If we are to unite the left, I think we should be prioritizing all the things we have in common instead of just throwing everyone into a so-called "non-sectarian" group. What are some key opinions we all share on the left?
Obviously, anti-capitalism.
Dylan Cooper
That's literally it. The left is so fractious that on every other issue people will find some disagreement. But you know what? That's enough. Anti-capitalism is all we need to stand in solidarity together, as long as that dragon still needs slaying. The real work isn't finding what we have in common, it's effectively using what we all have together to put it down. And what that requires is recognizing, accepting, and incorporating into our strategy the ways we are different.
Aaron Sullivan
why not one step further and say we want to abolish money? Even monarchists are anti-capitalists…
Gavin Gray
We should be prioritizing all the things some of us have in common.
I'd like to point it out: some Anarchists (and some Marxists of revisionist variety - Mensheviks, for example) refuse to support Revolution, unless they get full-fledged Socialist state before Revolution. We can cooperate with those people only within SocDem framework.
Therefore, some key concepts should be defined.
Anthony Mitchell
Nah, I think people will inevitably try to control the group so that the group can focus on the "right" form of anti-capitalism, which obviously is their personal form of anti-capitalism, for the group's "own good." The path to left unity is to explicitly work on everything at once. Possibly fill the group's national assembly using STV for somewhat proportional leadership and then give the 10 largest caucuses within the leadership control over a 10th of the budget each.
Grayson Brown
Isn't achieving a stateless, classless society was also a common goal?
I was referring primarily to revolutionary socialists. We have the most infighting problems, I feel.
Isaiah Hughes
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Owen Martin
Should work out fine then.
Connor Morgan
:^)
Liam Rodriguez
Are their differences in anti-capitalist thought, though? I always thought all socialists viewed capitalism through the same lens, so to speak.
Plus, the main point of left unity, in my view, is to stop useless infighting and to get people educating liberals and others about the problems capitalism together.
Grayson Torres
We can work out our differences after capitalism has been dismantled, don't you think? I'd rather have tankies temporarily take over the world (as unrealistic as that is) than capitalism continue its reign. A worldwide revolution would raise class consciousness to untold levels, and should the tankies betray their allies and fuck the working class over, they would eventually be overthrown, as a worldwide revolution has to end with the most compatible doctrine.
My idea is really that the left should work together for a revolution, and afterwards agree not to militarily interfere against each other. Akin to natural selection, whatever form of socialism collapses internally, reverts back to capitalism, don't transition to communism etc. is proven a failure, and so on.
Dylan Wilson
Well if half of us think that the way the other half wants to abolish capitalism is useless at best counter-productive at worst of course they're going to try to take command of whatever organization is formed and direct it in the "right" direction instead, and having done so the people who think the NEW direction is useless at best counter-productive at worst is going to fuck off to somewhere they believe they can actually accomplish something productive.
Logan Kelly
That's an interesting point. Also, that realization in itself kind of defeats the purpose of infighting, in a way.
Christian Price
I think abolishing the capitalist class should be a much more immediate goal.
Leo Jackson
But then the tankies will just kill all the other leftists and then when they collapse, no one will be there to stop capitalism from coming back.
Daniel Reed
Of course, the way the revolution will be handled is quite controversial. What I would like to see, though, is a unified attempt by the left to educate others about the contradictions of capitalism. I don't think ML's or Anarchists have a different opinion on capitalism and have basically the same criticisms. Plus, however the revolution manifests itself, we will need a large base of people with anti capitalist sentiments anyway, so it's a win for everyone involved.
Connor Brown
Tankies will be the ones to bring back capitalism, state capitalism is still capitalism.
Nolan Lewis
I think a worldwide tankie revolution is kind of a joke, though. I don't think many people with left tendencies will turn to authoritarianism nowadays.
Easton Kelly
If tankies, who have had their legacy shat upon by history, propaganda, and the overall will to be free, somehow manage to defeat opposition from both socialists and liberals, then conquer the entire world, that could possibly happen. It's still a long shot from what could actually happen and they are still allies in toppling capitalism.
Jackson Martin
You know what I meant, and you're missing my point. Obviously we should rally around the most liberal ideology, in the sense of most permissive to other view points, which still eliminates the material conditions for capitalism as it exists today. Afterwards, we can duke it out among ourselves.
Hudson Green
There are surely people who disagree on statelessness and probably even classlessness.
Jacob Howard
What does that cartoon even mean? A worker slacking off makes Porky happy, but a worker hard at work makes him scared?
Ryder Long
tragically underrated post
Dylan Young
Would you mind elaborating on your non-capitalist state and non-joke revolution?
Landon Richardson
Marxist unity? Yes. Marxist and Anarchist unity? No.
How about you leeches get off your ass and actually do something instead of talking about doing shit? Oh that's right you wont because the first world isn't r e v o l u t i o n a r y
Julian Jenkins
KEK
Josiah Richardson
Nothing at all.
Isaac White
Well, I have no doubts aforementioned Anarchist thinks himself both Revolutionary and Socialist.
Thus, the first question would be to define Revolutionary.
Does this Revolutionary include "Revolutionary in theory", or should we limit ourselves to people who both consider Revolution applicable in current circumstances and accept the need to use realistic measures to make it happen?
Robert Barnes
Muh "healthcare" Muh "education" Muh "don't beat that slave"
Jaxson Taylor
maybe your right, we can achieve great things with millions of unwilling conscripts, slave labor, political repression and mass executions. Maybe thats what Marx wanted
Grayson Wilson
It does not matter to us. Ideological purity without any worldwide leftist mass movements is all that is needed to destroy any semblance of solidarity within the left. Easy and we barely have to lift a finger.
Nicholas Harris
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Adam Martinez
No, fuck this. The whole left right shit was fucking stupid from the beginning and should have died with Emperor Napoleon. There's no fucking way you're going to tell me to unify with socdems, tankies, or anarkiddies.
Austin Martinez
Do not pretend that revolution will be free from said bloodshed. Not a ML, but don't bring your bourgeoisie morals into this. Whatever capitalism has committed is far worse than what Stalin has or has not done.
Benjamin Nelson
Spooky
Nolan Price
The devil is right. Never forget the paris commune.
Only if you're completely insane. I'd rather have the current somewhat peaceful capitalist system than a literal reign of terror that I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people on Holla Forums won't make it out alive once commissar Cletus and Jamal finds your iphone, ipad, or macbook and checks your trash for starbucks latte empty cups and receipts.
Nicholas Adams
> I'd rather have the current somewhat peaceful capitalist system
And then they ask why tankies have to kill all other "leftists".
Isaiah Jenkins
Ok you can stop posting now.
Christian Ortiz
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Ethan Morgan
Factual inaccuracy aside, fucking kill yourself. I challenge anyone to show me a form of socialism that's worse than the current capitalist system. We all have to stand together to knock down capitalism. We can sort out our differences once we've settled what we agree on. It would quite possibly come to blows but at that point at least people wouldn't be fighting for abstract profit.
Jacob Powell
Fascists, ultranationalists, monarchists and other far right groups are against capitalism as well. Hell even bland nationalists in Europe have an anti free trade approach
Michael Martinez
Ohh yeah can't wait to get assraped by tankies again left unity is a meme
Jordan Jenkins
anti-racism
pro-sensible gun ownership
anti-capitalist
anti-hegemony
anti-imperialism
pro-environment
anti-manufacturing consent
pro-labor organization outside of politics
anti-protest (impotence)
anti-IdPol
John Campbell
Kill yourself.
Carson Myers
Lmao i have never ever met a communist who wasn't pro gun ownership
We have pro-gun ownership threads on here on a semi-weekly basis. when i say sensible i mean that the average prole shouldn't have access to .50 caliber mounted machine guns or rocket propelled grenades. Assault Weapons are debatable. Rifles, pistols and shotguns should be freely available to the general public from age 18 up
Juan Scott
He's almost certainly objecting to which is liberal speak for "let us use this tragedy to force gun control"
Benjamin Jones
Fuck, should have read the rest of your post before replying.
Elijah Moore
It seems to me that workplace democracy is the basic thing we should agree on, however we conceptualize it. Liberals can be persuaded to this much easier if it doesn't involve marxist theory.
Camden Cook
Pitching communism is a way they will find acceptable is one thing, but that's not what you're advocating here.