US Congress is seriously trying to move their Israeli embassy to Jeresulum

US Congress is seriously trying to move their Israeli embassy to Jeresulum.
telesurtv.net/english/news/New-US-Congress-Files-Bill-to-Realize-Israels-Jerusalem-Dream-20170104-0026.html

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=VS7ZBff9MGk
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_Front_for_the_Liberation_of_Palestine#Attitude_to_the_peace_process
4threvolutionarywar.wordpress.com/2016/06/27/the-iranian-precursors-of-the-fourth-political-theory-eugene-montsalvat/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

This is good. Let them move it there. It will cause the Palestinians to go into panic mode and radicalize them. Perhaps this could even be the start of a Fourth Intifada.

FTFY

National liberation comes first.

not sure if porky or maoist-turd worldist
not that there's much of a difference

I have to ask how many of these SJP and garden-variety BDSers will remain loyal to the Palestinian struggle when/if the Palestinians by in large decide they'd rather have Hamas or some other reactionary group as their leaders rather than Fatah or anything leftist or progressive. Most leftists today don't want to admit that Zionism used to have a good amount of support on the far-left up until 1967 when the US began pouring weapons and military aid into Israel and the USSR began supporting the Palestinians and other Ba'athists.

Did it? I honestly have no idea, can you give me some sources?

sad!

What's the point and why does it matter?

Most Muslims aren't class conscious in the least. They understand their oppression as entirely religious or nationality-based.

Yeah, I'm incredibly annoyed by it too. You may not support Israeli politics and that's perfectly fine and understandable, but to turn around and support Palestinia is just plain retarded. Palestinians are not romantic freedom fighters resisting imperial struggle, no, they're led by Hamas (by choice) and largely funded by Europe and Islamic interests in the Middle East, especially the Arab League. The whole Palestinian refugee crisis has been manufactured by the UN in the first plcae, for crying out loud. The enemy of your enemy is not your friend - you know who thinks like that? US Intelligence.

The left will abandon the Palestinians for the same reason it abandoned the Jews decades ago: as soon as their national liberation struggle no longer serves a radical leftist agenda, and more Palestinians flock to Hamas and other reactionaries, they're be denounced as enemies and aids of capitalism.

A lot of Palestinians in the diaspora are left-wing and several of them are tankies (look at Rania Khalek and her fangirling of Assad). But many Palestinians in Palestine are very right-wing and prefer some kind of Arab traditionalism to outright socialism. The PFLP is allegedly the third largest Palestinian party, but what have they done in the past 30 years of note? Fatah is allegedly full of leftist factions, but again, what are they doing?

It's also funny, because the most left-wing Palestinian cities are also the most CHRISTIAN, i.e. Bethlehem and Beit Jala.

You omitted who chose Hamas to lead the Palestinians. It was Mossad who provided Hamas with funding and eliminated their opposition, the same way that the CIA and FBI destroyed the Black Panthers and propped up the Crips.

Sure, but it doesn't matter how much money Mossad pumped into Hamas 20 years ago. The fact is Hamas wouldn't have power without tremendous support from the general Palestinian populace.

I thought we were against the two-state solution. Doesn't moving the embassy to al-Quds mean the one-state solution is the reality?

if by "we" you mean The U.S. then America has always officially supported a 2 state solution.

I don't see how this is a big deal. Jerusalem is the historical capital of Israel. Regardless if Muslims or Jews control the city it is the capital

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Palestinians voted for Hamas because Hamas were seen as the LEAST corrupt of all the Palestinian parties. The PFLP was basically a Soviet proxy.

I guess you were talking of the guys in the pic.

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Before anyone comments about this the Roman Salute is common practice among many of the armed factions in the Levant. I suspect the reason is not as simple as "they all hate the Jews and want the imitate the Nazis".

Good, two states solution revealed itself as a joke since the six days war a long time ago, and speeches of tolerance and acceptance have done nothing but radicalize the arabs even more.

I didn't comment my opinion on the matter, I just said Roman salutes are common among the armed factions in the Levant, also that pic was of the PFLP not a Ba'athist or Islamist faction.

Clearly they are not fascists. They are progressive Arab intellectuals with tertiary education.

The PFLP aren't fascists. It just doesn't have the same cultural connotations as it does in the West.

I'm getting a serious Jason Unruhe/tankie vibe from this image.

It looks cheesy admittedly.

kys

Or this:
youtube.com/watch?v=VS7ZBff9MGk

Holla Forums called this the "most dindu of all dindu videos".

It has exactly the same connotations as it does in the west, as does patriarchal subjugation of families, theocracy, and arabocentrism, which are all values as abhorrent in the rest of the world as they are in the west.
The left double standard regarding fascism is unacceptable, especially when you preach international brotherhood beyond cultural differences.

What if the Palestinians WANT a patriarchal family structure, free market capitalism, a gold standard, and an ethno-state of their own? Who are westerners to deny them this?

The PLFP is a secular M-L org last time I checked.

Its shit tbqh.
Yeah the shit "ones" like Stalin did but many like Lenin didn't, its also funny that American Jews didn't like the idea of it originally either until it was shilled hard there.


How are they not fighting against imperialism when Israel is a fucking openly colonialist state, which actively is demolishing Palestinian homes, carving up land that is recognized internationally as part of Palestine in the Israeli's colonialist mission to drive them off the lands they have lived on for centuries.


Zionist aren't any better in this regard and one could even consider them to be worse when it comes to inherently right wing views, when the leftwing zionists (labour zionists) who used to be little more than just a cesspool of fascists that spawned bial such as the Movement for Greater Israel. This "left-wing" section of the movement did eventually try to bury their fascism, they instead decided to adopt capitalism friendly stances that even at times go into neoliberalism. This is as "left" as the inherently nationalistic zionist movement goes, as you go more and more right when it comes to zionism you start to getting into genocidal world views.

No. It actually doesn't. It's a call back to the early Arab conquests when Umar I conquered the Levant from the Byzantines. The Arabs in the region came to see themselves as an extension of the Roman empire.

Don't forget Marx himself was fairly condemning of Zionism too, the left as a whole was only really marginally pro Zionist for a short period after ww2.

BDS has become the primary form of Palestine solidarity activism among radicals in the west.

The Soviets came out against Zionism, but there were many leftist factions who showed some support. Either way, no one gave two shits about the Palestinians until the Soviets began backing Palestinian resistance movements.

American Jews had nuanced views on Israel until after '67, but that's pretty much common knowledge.

No one said they were. The point is, Palestinians do not exist to serve the interests of the far-left. The western left can't dictate what a national liberation movement "ought" to be and expect people X number of kilometres away working in an entirely different cultural context to comply. If the Palestinians decide they want islamists and other reactionaries to be their leaders, and sincerely want a capitalist system as opposed to a proletarian one, would you or anyone else on the left agree, or would you be critical? That's my point.

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Zionism wasn't a thing when Marx was alive though. That's kind of ahistorical but yes Marx didn't care much for his Jewish roots.

Kek never implied that. Regardless suicide bombers and civilian casualties aren't what constitutes fascism.

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Then don't come telling me that they're proletarian brothers who share your struggle. You hold a point of view which sees them as savages with fundamentally different interests than you, but you are unwilling to object on the morality of their ways because of national borders. It's way more racist to think it that way than to just admit they shouldn't be condoned for their abhorrent right denying values.

Internationalism doesn't go together with ethnostatism. You can claim western values are ethnocentric but that would be wrong, the core of liberal (french revolutionary) values are still valid today: no arbitrary cultural values are more valid than the other, no religion is truer, all we can strive to guarantee are individual rights. By tying up all of the islamic world into a unique nation with special dispenses for violating human rights you dehumanize all of them, and you do a great disfavor to those who would just want to live freely from those impositions


the Roman attribution of the Roman salute is VERY dubious. After 1945 there's only one reason you would do it, you too are giving special treatement to them because you don't admit we share the same moral compass as them and that we (westerners) have political responsability in their situation

This is what I was getting at in the posts I made above: how many white liberals and college campus activists will stand with Palestine unconditionally if the Palestinian struggle takes on an inherently reactionary character in the form of religious fundamentalism (which you already see with Hamas), bourgeois nationalism, or Evola-tier traditionalism?

Or even worse: what if the Palestinians decide they'll take the two-state solution and no longer fight Israel once the '67 occupation ends? How many MLs or Maoists or angry anarchists will say, "Fuck 'em, they've sold our, they're enemies of anti-imperialism now"?

The point is that the left has a nasty habit of using other people as pawns without giving thought as to how those people truly feel about their situation.

That would be interesting admittedly, I am not sure how much I'd approve. I know a the Iranian Shia Islamists were very much influenced by Heidegger which is probably why this image exists.

It is also interesting to note that the PLFP is more leftwing than any of the "left" zionism movements.

Also their aims overall have always been quite good tbh.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_Front_for_the_Liberation_of_Palestine#Attitude_to_the_peace_process

Source for this? I'm not doubting, I'm just interested.

The PFLP may have good intentions, but they hardly have the amount of support Hamas and Fatah have, and at this point the notion that the Palestinian struggle will take on a socialist character seems highly unlikely.

4threvolutionarywar.wordpress.com/2016/06/27/the-iranian-precursors-of-the-fourth-political-theory-eugene-montsalvat/

Most leftist who support Palestine are conscious of this, but the argument they apply is the usual "enemy of my enemy". I've seen it brought to further extremes with leftists condoning ISIS, because it is a normal reaction to western imperialism, or leftists supporting Putin because he's not a USA puppet. These arguments are made from a sheltered and muh privileged point of view where these actors are not threatening your rights, and it assumes that people who are forced into subjugation under these people are not as worthy as westerners are because they certainly don't recognize individuality as a core value.
It's a blind point of view, especially after a whole century of worldwide american propaganda. Every single person knows of core individual values, somebody hate them in reaction to the threatening of their authoritarian rule, but I still think most people, in the west or not, recognize them as desirable. By letting the ethnocentrist prevale, with the excuse of self-determination and non interference we show that these values, which would be universal in accord to their greater cultural consciousness, are really just an imperialistic tool of propaganda, against which the ethnonationalists would seem to be winning.

I probably pass off as a neocon with these arguments, but I really believe that if your cultural rules have more importance than some set of arbitrary good manners rule on top of a core of respect for other individuals, you're being misled.

Oh wow color me shocked.

Yeah, Iran always struck me as very national-syndicalist/turd position with a Shia Islamic twist. I know Dugin likes Shias and is close friends with an Azeri(?) Shia cleric.

I see. So you would advocate something along the lines of "critical support" for reactionary but national liberationist movements?

My geopolitical solutions are rather silly
honestly I don't know how Israel should be fixed. I am undecided between deportation of palestinians to neighboring arabic countries, or going full groznji on theocratic leadership and integrating palestinian people into a jewish led single state. I say to keep the jewish state and not deport the jews because Israel already is a fully functioning 1st world economy with an efficient political organization, while Palestine is only recognized as a nation to troll the Israeli, but there's hardly any economical/political apparatus to grant them that, and the Palestinian identity is not really discernable from other levantine arab ones.
Part of the palestinians could resettle in Jordan, Syria, Egypt, and Lebanon, a remaing share could integrate into a multicultural Israel, once Israeli politics are lifted from the constant state of unrest cause by the two state solution, and the electorate can shift into a less nationalist consensus