On Paid Mods: The Bethesda End-Game

Don't fucking kid yourself, mate.

i don't think "wanting to kill myself" counts

There will probably be a decent historical one and then tons of boring bad autistic shit

And they'll die when people start modding Bannerlord and other medieval games instead. This might actually be a good thing because bethesda could siphon up all of the autistic sexlab modders

It does, actually. You just happen to have something you're willing to die for. Really, it's more like terrorism than anything, which is kind of why all these interests groups like the alt-right and and sjws have been trying to outdo the other in terms of policing creative content. The only difference is unlike terrorism you don't have a bunch of other like-minded individuals to circlejerk over your common and shared ideals. All you only have is yourself, your skill and dedication, the unrelenting fear and anxiety that everything you've worked for will fail miserably and be for nothing, and a lofty sense of hope that things will work out in the end.

I'm not convinced. They were very reticent to release modding tools for Fallout 4. I think they're just going to come along for Gaben's next inevitable attempt at pushing paid mods. I hope Gaben dies soon so that never happens.
But I do remember some user saying that Zenimax might try to acquire zbrush. If that's true, all is lost.

This is probably because they didn't want anyone to know that they were gonna require them to use their stupid proprietary client to access the CK.

I doubt it. While casuals will of course eat it up at first, ultimately I think heavily splintering a series that has become known for its modding community with tons of DLC will either: kill or severely weaken said community due to modders requiring specific features/elements from addons for the mods to work, or, force modders to place their focus on modding just the base game in order to ensure compatibility, which will end up rendering most of the addons unnecessary. Basically, they either risk invalidating their attempt to monetize or potentially destroying the modding community that makes their games actually somewhat worthwhile. If anything, I'd be more worried about them tacking on an online component to ES (ESO doesn't count) or FO and milking the fuck out of that, or just making modders pay to access the Creation Kit. The latter option will almost definitely result in paid mods, but those will likely just get pirated anyway.

The industry is pretty much already fucked if it keeps up the heading that it's on, in the end they'll really only end up hurting themselves.

Also

Doesn't seem too off for a series like this, so far.

They are developing space game called Starfield. TESVI will be dogshit even worse than skyrim, just like skyrim was worse than oblivion and oblivion worse than morrowind. Because now there's new fucking space game in between, to compete with Star Citizen and No Man's Sky (both already flopped), that they wasted their resources on.

Its also rumored to be the reason why they cancelled Prey 2, so Prey won't compete with bethesda's own product.

the fuck are you on about user

m8 I know nostalgia is a bitch, but as shit as Skyrim is, Oblivion is just irredeemably shit. Chess is a better RPG than Oblivion, and Gone Home has better gameplay. It has a couple of nice quests, but that's not enough to justify it. Even Shivering Isles isn't enough to justify it, as superior as that was to the base game.

It'd be funny if Bethesda ends up pulling success out of their ass again and makes a space game that's not shit, in a magical fit of reverse competence.

We had this argument, Oblivion was worse overall.

In the case with the mod tools for skyrim, they did just that. They reduced the functionality of the tools as a way of curtailing the overall capability of modders. It famously held back modders and their ambitions. In the time it took when Oblivion was the latest TES game, 6 years later it had amazing mods that would define the modding scene. What does Skyrim have? Nothing except the usual expected texture replacements and things to make look and run nicer but barely much else.

In all likelihood that's what Bethesda will do again and call it feature-complete.

It took you this long to figure that out?

Forgot other pics.

why are you shilling that old propaganda?>>12124649
how much would you pay for a mod user?

Yeah, Bethesda has kept to a pretty consistent schedule since the release of Morrowind. The next Elder Scrolls game should be out in 2018, given their pattern (3 years for a new game on the same platform, 4 years for a new game on a new platform).
Bethesda Game Studios have said that they're working on two "big" new projects that aren't Elder Scrolls or Fallout (one of them presumably being this "Starfield" thing). But given how conservative BGS is, I find it hard to believe that they're going to push back the next Elder Scrolls. Maybe these projects are being handled by the new studio that Zenimax set up in Montreal, which goes by "Bethesda Game Studios Montreal"; they did that Elder Scrolls card game.

Oblivion was at least an RPG; Skyrim wasn't. Therefore Oblivion is better than Skyrim. Though Skyrim had better lore.

Kill yourself. Not everything should be a commodity.

Should i just tell you how Holla Forums is 5 years behind the rest of the internet or just simply call you a faggot?

What is the argument that makes Skyrim better than oblivion? The Skyrim setting is slightly more original, but both have shit combatand oblivion clearly wins out on rpg elements and the story/quests. Oblivion also has better porn mods tbh

I'd be sad to hear that, as while Skyrim is shit, it's one of the only really free RPGs I've found. That series, anyway.
Without them, who'll make such games? No idea why, but a "TES killer" has never even been attempted that I can tell.

Most of this is explained as money has no major purpose after a certain point. If you pay me enough where I don't have to worry about money, further increases in the money you pay me aren't going to matter to me as much.
At that point, interest becomes the highest motivator, as you've got enough cash not to think about things, so that's all that it left to care about for the work.
Nothing 'socialist' about that.

No. If that were true, business owners wouldn't fight tooth and nail for every cent of profit they could get their hands on. The difference is that (generally) shareholders and business owners do very little actual work; employees (generally) do. So it's purpose and motive and self-actualization eclipsing the need to make a living (since that's already been met) in people who are doing actual work. That's where the difference lies; the only motive that can exist for people who own businesses but don't do actual work is the profit motive.

...

Owners and other such business heads are different. You'll notice, most the time, their money goes back in to the things they're doing. I'd make the case that, for them, it's more the expansion.
Incidentally, I didn't mean a mere "living". I'm talking enough to spend it fairly frivolously [especially for normalfags with no hobbies, as is sadly most the world] without concern or feeling the need to check up on your account.

I was talking about the money they actually take home, not the money that gets reinvested–reinvestment is just deferring smaller current profits for greater future profits.
I don't think that invalidates my point; business owners (assuming they're not involved in the actual production of goods and services) and employees have different motives once their basic needs are met. Sure, you can always enjoy having more money to spend on the latest retarded gadget or whatever, but for an owner, that's the only motive, while an employee can have both that motive and the motive to create something they're proud of and that they really feel like they've put their work into–and that's a much more powerful factor (for most people) than being able to buy the latest iPhone or whatever.

>for funny money on their store
Get the fuck out shill, I don't want funny money from Todd "It Just Werks" Howard and Zenijew. I want my own money.

...

Actually, Starfield could be another fucking Elder Scrolls game.

Oekaki related. Oblivion having more RPG elements and less action elements inherently makes the gameplay worse. If it continued to gain more RPG and less action elements, it would eventually become better again. But it's at the dirty halfway point. Oblivion is the happa of gaming and it will shoot up your school.

Todd said that the projects are overlapping. Back then, they developed the Terminator games along with Elder Scrolls and it's spin offs.

I know, but their modern development structure and pipeline has been essentially identical since 1999, when development on Morrowind started. BGS (by which I mean the real one, in Maryland, not the new team in Montreal) also doesn't have more than one game in the production phase at once. "Overlapping" could just mean that they're doing pre-production or post-launch DLC at the same time as production, which is something they already do. Their limit of one game in production is also why they keep their team relatively static in size (at a little over 100 people)–or maybe it's the other way around, where their static size forces them to have no more than one game in the production phase.

You want to hear a horror story?

As inept as the Bethesda team is, consider the fact that other game studios which are hiring people are bringing in swarms of left-wing devs. Look at A-Net as an example of that shit. In about ten years time, the Bethesda dev team could have the most talented people in the industry. And that's scary.

(((YOU)))
You are being quite presumptuous you dumb nigger, no need for a false dichotomy. You literally where posting bullshit propaganda that was promoted by the Obama administration.
maybe you should fuck off back to reddit.

1. Calling it propaganda doesn't make it so.
2. I didn't post it. Learn to read IDs, newfag, etc.
Fucking where? They're trash, and always were.
Drink bleach and never post again.

They have 50 or 60 people who have been around since Oblivion. On the one hand, they can avoid the endless swarm of new graduates with pink hair and no talent. But on the other hand, their technical incompetence will probably grow over time without new blood.

Yeah, I guess you're right, that's exactly what happened in FO3's development.

Aren't they already? As much as you hate the writing and quests, look at how rich and detailed the design of FO4's world compared to 99% of open world games out there. The 1% includes your usual gargantuan budget games such as GTAV.

jej

This is not what the other user asked you. He wanted to know why Skyrim is better than Oblivion, not why Oblivion is bad, don't dodge the question.

Oblivion has a fuck load of content cut away coming from Morrowind and the setting was incredibly generic compared to the lore, not to mention how the gameplay was so oversimplified to the point that most mechanics practically do nothing (Strength 0 and Strength 100 just doubles your damage).
However, it was at least still trying. At least it had a bit of RPG in it and fights could still be about managing stamina for fighters or casting clever spells for wizards.

Skyrim is an atrocious game as an RPG, even worse than Oblivion ever was, and it's also an atrocious "action-RPG", even more than Oblivion was, which is pretty amazing in itself.
Skyrim made Stamina into a "supercharge meter" to be spent on powerattacks that was irrelevant since you could spend a single point and get the full benefit.
It gave you regenerating health DURING COMBAT.
It gave you Dragon Shouting that barely did anything usefull most of the time with massive cooldowns.
It made it so Heavy Armor was redundant for most people since properly reinforced Light Armor already afforded you best protection, unless you got a single perk in it's tree that made Heavy Armor weight NOTHING.

The only aspect that Skyrim holds over Oblivion is graphics and that's it. If that's enough to consider Skyrim better than Oblivion, then how the fuck would you even rate Morrowind above it.

The real end game is that PC users pile 100+ mods into their games, and they want to make money off that. They already released barely-finished games that almost require mods to feel complete(I feel sorry for console gamers who can't use mods), let alone other mods to fix bugs they refuse to fix(they are aware Oblivion suffers abomb corruption of save files- they openly don't give a shit and never saw a need to fix it themselves, OH and the damn UOP series)

They could pull a Minecraft and say "any mod you make is our property" and include that content direct but they don't constantly update & patch one game so that won't quite work.

LORE- Cyrodiil is a beautiful land with nice trees, river dragons and all that

ACTUAL game- it's basically 18th century America with a bland wilderness and colonial towns. Take away the magic and replace swords with muskets and this could actually be early America.

Wasn't there already some "BethesdaNet" platform similar to Uplay but for Bethesda games, where they intended to release mods in a "SteamWorkshop" way?
I recall some mod fiasco with people stealing mods from Fallout 4 just to re-publish them for consoles (and failing because they don't have all the libraries necessary to make them work).

Bravil stands a bit against that, but it's pretty much a generic fantasy world. It was modeled based around what was pop culture refence at the time (forgot if it was LotR or something else), much like Skyrim is moddled after Game of Thrones.

It's pretty neat to get mods that make the place an actual jungle, but it's never gonna be the Tropical Draconic Roman Empire it was meant to be.

I know there's been some legality discussions on the Nexus Mods site about whether or not individual could or should charge money for their mods. The general idea was "no" in that it's both a bit immoral and possibly not legal.

This is just Bethesda wanting a cut, like Nintendo wanting ad revenue off gameplay videos. They want to make money off things they didn't even do, because they "own" the base game.

I'd say this cost Bethesda any respect I had for them, but between Doom 4 being unworthy of the Doom name, and their paying Rooster Teeth big bucks to insult Jeff Gerstmann, I didn't have any left for them.

At the same time, the story and writing in Bethesda games will continue to be the same quality across the board, they'll continue to retcon huge amounts of lore in both their own series and Fallout, and so on. But, coinciding with this they won't be pandering to political agendas like every other larger studio that has developed RPGs recently. The gameplay will simplify and adopt more features from FPS and Action games, the writing quality will stagnate, but you won't see Josh Sawyer in the credits of TES 6 or Fallout 5.

I actually think that Skyrim does grey morality very well. I haven't, nor do I want to play Fallout 4, but if their writers incorporated some of the elements from Skyrim's faction warfare into it, then it would be better than New Vegas with its black and grey morality where the Legion was intended to be nothing but ebul slavers.

Its propaganda. I am not some newfag that doesn't know what ID's are. You do honestly expect someone to play attention every time someone post? Note the time stamps. You are defended the faggot who posted it and defending Bethesda. (you) paid mod shills are not welcomed here kido. Maybe you should try your shenanigans somewhere else.
>>>/reddit/

Do it faggot.

BGS ain't that bad, it's Zenimax who's at the fault and has always been, ever since the gentile Weaver got replaced by the Jew Robert Altman.

The backbones of Doom 4 wasn't that bad either. The graphics are great, the gunplay is fun, the enemy design is great. It's just the game is far too modernized to pander to modern consumers, being a Painkiller spiritual successor with lots of useless side content instead of just following the design of Doom. It's Doom 3 all over again, only for the Halo audience instead of the Half Life audience.

I think lore and politics don't make a good writing tbh. I'd rather have something that's more of a personal journey, player character's personal relationship with other people. There's a reason why Fallout 2 is less boring than Fallout 1. Emil Papagallo needs to be fired either way.

Let it all burn.

C0DA is shit, it will never be acknowledged by Bethesda.

So basically Mario Maker, but on a larger and shittier scale? This is going to go SO great.

the mods are shit anyway, if you pay for that garbage, you deserve to get robbed.
where were you when you realized Todd is the hero of this story?
Skyrim is a great game btw

Bethesda isnt capable of making a functional game at launch, who the fuck would pay $80 for an unfinished Bethesda game when theyve never finished the ones they said were finished?

people do better on their weekends than dev teams swimming in cash

Why can't they just subcontract a modder's mod for DLC, troubleshoot for any bugs, and then just fucking release it as official DLC, after paying the modder their contract fee?

The upside is official support and theoretically better troubleshooting for bugs.

Again, where? I said Oblivion was more of an RPG than Skyrim, which is objectively true. Bethesda are shit; I would never defend them. Saying something repeatedly won't make it true. As for that video, it was a TED Talk, which is far from propaganda, though much of it is either navel-gazing or pseudoscientific–though I don't think that particular video was either.
Please do actually kill yourself.

If the GTA pics aren't with the same texture resolution and the same or less polygon count, you know that's bullshit. Hardware limitations, yo.

PCs at the time could have handled it, yo. Looks like HL1 with the HD texture pack, and it was released on PC in 2002.

Because mods do not have AAA quality to them and it would be more trouble than it's worth to get them to that level, fuckwit. it's easier for an AAA studio to steal mod ideas like Bethesda does.

Radio towers, on-disc DLC, and stronk trannies?

Non-shit voice acting, models and textures on par with each other (either because they're shit or far surpass that of everything else in the base game, making them look out of place as fuck), general cohesion in design.

Oh user I wish I was as blissful as you.

why can't they just allow shitty patreons for modders instead?

they exhaust the coding team, meanwhile the art team is disorganized and doesn't know what the fuck they are doing, they are rushed to make models and later redo them because of optimization for consoles, etc.

its a fucking shitshow, modders are pretty free to do whatever because there is no fucks given or preference for people installing them, its a smaller audience base so they can just make massive texture packs and good looking models and not everyone will be able to have a smooth framerate rendering all that shit in, devs need to comply and cuck their games so everyone can run it, meaning more profit for fags and less negative reviews.

You mean C0DA is good, it will never be acknowledged by Bethesda/Zenimax Media Inc.

I'm pretty sure Todd cares about C0DA, he wrote the TES lore along with Kirkbride during the development of TES Adventures Redguard and Morrowind. He did most of the Imperial related stuff if I can recall.

Thats a pretty interesting webm, but its made from a perspective of a 1st worlder for 1 st worlders who have lots of disposable income
This isnt the case in poorer countries where people stuggle to live

Proofs?

Honestly, I would take generic setting, if it was done properly, that is. Having functional castles, arms and armour would be great

Did you not watch it? They ran the same experiment in impoverished third world nations and found that monetary incentive leads to bad work, and that the better the incentive, the worse the performance is.

It's not a one size fits all thing, mind you, some people do really well with monetary compensation as the goal for everything. But those are the exception rather than the rule.

why are you defending THIS SHIT?

please stop, its like reddit is leaking in mass.

They're gonna make a monthly paid mod creation subscription service so mod creators have a reason to charge for mods which also gives bethesda a percentage, the ultimate jew tactic.

Skyrim being less shit than Oblivion does not mean Skyrim isn't shit. Oblivion just happens to be the most shit of them all.

I don't think my wound from Gaben's stab in the back will ever fully heal.

They ran the experience in India and some african country, your point is invalid.
The logic is easy to understand: people that focus on the money, do the bare minimum (or something that looks like bare minimum) to get said reward, while people who care more about the action itself, who have passion, will always make a superior product regardless of how much money they are given.
This only fails for manual laborer because that's the only instance where quantity trumps quality.

Think of it this way: you go to a classroom and ask for kids to play a role in a theater play. Only those that want to be actors will accept and volunteer, but if you say there's money involved, a lot of them are going to volunteer as well, regardless of how much they like acting. And since money can't actually buy talent, you'll have a lot of bad actors being paid top dollar because they still show up every rehearsal and insist in doing the main roles (because they pay more).

Stop dodging the fucking question, what does Skyrim have that makes it better than Oblivion in your eyes?

Oblivion being less shit than Skyrim does not mean Oblivion isn't shit either, what was even the point in saying that?
Oblivion at least still tries to be an RPG and has some creativity put into it. Skyrim doesn't even bother to pretend it's an RPG, it's an horrible action game as well and has so little creativity in it's design the real adventure is finding out where the few good parts of it are.

That ain't even a propper graph

You realize that at the end of the day they're both irredeemable shit not worth defending nor playing, right?

wisdom
The best thing about skyrim was the lusty argonian maid tbh famarito.
and in more seriousness, skyrim was one of the most boring pieces of shit i've played, maybe not the worst thing ever, but there's nothing there. Weak story, weak world that can't be changed much, weak enemies that can only provide a "challenge" by regenning health quickly and being spongier than usual, and every aspect of core gameplay is W E A K.
Oblivion? All that and no beards too.

Look, there is no denying every Elder Scrolls game is shit, we're just arguing which one is the shittier shit.

The Lusty Argonian Maid has been around since Morrowind.

Incorrect. Oblivion is "wasted potential and removed content: the game" coming from Morrowind (although the bitching about always hitting is stupid) but it has it's high points and neat details.
Magic is still fun to use, the Dark Brotherhood has really neat quests and some side quests are quite original too, the main story doesn't make you the Chosen One and a small part of it (where you are playing detective) is genuinely fun.
Also, Shivering Isles.

It's a broken, blandless game with some notable content and with some modding effort a somewhat decent dungeon crawler.

Now Skyrim is "We're not even trying anymore: the game". The skills and leveling are terribly simplified and butchered, the quests are all about your massive hate boner for draugr and the only original thing it has is the ability to shout really, really hard.
The game doesn't even do dragons properly.

Worst of all, it's an autistic piece of shit where your character feels non existant and the world completely autistic, as if you weren't even there while pretending at the same time that you're the one everything is centered on. You'll often be placed in the limelight because only you can save the day, only to find out little changes in the world as if you didn't really existed, it's a very jarring experience.

The combat and the magic manages to be worse than Oblivion, which is a feat in itself. I'd honestly would like to blame all the faggots complaining about "needing excel sheets to level up properly in Oblivion" as the responsibles for the butching that the stats became, but it was just Bethesda's trend as can be seen from the changes that stats\skills had coming from Morrowind to Oblivion.

Every game is always worse than the previous one because while they improve in graphics and size, they are shortened in depth and gameplay. It''s not about which one is better, it's about where you set your own breaking point, after which you can't tolerate it anymore and I find that Oblivion is the point where RPG mechanics are at the minimum acceptable level to have some depth and the graphics are already decent enough. Going further than that makes as much sense as playing a version of Crysis where you only get a pistol for combat but really fucking amazing skyboxes!

There was a second book in Skyrim that used bread loads and ovens as the metaphor instead.
elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Lusty_Argonian_Maid_Vol_2

Fuck off with your "potential" meme. All shit games are potentially "wasted potential" you just have to completely rewrite them.

Nope, it's wasted potential because there was Daggerfall and Morrowind that came before it and those featured good elements missing from Oblivion.
That's why it's "wasted potential", because it could have had those elements but it didn't.

The fast travel, languages, guilds and temples from Daggerfall and the stats, throwing weapons, skills mattering for far more details (like armor and weapon skill helping with stamina management) and the way quests were done with directions instead of a quest arrow, all that could have been in Oblivion but it was removed.

Oh, I didn't know that. Thanks for the info.

That's a very good way of putting it. I couldn't play Fallout 4 for more than a few hours because it was well past my breaking point. I keep holding out a naive hope that Bethesda will learn from Fallout 4 and put more RPG elements back into the next Elder Scrolls game. But I know that they won't.

That's funny considering the series started as poor man's Wizardry and M&M and nothing in TES hasn't been done before and better.

That's a good point, all games have a hypothetical "missing/wasted content" like some platonic ideal concept of the game, but even broken games like vtmb had superior actual content over bethesda-shit, to the point that people were then willing to make it actually work more smoothly.

All Bethesda games are wasted potential more or less. We're never going to get a good open world game that has care put into it, that has a wide variety of locations, quests, dungeons, and general thought. Open world games are too ambitious to be pulled off well by anyone, there's just too much you'd need to make a truly good open world game, there's no possible way to put all that shit into one game, have it work together smoothly, and retain a profit in the green. No one has ever done it, and no one will ever do it. There is not a single good open world game, not one.

Morrowind
New Vegas
Dragon's Dogma, if you believe the memes
Soulsborne, sort of
Bear in mind, I'm just taking "open world" to mean that you can go (generally) anywhere at (generally) any time. If you're talking about accurately simulating a very large game area, then no, that's probably not possible given practical limits on time and money–and it probably wouldn't make for a particularly good game, anyway.

Well meme'd

...

It takes a bioware SPECIAL person to see
and think

It is, though. Morrowind has a lot of variety, even if you don't count Solstheim. Also,
Confirmed for casual fast-travel faggot.

Let's stop doing this, please. You can only "go anywhere" from the get go if you get a Stealth Boy or think that buggy physics are "mountain climbing" but otherwise the game is clearly designed to make you travel a U around the world to see all the important players and factions before you make it to New Vegas, making the same journey that faggot did and finding what he leaves behind.
A lot of New Vegas is also quite a desert to the point that, despite having more locations to visit then 3, it looks and feels more empty when actually walking around.

Not saying it's a bad game, on the contrary. But it's not a good "open world" game since it's also fairly linear in your progression.

Only way to make decent open world games is to make them very, very sandbox as well.

It isn't though. As a video game it's shit.

Standard-fare Bethesda games. Bethesda here not referring to the developer, but rather the style and execution, New Vegas while developed by Obsidian, still retains all the qualities of a Bethesda game. At best, New Vegas is a good Bethesda game, which is mediocre compared to non-Bethesda games in the same genre, that genre being role playing first person shooter.
Haven't played.
That's not open world, but a series of interconnected levels if that makes sense. From what I played of Dark Souls 1, the level transitions weren't entirely seamless. While you can theoretically go from place to place, the places play less like locations as they do levels in a traditional video game.

While that's true, there's a notable detail about New Vegas that does put it a few steps higher than just "a Bethesda game".
Instead of removing gameplay elements from 3 and simplifying the game further, it actually placed some depth into them and made both stats and skills matter far more as well as making factions something you can join or disguise as instead of simple narrative devices to tell it's story.

And then we got Fallout 4 that removed pretty much all the elements that were both in 3 and New Vegas following the trend that both Skyrim and Oblivion followed.
I wonder what a TES game developed by Obsidian would look like…

They've flushed money down the toilet to keep gamebryo in a useable state. The creation engine was cobbled together with Havok, and its an enormous pile of dogshit because you aren't able to add custom behavior to the game. The most you can do in FO or ES is add more armors/clothes/weapons, all of which are built on existing items, you are basically reskinning old items and editing their stats, in the way of quests you are allowed to create dialogue and if you have the patience to do the voice acting yourself, have volunteers or pay someone, at the end all you are doing is creating more fetch quests, go to this place, kill this thing, possibly maybe bring me back an item if killing x thing is not your primary objective. The learning curve for UE4 isn't as bad as for CE, but there are no 3rd person, open world games with an actual story using UE4, other than the 9000 sandboxes every franchise is creating around some premade survival mode or something. If Bethesda provided the project files for their Havok implementation they would essentially be giving away the source code of the game, you could go in and add things that aren't purely cosmetic, and that don't have to be derived from existing assets, which would be great, although they never released such things because they knew that if the project files were released for Skyrim then they would never sell DLC again. They hold off on releasing the editors because the modding community makes having the DLC almost optional, unless the DLC is adding something to the Havok behavior that wasn't in the base game. I would rather have an Unreal clone of an ES/FO like game with its own editor than wait for the CE to do this because CE as it is in the current implementations make almost everything proprietary, Bethesda won't share their internal documentation for it, and the documentation on creationkit.com is largely maintained by modders, Bethesda can't even be bothered to do that anymore; their scripting language is horrendous and they make it harder and harder to use custom animations. With FO4 they did release some internal tools for 3ds Max, but even those were out of date and probably used for FO3/NV, they left out parts of the exporter that would have allowed for attaching custom behavior to the models themselves, and destruction. Fallout doesn't have any destruction in it, but every other Havok game supports it (you damage something and it breaks, environment models, clothes/armor/weapons, dynamic dismemberment).

They would be better off building an addon for Unity or UE that works as a template project for RPG games. Creation kit is going nowhere.

I don't know why i'm bothered to read your cobbled up crap. But i did and it was crap written by someone who knows a little timmy bit on game "engines" and shout the loudest form of noise in the yard.

Just stop playing games.

Here you go autismo:

Dragon shouts are useless, spells scale badly, and most of the artifacts turn crap real fast. Doesn't stop Skyrim from at least applying a few cool gimmicks. But the developers at least tried to do things that were different. The Bloodskaal Blade and Spell Breaker at least add a new degree of functionality to what they do, spells such as Wall of Fire and the Runes behave differently than their counterparts, quests for Master Spells at least give something cool as a result (contrast with the pitiful result for Finger of the Mountain in Oblivion), and effects such as time stop and storm call at least apply new mechanics, even if they're not particularly useful.

In contrast, Oblivion has a watered down variant of Morrowind with even less hit. It does have a few cool effects like Dawnfang/Duskfang, which you can bet your ass I used when Shivering Isles was first released for gimmick value alone, but that's about it.

Oblivion Gates are literally radiant quests in plot device form. They have somehow less enemy variety for Daedra than Morrowind, and it's a game about literally going into Oblivion. Dragons are either a threat (stronger) or a nuisance (weaker), but they're quick either way, and not a chore.

Bandits in Daedric Armor. Guards of [Level+10]. Beating away on Goblin Warlords with more HP than the Legendary Dragons in Skyrim. I just do love the fucking combat and item placement in Oblivion. It might not be Morrowind, and random enchanted Daedric items in loot will never not be stupid and lore-breaking, but Oblivion did all of this so badly that Skyrim is objectively better by default.

Even going by the standards of its time, Oblivion was shit. It looks shit now, and no amount of graphics mods can make it stop looking like walking potatoes. Oblivion looks worse than fucking Redguard does. Skyrim is at least somewhat pretty to look at.

To address this:
Guess what fucker - a game being an RPG doesn't make it better. None of the TES games are true RPGs to begin with. Oblivion drops almost all of the RPG elements and shoves them onto a shitty combat system. Skyrim uses a slightly smoother combat system, and drops those elements - and it's better that it does. RPG elements do not adapt well to the action style of gameplay. It gets you bloated HP numbers and creatures that you magically can't damage because your PhysAtk is too low to hurt its PhysDef or whatever. Hybrid vigor does not exist in video games.

I don't want the series to keep getting casualized. I want it to go back to being like what the older games were. But if you ask me what is worse, the shitty RPG or the shitty action game, I'll tell you the shitty action game.

I would pay 30 bucks to Millenia if he did an overhaul for the weapon mod system so that it was in depth as the following program.

ar15.com/gunstruction/

A shitty spell that barely does anything unless you cheese it because the AI is too stupid to avoid it or not run along it.
Shitty spells that barely do anything in a combat system where you have to spam spells left and right and almost never have time to prepare an ambush. They end up acting more often as AoE spells than the actual traps they are supposed to be.

Hey moron! Hey fucking moron! Oblivion had special quests for every single skill in the game to unlock a Master Trainer for it. You couldn't even start them unless you were high level in the required skill and each one was custom tailored to it as well.
Congratulations, you got 5 quests to unlock "there goes all my mana" spells in a system that emphazises spamming.

Oh yeah, don't they look dazzling, those new special effects? It's all very very pretty! It's a better game for sure.
Nevermind that "bullet time" ain't novelty at all and that you had the reverse in Oblivion with Speed (which is better).
Nevermind that Stormcall just changed the weather, something that happens in either game, and had equal odds to hit your companions.

And in contrast, Skyrim threw away all spellmaking, watered down enchanting while bringing the skill back, made every weapon skill even worse by both making it bland and at the same time pidgeonholding you to a specific weapon with perks, and completely threw away the stats as well!

And yet far more chalenging and interesting than the random dragon attacks. They were oportunities to gather weird flora to sell\make potions, meet some unique enemies that you rarely find in the rest of the game and gave you a proper reward in the form of a Sigil Stone.
Skyrim by the way has even less Daedra variety. It's Dremora's and that's it, no Scamps, Daedroth, Xivilai or Spider Daedra.

Contrasted with Bandits in Leather\Iron armor that have 800HP. Seriously, open the game next time with a high level character, find the nearest bandit chief and use the console to check on his life.
Congratulations, you fell for the old trick of "halve his armor, but double his life". A simple cosmetic change to his look was enough to fool you.

The only thing Skyrim changed was the Daedra armor and weapons being removed from the loots tables. You still find pretty much everything else in the entire game as random loot, with a random enchantment to boot.

AN RPG TRYING TO BE AN RPG MAKES IT BETTER THAN A PSEUDO RPG NOT EVEN TRYING TO BE ONE ANYMORE
Of the two, Oblivion is the closest one to being an RPG because Skyrim dropped that entirely and tries instead to be an action game. Which would be cool if it wasn't so bloody terrible at it.

Which would be a good point to make if sacrificing those RPG elements for a solid action experience resulted in a decent game, something you can see with Fallout 4 actually (because ID designed the action, not Bethesda) but Skyrim is a living testament that that's not what happens.

All Skyrim boils down to is swinging your weapon towards someone until he's dead. Advanced tactics include holding your shield\weapon until he attacks like the retard the AI is so there's a few seconds he can't defend at all.
The rest of the game is a competition to see who has the biggest armor and causes the most damage, dictated entirely by level and equipment, so pretty much Borderlands, except you can make up for any difference by chugging health points or eating food.

And this is the melee combat, the magic combat sees Alteration reduced to a single Armor spell, Restoration is healing because Wards are not mana-efficient, Illusion is now useless except for Invisibility, Destruction is the school of spam, Conjuration is the school of temporary henchmens and Mysticism, the one thing that gave some depth to the magic system as well as good utility spells, is fucking gone!

Underrated post.

Well said user.

Can't you both just agree that Oblivion and Skyrim are shit games and move on?

No, because it's important to figure out why each game is shit and rank them on a shit scale. At least then we can chase away Bethestards by invoking facts, like a vampire being chased away by sunlight.

All Bethesda games are shit because they fail at the basic premise of cRPGs. You're never actually roleplaying, one playthrough is exactly like the next one (barring some choices you can make in Morrowind). What you're actually doing in a Bethesda game is playing a bunch of different characters inhabiting the same body, so you can be the leader of the mage guild and the leader of the assassins with the same character and have neither of these roles ever clash with each other or be referenced during story or questing.

Every other broken, unbalanced, buggy, poorly implemented mechanic is secondary to this fundamental failure that is present in all Bethesda games.

And what's your point with any of this? I didn't tell you Skyrim did any of the things it did well - just that it was at least trying to do it. It was trying to be an action game. Did it fail? Yes.

It's the fact they were implemented at all that matters, not how well they were. Oblivion didn't even try to implement new features - it was stripped down.

It's not the quests that matters, but the result. Master Spells in Oblivion were just regular spells with better magnitudes, outside of a few very specific examples, like Conjuration.

Yeah, I really enjoy busting through Random World #XX over and over again. And that pile of fifty Sigil Stones I had humming on the shelves of my house in Bravil, those were really just wonderful rewards. Invisibility and Chameleon are the only things that make the Gates bearable.

It's not about how tough the armor is, it's the lore aspect. Random Bandits running around in Daedric shit is stupid. The same way crafting it in Skyrim is stupid. The same way finding it in random loot is stupid. But those two, at the very least, have some sort of fucked logic - random bandits should be in leather.

And while Skyrim did have some HP inflation, 800HP is objectively wrong - the highest Bandit HP is something like 500HP. Which is still stupid, yes, but can be easily dealt in a few seconds at those higher levels. Oblivion keeps scaling shit as you level, so you are better off not leveling past a certain point. Which completely defeats the point of having a leveling system.

This is completely wrong. If the company can't design a good RPG, they shouldn't try to. It's that simple.

Please don't encourage autism. That was all screeching about how old things are good and new things are bad. Skyrim with mods (like every other Bethesda game ever made) is perfectly fun and even has some amazing quest addons like Falskaar and the Forbidden Depths and the Inferno of Molag Bal.

this tbh fams

No, it's not important. Once a game is low (or high) enough on the shit scale it doesn't matter how shit it is. Shit's shit.

is this the new form of tripfagging?

What if the game is so shit because of a single fundamental error and learning what that error is will go a long way toward fixing it? This user has the right idea.
Speaking of not roleplaying, I've noticed that a lot of people who "Roleplay" in TES games tend to do it in the same way you would larp, by using your imagination.

Yeah, tesfags love playing pretend and calling it role playing.
en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Roleplaying

Yup. All that shit is happening in their heads. It's not even proper LARPing, they're just playacting in a virtual playpen without any NPC in the game having any mechanisms to respond to what they're doing.

I can't even imagine the kind of insane autism it has to take to do something like that. Might as well go take a walk in the woods and use your imagine all the cool shit you could be doing there.

kek
Could have mentioned Wyrmstooth but you had to go for Lorkhan's ironing board instead.
There's only so much you can do to fix Skyrim, it's too broken on a fundamental level in every aspect. (Except music but very few games can screw that up.) Perks is another aspect that can be fixed but that requires smart people and you won't find many smart modders.

...

That's wrong though. The only way you can somewhat fix a Bethesda "style" game is by removing the majority of the game, and/or outright replacing the whole thing. There's a few well-known examples of the latter, Enderal, Nehrim, Arkwend, etc. A recent and starkly different one, Frost, is probably the best possible mod for Fallout 4, because it removes all the garbage from the game, but keeps some of the good features. It doesn't create, it takes away, so no longer is there some retarded plot about your son being the robotmaster, or a bunch of stupid sidequests, it's just pure exploration, combat, and survival. This is probably the only way to pull off a Bethesda Fallout game properly. One might even say that you could pull off an Elder Scrolls game like this and it would be much better than what we get every 4-5 years.

In fact, Frost is sort of what Bethesda intended to do with Fallout in the first place, more or less. Fallout 3 is so fucktarded because it retains elements of the previous, shortly after-war setting, whilst having the tacked on crap they added near the end that makes the whole thing fucking stupid. It's why there's unexpired food still left in many of the houses and buildings in the game. The Enclave-Brotherhood plot was likely tinkered halfway through to give it more connection and references to the other games. This is all speculation though, but it would explain everything about the fucking game.

What is wrong with Falskaar?

There is a mod called Ordinator Perks that adds hundreds of new ones. And they are all actually useful and fun. Using your Speech skill actually matters because it adds the ability to make your shouts stronger, play music, and intimidate people to not fight you by screaming at them in the middle of fighting. Its a pretty good addon.

Scales are built with individual elements in each step. To grade things from 0 to 10, you need your 2s and your 3s.
Understanding why a game is shit, what doesn't work in it, is the key to judging other games.

Errant Signal did a video about this, specifically for Fallout 4 but it seems apt for just about any Bethesda game.
At the end of the day, there's no real character in the world, there's just the player. You'll do things that you think are cool, not because of your character. He's not real, he doesn't exist and won't ever be acknowledged by the game, but you the player will.

It's basically making a game where you can fuck around and have fun, not actually roleplay (which would be fine if it wasn't so bland and featureless on it's own)

But you did said it was better than Oblivion and then proceeded to post a long list of "look at this shiny element that's not really good at all! Look at how they changed things in a cosmetic way and never really fixed anything! Look at all the pretty things added to make up for the removal of previous elements!"

And by this you mean a bigger fireball. Amazing.

And facing the variety of Daedra you don't have in Skyrim, but apparently it's a problem that Oblivion lost some to Morrowind.
And I'm sure beating down Dragons is a lot better, what with all those souls to unlock shouts you'll never use anyway and dragon bones that only exist to break the economy or fill your chest in case you're a blacksmith. Top notch chalenge and top notch rewards there!

And how's that supposed to fucking prove Skyrim is better than Oblivion?
There's an Oblivion Crisis happening as you play the game, bandits looking dead Xivilai outside their gates or sneaking in and being lucky they can make it out is always a possibility.
Meanwhile, the player crafting the armor is the one thing that makes no fucking sense and has no explanation, especially when the Midden exists.

And don't you fucking downplay this, it is indeed about the stats. Bandits having Daedra armor is stupid but at least it's an indicator they are tougher than usual. Meanwhile in Skyrim you'll see a dozen bandits all wearing leather but one can barely damage while another will cleave your head in half because of artificially inflanted HP\armor\damage.
Skyrim does not convey properly how tough an enemy is and even deceives you with the equipment they show the enemy wearing. It's so bad that bandits wearing Daedra armor sounds like a better choice.

And if they can't design a good action game, they shouldn't try either, but they still made Skyrim.
You wanna know why Skyrim is actually objectively worse than Oblivion?
Because Oblivion tried to be an RPG and failed. Skyrim tried to be an RPG and an action game and failed at both. It's double the failures.

It's "roleplaying" versus "pretending", the difference being a single one: does the game acknowledge your actions?

Going around Oblivion\Morrowind doing a pilgrimage and visiting every altar is roleplaying as the game rewards you with shrines in the chapel you can use to attain some bonus and there's even a quest that requires you to do so.
But dropping pieces of gold or food inside the shrines bowl as an offering is just pretending, since the game does not acknowledge that any differently than dropping them on top of a table.

You can also pretend to have meals at set intervals but if you don't have a mod that tracks hunger, that's just pretending. And even then, roleplaying isn't just filling a bar, it's the scavenging for food in someone's cellar or hunting deer for a steak.

Thing is, a lot of people prefer pretending over roleplaying because it's far more convenient. You don't have to worry about anything you pretend to be an issue, you can just forget it at will. And you don't have to play by a set of rules to achieve some desired effect through a specific method, you just have to imagine it's happening this way because of what you did.

All Bethesda games become a lot more tolerable once you stop roleplaying and just start pretending you are some cool dude that came to save the day and kickass. Course, that's only if you're happy with just pretending…

No, please, just no. That's what Todd believes and why every iteraction of [bethesda game] you see less and less gameplay in their retarded attempt at "fixing" things.
Their problem is trying to create an open world game but not making it sandbox at all and open world games that aren't even a little bit sandbox always turn out to be drab wastes of time, since you get the linearity of a corridor but with no cohesion.

Skyrim in particular would be easy to "fix", at least the Civil War. Have it be dynamic, with cities changing "ownership" over time, like once every in-game week. Then have effects the player can see, like the stocks in shops changing (more gold and jewelry with Imperials, more pelts and leather with Stormcloaks). Then have the game track a "war score" for each region that decides who wins the next fight and can be influenced in many ways, raising normally on it's own as long as there are shipments of farms, mines and logging camps to the region fort.

The player could take no part in the bar but assault the caravans for his own wealth or after picking a side, assaulting the caravans of the oponent, preventing his "regional war score" from rising and contributing to his own. Even be able to dictate where to attack next if he proves himself in battle or defending regions under attack.

This wouldn't fix the combat, magic or dragons non-sense at all, but it would make the game a bit more bearable. It could be fun to plot battles, to actually be able to lose them, to employ sabotage or just be a bandit and steal shit.
In fact, there's a mod that does pretty much this just to show that it's possible

By removing the majority of the game, I mean like how Frost does it. It's the only tolerable way to play Fallout 4, without it the game is irredeemable trash.

Your number one problem, you daffy fuck, is that you obviously want an autistic survival simulator and you're looking for it in games that are very obviously not meant to be that way. Do you even begin to understand how fucking stupid you sound?

"I like apples, but I tried this orange and it doesn't taste like an apple at all! Oranges suck, add apple features!"

Bethesda can't make good RPGs though, so the solution is for them to stop making RPGs, or rather trying to make RPGs.

Roleplaying games can be any number of things because they allow you to play a role. Like someone said earlier in the thread, its the power of imagination and being able to tackle situatuons from multiple angles. Normalfags bought the shit out of Skyrim and made them feel like roleplaying was accessible and fun and not "just for nerds," so yes it was a good RPG in every sense of the actual term. Deal with it. Was it a good game for someone with discerning tastes? Absolutely not. But it was a great RPG because anyone could play it and have fun with it unless they were autistically looking for flaws.

Bethesda games are designed like a themepark, you go from one ride to the next but none of them are connected to one another. Sometimes the rides are fun, at others the rides are rusty and needs maintenance.
The problem is that we're playing games and not in a fucking theme park.

What isn't wrong with Falskaar?

Because those "pretty things" make it more like an action game, while the things removed were aspects that made it like an RPG. The stuff which was taken away from Skyrim was barely contributing in Oblivion because of how bad it was with the RPG elements. It's like complaining that Morrowind removed the language skills from Daggerfall when they never actually worked.

A step over Fingers of the Mountain.

Dragons are a thing to kill. Gates are just a thing to go into. They're both shit, but at least Dragons can be dealt with quickly, and you move on with your life. You have to go into a fuckload of Gates for the mainquest, and only a few are actually any good.

The whole point of Daedric Armor was that it was Ebony infused with the soul of a lesser Daedra. Either way you cut it, it's supposed to be incredibly rare - visual similarities aside, the shit that most of those Dremora you see using isn't Daedric. Even in Oblivion, that shit was reserved for the top-tiers.

It's lore-fuckery regardless of how you do it. Skyrim had to fucking change the process of creating the armor in its in-game books as an explanation.

And yeah, I will fucking downplay the stat issue, because even the tough bandits quickly become a non-issue. Those stupid Oblivion bandits? Their shit just keeps fucking scaling. But the Bandits? Those are the simple ones. They have the decency to get diminishing returns. Goblins are the real hell of Oblivion. Consider: The "Ancient Dragon" in Skyrim has ~3000 HP, and you deal with the fuckers at Level 50. Your average Goblin Warlord at that same level in Oblivion has ~1500 HP, in a game where damage output is generally much lower. Have fun dealing with them hunting in packs as you spent precious minutes of your life chipping away at something that can't even really damage you.

If you think Skyrim was even trying to be an RPG you're insane. Bethesda might have put that genre label on it, but they knew exactly what they were making, and it wasn't an RPG.

It is impossible to roleplay in Skyrim.
So by that standard, the best RPG ever must consist of watching TV with your slack jaw open and no thoughts in your brain.

That's not how you judge anything's quality.

It is if your only goal is profit.

So? A publisher's goals aren't the same as the consumers'.

It is with enough marketing
People will want what the TV tells them to want, they are literally that stupid

10/10 statement. Sums up a bunch of the issues the game had.

So basically a Western RPG Maker? If they give people more control than the Creation Kit did, it could work quite well, but there's definitely potential for what you described as well.

Which companies? I haven't heard of anyone trying to make their own Bethesda-style game.

It could also be a world with dozens of Enderals.

That's simply not true. Among other things, there are lots of new weapons, armors, and spells, various perk overhauls, difficulty mods, hotkey mods, new creatures, and some new worldspaces and quests. People have made mods for every part of the game that can be modded.

TES lore isn't particularly conducive to good, coherent stories anyway, considering what a massive clusterfuck it is.

I don't think people are stupid. I think they're just inundated with media and advertising from birth, and that it takes a lot of effort and help from others to understand that they're being subjected to a system that tries to shape their minds and goals in ways that work against their own self-interest, They Live-style
Polite sage for off-topic.

Forgot my fucking sage.

Why do faggots feel the need to do this? its not a downvote you retard. It doesn't change the fact that you already bump the thread.

No, they don't. They fool you into thinking it's more like an action game but at it's core it's still the same game.
You do not play Skyrim anyway differently than you played Oblivion, you still can't dodge attacks, you still have only 2 types of armor, you still can't parry, you still block until attacked to exploit the dumb AI, it's all the same shit it was in Oblivion, zero difference.

But you lost "weakness to magic" or "reflect spell" and other effects as castable spells that added depth to magic.
You lost durability that made "desintegrate armor\weapon" or even Armorer a valid option, in a game that added Blacksmithing as a skill no less.
And you even lost Stamina as a resource to manage, that affects damage output and can be influenced with potions, poisons, how good you are with your weapon, different types of weapons and attacks consuming amounts of stamina, etc.

I'm sure it's worth it to lose all that so you can slay dragons instead of Daedra hordes or getting a lot of things that look cooler but actually aren't that interesting.

This is your only "argument". And by the quotes I mean that that particularly quest wasn't even about a particular school of magic so it's not even a valid comparison. The reward it gave you was bugged in the cost of magicka versus the damage output, it's a bug that several mods fix by the way, and it's a quest that gives you a choice on how to handle it without any reward for not being a scummy faggot, while the final reward isn't even part of the quest, it's about following instructions in a piece of parchement instead of a quest arrow.

If Fingers of the Mountain was in Skyrim, when you returned the book to the lizard, he'd give you a gold reward and the book would disappear from the game so you couldn't steal it and give to Earanna. And if you gave it to her, the same would happen, but instead of being rewarded with a method to get a cool spell, you'd get a passive effect that resists 5% of shock damage and that's it.

By the way: en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Master_Training
Here, you lost all that in exchange for some depth to the College. You want a more apt comparison? You lost all the Recommendation quests for only 6.

FTFY
Top argument. I'd rather someone at least try instead of making less painfull ways to spend my time.

TOP FUCKING LORE KNOWLEDGE RIGHT THERE, MATE!
Daedra Armor\Weapons ARE Daedra. It's a Daedra soul in a physical form, not all Daedra reform in humanoid shapes with spiky bits, sometimes they reform as the spiky bits. The armor is very much alive and influences the wearer even, putting him in arms way if they want you dead.

Daedra hearts are NOT daedra souls, the very minimum would be requiring a Grand Soulgem with a Deadra soul inside and even then it would require an actual ritual to bind both the soul and the armor to your service. Which is what the Midden is, sorta, and it should have stopped there.
Bandits looting Daedra armor amidst the Oblivion Crisis is more likely than a mortal "crafting" Daedra armor because the first one can happen with some luck while the second doesn't even make sense.

Oh yeah, it's a First Person Shooter where you play a stealth archer. Because the presence of skills, experience, stats (only 3 but still), equipment, factions to join, quests, etc are all staples of the Action genre, never seen before in RPGs.
The only thing Skyrim had that made it an action game is swinging swords and slinging spells in realtime. That's it, it's such a bad failure at being an action game it's more aptly called an RPG and even that it still fails.

In the same vein that Fallout 4 stopped being an RPG and became a shooter. Which made it better. Right?

It felt wrong not to acknowledge my mistake. I've been posting on imageboards for 12 years. Kill yourself.

Maybe its time to stop posting faggot

Sweet smug.jpg, friendo.

Yes it is. Sorry fuckboy, but when millions and millions of people buy something and like it, whether they are normalfags or not, that means it was good. Holla Forums's opinions (or yours honestly) mean nothing in the real world. It is literal textbook autism to actually believe your opinion is the be all end all de facto answer to everything. It made more money by itself than you will ever see in your lifetime, and if it was bad people wouldn't have bought it. Like when Resident Evil 6 came out and a week later it has half price brand new. Or No Sales Sky.

If you really think Skyrim was so shit, go ahead and make a super cool and good Unity game that will sell more copies. Go, I'll wait.

...

Basically, yeah. Thats the way the world works. There was a time when the Big Mac didn't even exist. It didn't magically propel itself to those numbers. It had something people liked that made them buy more and more and more. The same thing works for videogames.

It would almost be an incline over their current method. They suck at making games.

No, it doesn't. There's a difference between quality and popularity. Sometimes they overlap, but often they don't. You can't use a quantitative value (units sold) the same way as a qualitative value (subjective worth of a piece of art).

I'd pay $80 to make a steamy scenario where my character can get his shota cunt pozzed up by a gang of hist-positive argonians

Redundant tbh

I like being sure, thats all

Aren't Argonians immune to all disease?

Corprus and lycanthropy and vampirism are diseases…. so most common oblnes I suppose. But argonians are basically trees

They have 75% disease resistance in Oblivion and Morrowind, and 50% in Skyrim.
No, they're lizards that were given sentience and shaped by the Hist.

Quote and reply meant for

You are dangerously delusional. How much someone will pay for something is always more important than what you think its worth. Quantitive is set in stone and "qualitative" lead to horseshit like post modern art. You can't pay the bills with subjectivity. I'd say I hope to god that you never get a job involving money, but with opinions like that I am sure your tard wrangler handles the finances.

Modern art is used for money laundering. It doesnt even have perceived value fam

Qualia is any characteristic that is unquantifiable. I'm not glorifying relativism, you fucking idiot, I'm making a basic philosophical distinction that's vital to understanding the world, and you are trying to convince others that it doesn't exist. Artistic merit is qualitative. No amount of your trying will convince anyone that popularity = quality. You are either incredibly stupid, or trying to be edgy
I'm a bookkeeper and a financier. Kill yourself.

Can I have the name of your firm? I have to tell them they hired the stupidest nigger I have ever seen. I highly, HIGHLY doubt you have even been around a business if you think subjectivity pushes a product. Popularity is proportional to quality, because if something sucks people don't fucking buy it. This has been proven time and time again in the video game market and far beyond.

I am actually getting a headache trying to understand the angle you are coming from here. Holy shit. I have no clue how someone can be so detatched from reality. Is it really that hard to understand that when people like a product they buy it, and when they don't, it gets liquidated and disappears? Are you able to brush your teeth without drowning? Can you use the toilet without a safety harness? I am in complete disbelief here.

I just want a lizard fuck

Holla Forums is an enthusiast board, not a (((financier))) discussion board.

Quality and popularity are not the same thing unless you are evaluating a game from the narrow perspective of its ability to return on investment.

Video games are a quality-driven market. They are products that get pushed solely on the individual pleasure they bring to the consumer, like food or luxury goods. All of these marlets are flooded with competition that the consumer could very easily move to if the product isn't what they want. I am sorry, but in the realm of videogames, sales equals quality. Otherwise the sales wouldn't be there, they could easily move to millions of other comparatively priced products that have a higher…

wait for it…

quality.

Wrong.

You stupid fucking nigger, I was responding to your petty little jibe that you "hope I don't work with money," not passing off my occupation as an argument. Buy a shotgun and put it in your mouth.

I don't. I never said it did. I said that artistic worth isn't the same as units sold, like you're claiming.
That's not true, but you're also claiming that the inverse is true: that if people don't buy it, it must suck. This fails to account for gifts, or for the fact that, for the majority of human history, goods weren't bought or sold, but either used immediately or given in tribute. A bushel of wheat is not useless to me just because I didn't buy it.

I really can't fathom the depths of your stupidity, and I'm tired of trying.

I think he has this place mistaken for neofag, ribbit or similar shit where people do believe or may believe his retarded arguments and premises. Most people here have been through this "pop is best" discussion and/or have seen enough of vidya industry (or any entertainment industry) to know that popular/sales doesn't equal quality.
Fuck, you just have to look at various vidya award shits or gotys.

I'd be better off doing open world in fucking Unity, and that's saying something.

I was agreeing with you up until this.

Bullshit. There's no such thing as a good RPG. Just shit mechanics covered by a bunch of really neat bells and whistles that lose their luster after a certain amount of time.

Have you considered our lord and saviour KYS?

How could you fail so bad at hiding your shit taste and newfaggotry?

And that quality is subjective to everyone's whims and desires. A game might be very good for one person and really bad for someone else. You could make an argument here if everyone had the exact same taste in everything and therefore every game had the same potential to atract the same amount of people based entirely on how good it is.
However this not true, there are niche genres, there are games that focus more on one specific detail than another and there are games that sacrifice details essential for a playerbase that another might look over.
For instance, anyone looking for an action game with no "rpg elements to hold me back" will gladly enjoy Skyrim better than Oblivion or Fallout 4 than Fallout 3.
Does that mean those games are necessarily better than the previous ones? Nope. Just a majority wanting something different.

You're just making a very convoluted argument in favor of "tyranny of the majority", and by your logic Pop music is the pinnacle of the music industry closely followed by rap, CoD and Assassin's Creed are role models for game devs and the most ironic example, Africa is the standard by which everyone else should live.
I mean, pop music moves so much cash, CoD and AC sell so many copies and so many people live in Africa, you really can't refute this, can you?

You fucking mongoloids swallowed the "everything must be objective" bullshit just because "subjective" was co-opted, you're no better or more enlightened, you just found another way to be wrong.

What the normalfags believe RPG to be is literally 'make believe', power fantasy rather than assuming the role of a character of your own making with backstory, limitations, etc.

In Morrowind, for example, one could choose the path of the Monk and remain low-level, with an entire Temple faction and quest-line to go along with it, immersing oneself in the Tribunal faith and lore naturally rather than semi-cutscene exposition dumps once in a while.

Just look at what we got the first time they fiddled with the idea, a bugfix for a UI improvement, and some new weapons/armor.
Best part is the UI bugfix required you to run SKSE, essentially using open source stuff to access for profit content. A major legal issue.

Meanwhile the people that didn't get paid made amongst other things:

-Patches for game breaking bugs.
-Complete game overhauls.
-Textures with up to 8 times higher resolution.
-Completely new character models.
-New forms of gameplay.
-Independant story quests.
-Adult content.
-Remasters of previous games in the series.
-A framework for player housing Bethesda themselves would end up using.

And the major difference is quite easy to explain as well. It's much more easy to actually make stuff when you know it's out there in a tangible form for others to work with and vice versa. But when money is involved it's simply bizarre how much time you have to spend making sure your own assets don't copy someone else's work before you while at the same time continiously having to make sure nobody copypasted your work afterwards.

It's like having to solve 12x64= But one person already patented numerical values, another patented multiplications, and 70% of your test score will go to your teacher by default. Good luck getting a passing grade motherfucker.