Do you even need to attract and recruit liberals to win your revolution?

Do you even need to attract and recruit liberals to win your revolution?

Other urls found in this thread:

No, in fact, they'll probably the final line fighting to the death to preserve the establishment

I'd take a punch to the nuts rather than let that happen.

Yet where will you get enough allies to make your revolution possible?
You need some kind of numbers to fight against the police, military (that is if you can get soldiers, even officers on your side).

we need liberals so we can act smug and superior to them; after all, isn't that why we call ourselves "leftists" and wear militancy like it's a chic fashion trend?

Yeah we need as many people as possible
It won't happen unless there really are compounding contradictions in capitalism that will make it unbearable for people who've experienced it while it was "good"
I think it may come to a head in my lifetime

I really don't think there will be violent revolution in "democratic" countries

There will never be a violent revolution in Western states unless living conditions detoriate to the point where it becomes unbearable, which I don't see happening, I would guess we simply outsource our suffering along with our labor force to poorer countries.

If anything we will be hit with violent attacks from refugees and terrorists once climate change really ramps up and destroys the livelihood of millions of people who are subject to exploitation under the global capitalist system. These people will have nowhere to go but to the rich states, among those the Western ones, but judging from the current political climate we are nowhere prepared for the situation. There are thinkers who have theorized right now that the Syrian conflict is largely driven by climate change as well. ISIS is only the beginning.

However, a non-violent revolution is definitely possible I would say and perhaps even the most successful if we want to create a 21st century communism. 20th century communism all succumbed to the same mistake of authoritarian rule.


It's because most of these "millennials" aren't "misguided". They have no conscience. No principles. No beliefs. They're totally dead on the inside. They're just left-flavored but it's a trick.

What are you even talking about you insufferable shitposter?

Christ, the quality here has become fucking abysmal recently.

t. Liberal


and the answer is yes

I hate liberals, you just sound like a salty old fuck. What's wrong, didn't capitalise on the 90's boom and missed out on your Ford Capri and detached house?

And why do you think that is? Do you think that millennials are hardwired to serve capitalism? Do you think that they spout liberal nonsense because they're paid by the FBI?

Fuck no, they follow neoliberal narratives because they're taught to do it in school. Imagine growing up as a kid/teen in the Bush/Obama years, and slowly realizing that the world around you is getting more fucked (even in you don't acknowledge it consciously). Then, going to college or university, your professors, a few of whom may actually be COINTELPRO) tell you that idpol is the way to raise awareness about current events. Naturally, you would think that racism, sexism, etc. would be the cause of all of these problems, while being unaware that the nature of capitalism causes these problems to arise in the first place.

Holla Forums shows compassion and sympathy for working class whites that are steeped in white supremacist idpol. I don't get why we shouldn't give confused youngsters on the other side of the spectrum the same treatment.

90% of politically-minded people are liberals or conservatives so yeah you're going to have to talk to people who don't agree with you on everything and will try to argue back instead of talking about how right you are. Be strong user.

It's about stripping back the mask of virtue that functions as self-reinforcing dissonance.

Fucking hell.

Rightists have grown up submerged in leftist political advocacy, and realize they are apart from it. In coming to leftism, a rightist knows they must at least reevaluate their own positions, causing them also to reevaluate their view of our positions.

Liberals, on the other hand, think that they are already leftists. Any statements that are heterodox from liberalism ("mass economic immigration is exploitative", "free trade is imperialism", "gun control and abortion are never going to change from their status quo") are mindlessly brushed aside as rightism, and anything to the effect of "you aren't leftist enough" is taken to mean "I want you to double down on the idpol and self-flagellation".

Rightists need merely be open to conversation, liberals must completely reject all of their beliefs before conversation is possible.

It's by my cousin Jeffrey, he works down at the Parks Department. It's a book about nothingness.

No, but they need to be recruited to not end up against the wall.

You realize most of these people are poorly disguised Holla Forumsyps, yes?

You need to be able to recognize Holla Forums infestation better.

And this is the problem with using a political spectrum. The left/right paradigm is defined by its extremes within the overton window. Liberals can't conceive of anything lefter than Barney Sanford. And we're not really to the "left" of them, we have a completely different view. Rightists get that we're something very different at the very least, but liberals don't understand there's more to communism than its iconography. They think we're liberals with a weird fetish for the dictators who use certain symbols.

The reason Holla Forums refuses to show compassion and sympathy for misguided college students is because imageboards are steeped in contrarian bullshit culture. Some people here still deep down just want to stick it to the normies.

It's more because they're spoiled cunts close to the absolute apex of human pirivlege throughout all human history, living like the 18th century french aristocracy, who've never known responsibility or hardship a day in their lives, and it literally doesn't matter what they think about anything.

Not all college students are "spoiled cunts" you bitter retard. You're aping neocon rhetoric about "muh milennials" and fail to see that a lot of these young people are being saddled with immense, unpayable debts. Your economic analysis is weak and you're in fact very likely in the same age demographic as the college students you deride. You're proof positive of the point I was making.

You guys aren't nearly as clever as you think you are.

I-I'm sure we can work with these people, they just need to be introduced to the right ideology!

Butthurt college kid detected. Sorry you fell for the memes, kid.

>the left's on the right trajectory
That is correct.


What you don't seem to understand is how bourgeois moralism works. You don't tell them they're the good guys, because they'll just ignore the critical aspects of what they're saying and go back to sucking their own dicks forever. You need to rob them of their sanctimony.

There's also a clear distinction between naive college liberals who believe that the system needs change but have been misled into thinking that just reforming racism and whatever away will fix it and don't understand these issues are endemic to capitalism and can only be fixed by destroying the system that perpetuates these issues, and the obnoxious liberal ideologues who are specifically responsible for misleading so many people, who write journalistic articles about this shit and who are paid for it. The former can often be shown that reformism is ultimately too weak to address the issues they care about, the latter will NEVER, in their ENTIRE LIVES, accept socialism, they will fight tooth and nail to defend capitalism because they like the system fine the way it is. Just see how this latter group of journos reacted to soft reformist socdem Bernie Sanders, look at the "bernie bros" faux outrage.

I'm sure calling them "spoiled cunts" will do great, dude. Very easy to convince a kid with unpayable debt that he just needs to accept your worldview by saying they're a spoiled cunt who doesn't know anything.

The kid is a conservative. He has just been inculcated into a different form of morality. If he is preoccupied with his own situation above anyone else's, crying about muh debt for his useless degree in opinionology, I mean, sure I feel some sympathy for him, but my heart actually goes out to the billions in squalor. No patience.

People who are preoccupied with their own situation are that way for a reason. If you have massive debt that will never be paid off, it's hard to focus on much else. That's how the system is supposed to work. People can't organize or educate themselves if they're too busy dealing with a dumpster fire of a life.

fucking everybody is preoccupied with their own situation above anyone else's for the most part in late capitalist society, what the hell are you smoking? a lot of these college liberals and sjw's are genuinely concerned for the shit they talk about, what they don't know is that they've been misled into completely ineffectual methods that ignore the root cause of the problem, capitalism. Your view of leftism is fetishistic and your analysis of the modern american economy is based on contrarianism. Student debt is actually a major problem that shows the contradictions of american capitalism. The fact you ignore it because DUDE GENDER STUDIES LMAO shows that you are more interested in feeling superior to your peers than actually working toward socialism. These people can be radicalised, Trump supporters who voted for him because they want their jobs back can be radicalized too. You cannot radicalize the liberal ideologists who work for magazines and you are very unlikely to turn the hardcore nazis who supported Trump into leftists, but for those who are in the middle, who's support is due to being misled, there is always a way.

My point is bourgeois moralism works on how they appear to others. If we make it morally unacceptable to be a liberal, the liberals will starting feel social pressure to conform. I'm not interested in "appealing" to American brats.

NO. I don't want to recruit anybody because that would mean fewer people I can feel superior to!

t. retard

And how, pray tell, would you hope to achieve this? Making it socially unacceptable for be a liberal without also making it socially unacceptable to be a socialist is practically impossible in the west, barring a socialist dictatorship that realistically has no chance in hell of happening any time soon. What your imbecilic, antisocial perspective will result in is in simply making American society increasingly reactionary as the only accepted point of views rapidly shift towards traditional American beliefs such as white supremacy, dogmatic adherence to capitalism, and imperialism.

I've been smoking cigarettes and DMT. You appear to be high on ideology though, Berniebro.

All these assmad American liberals. Holy shit.

I think the real problem isn't the left-right dichotomy as a conclusion to political thought, but the shearing off of economic versus social issues.

Where once leftism and rightism were internally cohesive in an economic/social sense, it is now increasingly common to see leftists that are self-avowedly "economically rightist" and rightists that are "socially leftist".

This, I suspect, is the root of the most degenerate modern offshoots of "leftism" imagining that leftism starts and ends at social issues.

I'm Chilean you stupid bastard. Are you denying the existence of Trump's support from white supremacists? He certainly didn't win the election because of them, but they exist, and I only brought them up to make a point about groups of people that you cannot possibly hope to turn towards the left, the same as the pro-Clinton journalists spreading conspiracies about Russia. You're retarded, insane, and I'm going to assume, possessed of zero actual experience in radical organizations. El que no se da cuenta de su ideologia eres tu, estas comiendo del proverbial tarro de basura y no te das cuenta por que piensas que ser un contreras te hace el weon mas bacan, no como esos malditos normies.

t. clueless Holla Forumsyp

What the fuck are you people even talking about?

dumb frogposter.

A lot of college liberals are socdems or lean toward socialism but have been fed lies by the media and the democratic party and can be radicalised. The hardcore ideologists or the ones who are deeply invested into capitalism are a lost cause. The simple fact is that radical socialists are a tremendously small minority in the western nations and the only way we can win is by gaining ground among people who are either ideologically or materially predisposed towards seeing the benefits of socialism. What you advocate is locking yourself up in your ideologically pure torture chamber and sneering about how superior you are while the world rots. Typical of an imageboard user, but useless for socialism.

That's worked… when? 68/69 ring a bell? OWS? I don't think you understand how uncommitted and feckless most college students are. They do not even understand commitment. Why all the focus on America all the time? Is it because the media-entertainment-"news" complex of global capital is constantly pushing ideology from its center there?


So what's your strategy? Wait until the third world rebels and delivers us unto world socialism? Is this just your excuse for not doing anything at all?

Because America is still the greatest hyperpower in all of history, the capitol of human civilization, and successful revolution here would be the coup of the century.

It's the only ideology that really does make sense.

It's much easier to convince a liberal to become a leftist than fucking fascists.

Even minor destabilizing of the American capitalist system would send shockwaves across the world. American influence reaches everywhere, and I'm basically disgusted by American radical socialists who just give up and retreat into their online internet chambers and expect the workers of the third world to do everything for them.

Fix the discourse first. An incoherent hodgepodge of competing and mutually exclusive infighting sects who can't even agree on who's a monster or not to anyone is a hard sell, wouldn't you agree?


No it isn't. Hence why I body you in every debate.

Oh, are you that post-left faggot who thinks "A BLOO BLOO BLOO… you're so immoral and unfeeling ;_;" is a good argument?

It could have happened here

Post-left to this train wreck means literally "deviates from my beliefs, which I presume to be the accepted consensus or orthodoxy, even though I'm in fact, a tiny minority taken seriously by as near to no one as possible."

Please take the empathy test and post your score, you remain as painfully unaware as ever. I'd be honestly amazed if you scraped double digits.

And you're an interesting case where you've taken the post-left memes so far, you've flipped back around and gone reactionary. It's typical of post-left faggotry that you end up back in the hands of bourgeois ideology, but most of you end up just becoming liberals again, it's somewhat more rare for you to go full reactionary.

I can't even imagine what it must be like to have such a crippled, and warped view of how other people think, behave and feel. People like you are the exact reason I've come to study doxastics and dogma and how it pollutes and permeates the left. You claim others are bound into bourgeois ideology but you have admitted to simply being a misanthrope suffering anomie, and think by inverting the formula and burrowing into a contradictory idea uncritically, you've somehow escaped it. Nothing could be further from the truth. You are every bit a product of capitalist structuration as the people you openly admit to despising (hardly the dispassionate analysis you'd expect of someone in possession of an immortal science), but you have neither the emotional maturity, integrity or courage to begin to see it. Your type assures everyone the discourse is fine, "we're on the right track i got this", yet you can't even keep your ideas straight in the same thread, openly contradicting yourself, and seeing no issue with it ever. Almost like you're - get this, a liberal ideologue - who simply happens to have incorporated aspects of anti-capitalism into your habitual thought. It's amazing to watch you attempt to thread together a coherent narrative that puts Feral Faun on a loop back around to Literal Hitler. It's even more retarded than the horseshoe theory. Keep memeing though, you're a fascinating specimen from my perspective.

m8 if pushed came to shove the bourgeois could literally kill us all and spend a larger than usual sliver of their fortune to get away with it



This is the first time you've ever expressed that my ideas are somehow contradictory and, tellingly, you don't even bother to explain how they're contradictory. I guess I just have to believe you that they are.

Every """argument""" I've seen from you has been nothing but personal attacks peppered with your own brand of armchair psychology.

How about when you within the space of about 3 posts said "culture is a totally meaningless term", then "culture changes over time". Do you not see how your thoughts do not cohere? Or is everything just empty rhetoric for you. Please volunteer more facts about your personal life though, they all go in the dossier.

I don't think liberals who parrot "socially liberal, fiscally conservative" actually know what "fiscal conservative" actually entails. A lot of them seem to think it means balancing the budget, getting rid of bureaucratic fat, and cracking down on needless expenses like shitty fighter jets, which are all reasonable things to want except they go and vote for the guy who shouts "fiscally conservative" and are surprised when their healthcare is repealed. Fascists and libertarians have always been good at coming up with catchy yet empty phrases people love to latch onto.

I don't know why Holla Forums is so hateful towards liberals, but so forgiving towards republican/conservatives(just look at the reaction you get if you dare to talk shit about boot-strapping hicks). I can't bring myself to really hate liberals, because it's like the default ideology if you're not racist or religious/moralist/traditionalist and don't know the first thing about economics, which is most people. Don't know anything about economics but don't hate foreigners and gay people? I guess I'll just be a liberal. I just see most of them as ignorant.

No explanation as to why this is the case, as I've come to expect from you.

If you had bothered paying attention to the context of my post, my point was that culture is a completely meaningless thing to appeal to because it is in a constant state of change, along with the fact that it covers a vast range of social phenomena and can manifest differently from person to person. I wasn't denying the existence of culture, I was saying that it is so broad and changes so frequently that appeals to it were effectively meaningless appeals to emotion.

I don't know if it's flattering or creepy that you've committed facts about my life to memory, btw.

Because liberal "ignorance" is just cowardice. They're the most unbearably arrogant people, literally incapable of even grasping the notion that not everyone agrees with them. Often they sabotage far left political activity with their identity garbage because they are so far up their own asses that when people do openly express views different from their own, they lose their fucking minds and screech like autistic banshees until this aberration in reality makes itself scarce.

The actual average Joe is apolitical.

So when talking heads are speaking on their propaganda channels, and you think "they're just parroting pure ideology", you are delegitimizing them as a speaker based on class interest. Does porky then get to turn around and say "that's an ad hominem"? When you accuse others of false consciousness you are delegitimizing them, rather than their arguments, and so on. I shouldn't have to explain this, but you are fundamentally incapable of clarity of thought, and it's amusing to point out such classic errors. My only interest is ascertaining why people are like this, you seem to think you are owed a conversation though, because you're a perma-assmad American, but you aren't. Convincing you personally of anything is the least of anyone's concerns. For this reason, I'm not interested in having a little debate with you, as it's at most, pointless. The reason for this will become clear if you do the empathy test and post the results. I can already tell you the answer though: it's autism.

Like I said, I'm studying you. It's creepy.

Uhh… they don't?

What the fuck are you even talking about? When have I ever even hinted that I don't take other people's arguments into consideration? Also, I hate to break it to you buddy, but this is what you do.

Since you're so obviously interested in psychology, you should look up the term "projection" sometime.

It's impossible for you to have determined this, because you've never actually made a single argument. You've been doing this armchair psychology bullshit from square one. You don't actually argue any of your points, when you're backed into a logical corner, you attempt to get out of it by trying to label your opponent as some kind of psychotic for disagreeing with you. It's classic argumentum ad hominem and the only one that's thinks it's working in your favor is you.

You got BTFO, deal with it.

Haha, until next time Spurdo. Stay mad, and keep saying "armchair" and "not an argument" like it can change your psychic constitution as I have so accurately detailed.

Less verbose this time, I see. Getting backed into a corner again?

Gonna go run off again like you usually do and then claim that you "bodied" me at a later time, probably after this thread has expired so it can't be linked to?

Holla Forums-tier generalization

And you don't exactly have any evidence that people ignore my posts. It's yet another claim you pulled out of nowhere.


Is this a shitty attempt at samefagging?


Then why are you butting in? Assmad fascist?

In case you've not noticed this is a public forum.
If you want a private conversation please use the PM function.

No excuse for random shitposting.

Like anything you've posted is of value? Piss of retard.


I know, especially when I'm having to compete with such great posts as "You got BTFO, deal with it."

Liberals and their children provide most of the funding. Ask Bill Ayers.

No you need to recruit conservatives to win a revolution.

Not sure if sarcasm.

Here's a curveball: Will you ever grow up and stop being anally expropriated on every thread by the specter of American liberal-conservatives?

Not sure what you're talking about.

am a liberal millennial, can confirm

This so fucking much. American liberals are the most vacuous, superficial cunts out there. This might have been forgivable up until the 2016 election, but after what Hillary Clinton did to Bernie Sanders in front of the entire world, anyone who still identifies as a liberal isn't worth your time trying to convert.

Holla Forums and Holla Forums

They aren't souless, they're just stupid through no fault of their own, for the most part. They can be educated, particularly the youth.


This. Liberals are far more likely to think that think that the system works and that any problems with it are the result of individual actions or beliefs. Right wingers on the other hand, usually believe that the system is rigged against them to some degree. As a result it's a lot easier to convert them to socialism since they aren't as attached to the system.

Reminder that orthodox marxism is literally the shittiest ideology in existence, and even got fucking bodied by the Austrians.

The biggest problem with liberal stupidity is that it's reinforced by the official institutions of "higher learning" and thus converted into smug. Liberals are encouraged to be arrogant because they're so stupid they don't know they're stupid, and arrogance reinforces that stupidity. In order to convince a liberal you'd first have to get them to understand that they don't know as much as they think they do, and their ego won't allow that.


It is. You don't think the bourgeoisie would give people the ability to overthrow their system(s) without first indoctrinating them with their ideology do you?

B-but muh LTV

Do they also indoctrinate Americans in schools to treat the English speaking internet like the USA?

Liberals need to go back to reddit

Where are all the socialist professors who teach students about how much capitalism sucks, then?


Sorry your education system is the worst in the first world.

We got an unencumbered free thinker here.

The entire western world is capitalist. In fact most of the world is capitalist. Unless you are posting from North Korea or something you have experienced at least some capitalist indoctrination through your education system. That's basic Marxist thought dear.

I'm explicitly discussing political courses. American poli sci and economics courses are neoliberal indoctrination centers.

I'm not from America, get some reading comprehension.

Sorry I thought we were talking about liberal indoctrination, can you clarify your position?

This I agree with.

You keep telling us you're not from America, like it's relevant, and we keep telling you that none of us care.



It's relevant because you keep slapping your fat greasy fingers onto the keyboard and slamming out dank Holla Forums memes about muh liberal KGB indoctrination.

Ah I get it, you use the terms interchangeably to make it look like you have a robust vocabulary.

When it comes to economics, Holla Forums can often accurately identify a problem. They go off course when they misdiagnose the cause of that problem as Jews rather than capitalists. They're absolutely right when they label bourgeois universities as harmful to society's health. Bourgeois universities are full of censorship-happy shitheads. They've failed in their duty to uphold academic standards of free and open inquiry into any idea, and that leads to intellectual stagnation.

When it comes to economics, Holla Forums can often accurately identify a problem. They go off course when they misdiagnose the cause of that problem as Jews rather than capitalists. They're absolutely right when they label bourgeois universities as harmful to society's health. Bourgeois universities are full of censorship-happy shitheads. They've failed in their duty to uphold academic standards of free and open inquiry into any idea, and that leads to intellectual stagnation.

Thank you for taking the time to reply and type up your reply twice :^)

My point was that this is mostly only true in American universities, I did an engineering course in the UK and nothing about capital was mentioned, except the odd talk about how to make some skrilla when a lecturer was prompted. Even the polisci courses don't seem to churn out the retards you get, and our philosophy students are mostly nihilists. I just wanted to shit on the burgercentric internet a bit.

inb4 muh site hosting location, pretty much everything on the English speaking net is in burgertown.

No. The revolution itself is unnecessary. Capitalism will destroy/change itself within a few decades.

Even if you're a snaggle-toothed, limey "conservative" stem autist, you're still a liberal. No one cares where you're from or what degree you have, you egotistical little faggot.

Choke on that quadruple-bypass burger, retard. None of what you've said is true, and Paxman is as much of a useless cuck as you are an autist.

British liberals, everyone.

Holla Forums tier debate, everyone

Dude seriously why are you so hung up on being called a "liberal"? It's OK if you like capitalism. No one will judge you. We just want you dead is all.

Can you people go back to appealing your bans on /r/socialism? You're pretty fucking insufferable. The point has already been made and it's not my job to spoonfed it back to you, you stupid fucking yank.

I'm not a liberal, you're just a retard. Sorry to cause confusion by apparently being ambiguous in making this point clear.

So glad you guys are splitting off from Europe.

t. billy "15 hotdogs a day" o'kacjyzinskikovson

Why doesn't Holla Forums infiltrate the military?

Shitty wars for the most part.

a c c e l e r a t i o n i s t
wars for the most part

You still run the risk of having your legs blown off or life ended for less than minimum wage, without it being for the cause you wanted. Pretty shitty way to go when the military thrives on the lumpens anyway.
Its quite well known by this point.

I'm worried that those against bringing in college aged liberal kids are just Holla Forumsyps in disguise.

It would serve pol very much if leftists excluded people from their ideals and didn't bother appealing to liberals because they're normies.

College liberals and leftists have every reason to unify. Excluding them doesn't benefit anyone except Holla Forums. Liberals and leftists are socially left, and most college liberals don't know anything about leftist economics and I'm sure they'd be willing to learn. They have no reason to disagree, and they're amongst the most eager for change and revolution.

The military stopped being relevant to the majority of the population when the draft ended:
Disclaimer: I do not agree with this article's recommendation to reinstate the draft, though some form of non-military mandatory service might be a good idea.

Shitlibs would be (are) a poison pill if recruited with any of their worst beliefs intact. We can't recruit them or propagandize them, they must be antagonized and traumatized repeatedly until they truly realize their current mindset is unworkable.

Are you concern trolling? No one is saying to exclude college liberals entirely but brought up reasons why we shouldn't go out of our way to recruit them because of the lower chances of success due to PURE ideology or it being completely against their own interest.

Personally, I had much better sucess opening peoples minds towards socialism with normal working people and even in some cases self proclaimed conservatives to a lesser degree.

I'm certainly not trolling. Honestly, I'm just spooked by the thought Holla Forums's backwards ideals gaining traction and then murdering all nonwhite and non heterosexual people and forcing women perpetually into the kitchen.

Yes, I'm fuckin SPOOKED.

You're really not very good at samefagging, you know.