Anti-National

"I am not saying that we must refrain from criticizing Israel or its leaders—indeed, criticism of Israeli policies and actions is often warranted. Nor should we presuppose that all criticism of Israel is anti-Zionist or based on anti-Semitic prejudice. As with any country, we should subject Israel’s politicians and officials to close scrutiny and critique. Often its political leadership makes mistakes that have terrible consequences. Does the Israeli Defense Force commit war crimes? Yes, sometimes, and the IDF should be held responsible for them. But to work from the premise that Israel itself is illegitimate, and that the very existence of its powerful army is a war crime, passes from normal criticism to the realm of prejudice.

Similarly, we may legitimately scrutinize and criticize Palestinian governance and oppositional movements—something the Left today too often fails to do. In my view, it is not the responsibility of leftists to support either Zionism or Palestinian nationalism; nationalism is, as Oscar Wilde put it, “the virtue of the vicious.” But what makes no sense is to seek to eradicate only one form of nationalism, namely the Israeli. Those who seek alternatives that are cosmopolitan and internationalist—indeed antinationalist—have no alternative but to expose and oppose both Zionism and anti-Zionism, as well as all oppression and discrimination along religious, cultural, and ethnic lines. But to presume that primarily Jewish nationalism and Israel must disappear to achieve a free society is dangerously wrong." - Eirik Eiglad

new-compass.net/articles/anti-semitism-israel-and-left

Other urls found in this thread:

new-compass.net/articles/interview-author-against-nation
bunkermag.org/a-defense-why-we-are-pro-israel/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

To be honest, I have no idea how Zionism is any worse than any other form of nationalism, including left-wing and "anti-imperialist" ones.

Every single criticism you can make of Zionism you can also make of Juche, Ba'athism, Viet Cong, Ceasescu's Romania, Gaddafi's Libya, and even most black nationalists and indigenists.

...

Israel's creation itself was a colonial project and a war-crime. That's why so much of the Left questions its legitimacy altogether. Although it's a fair point to say that practically all modern states came into existence the same way.

In actual discourse though, I don't think anybody actually says "get rid of Israel." People aren't critical of Palestinian violence because it's *legal* defense under international law after being attacked. If Israel was to stop being violent tomorrow, and for whatever reason Palestinian forces continued to launch rockets, then fine, criticize that, but historically the opposite has happened. Israel has violated the cease-fire agreements, Israel initially attack Palestinians, and then it somehow pretends it's the victim of violence from irrational "sub-human Arabs."

Israel needs to stop starting conflict if it wants people to take its claims that it's being violently counter-attacked seriously. That's an expected response from anybody else in any other conflict.

Lol so what if you're not a Leninist?

Israel is only imperialist towards the Palestinians and its neighbors. Every other imperialist thing it's done, i.e. sell weapons to death squads in Latin America, support apartheid SA and Rhodesia, was primarily done in accordance with US demands. Not to mention the idea that a one-state of Palestine will be the reality anytime soon seems highly doubtful.

Anti-Deutsche are nazis, they think fascism is the logical endpoint of the german nation, they support current german imperial policy, and they want a europe without any jews, they're fucking scum

That's a very strange misconception of the anti-German movement (actually called the anti-national movement). The anti-national tendency is a broad antifa tendency characterised by its rejection of nationalism (i.e. national chauvinism or national antagonism), and its rejection of nationalism's foundation, "the nation" and the nation-state as such.

The anti-national tendency has its roots in the struggles against resurgent nationalism during "German reunification." The first campaign that gave birth to the anti-national tendency was this mobilisation against "German reunification" in 1989/1990, under the slogan "Never Again Germany!" (Nie Wieder Deutschland!)

The core aspect of the anti-national critique, is that it does not seek to "solve" the problem of nationalism through pluralism. It does not advance concepts such as multiculturalism, a multiethnic Germany, or a pan-European or post-national identity. It does not try to expand the category of the nation to be more inclusive. Instead it seeks to overthrow it completely or to break it open. The project does not flee into an "abstract" universalism, but directly counters the concrete forms of nationalism existent in their social context. It does not affirm pluralism as a political strategy, but harnesses the "power of negativity" to overthrow the concrete social forms of capitalist society and nation-states. - Robert Ogman's "Aganst the Nation"

new-compass.net/articles/interview-author-against-nation

antideutsch are fucking cancer

t. racial nationalist


Actually, this is quite a progressive notion.

It's not, if anything it is better since it is the only form of nationalism with an objective reason for its existence, that is the threat the Jewish people face in the world. The Left just hates Israel because of US influence.

The left hates Israel because of anti-semitism tbh.

"Why do leftists demand exactly the same thing as outright Nazis, that Palestine belongs to the blood that died on it, to the Palestinians. Why do leftists hallucinate an all-powerful Jewish lobby that is the only reason Israel exists, and not the holocaust and the conclusions Jews and many others have taken from it. Why do leftists hallucinate Israel as the colonial outpost of the USA, while not concerning themselves with the reasons for why Israel has legitimacy for its inhabitants. Why do leftists hallucinate a genocide in Palestine after 2000 civilians died in the Gaza War and declare Israel a genocidal, racist state when Jordan (US-ally) itself killed 10k Palestinians, more than Israel ever did, and no one wanted to boycott them? Why do leftists equate Israel with the phenomenon that caused it to exist, fascism? Why is Israel an apartheid state with its 20% Arab citizens, when Arab deputies in the knesset, Arab army generals and Saudi-Arabia that exclude Shi’a Muslims from public life and try to deny their existence are not? When did anyone call the Syrian Arab Republic an apartheid state, even though millions of its Kurdish inhabitants were denied citizenship, denied access to property, denied their own language – let alone access to higher learning? Why is an ethnocentric nation for Jews fascist, even though there are good reasons for its ethnocentricy, but an ethnocentric nation for Poles, Hungarians, Slovaks, Czechs, Romanians, Bulgarians, Italians, Portugese, Finns, Croatians, Serbians, Greeks, Turks, Japanese, Koreans is not fascist?

Why do people think that Israel’s nuclear weapons are as much as a threat to world peace as Iran’s, even though Israel doesn’t threaten other nations with nukes, indeed, it didn’t even use them when its existence was threatened in 1973, while Iran threatens Israel and its existence daily and openly plans to destroy it? How is it possible that these two are put on the same level? Why is it not clear to people who the real aggressor is?

Because antisemitism.

All nationalism – including Zionism – has to be overcome. But the reason Zionism came into existence in the first place, the only reason Israel exists is because Jews from the 19th century on were massively threatened by European nationalism. Israel is at the same time a nationalist as well as anti-nationalist state. Jewish nationalism, Zionism is nothing more than self-defense. The existence of Israel is self-defense against nationalism that has targeted Jews for centuries, nationalism which continuously provides and generates the antisemitism which I have explained at great lengths." - bunkermag.org/a-defense-why-we-are-pro-israel/

mfw I actually agree with this.

The left understands how islamophobia creates "Islamic terrorists" like ISIS and whatnot - why can't they also see how antisemitism and overall disgust and distrust of Jews creates Zionists?

Anti-semitism is actually present in all political camps I'd say, sadly.

I know, all forms of nationalism is shit.

Despite the vomit inducing flag, it's hard to disagree with any of that. Nationalism has a proven track record of being pure cancer whether imperialist or not. Knee jerk anti Zionism / pro Palestinian nationalism is like a dogmatic religion for most of the left today. It's treated like a litmus test for whoever is most "radical". Pic very related.

Anti imperialism and the bullshit idea of the "right to self determination" was the most reactionary thing to come out of Leninism.

Anti Germans are based af for how skillfully they trigger Maoists and trots.

kys Hillary

You're pointing out a double standard where none exists. In the Western world, to express open disdain for the Islamic world is not only acceptable, but considered separable from disdain for Muslims as people–but to do the same for the state of Israel is antisemitism, period.

In fact, most defense of Israel could be accurately boiled down to "two wrongs make a right". Any and all criticism of the abhorrent bullshit that the nation does is deflected by pointing out some other atrocity in the Middle East on the basis that Israel is the West's "only ally" in the Middle East when in reality, no nationalistic government has ever given a shit about anything but its own existence, at the expense of all other political ideas.

"Anti-semitism" refers explicitly to hatred of Jews, and was coined by some german dickhead to make hatred of Jews sound more scientific. It doesn't factor in other semitic people, only Jews.

Gass the kikes.

Israel is literally a white supremacist state. There's a reason why neo-nazis love it so much.

This fellow whites. As a white Israeli I can confirm that Israel is an evil nation where the white leaders of the country oppress the minorities. White men like Netanyahu are despicable. Look at how whites like George Soros, Rothschilds, Bildergberg, have destroyed the world and oppressed people.

Kill all whites

absolutely disgusting, you cant be a leftist and not hate zionism. its like if a leftist who happened to be born a muslim thinks "isis isnt so bad". its a fucking paradox.


fuck apartheid and fuck zionist fascist imperialist subhumans

hamas are certainly not comrades but we obviously must support their resistance against israel, just like how we supported the vietcongs resistance against imperialism as well

t. 16-18y old on the internet

Bumping with Bookchin on Israel.

Damn fam, where did you find this? I knew Murray had bitched about the vulgar anti-zionism of the tankie left, but never managed to track it down.

What's something good about Israel?

What's something good about Israel to an American not entitled to a second citizenship and a free plane ticket?