to midroll and play with as little weight as possible, but when you forget about weight and just start putting armor on for poise you start playing like a master; the game lightens up the load because enemies won't stun you, so getting hit once will mean you can kill them or hit them into a stun for a sippy if need be, or keep going until you kill them or stun them again. Magic is great for that because your cast times are great sword and ultra great speeds, meaning you will have to poise through some attacks if something gets close, which it will, because you'll be standing still the whole time.

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????

They should make it like Dragons Dogma.

Well mythology is hugely based on traditional european religions, closely on greek pantheon.

Magical tanks worked in the first Dark Souls because you were able to cast using heavy armor without being interrupted, but clearly that wasn't the direction the devs wanted the game to go, so they decided to keep fucking with Poise until they almost completely removed it.
So, if you want to play any other game from the Dark Souls series, you'll get fucked up if you make a tank.
It works on DS1, though.

I thought we were talking about DS1. It's pointless to try shit with the other games because 3 looks better and plays well enough, but it's short and doing anything besides midroll and fast roll is worthless, and DS2 has good PVP, but it's shit in terms of art design and level design.

Weapon tiers ruined it.

Copy dragons dogma.

Add more utility spells and applications.
Dark Souls is too combat heavy in its current form for utility spells to be effective.
In Dark Souls 1 and 2, Soul Arrow is the best spell to use and its the first spell you get. Its great even at higher levels because of how well it scales, how many casts you get of it and its short attack animation. In terms of utility spells the only one that would see much use on your first playthrough would be the slowfall one but even that is limited. Other spells are either purely for PVP or break enemy scripts(like Hush) making them act unpredictably. The way levels are structured you cannot bypass a lot of enemies and the way encounters are scripted using Hush would just cause enemies to bunch up instead of attacking you at their supposed triggers. Then you have stuff like Repair, Magic Shield, Magic Weapon and so on which is largely inconsequential because both magic shield and magic weapon are time limited and casting spells also takes stamina so you wouldn't want to deplete it by blocking.

Despite all this Magic is fucking OP. You can cheese every single encounter in the game and having a short ranged attack that replenishes every time you sit on a bonfire is great. The only thing more OP than just firing soul arrows with 50 int using the Staff of Wisdom is using a bow and arrow because of how greater of a range advantage you get.

This. If there's one thing Jap Skyrim did right, it's the magic.

I still say that Magicka had one of the best magic casting mechanics I've ever seen in a game. Widly creative, versatile, free-form and requires actual effort to cast all your favorite spell combinations quickly and correctly, and you will cause problems for yourself or your companions if you fuck up.

It's hard to make good magic systems because magic is inherently a fictional, intangible thing, so there's nothing in the real world we can model it around. Unlike melee combat or guns, which we can study and mimic easily.

I wish with all my heart that Platinum will one day meet Brandon Sanderson and a Mistborn action RPG is born. Fuck. That series is how you do magic properly.

Pyromancy:

Magic:

Miracles

QUINTS

?????

He's kind of right.

Central to the souls series is a sense of entropy - a steady loss over time. Things will never be as good as they once were, if you're lucky you can catch a shade of former glory. There is no true permanence, no eternity. Slowly everything crumbles into Dark, a steady destruction against which one may only struggle.

Christianity, however, and many other religions, is all about permanence. Immortal souls are what people /are/ (they have bodies, but they *are* souls) and these cannot be destroyed or eroded in any way. The reward for diligence and care in the path of the religion is an eternity of glory. God is eternal. And so on.

Fuck no it shouldn't. You can make them weak as shit and have long cast times to mitigate the problem that comes with infinite heal spells. In combat you'll be fucked if you try to heal, but if you find a safe space you can heal your asshole back to being fine. Even with a party heal, if you make it weaker than just sipping, but enough to help if an area is making you sip way too often it'll be fine. It should still probably scale with faith, and party helping miracles, since most miracles are utilities, should act as though the persons affected by it are also casting, so if they have a low faith threshold a heal won't do as well for them as someone with pure faith or split strength and faith.

That doesn't mean that it is anti-christian though. It just means it is different.

Don't forget that souls aren't souls as such, too, souls are simply some measure or other of spirital power that can be expended to augment the body, or even be used as currency in Lordran and similar areas.

It's an affront to the basic Christian principle of permanence, though trying to tie Dark Souls to Christianity in general is extremely reaching when it's an entire world where Christ and his virtues don't exist.

Eh, fair enough I guess. But I think I would do something similar to DD where spells can't heal over a certain amount based on damage taken. To heal up to full you'd need to use estus- otherwise it would become obsolete, outside quick uses in battle.

Brah, take your whiny baby version of Christianity and shove it waaaay up your butthole.

Nigger I just said trying to tie Dark Souls to Christianity was reaching.

Ah, thought you were the other guy. Didn't bother checking IDs

But if you take nordic version of christianity, those believe in no afterlife, nothing after death.
There clearly are deviations from the *basic christianity* that you speak of, regardless of how heretical you may find them.

It's okay user. I love you.

Pretty much.
Making it long cast and very powerful could be it. It would also enforce using regular swords to beat boss until you have longer moment to use spell.
System DD has would even work here, as you could either cast weaker version of spell or drop it and dodge.

God doesn't approve of homos user

remove all ranged direct damage spells. magic should compliment the melee gameplay with utility and buffs, not replace your main source of damage.

Super Satan

dark souls its one of those japanese rpgs, those are always about killing god

Don't want to highjack the OP, but I'm watching old videos of Dark souls 1 and it hit me, the game's not that great. When I first played it I thought it was really good but I'm just realizing it's not that great. DS2 and 3 are huge steaming turds I don't have to justify that.

I'd like both please.

Remove all offensive magic. Buffs, effects, and healing only.