It is 2017 and this shit is NOT ok

Autism

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GRAPHICS
ARE
EVERYTHING
IT'S 2017

Ah, now I know why it is an issue that has persisted for nearly 3 decades.
You sorts of fucking idiots.

Because fuck the advancement of software. Fuck the advancement of physics engines. Fuck exploiting hardware capabilities to create truly wonderful and magnificent things!

So long as it just LOOKS PRETTY its ok.

You are cancer. I hope the CIA makes your car kill you.

CURRENT YEAR

Its okay as long as muh ass is still visible

Why do people even fall for purdy grafics?

I don't know shit, but it may be because detection that in-depth could cause some kind of common trap if you somehow glitch your way into it among other detection problems, that and consoles
also since it's completely inconsequential you save time and effort with no drawbacks just making models like that non-elements
I completely agree with you OP, and I would like to see games eventually advance and phase it out except for smash bros but its not a HUGE deal

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That's the thing, you're the only autist here complaining about how things look. Me? I care about things that actually matter. I care about GAMEPLAY.

Neck yourself, nigger.

Like omg it's LITERALLY the current year how can this be a thing??

No, it can't just LOOK pretty. It must have good gameplay. Gameplay is the most important part of a game. And Nier Automata has that AND a nice story in spades, but instead of enjoying all it has to offer and the fun to be had, you're bitching about some negligible clipping issues? I could understand if you clipped the ground and it killed your or kept you stuck in the sky box or something. But this is such a minor issue, you can't even call it an issue.

Gameplay is king in videogames. The game can look like dogshit, but if it plays well that's what matters the most. A good story is just the icing on the cake.

Kill yourself you goddamned sperg.

honestly, if it were a PS4 exclusive, I'd see why OP was acting like this much of a faggot, but considering its coming to PC, I can tell he's serious and is legitimately buttfrustratedly retarded.

Its simple. Why waste cpu resscources on an inworld object that is probably never going to be touched. Its not about being lazy, its about efficency, so they put more into ACTUAL gameplay stuff.

Reduced world geometry hitboxes gave us one of the best things in gaming, speedruns.

Consoles don't have that.
That's all the marketing department cares about.
When the power is limited, like with consoles, they'd rather ensure the game sells with pretty graphics by using all the console's potential on that over doing extra collision checks for clipping.
We're also not gonna get anywhere with exaggerated claims like that.

Except for when OP's autismal ass runs out of things to complain about on taiwanese tapestry sites

First of all, not a thread about Nier Automata. Its what I'm playing now so I took screenshots.

You have the same problems on PC. I'm generally a PC gamer. I have just hit that upper limit and i'm waiting a tiny bit because instead of updating graphics cards I want to go for a full new build (AMD just put out a new chip, that's interesting to me).
But you're a moron if you think this doesn't happen the same way in PC games.

On another note, this ultimately does change the nature of gameplay. If my character, or enemy, or any part of character or enemy can just clip through physical objects then this means that physical objects, that I can see, that are visually represented, don't mean much. This means that the gameplay may as well be on a fucking empty god damn stage. Stage after stage of empty fucking space to fight in.

No.

I don't want that. And its been like 3 decades. Why can't this shit be fixed already?
And the bigger problem, inconsistency. You've seen it, i've seen it. Some things might get environmental feedback but others do not?

So you have a problem now that Steve Jobs (That fucking asshole) described when he was young…marketing ruling product-based companies.
BTW, it takes nothing to make something LOOK real. But ACT real takes lots more power.

Yeah, because that's what I care about when I play games. Speed runs.
And you faggots call ME the autist?

You insufferable retards, clipping issues DO impact gameplay significantly, across a whole plethora of genres.

If developers had invested more time and effort into researching better collision detection we would have overall better hitboxes, far less instances of people getting stuck inside of objects/falling right through them and way less instances of faggots shooting you because they saw your gun poking through the terrain.

Invested far too heavily into graphical fidelity instead of improving core concepts like collision is precisely why we're in this mess to begin with.

Why don't you fags post an actually shit game that has all these problems and then maybe someone will take you seriously

It's a fucking pipe that you give no context into how you spent your autism time positioning yourself into so you can show how the collision detection isn't there for something a normal person wouldn't try to interact with.

kek, I hope your autism goes to levels beyond the possible and you lose control of your autonomic bodily functions and die because you thought too hard about how to make them more advanced

Alright, I was just going to pass over this thread, but now you've pissed me off. Fuck you, you fucking autistic piece of shit. We've had three decades of graphics whoring and I want games to go back to focusing on gameplay first and worry about your precious details later. If you have a problem with that, you shouldn't even be playing games in the first place. Graphicsfags belong in the fucking garbage.

Fuck off.

Learn to read, speglord, I never said the hitboxes were shit I said they could be better if we had better collision detection in general. Hitboxes and collision detection are so heavily intertwined practically the exact same thing, so it stands to reason that if we'd spent the past dozen years trying to fix clipping and improved collision detection we would, by extension, have games with overall better hitboxes.

you can stop right fucking there you back tracking sperg. Nier is the game image in the OP AND the game you're directly referring to with that clipping "issue". I couldn't care less what you're playing now Odin Sphere IS a good game though

nice proxy you fag
I never said there aren't games with serious clipping issues, we're talking about Nier Automata, you simpleton. Please consider suicide as a permanent solution for your insufferable autism

absolute truth.

On second thought, don't reply to me. Holy shit, you write like an actual, retarded, autistic person. Enjoy your dumpster fire thread.

No. Fuck you all.

I'm sorry, but you're playing VIDEO GAMES. This shit matters. imagine if you were playing a fucking board game of any type and your board game piece just clipped through another piece, or the board.
This is a part of gameplay and this shit matters. It matters a lot.
This goes beyond the cosmetic.
This goes to when an enemy sword cuts through a wall just to hit you. This goes to someone who can poke their gun through a column and not be hit by YOUR bullet but because the end of their gun clips through they can hit you.

To be honest, these arguments presented against fixing the clipping issue in 3D video games (they don't really exist as bad in 2D games) only makes sense if you're fucking BLIND.

I'm honestly surprised that there is actual opposition to this. I have to seriously give consideration that there might be industry shills here working to keep their shit lazy.

You fucked up using that game as the thread image. Now all the waifufags are going to spam you with nonsense for it. Try again later with a different header and image.

Fuck off autist.
You wanna no clipping? Play 2D games.

Every time some motherfucker complains about one aspect of game development that hasn't been improved upon despite decades of hardware advancement ten other motherfuckers come out of the woodwork and say it doesn't matter because some other aspect is more important.
You stupid cunts keep fighting over these issues as if gave development as a whole hasn't suffered since vidya hit the mainstream, and that somehow fixing one issue means that other issues can't also be fixed.

We will have shit games as long as those studios exist to show everyone the example of how you can make money out of lowest quality vidya with your player base as free beta testers. This includes everything being early access nowadays.

Explain to me this. How does the hair clipping through the collar of a character's shirt effect gameplay?

Clipping isn't even an issue.

Direct issue? Video games are a visual medium? And perhaps I forego that cloak with the high collar that has better stats because of the hair style of my character makes a DISTRACTING hair clipping issue with it.
Not a problem in first person.
A problem in third person though.

And oh lets top this off with the fact that many games have character creators and want you to be invested in the worlds in that way.

Video games are interactive medium.

Yeah, you're autistic.

lel

Or perhaps I try to take cover and an attack hits me anyway.
You're a fucking retard.

it feels good not to be this autistic.

Ok then.

Explain. how have the goalposts moved?

Say that to me the next time you fall through a "solid" piece of ground.

Or when you're unable to run through a gap between two objects that should, by all rights, allow you through.

Or when you're shooting at someone and your projectiles collide with some nearby terrain's hitbox despite having a clear view of your target.

Or when an attack hits a wall and keeps traveling through even though it should have bounced off.

Or when someone kills you because they saw your weapon poking through the other side of a wall.

Or when an attack hits you despite, visually, passing inches from your body.

Or when a physics object suddenly spergs out and throws a physics shitfit, launching itself into your torso at light speed and insta-killing you.

Or when something just looks really fucking ugly because a dozen different items are all clipping through each other without a care in the world.

These are all solved by solving clipping issues.

My immediate analysis is that these fucks just haven't played enough video games.

Next thing you say is that visual clipping and collision detection is the same thing.

Are you trying to imply the two are somehow separable? If so, I'd love to know how you'd solve clipping without also contributing towards fixing a whole host of collision based issues given that, by it's very nature, clipping is an issue of collision.

visual clipping and collision detection is the same thing

There's a big difference between visual glitches and the physics engine failing.
It's hard enough for video games to make things look round let alone simulate real world material and spacial physics.

That's actually my suggested solution for most of the problems of modern vidya.

Do you know what collision box is?

Isn't it all essentially the same, though? An object is inside of another object when it shouldn't be. It's all a matter of preventing objects from passing through each other, right?

Then why are we still wasting more and more resources on making everything look ever so slightly more fanciful? Personally, I'd rather my GPU and CPU spend their cycles trying to maximize how realistic something actually behaves, as opposed to how realistic it merely looks.

Looks like we got a hothead over here

Why would you crash someone's car before crashing their plane with no survivors

Not entirely. They're related but no the same. This doesn't go over collision boxes specifically but it should give you an idea.

What a stupid fucking comparison. Here, I can make retard analogies too

What a shock that the game has better things to spend it's resources on some random shit it doesn't need to. And fuck you for trying to spin a picture of some random fucking pipe into assumptions about the collision detection of mechanics players actually experience, not situations you wedged yourself into like dumb children into small spaces, and then cry when it doesn't perfectly accommodate you. Just fucking go to bed already DSP.

I'd rather have all sorts of cloth physics and customization options. I don't give a shit about clipping as long as it's not related to you know actual gameplay-related collision detection.
People that can't differentiate between the two and want games to be reality simulators are probably mentally handicapped or really want attention and (you)s. Or both.

I will never get how people don't understand that an advancement in technology is not always a net gain, and that it can come with problems of its own. An example would be how poor animations stand out much more in higher graphical fidelity, or how we need more processing power, time, and money to implement a lot of these newer technologies, which in turn takes a lot of focus off of designing the encounters in the game. Another example would be 3D games, I don't think I've played a 3D beat em' up/hack and slash that didn't feel awkward as hell to control. It's oftentimes why they have to implement some sort of lock on, which, yet again, comes with its own problems such as locking onto the wrong enemy or sometimes fucking with the camera. I can understand why people enjoy these things, and I think they have their own merits. Some people, however, seem to believe that technological advancement is a straight line where everything farther down the line is inherently better and doesn't have flaws unique to it.

It's not that simple Even if you scaled back to early N64 graphics the resource drain is going to be too much for any publicly available system to deal with. Part of it is simply how polygons work.
Something that might help would be for devs to go back to making custom in house engines but good luck getting that to happen in the current climate.
And to go back to what said about 2D solving the problem, on second thought it really doesn't. Even sprite based games had clipping problems from time to time.

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But you're on Holla Forums, you fucking retard.

Realism is the dragon of the modern gaming age and it needs to be killed

Games have more and more fucking anti-consumer shit like Denuvo, mass amounts of DLC, day 1 patches because of rushed development, bloated filesizes because "lel 4k lel less cpu overhead lel uncompressed audio lelelele" and you complain about FUCKING CLIPPING?! How about we fix the big issues before fixing the small ones?

The technology to "realistically" simulate hair and fur has only come down to the mass market just recently, and it has proven itself to be a massive resource hog, usually with requirements for proprietary hardware on top. The big issue here is that we will have to wait for the next generation of CPUs, GPUs and game engines to make collision detection, cloth and hair physics a core feature, and likely have to wait for the PS5 and XBone 2, if they ever come out, to witness widespread use of the technology.

Another issue is that the era of "easy" gains in processing power are largely over, we're about to hit the miniaturization wall and it will take quite a while before a breakthrough, that is economically viable, comes around. I'm saying this because even if we have the technology and raw power to do some of the fancy graphical fidelity stuff the developers might still choose to ignore such minor features in favor of more grandiose graphical displays. Games always have a tradeoff between graphics and scale.

It's a matter of principle.
The moment you compromise on one minor thing, the next you'll allow bigger shit to happen, and so on.

How do you find playing video games a possibility then? There is literally not a single game that isn't built on compromises.
You're either lying to yourself or just shitposting.

unrelated, but damn the graphics in general look fucking terrible here. Is that on console? It looks like a game played on incredibly low-res pc settings

Yes console.
Don't expect PC to be better, really.

I don't. I expect shit graphics regardless of platform

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At least I don't get upset by clipping in a video game.

i think you can expect AA at the very least

I do.

stay away from this game, OP. you might have an aneurysm.

I don't disagree with you that much and there's nothing I can add on to your post.

But I just want to point out something.
But this is Sega, in 2012. On the PS3.
I personally like to believe that developers just don't give a fuck anymore.

We're so used to developers being shitty that when someone does something amazing, we're blown out of the water. Example: Metal Gear Solid 3 was released in 2004 and it has a better engine than games released in 2017. I know there's some propreitary bullshit at work, but there's no excuse that a game outdated by 13 years still looks better than modern creations.

And then there's Yakuza 0.

I'm too drunk to elaborate how much of a shitshow 0 was.

GraphicsFags are a cancer.

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SRS talk, Snipperclips is fucking fun if you've got friends. It goes from co-op puzzle solving to cackling PVP in seconds.

I stopped wearing the Sheikah outfit in BOTW because of the scarf clipping through the equipment on the back. Sure, weapons sticking like magnets to imaginary spots on the protags back is fine, but cloth clipping grinds my gears
not even joking, did change the clothes

Here's a challenge
play through a 3d fantasy game with minimal clipping

take a drink every time something clips further than it should

Stopping that clipping would mean either:

or, more realistically,

I don't want either. Well, I do want realistic soft body physics for everything, but I am not an idiot and understand that this is not realistically achievable on consumer grade hardware. As for invisible walls, fuck them, I'd rather clip through the railing and fall off than have it restrict me any further.

You can just program the PC to react when getting close to a piece of geometry by playing an animation, like in some FPS games when you get close to a wall you raise the weapon or place a hand on the wall.

As for simulating soft body physics, I do agree, it's too much wasted effort and resources for little gain, especially when the time could be used elsewhere.

Kys tbh fam, killing the industry with piracy

Physics-based collission detection is too taxing on any system (especially one with many 3d objects), so you'll have to live with some slight clipping.

Selective perception much? MGS3 looks like shit for anything but character model faces.

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idk what you expected

It's not that physics based collision detection is too taxing. That's what you'll usually use since the physics engine relies on collision detection heavily to accurately simulate how things move. It's choosing which objects deserve collision models, and the developers decided that some decorative things there didn't deserve them. You also have to choose how much of an approximation to use, since doing polygonal mesh collision detection is way too much work for games.

OP is just a retarded faggot complaining about inane shit.

Retards like you are the fucking problem.

Autism is only a curse user. Sorry..

A child being normal is the real gift.

It's a question of what to compromise on - good games are ones that compromise on the non-essential in favor of the essential.

One of these things doesn't have long to live, and I'm not sure if it's Bioware with all hopes going to their new Mass Effect game, or Ubisoft for currently fending off a hostile takeover.

Why did you count out Bethesda? They can die any day now.

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Most games use an endless bag of camera, texture and modelling tricks to even get a good game running on a high end PC or release within a time window that doesnt cripple a dev team.
Wait until we get quantum computers before you get autism over minor clipping which is in every single fucking 3D game

Which is it, assholes?

I don't know what is more sad.
The fact that some of these autistic faggots thing I'm talking about Nier Automata exclusively…
Or that we have a 20 year old problem that hasn't got better and people think it is excusable.
I didn't used to believe in shills on this board but god damn some of you faggots really make me think that you're in the pocket directly of this industry.

then bring up non nier automata, gameplay-affecting collider issues

There are more approaches: Many textiles and hair clipping issues on a character could be solved by canned animations. Seeing hairs and clothes clipping just while standing in place is not a technical problem, it is laziness. The problem is when you want movement options combine and visually flow into each other nicely, you then get an explosion of needed canned animations for all the transitions or you accept some abrupt-looking changes in hair and clothes (without clipping though).

You can also put objects inside simple collision geometries and only activate the more complex collision geometry calculations when the simple geometries intersect. And for single-player games, you can make the complexity of the collision geometry also depend on how close the action is to the camera (resulting in some spooky speed runs).

You sound like a ideaguy which by proxy means you should kill yourself. hitboxes are the simplist form of collision detection and requires the least processing power, but if every fucking object required those collision checks, you lose performance on things that don't prevent you from playing the game in the first place. If this was heavily physics based and you threw a box and it clipped through something, I'd get it. But for most every other game, the clipping doesn't fucking change a thing other than make you unable to move a little further.

If your goal was to prevent all clipping you wouldn't do it with graphics, it isn't a graphics issue, it's a physics issue. You'd need to throw away the idea of having bounding volumes which were simpler than your geometry - that's going to slow down collision detection, which means your AI (raycasts) and gameplay logic is also going to slow down. The amount of slowdown would depend on the polycount of your game objects. It isn't hard to do, it's a tradeoff.

Every physics engine already does this you goddamn retard. AABB check before doing physics mesh check. It's called broadphase collision detection.

Sitting down. Skirt clipping through.

This is sloppy.

/thread

Is this the thread where people compete to see who sounds like the biggest faggot?

Yes, and we have a winner.

Yes

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WE WERE PROMISED MARS COLONIZATION BUT GOT FACEBOOK INSTEAD

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its the game i'm currently playing. I said as much. As such I am grabbing screenshots from it as I play it.

you can literally fix it by just expanding the wall colliders a bit
but doing this for every fucking corner of the map is just a waste of time for such an small inconvenience that doesn't do anything to the gameplay

By now I'd expect it to be something inherent in the game engines these people are working in.
Like other long solved problems and techniques.
This one, however, just keeps popping up.

I can forgive it, a bit, for character interacting with environment but the biggest sin is character model interacting with itself. Clothing and other parts of the player character model clipping through other parts of the same model.

Megaman shots pass through walls.

I love PlatinumGames, but their physics always suck ass. W101, Bayonetta, etc. Invisible walls, things you can walk on then suddenly can't. They're bad. But they are a smaller studio and they make games on a cheaper budget. This is definitely a Platinum Games thing.

Look at Xenoblade Chronicles X. It's on a piece of shit system, yet the physics are almost always extremely well done and you can jump all over buildings and stuff without clipping.

This goes beyond the cosmetic.

This goes to when an enemy sword cuts through a wall just to hit you. This goes to someone who can poke their gun through a column and not be hit by YOUR bullet but because the end of their gun clips through they can hit you.

But that's not what we're being shown in the OP. The screenshot looks like it's taken from a walking section, rather than a combat section. Show me a sword clipping through a wall or a shield, rather than 2B clipping through a fucking random pipe in a corridor, and then we'll talk about how the "gameplay" is effected.

I'm not a professional by any means, but a lot of it comes down to performance and time. Usually, devs fit important objects and models with colliders or whatever they would call the boxes they fit around the models that makes it so anything that comes in contact with that box doesn't just walk through it, or dictates how the model the box encases reacts to the whatever is touching the box. It's VERY difficult to have accurate collisions everywhere all the time on everything. There are various methods of achieving somewhat accurate collisions, with some being much more taxing on the overall performance of the game, which then means you have to bite a chunk off of the game's graphical fidelity to compensate for it. In short, it's a computational problem that hasn't really been solved. You're going to be able to clip through some parts and objects of any game. That's just how it is right now. It's not really laziness (though that depends on which game we're talking about), but just something that can't always be helped, like some objects not casting shadows when they're within the radius light source, or pre baked lighting bleeding through walls and cracks (fucking looking at you Battlefield 3/4)

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And his statement is still true, the majority of a budget's cost for AAA games is defacto marketing and advertising. This part of the budget far outstrips the cost of making the game to the point that games are actually being under budgeted at the expense of marketing.

Well, it's been 3 hours already, don't leave me hanging

to all the hyperfags who think that having a huge graphic in the middle of the screen of something that isnt there isnt a gameplay problem
wtf? if you were in a cover shooter you would be fucking pissed, this is very much a gameplay problem
you know when you try to fire around a corner in an FPS and the reticle is around the graphic for the corner but then there is a bullethole in midair next to it? its the same problem but in reverse and it is very much a gameplay problem.

You might be schizophrenic, user. You should get that checked out.

Remember that people saying "muh nitpick" should either go back to ign, /r/gaming or whatever place idiots go to nowadays, or get a real job because being a shill isn't.
Ignore what the retards say, they're just pulling shit out of their asses. What you see there is pure lazyness. If what they say about collision detection was true then 2B would just clip through every solid object in the game, including the floor. Also, a parallelepiped is one of the simplest 3d models you can possibly make and it's absolutely fine for those metal beams while costing no discernible performance difference even with multiples of them unless you're already running at 1fps.

Why are we even pretending in the first place that this garbage hack and slash with tacked on RPG elements is good?

2B's ass, and the bad kind of weeb.

It's not even out yet, so if anything, people are anticipating it.
If nothing goes wrong, it's a new fucking NieR with combat that's not absolutely ass. And there's nothing bad about that.

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The only reason 0 has so much shit on the overworld was because it was running on Ishin's engine, which may have worked well for rural settings, but not that well for a modified '80s Tokyo.

Laziness and low standards. The mappers could easily fix the clipping, but they just don't care as long as it isn't something that would impact sales.

You can like something without being a fanatic, senpai.

Let's use an example of a fucking GameCube game, to illustrate the point. Way back on the N64, and to a different extent PSX, they could only fit so many objects on the screen or even in a loaded area. Something about how much could be loaded into memory or dealt with by the CPU, I'm not an expert on this crap. By the GC however, they could do a lot more shit at once. Hence, Pikmin, which is a game where there's up to 100 of the little fuckers on the screen. Then you have all the other stuff loaded in the stage, or on the screen, it was a lot for a console. Now years down the line they wanted to make the games not look like total garbage (mostly, sometimes they end up making it look like garbage anyway), so they make things pretty. But then the rest of the game gets tanked by that. In a "perfect" world, a game would be made out of tofu-like placeholder bricks so that you could focus on other things, but despite what some people on Holla Forums think the other parts of a game do help the presentation a little.
I have no idea what I'm talking about, someone with better knowledge of anything computer related translate what I'm trying to say from retardese.

But it is.
it's shit

2D games have tons of issues with clipping and collisions actually. The geometry for collisions is almost always handled by having a few axis-aligned rectangles. Street Fighter 4 doesn't have more details in collision geometry than Street Fighter 2. I can't recall any non-abstract game with silhouette-accurate collision, and whether silhouette-accurate collision would even make sense depends on the art style, the usually implied 3D means that overlapping silhouettes don't always seem to actually touch (think of characters in a fighting games standing close to each other), so that type of accuracy would feel rather wrong.

Yeah, but is that camera-dependent?

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the slippery slope fallacy is supposed to refer to something like
and not

the first one can be simplified to
where A and B are completely unrelated
it is not an example of the slippery slope fallacy
the second one, which IS an example of the fallacy can be simplified as such.

wrong, story is
>>>/pleb/

cry me a river, build a bridge, and hang yourself from it

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To think how much we can upgrade old games into looking much more like modern titles in the graphical department (Morrowind, FS2, even Minecraft), it quickly shows how lazy and wasteful game devs seem to be these days - or maybe they are actually running on shoe-string budgets with 90% going for advertisements, payoffs and all other forms of corruption.

I don't think that's entirely necessary, thinking back at the hundreds of games that came out all using the Unreal Engine (1) in 1999-2001, however if developer teams would share more of a knowledge base, a pool of knowledge so that if one developer fixes or implements a good basic feature, all other game devs could make (free) use of it so the shared engine continues to improve and evolve based on the needs of the various developer teams across companies. It could lead to a greater amount of efficiency and less day 1 glitches and issues.
But maybe I'm thinking a little too optimistically.

go look at through rogue basin for some nice advancements of software.

check ur casual aswell

You're right. It is a problem. And I'm sure it would be fixed by now, were the gaming industry focused on it. But they have a lot of other big issues going on right now. The gaming market is competitive and has a lot going on right now. Clipping in games right now is likeable to video game companies running through the woods and clipping bushes along the way.

The only hope is game engines evolving to the point of auto-eliminating clipping by themselves.

Is that the excuse you tell your mother whenever she catches you on this inappropriate website?