Age of consent thread

In reality, no.

In fantasy, sure. Also shes 14.

No sex thank you very much

How old is Rodina?

Its a cartoon character.

Spook

Its actually a law that is collectively enforced to secure the safety of the people we care about.

Also fucking kids is icky, they are not attractive at all, you degenerate

spook

Learn what a spook is before memeing, edgelord.

Law is literally a spook dude

t. Stirnerprro

At whatever age they can concent the implications of what sex and concent to it.

Toddlers can concent but they dont really understand what they would be concenting to.

Same for probably less than 10 year olds really.

...

...

To truly combat pedophilia et al we need to reject ideological power relations that create these kinds of toxic relationships.

We don't need this bullshit to prevent actual sexual child abuse.

Law making age of consent violates the NAP

Nice meme, but you'll discover it's not in conflict with what I'm saying.
We as a society decide for ourselves whether we approve of pedophilia or homosexuality. That's the way it's always been.

...

Seconded

16

The only reason age of consent exists is because of the spook that sex is a big deal, the spooks of "virginity" and "purity" and all that need to be disposed of. It's literally just penis in vagina.

more liek spook of consent am i right?

4 or 5 tbh.

Nobody is going to buy into your free use fantasies, mate.

Last one digit of my post.

...

Prude pride worldwide.

All sex is negative and should be outlawed by order of the commissar.

This, SWERFs should be ashamed of themselves.

Oh boy, are you ever new here!

...

Shit. Well, two out of three isn't bad.

I don't know where you're getting this from. I'd like a pure virgin girlfriend, but I don't see any need to make laws based on that.

Bottom line, age of consent should be based on biology. Anyone who isn't an actual full retard should be well capable of comprehending sex by the time they start wanting it. As long as they can pass sex ed, which is given around that time, they're good to go.

Considering that there are people who've gotten PhDs at 20, I doubt that's a hard-and-fast rule that applies to everyone, but even if it was, you don't have to be a Nobel laureate rocket scientist or Fields Medalist mathematician to consent to sex.

I swear we have had 3 of these threads in this week alone.

3 threads a week isn't bad. At least it's not 3 a day.

Ideally there should be a way to identify if someone is capable of physically handling sex and has the mental capacity to give a valid consent. Age based laws are arbitrary. Problem is even my system is a bit arbitrary as far as mental capacity goes but it's much better than generalizing if there is a way to measure such things. I suppose the most realistically applicable version of this though is something similar to the new consent laws Turkey did that many complained about which is where there is two consent ages. One that is a normal consent age and another lower one that is a case by case basis of if it is acceptable. I also think minors old enough for jail should be charged for breaking consent laws.

I like the current law we have. 14 for straightfags, 16 for fagsfags.
Why the diference? Because an adult fag might try to manipulate a teen into beliving he's a fag in order to have sex with him.

These threads never go anywhere because the board varies on whether or not to even have a state, therefore whether AoC is even a relevant concept depends. It's like getting evangelicals and liberals to argue about abortion. They're coming at it with different assumptions, which makes their points of view irreconcilable.

But it's still nice to have a nice talk about it. Honestly i would just like to understand better the pedo people perpesctives. But instead they just post pics of sexualized anime kids :(

Excluding sociopaths I think I've seen arguments from them before that most of the trauma from kids having sex is from making them go through the judicial process to sentence someone and how they are taught having sex is bad at their age and they did it with a bad person. So in short they argue that societal norms is what makes it bad.

This is the case on more than just Holla Forums. I've seen it on Holla Forums as well, and even on other sites (and of course Holla Forums and even Holla Forums have no shortage of it). I think it may be the new hot topic of social discussion. Honestly it should have been seriously discussed long, long, LONG before now. Like multiple decades ago. 18 is completely fucking insane, and even 16 is too high. It was made that way by a coalition of Christofascists, unfuckable shrieking feminists, and a corporate government that always wants more and more control. I've even read people talking about how they've seen feminists calling attraction to 18-year-olds pedo in recent weeks. I don't know if that's true because I don't normally pay attention to what social media does, but given the increase in this discussion it wouldn't surprise me. Most guys like 18-year-olds, and they may feel enough resentment at being called pedos for it to look into the subject and discover that they were being lied to.

Even as someone who ardently supports lowering the AoC though, I see something significant missing from these threads, and that's discussion of how the issue is related to other important political issues. I think Trump and his people want to push the idea that the left is supporting pedophilia in order to completely discredit it forever, but they're missing the fact that most of the population (and more generally most of the planet) fucking despises Trump, especially after his cabinet selections. We also have CNN trying to accuse Julian Assange of being a pedo because he made them look like idiots. It's the political equivalent of a nuke, and it's being deployed by the bourgeoisie because they have nothing else left. Nobody buys the "muh terrorists" excuse for government overreach anymore, so they're going to start accusing everyone who disagrees with the neoliberal capitalist order of being pedos in order to shut up any criticism, and they're also going to start using it as an excuse to attack countries where the AoC is lower than 18, militarily, economically or both, if those countries happen to have resources that the bourgeoisie want.

Fair enough. Still not gonna bump the thread.

The fucked up thing about that is they're not wrong that social context is harmful that way. What's wrong about that argument is that they assert it's all that is harmful. The reason this is fucked up is that because pedos use this as their excuse, if you try to address the way we treat sex in general, rape specifically, and rape of children even more specifically, people associate questioning these cultural norms with pedo apologists and the rational part of their brain shuts off. Ultimately, pedo-apologists function not to normalize pedophilia or to change the way people look at sex, but instead they protect the status quo from critique. And the status quo I'm referring to is the notions that sex is dirty, rape victims are dirtied, etc.

So USA is going to invade most european countries? because in most european countries the AoC is lower than 18.

How are societal norms not all that is harmful? Are the other ways in which it is harmful exclusive to children, or do adults experience the same harm?

Why do ugly incels care about lowering the age of consent so much? Do you think you'll have a chance with a 15y/o? Fucking incels, why are so disgusting?

20, you fucking pedos.

True. Adults can manipulate inexperienced childs to have sex with them.
This is my biggest concern regarding pedos

I will admit I think it's kind of mind-blowing how dudes who beat off to pictures that 16 year olds took of themselves (not even nudes) are considered pedos. Like do you think maybe if they're taking pictures of themselves doing sexy poses that might be indicative of something? Like maybe sexual agency?

Accusing him of just regular rape wasn't enough? I haven't heard them doing this yet.

Uh huh. The first part I could believe to an extent until they hit the point where they cry wolf too many times. The second part is ridiculous. Nobody gives enough of a shit about the kids in those countries. If they did there would be an uproar over civilian deaths from the bombings.

Aside from the physical damage done to the really young kids, there's the whole thing where they're imprinting their understanding of how sexual relationships work and with an adult there's inherently a massive power disparity. They're having formative sexual experiences involving at minimum the threat of coercion and likely actual coercion by the other.
Not the same, but similar harm from the original idea of sexual harassment, where power disparities coerce people to do things they normally wouldn't to preserve their job. With kids you get the added effect I explained above where they're highly receptive because their identity is at an important developmental stage, and this sort of relationship will imprint on them as being normal, which will likely lead to them habitually getting into more of the same relationships, either as the victim or as a predator creating new victims (cycle of abuse).

The mode of attack will vary by country. You can expect to see American-backed groups in both European countries and elsewhere lobbying to raise the AoC to at least 16. With regards to European countries specifically, beyond that lobbying, it'll depend on what Russia does. Trump appears to want to normalize relations with them, but it may not work out that way given Trump's penchant for pissing other countries off, and if it doesn't, Russia will go right back to attempting to extend their influence over Europe. You can expect to see the issue come up in the resulting propaganda war.

Elsewhere, feminists are already talking about forced marriage in Bangladesh and saying they should raise the AoC because of it, ignoring that one doesn't have anything to do with the other. They previously used prostitution of young girls in a similar way, ignoring that people being forced into prostitution has everything to do with economics and nothing to do with age, because as Clinton and her sycophants have shown us, feminists don't want to discuss economic class.

As for non-Western-aligned countries like China, where the AoC is 14, Trump is already gearing up for a trade war with them, which stands a very good chance of leading to a real war. Anyone who doesn't think their AoC will come up in Trump's condemnation of them is kidding themselves. America is notorious for attempting to force its "culture" on the rest of the world, and even in these threads there have been "leftists" who approve of such measures. The situation is ripe for a new war economy that derives its propaganda base from cultural issues, and "let's go kill us some pedos" is a good way to get masses of retards to enlist in the US military to go invade places that have nothing to do with them. Of course, being retarded as they are they'll probably get BTFO by a united alliance of every country that's sick of America's shit, which is basically the entire rest of the world.

The argument wasnt pro rape though. It could be used that way but from where I saw it they only spoke of consensual sex. I'm not sure if it implied all consent or only consent from a kid that understands the implications.. Actually it might not have been a pedo I saw say it but a psychologist or sociologist perhaps. I don't really remember where I saw it if it was an article or a blog post. It would also be true of kids having sex with kids though. If a kid has sex with a kid they are not only taught they shouldn't have some are taught they are a bad person for it. In the case of a kid having sex with an adult they are taught they are a victim even in cases of if they wanted it and liked it and had those same opinions continue into their adultood. I actually have spoken with a few people that claimed they had sex as a child either with another child or an adult and some feel bad about it and are traumatized but some look back fondly on it. But this doesnt sound like a huge difference from people having early sexual experiences at an older age as well. So although I don't really like the thought of someone having sex with a 5 year old or something I don't really know what to make of it in cases where they grow up and are fine with it. I can't just invalidate their experience and opinions from me not liking it and it not fitting cultural norms. So this leaves a complicated philosophical moral dilemma. I suppose what would help would be some statistics of childhood sexual experiences from various cultures to see how much age and society play a role. But even with averages that does not tell you anything about the individuals capacity. So like I've pointed out in an earlier post guidelines of what is and is not a valid consent from cognitive understanding are important to figure out so more than just age and future psychological states should be looked at.

I don't understand your conclusion how it protects the status quo. Could you elaborate?

Why do ugly feminists care about keeping the age of consent at 18 so much? Do they think they'll have a chance with guys? Fucking feminists, why are you so disgusting?

I fucked a 14yo girl in Spain. Ask me anything.

Almost all answers in this thread will be useless, because they follow some variation of
This is excellent beacuse not everyone subscribes to Stirner's ideology (>implying there is a self), and it adds nothing to the discussion, as there's nothing necessarily wrong with having spooks. It puts forward no solution to preventing abuse or living in a society with people of a range of ages

or

Problematic beacuse: (1) not backed up by any data, and is usually based on some pre-conecived notion as to who can consent or not (2) susceptible to personal opinion or conceptions of morality (e.g modern Christian "no sex before marriage" stuff) rather than taking into account the interest of the parties engaging in the act

Problematic beacuse this is frequently a tactic used to shut down any discussion of issues regarding children and sex, and it usually carries with it the assumptions (1) that anyone challenging the AoC must have pedophilic tendencies or supporting such tendencies or (2) that pedophilia is necessarily wrong (it also implicates those who do not act on their desires)

Problematic because it almost always comes from people who don't understand that it's possible to have relationships without a power dynamic which establishes that someone impressionable (such as a child) as someone to follow orders.
On the other hand, some people can't seem to understand that during identity formation actions and experiences become imprinted which manifest later in life as similar actions as

As said, people are coming at this problem, just as almost any other problem that's a combination of legislation and rights, with different starting assumptions, including but not limited to:
etc.

Reminder, changing the AoC isn't about wanting to fuck kids any more than campaigning for free speech is about wanting to be a naz.i

Remember kids, don't reply to spookposters!

I think I heard somewhere that feminists were who pushed the age of consent up to 18 when it used to be lower to try to eliminate teenage pregnancy so girls could finish school and also so they wont harm capitalism by having to take time off work being pregnant.

I think I've said this before, but the simple test would be whether a person, regardless of age understands what they are doing and wants in on it. It could be said that stupid kids will fuck the wrong person (I don't even know what that means), but kids already do that. Fuck, my first GF was older than me and wasn't the best I could do. Is that rape because I don't think fondly back on it? No. People place too much value on sex and there just isn't any to be had. It's just sex.

I hate feminists as much as the next red-blooded egalitarian, but given that they'll eventually get maternity leave anyway at some point that doesn't sound right to me. Either way, we have much more effective birth control now, so it's kind of a moot point.

Why are there so many fucking pedophiles on here?

I don't give a fuck about Stimer and I was who said it should be based on an individuals capacity to consent instead of a generalization of ages. If you want to go by generalizations you might as well make the AoC be different for different classes so the working class cant have sex till they are 25 because they are less educated than the bourgeois.

Better yet, you can't have sex with someone richer than you because muh power dynamics.

Learn your pronouns, it is called Pedosexual.

Minors are paid less though so getting cheap labour from minors is important for profits.

Because it's an anonymous image board and people don't need to be afraid of speaking their minds here.
The same reason why there is a ton of fucking nazis on Holla Forums and other boards.

In my country it is 14…

And I now agree with it. I used to think the old law (when it was 18) was better, but then I realized that the only thing it did was turn large parts of the population criminals, including my family (my grandma married when she was 14, and my mom started to date my dad when she was 15, and he is much older).

The later people marry, the more they are not influenced by their partners… many people consider this a good thing, promotes independence and whatnot.

The problem this also promotes endless conflicts, for people to share a house, they must do many things in a way that they agree, high age of consent, and the promotion of late marriage, is making relationships unstable, we have now lots of marriages with both partners in their 30s, this is too late, they can't teach stuff to each other anymore, brain structures at this point are also mostly "solidified", this only leads to endless conflict.

Yes, can a 25 year old guy manipulate a 14 year old girl?

Yes… but for most of earth history, that not only was normal, but was expected, until her 14s, a girl would be taught by her family, but after she found a partner, she would be taught by that partner, lean that partner values and so on, so the children could be similarly taught.

Nature even made this viable for men too, taking account the usual relationship age difference: a men brain only stops changing around 27 years old, until then his partners also change his values, it wasn't unheard for males to change their religion for example, the bible warns about this (the bible explicitly warns men against having women of other religions), and there is plenty of research that show that women tend to be more steadfast in their religion and more spiritual, but houses with mixed religion doesn't work, but even if the guy is 27, and his partner 14, it was still possible for the 14, even if easily manipulated, to end making the 27 year old guy to change his religion to match hers.

Now we have those houses where both partners married after 30, believe in wildly different things, eat different things, sometimes have opposite political opinions, and when the time comes to raise kids, it just crashes down as they can't agree on how to do it. (nevermind resentment and jealously of perceived favoritism, for example if some kid choose to follow exclusively one parent religion over another, making the parent and that kid grow closer and exclude the other parent).

Feels bad man. Disabled people can't consent.

I consider early marriage in certain societies as very different from Westerners that push lowering the aoc

The whole question of age of consent revolves around whether or not someone can consent, so right off the bet I'm all but dead certain you're totally not a pedo apologist. That and the other longish posts carry an undercurrent of that theme. Let's test my intuition with the rest of this post.

Yeah but the thing is it isn't consent if you don't understand the implications. Take that and add the idea that people mature along a schedule according to age and there you have the concept of age of consent.

There's nothing stopping a pedo from being a psychologist or sociologist, but you wouldn't have to be a pedo to make the argument that there's no inherent harm in fucking a kid, just an apologist.

In the case of an adult fucking the kid, they will learn indirectly that they're tainted because other people will view them differently after it's found out. Learning and teaching culture is far more complex than you're suggesting.

Here's a hint: the reason why most people will say AoC is bullshit is because they know that individual variation is a thing, and that people will be ready for different things at different ages. Without knowing what ages you're talking about or the personalities of the people involved, this statement is vague to the point of being meaningless. And Stockholm Syndrome is a thing that happens, which really should be one of the first things you think of when talking about kids being fond of an adult who fucked them.

FIVE YEAR OLD?
At that age you are likely talking serious physical injury. If I were to entertain the notion that a five year old could consent to sex, we would be entering BDSM territory with that kind of discrepancy in size, strength, and durability (emotionally as well as physically). People are really good at coping with horrible things that happen to them because the ones that weren't got outcompeted in evolution. Part of that sometimes includes rewriting traumatic experiences as positive or non-harmful ones. Get a fucking grip. Why are you listening to the people who are telling you getting fucked as a kid was a good experience and brushing off the ones who think it wasn't?

I guess if a kid did heroin at five and then looks back on the memory fondly you're gonna listen to them instead of the other ones who are telling you it was bad for them. Or if an adult tells you that their parents beating the shit out of them was a good experience you will feel compelled to agree.

This would seem reasonable if you didn't say earlier "Gee whiz guys, sometimes five year olds look back on getting fucked with fondness, so maybe it's not so bad after all." In context, I get the impression you're going for the "Four parts sense, one part bullshit" strategy to win people over.

Not for you.

>>>/reddit/

mfw people can't understand wanting to fuck kids or teens as an adult is fucking disgusting and shouldn't be thought of as a good thing.

...

16

Don't forget racial power imbalances. No interracial sex allowed.

You might get pregnant and you might get an STD. Or you might decide that whoever you did it with wasn't really right for you.

HOLY SHIT THAT WAS SO DIFFICULT YOU HAVE TO BE 18 TO UNDERSTAND IT.

But that's objectively wrong. Case in point: You and your stupid arguments are less mature than I was at 14. We should probably take away your right to consent to sex because you're obviously too immature.

...

>>>/suicide/

???

Men should go to jail for sex with women because also power dynamics.

How about morals and ethics?
I'd rather not fuck a kid because they're far too young

...

That both are equally wrong?
They're the same thing but in different times and eventually it'll be allowed?
Fucking hope not mate.

Let's just hope you're not speaking from your own experience.

Of course only a retard would try to put its dick in a little girl's pussy. But little girls have a mouth and you also have a tongue, you know…

And here in Exhibit A, we witness the fact that ephebophobes can't do basic math.

I wonder what surprises Exhibit B will have? Probably a feminist mod deleting that post to avoid embarrassing her side.

Well, I'm not a pedo.
I haven't been raped.
I'm just saying pedophillia is clearly wrong and the age of consent exists to protect children, they cant logically decide like an adult would seeing as they dont fully understand.

still sex, which is bad, just leave the kids alone

There's a lot more to sex than just that. There's a whole suite of emotional responses that go along with it, including forming attachments.

I didn't say it was right, just that it's how you get the concept of AoC. This is obvious to anyone can conceive of entertaining an idea without agreeing with it, or if you read the rest of the post since I explain why this is wrong further down.

You don't have to lie about your age on Holla Forums, it's open to people below 18 kiddo.

That's disgusting

And here we have it, the reason why it's a waste of time to discuss this shit. In a moralfag's mind sex is bad and that's why we need to avoid it especially when it comes to kids.

Oh, you mean like I already addressed by saying this:

So not only can't you people do kindergarten-level arithmetic, you can't read, either. Keep digging that hole. If we moved to a test-based system to determine whether someone can consent, you'd fail and most teens wouldn't. I bet that really grinds your gears.

Way to twist what I meant.
I meant sex with children is bad, why do you feel that its ok to fuck a child? What the fuck is wrong with your head?
To make it clear no I'm not against sex in general. Just fucking KIDS.

FUCKING PEDOS KYS

HAVING SEX WITH SIX YEAR OLDS IS NOT OK

FUCKING MORALFAGS KYS
BEING SPOOKED DOES NOT PLEASE MY EGO

If sex isn't bad then why it isn't ok to lick a little girl's pussy?

No, I mean everything else. Are you really this ignorant of how sex works? For fuck's sake a significant portion of men get "post-coital" tristesse just from masturbating. Sexual fluids contain hormone signals meant to be read by the other party to facilitate bonding.

So what, you really are 14? Protip: a 14 year old being attracted to people in the same age group is perfectly normal and healthy. You don't have to defend raping children to feel like it's normal for a 14 year old to be attracted to 14 year olds, despite what some people will tell you.

Most people here aren't advocating for that, though. Who do you even think you're yelling at?

Are you trolling me now?
Like I said
No sexual relations with a minor an underaged person at all.
Adults is fine.

Anyway lets go back to the beginning?
By little girl do you mean a six year old? That's not ok. In my opinion if you're over the age of 16 then it's fine. But if you're below that age it's not because you're not properly adjusted to your puberty and you can't make good decisions because you're still young,stupid and not very smart. OOPS MORALFAG LOL

Also what age do you define as a little girl.

Keep digging.

Literally kill yourself. And take that flag off. You're not an anarchist. You're just another crypto-tankie. Go suck off Stalin and Mao in some other thread. The (intellectual) adults are talking here.

There's no reason why sex should have emotional attachment and in many cases doesn't.

So what?
For Christ sake it's not quantum physics it's just stimulating your sexual organs to feel pleasure, you don't have to be smart or mature to want and to enjoy feeling good.

So to you, sex is literally just pleasure? No emotional connection at all? Nothing that you do with the one you love? You just go "oh hey nice ass I'll bang you tonight!"
Well I've grown up believing sex to be a sort of sacred thing, and kids dont belong in that area.
There's more than just pleasure too, it's about getting closer to the one you love.
Or is this getting too moralfag and romantifag for you now?

Think of it this way
You are fucked for wanting sex with children, it is illegal. It is morally wrong. It is ethically wrong. It is shunned. While I don't believe pedophile's should be killed for obvious reason, I do at least believe they should be helped in not fucking kids.

Pedos are clueless, they can't prove that underaged sex won't harm the victim.

>>>Holla Forums
GET OUT

>>>/gulag/ AND DON'T COMEBACK

You know, this is something that really gets me about the arguments the morality police make. If you try to say that you want to have random sex with teens they'll talk about how important it is to have an emotional bond and a real relationship, but if you say you want a relationship with a teen they'll talk about how childish you are for thinking that all sex needs to be about relationships. It's almost like they're huge fucking hypocrites or something.

Can you prove that it will necessarily harm the victim? No? Then there is some discussion to be had about what constitutes harm, and at what age that harm happens, and other effects.

You might as well say "people are clueless, they can't prove that sex with women won't harm the woman".

Proving a negative is stupid anyway; the argument from harm comes from the camp who want high ages of consent.

Your are the proof i need against max stirner

Learn how burden of proof works before you spout off with shit like this.

Cry moar.

This is has gone to far i ti is time to stop
YOU PEDO SCUM

Are you a virgin or something? Of course not. You can have sex without any attached feelings. Stop being such a stupid faggot.
Wanting people not to go to jail for something doesn't mean you want to do that thing. You can stop strawmanning now.

No, marginalized groups like pedosexuality shall not be silenced.

Jesus save us from this thread

It can have an emotional connection or it can be just pleasure.
I don't know if you know it but there is a thing called prostitution where people pay to have sex with a stranger just for pleasure. There is also people that believe it or not go out at night, pick a partner and have a one night fuck to never see that person again. Sex isn't the same thing as love as you seen to think.

You've internalized moralfaggotry and see sex as something way more special than it actually is.

fuck off

Hello, reddit.

16. But only in a society where adolescents are treated with respect and educated properly and/or not corrupted by nihilistic hedonism via the media/counter culture/repression from religious institutes.

otherwise 18-21 because of the retarding effect of MTV culture and public education which prevents young adults from making informed and healthy decisions about their bodies

statutory rape is a necessary law until we regain competence among our younger population of adults

sucks but its the truth, anorexic twerking coked out 15-16 year olds can't make informed decisions about banging 30 year old coke dealers and businessmen at all. which is why 30 year old businessmen prefer young&dumb women

I dont understand this.
I'd rather die a lonely virgin than ever have sex with someone I dont love, it's pointless.
When you're a nice person but that makes you faggot. I see why people hate both sides of the pol's to be honest. You're equally as terrible as the other.

With pleasure

-Here defined as “recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 years or younger),” Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition (Washington D.C.: American Psychiatric Association, 1994), p. 528.
-Richard Hoffman, Half the House: A Memoir (New York: Harcourt, Brace & Company, 1995), p. 117.
-Ibid., p. 119.
-The following definitions are useful for this discussion. Child: “In general, a child is defined as someone who has not yet reached his or her 18th birthday,” “Understanding and Investigating Child Sexual Exploitation” (U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Justice Programs, 1997), p. 2. Also, “The Federal child pornography law defines a child (minor) as someone who has not yet reached his or her 18th birthday,” ibid., p. 3. Sex: Finkelhor writes that “‘sex’ refers to activities, involving the genitals, which are engaged in for the gratification of at least one person. Thus ‘sex’ is not limited to intercourse.” David Finkelhor, “Sexual Abuse as a Moral Problem,” in Child Sexual Abuse: New Theory and Research (London: The Free Press, 1984), p. 14. Child sexual abuse: “Sexual abuse involved any sexual contact with a child where consent is not or cannot be given (Finkelhor, 1979). This includes sexual contact that is accomplished by force or threat of force regardless of the age of the participants, and all sexual contact between an adult and a child, regardless of whether there is deception or the child understands the sexual nature of the activity.” Lucy Berliner and Diana M. Elliott, “Sexual Abuse of Children,” in The APSAC Handbook on Child Maltreatment, John Briere, et al., eds., (Thousand Oaks, Calif.: Sage Publications, 1996), p. 51.
-David Thorstad, “Pederasty and Homosexuality,” English translation of a speech originally given in Spanish to the Semana Cultural Lesbica-Gay, Mexico City, June 26, 1998, www.nambla.org/pederasty.htm.
-Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition, (Washington, D.C.: American Psychiatric Association, 1994), p. 528. (Henceforth “DSM IV”.)
-Ibid., pp. 525-532.
-Bruce Rind, Philip Tromovitch, and Robert Bauserman, “A Meta-Analytic Examination of Assumed Properties of Child Sexual Abuse Using College Samples,” Psychological Bulletin 124 (July 1998): 22-53.
-Ibid., p. 37.
-Ibid., p. 38.
-Ibid., p. 41.
-Ibid., p. 46.
-“Mental Health Leaders Suggest Flawed Research May Promote Pedophilia,” Press Release, The Leadership Council for Mental Health, Justice, and the Media, May 24, 1999.
-Ibid. It is significant to note that one of the studies cited by Rind, et al., found that “unusually high percentages” of the “positively rated experiences” were those of boys or young men who had sexual experiences with older females. Paul Okami, “Self-Reports of ‘Positive’ Childhood and Adolescent Sexual Contacts with Older Persons: An Exploratory Study,” Archives of Sexual Behavior 20 (1991): 454. Few clinicians would class such experiences, although undoubtedly abusive, as equivalent to the abuse — not infrequently including anal intercourse — inflicted upon a young boy by an older man.
-Debra K. Peters and Lillian M. Range, “Childhood Sexual Abuse and Current Suicidality in College Women and Men,” Child Abuse & Neglect 19 (1995): 339.
-Letter from Steven M. Mirin, M.D., to Robert Knight, Director of Cultural Studies, Family Research Council, dated May 27, 1999.
-Julia Duin, “Hill Joins Pedophilia-study Critics; Lawmakers Urge Professional Journal to Disavow Report,” Washington Times, May 13, 1999.
-“What Can Science Tell Us about Man/Boy Love?” www.nambla.org/benefit.htm, referring to M.C. Baurmann, Sexuality, Violence, and Psychological After-Effects: A Longitudinal Study of Cases of Sexual Assault Which Were Reported to the Police (Wiesbaden: Bundeskriminalamt, 1988).
-Berliner and Elliott, op. cit.

-Kathleen A. Kendall-Tackett, Linda Myer Williams, and David Finkelhor, “Impact of Sexual Abuse on Children: A Review and Synthesis of Recent Empirical Studies,” Psychological Bulletin 113 (1993): 164. See also Cathy Spatz Widom, “Victims of Childhood Sexual Abuse — Later Criminal Consequences,” Victims of Childhood Sexual Abuse Series: NIJ Research in Brief, March 1995: “The link between childhood sexual abuse and negative consequences for the victims later in life has been examined in clinical reports and research studies in the past two decades. Frequently reported consequences include acting-out behaviors, such as running away, truancy, conduct disorder, delinquency, promiscuity, and inappropriate sexual behavior.”
-David Lisak, “The Psychological Impact of Sexual Abuse: Content Analysis of Interviews with Male Survivors,” Journal of Traumatic Stress 7 (1994): 544. Chandy, et al., concur: “[T]here is ample research evidence to show that a history of sexual abuse constitutes a risk factor for adverse outcomes among children and adolescents.” Joseph M. Chandy, Robert Wm. Blum, and Michael D. Resnick, “Gender-Specific Outcomes for Sexually Abused Adolescents,” Child Abuse & Neglect 20 (1996): 1219.
-Berliner and Elliott, op. cit.
-Interview with Robert L. Johnson, M.D., conducted by Diane K. Shrier, M.D., Medical Aspects of Human Sexuality (September 1988): 35.
-Bill Watkins and Arnon Bentovim, “The Sexual Abuse of Male Children and Adolescents: A Review of Current Research,” Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry 33 (1992): 216.
-Angela Browne and David Finkelhor, “Impact of Child Sexual Abuse: A Review of the Research,” Psychological Bulletin 99 (1986): 66-77.
-Johnson, op. cit.
-Robert J. Timms and Patrick Connors, “Adult Promiscuity Following Childhood Sexual Abuse: An Introduction” in Short and Long Term Effects (New York: Garland Publishing, 1995), Volume 4, p. 20. See also Lenore E. Auerbach Walker, Handbook of Sexual Abuse of Children (New York: Springer Publishing Company, 1988), p. 7.
-Berliner and Elliott, op. cit., p. 55. Bagley, et al., concur: “Experiencing unwanted sexual activity before the age of 17 has a statistically significant link with various indicators of poor mental health, including depression, anxiety, posttraumatic stress, and a history of suicidal ideas and behavior.” Christopher Bagley, Michael Wood, and Loretta Young, “Victim to Abuser: Mental Health and Behavioral Sequels of Child Sexual Abuse in a Community Survey of Young Adult Males,” Child Abuse & Neglect 18 (1994): 694.
-P.E. Mullen, J.L. Martin, J.C. Anderson, S.E. Romans and G.P. Herbison, “The Long-Term Impact of the Physical, Emotional, and Sexual Abuse of Children: A Community Study,” Child Abuse & Neglect 20 (1995): 19.
-Danya Glaser and Stephen Frosh, Child Sexual Abuse, Second Edition (Toronto: University of Toronto Press, 1993), p. 21.
-W.L. Marshall, H.E. Barbaree, and Jennifer Butt, “Sexual Offenders against Male Children: Sexual Preferences,” Behavior Research and Therapy 26 (1988): 386.
-Berliner and Elliott, op. cit. p. 57.
-Ibid.
-Ibid.
-Timms and Connors, op. cit., p. 20, and Watkins and Bentovim, op. cit., pp. 224-225. Also, Browne and Finkelhor note, “Several studies of special populations suggest a connection between child sexual abuse and later prostitution” (Browne and Finkelhor, op. cit., p. 71).
-Timms and Connors, ibid., p. 19.
-Berliner and Elliott, op. cit., p. 57.
-Christopher T. Allers, Karen J. Benjack, and Norman T. Allers, “Unresolved Childhood Sexual Abuse: Are Older Adults Affected?” Journal of Counseling & Development 71 (September/October 1992): 14.
-Ibid.
-Kendall-Tackett, et al., op. cit., p. 175: “Yet the absence of symptoms certainly cannot be used to rule out sexual abuse. There are too many sexually abused children who are apparently asymptomatic.”

-Johnson, op. cit., p. 34.
-Widom, op. cit., “Victims of Childhood Sexual Abuse.” See also Kendall-Tackett, et al., op. cit., p. 175.
-Berliner and Elliott, op. cit., p. 55.
-David Finkelhor, “Early and Long-Term Effects of Child Sexual Abuse: An Update,” Professional Psychology: Research and Practice 21 (1990): 328. See also Glaser and Frosh, p. 23.
-“Introducing the North American Man/Boy Love Association,” North American Man/Boy Love Association pamphlet, undated.
-Alfred Kinsey, Wardell B. Pomeroy and Clyde E. Martin, Sexual Behavior in the Human Female (Philadephia: W.B. Saunders Company, 1953), p. 121.
-Kendall-Tackett, et al., op. cit., p. 174.
-Browne and Finkelhor, op. cit., p. 75.
-Ibid.
-Thorstad, op. cit., p. 7.
-Ibid., p. 8.
-Samuel S. Janus and Cynthia L. Janus, The Janus Report on Sexual Behavior (New York: John Wiley & Sons, Inc., 1993), p. 129.
-Lieutenant William Spaulding, M.S., “Interviewing Child Victims of Sexual Exploitation,” National Center for Missing & Exploited Children (February 1987): 8. For an in-depth discussion of the tactics of pedophiles, see Michele Elliot, Kevin Browne, and Jennifer Kilcoyne, “Child Sexual Abuse Prevention: What Offenders Tell Us,” Child Abuse and Neglect 19 (1995): 579-593.
-Dawn Fisher, “Adult Sex Offenders: Who are They? Why and How Do They Do It?” in Sexual Offending against Children, Tony Morrison, Marcus Erooga, and Richard C. Beckett, eds. (London: Routledge, 1994), p. 24.
-“Understanding and Investigating Child Sexual Exploitation,” op. cit., p. 19.
-Ibid., p. 7.
-Ibid., p. 9.
-Richard C. Beckett, “Assessment of Sex Offenders,” in Sexual Offending against Children, op. cit., p. 68.
-Ibid., p. 71.
-Finkelhor, “Sexual Abuse as Moral Problem,” op. cit. Note Finkelhor’s definition of child: “[A]t least in the first part of this discussion, [child] means a prepubertal child” (p. 14).
-Ibid., p. 18: “A patient, I would argue, cannot freely consent to sex with a therapist. The child-adult sex situation is similar, with the addition that not only the child could not freely consent, but also the child could not give informed consent. An adult patient is somewhat more aware of the social significance of sexuality, probably foreseeing some of the consequences of sex with a therapist.”
-Ibid.
-Ibid.
-Ibid., p. 19.
-Ibid., p. 18.
-Glenn D. Wilson and David N. Cox, “The Child Lovers: A Study of Paedophiles in Society” (London: Peter Owen, 1983), p. 129.
-Finkelhor, “Sexual Abuse as Moral Problem,” op. cit., p. 19.
-Mark 10:14, King James Version.
-Alan Walker, “A Plea from Sexually Abused Children,” www.intergate.bc.ca/personal/ranubis/plea.htm.

That's your faggy opinion. When you push your retarded morality on other people, that's when you become a faggot, faggot.
There's nothing harmful about sex. People do it all the time, yes, even kids.
And you're an SJW cuck.

total fun

Far from sjw, I hate them. I just dont like the thought of people fucking kids.
How would you like it if some 40 year old dude just fucked your 10 year old daughter?

I've had sex with girls younger than that. I don't see why you think they can't make their own decisions.
I've got a better idea. If it isn't seen as a bad thing when kids do it with each other, then at that age is the age of consent. Or better yet, apply consent laws universally.

...

Holla Forums is degenerate and Holla Forums is mentally ill

Then don't think about it.
Well, I'd feel relieved, because I just fucked my daughter. :^)

NAMBLA’s web page cites a German study of 8,000 reported victims of sex offenses, which, NAMBLA reports, concluded, “None of the boys experienced force or coercion, and no negative outcomes were observed for any of the boys.”18 (Emphasis in original.) This astounding interpretation of the study by NAMBLA is one that even the Rind study — which conceded some degree of negative effects — would not support.

In truth, those who would dismiss the negative effects of child sexual abuse do so against a veritable mountain of evidence documenting the pernicious consequences of adult-child sex. Lucy Berliner and Diana M. Elliott, in The APSAC Handbook on Child Maltreatment, summarize, “Research conducted over the past decade indicates that a wide range of psychological and interpersonal problems are more prevalent among those who have been sexually abused than among individuals with no such experiences.”19 In their review of 45 studies, Kathleen A. Kendall-Tackett, Linda Myer Williams, and David Finkelhor concur, “Fears, posttraumatic stress disorder, behavior problems, sexualized behaviors, and poor self-esteem occurred most frequently among a long list of symptoms noted. …”20 David Lisak adds to this long list of pernicious effects suffered by the survivors of child sexual abuse, which he describes as “a legacy of childhood abuse that permeates all of the important domains of its victims’ lives”:
The analysis identified prominent affects and affective states (anger, fear, helplessness, loss, guilt, and shame), salient cognitive sequelae (inability to legitimize their experience as abuse, negative schemas about the self and about people and self-blame), pervasive issues around gender and sexuality (homosexual issues, masculinity issues and problems with sexuality), and interpersonal difficulties (betrayal, isolation and alienation, and negative childhood peer relations).21

Researchers attribute the harm inflicted on the child to a number of factors: The abuse is often confusing, frightening — and painful. Sexual activity between children and adults, by its very nature nonconsensual, interferes with normal development processes and leads to maladjustment later in life.22 These negative effects can be categorized according to age group.

One effect is the development of homosexual tendencies. Watkins and Bentovim found that adolescents attributed the onset of their homosexual desires to having been victimized by an older male. Secondly, male victims of sexual abuse often turn their rage outward and attempt to reassert their masculinity in inappropriate ways, such as aggressive and antisocial behavior. Finally, some boy victims try to recapitulate — or re-enact — their victimization, this time with themselves as the perpetrator and someone else as the victim.

Another common reaction is for the victim to withdraw into himself or herself, dejected and plagued with self-doubt. This only aggravates the pain, for it is thought that children who do not speak about their sexual abuse suffer greater psychic distress than those who are able to seek help.25 Johnson notes:

Low self-esteem and depression are the most important long-term effects experienced by sexually abused boys, along with a tendency to feel helpless and vulnerable. Some of these boys are almost compulsively drawn into situations where they are repeatedly victimized. Adult types of sexual dysfunction appear to be as common among former sexual abuse victims as they are in adult rape victims.26

These may include running away from home, being enticed into prostitution, promiscuous sex, and substance abuse.27

Finally, and not surprisingly, many of these children become suicidal. They are more likely than other maltreated children to receive the psychiatric diagnosis of Posttraumatic Stress Disorder.28 Because of the nature of the abuse, they have difficulty forming trusting relationships — especially with those they view as parental figures.

Effects Continuing into Adulthood. In their study of the long-term impact of the abuse of children, P.E. Mullen, et al., note, “Child abuse, and sexual abuse in particular, has come to be regarded by many clinicians as making a powerful contribution to adult pathology.”29 The cycle of abuse continues when the victims of sexual abuse become parents themselves. Danya Glaser and Stephen Frosh observe:

Most significantly, perhaps, for social workers and other professionals working with children, it seems that victims of child sexual abuse may be more likely than others to become abusers themselves (Sheldrick, 1991) or to have children who are themselves abused, both physically (Goodwin, 1982) and sexually (CIBA, 1984).30

W.L. Marshall, H.E. Barbaree, and Jennifer Butt found that 53 percent of the child molesters in their study claimed to have been sexually molested by an adult when they were under age 16, while only 17 percent of the controls made such a claim.31

The dysfunctional home is often the result of parents who have been abused as children who continue to suffer from debilitating effects, including the following:

Emotional distress: Depression is the most commonly reported symptom among adult survivors of sexual abuse. Sexual abuse victims may have as much as a fourfold greater lifetime risk for major depression than do individuals with no such abuse history (Stein, et al., 1988). The pervasiveness of depression among some survivors is thought to be the cumulative effects of chronic betrayal, disempowerment, feelings of guilt and helplessness, and low self-esteem (Finkelhor & Browne, 1985; Peters, 1988).32

Anxiety: Various types of phobias are also a well-documented effect of sexual abuse, “with sexual abuse survivors having up to five times a greater likelihood of being diagnosed with at least one anxiety disorder than their nonabused peers (Saunders, Villeponteaux, et al., 1992; Stein et al., 1988).”33

Rage: Adult survivors of child sexual abuse often report chronic irritability, unexpected and overwhelming episodes of anger, and fear that their anger might turn violent. The anger is sometimes turned outward in verbal or physical abuse of others, or internalized as self-hatred and depression.

Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD): The psychiatric diagnosis of Posttraumatic Stress Disorder covers individuals experiencing extreme emotional reactions to traumatic events.

Child sexual abuse has been shown to result in PTSD in as many as 36% of adult survivors (Donaldson & Gardner, 1985; Saunders, Villeponteaux, et al., 1992). When the abuse included penetration, the risk for developing PTSD appears especially high, with as many as 66% of such victims developing the disorder at some point in their lives (Saunders, Villeponteaux, et al., 1992).34

Substance abuse: Abused children who try to numb their emotional pain with drugs often carry their dependency into adulthood. “Current clinical experience shows as many as 80 percent of hospitalized substance-abuse patients have a history of childhood sexual abuse.”35

Promiscuity: Child sexual abuse produces a range of behavioral problems, including compulsive sexual behaviors.

One such consequence is adult sexual promiscuity. Anxiety which arises over childhood abuse may be dealt with by compulsive or addictive behaviors. Repressed or forgotten abuse may manifest itself in adult life symptomatically by out-of-control behaviors which are abusive of self and others.36

Suicide: Victims of child sexual abuse are at greater risk for suicide.

In two studies of outpatient women, for example, patients with an abuse history were twice as likely to have attempted suicide [as] were their nonabused peers (Briere & Runtz, 1987; Briere & Zaidi, 1989). In a community sample, approximately 16% of survivors had attempted suicide, whereas less than 6% of their nonabused cohorts had made a similar attempt (Saunders, Villepondeaux, Lipovsky & Kilpatrick, 1992).37

The authors found that the elderly may actually suffer increased difficulty in coping with unresolved childhood victimization: “We suspect that these difficulties may be compounded because of the loss of peer support, physiological changes in later life, and the loss of roles and resources that at one time served to distract the survivor and alleviate the stress arising from unresolved abuse issues.”39

Researchers in the field of child sexual abuse note the curious anomaly of victims who appear to suffer no outward effects from their molestation.40 However, the vast majority of psychologists and psychiatrists treating child sexual abuse do not arrive at the facile conclusion that such subjects did not suffer abuse. While Johnson readily admits, “Most of the child-abuse victims we have seen … remain relatively silent. They don’t show any major symptoms,” he hastens to add that they “may be sitting time bombs, at risk of developing significant or subtle psychological sequelae.”41

There are a number of factors that cause some victims to appear asymptomatic:

Reliance upon self-reporting: Research such as the Rind study, which relied upon the subject’s retrospective self-reporting, often fails to uncover the underlying psychic trauma of their subjects. Cathy Spatz Widom points out:

Retrospective accounts of sexual abuse may be subject to bias or error. For example, unconscious denial (or repression of traumatic events in childhood) may prevent recollection of severe cases of childhood sexual abuse. It is also possible that people forget or redefine their behaviors in accordance with later life circumstances and their current situation.42

Absence of correlative testing: Berliner and Ellicott found that, as a group, the self-reporting of sexually abused children often does not significantly differ from comparison groups:

However, emotional disturbance has been found on personality tests (e.g., Basta & Peterson, 1990; German, Habernicht, & Futcher, 1990; Scott & Stone, 1986) and projective measures (Stovall & Craigm 1990). Projective measures may pick up aspects of functioning that children cannot or do not reveal symptomatically.43

Some victims cope better than others: Finkelhor conjectures that “the asymptomatic children are mostly ones who have suffered less serious abuse and have adequate psychological and social resources to cope with the stress of abuse.” Such children are more likely “to have gotten support from parents in the context of a relatively well-functioning family.”44 It is deceptive and exploitative to use the fact that some children are able to marshal the resources to overcome the effects of their abuse as “evidence” that child sexual abuse is therefore not harmful. Even those who outwardly appear asymptomatic suffer throughout their lives the memories of how they were personally violated.

...

Pedophile organizations such as NAMBLA advocate the overturning of all laws regulating sex between adults and children. NAMBLA states, “We believe sex is good and wholesome. … We encourage and support young people in their rebellions against the anti-sexual restrictions imposed upon them by adults — parents, police, ‘moral’ crusaders, the church, the law, and the state.”45 According to this view, psychological dysfunction on the part of sexual abuse victims is caused by negative familial or societal attitudes toward adult-child sex. Were it not for such religion-based disapproval, alleges NAMBLA, children of all ages would freely and eagerly participate in a wide variety of sexual practices with adults.

This view is evident in Alfred C. Kinsey’s Sexual Behavior in the Human Male, published in 1948, which created a doctrine of “child sexuality” from data derived from the systematic molestation of hundreds of boys. Kinsey concluded that children are “sexual beings” from birth. In 1953, his companion volume, Sexual Behavior in the Human Female, stated, “It is difficult to understand why a child, except for its cultural conditioning, should be disturbed at having its genitals touched.”46

This position has been examined by researchers and found wanting. Kendall-Tackett, et al., reviewed studies testing the theory that an unsupportive family environment, not the sexually abusive activities per se, is the cause of trauma in sexually abused children:

However, certain evidence from the studies included in the present review argues against such a conceptualization. First, the studies showed that nonabused siblings (i.e., children raised in the same dysfunctional families) displayed fewer symptoms than did their abused siblings (Lipovsky, Saunders, & Murphy, 1989).47

If family dysfunction was actually causing the trauma, then all siblings should be similarly affected.

Angela Browne and David Finkelhor did find a relationship between how parents reacted to their child’s telling them about sexual abuse and the degree of negative symptoms experienced by the child:

The Tufts (1984) study found that when mothers reacted to disclosure with anger and punishment, children manifested more behavioral disturbances. However, the same study did not find that positive responses by mothers were systematically related to better adjustment. Negative responses seemed to aggravate, but positive responses did not ameliorate, the trauma.48

In other words, mothers who lacked compassion and understanding made a bad situation worse — but even those mothers who were supportive and tried to help could not prevent the negative effects from occurring.

Kendall-Tackett, et al., found,

[A] review of the 25 studies in which the influence of intervening variables was examined (Table 5) consistently showed strong relationships between specific characteristics of the sexual abuse and the symptomatology in the children (e.g., Newberger, Gremy, & Waternaux, 1990). All of this argues for traumatic processes inherent in the sexual abuse itself that are independent from a generalized family dysfunction or generalized maltreating environment.49

I can agree to that.

It's going to be difficult to not think about it by the time I'm 40 if the world carries on the ways it does, by then pedophillia and incest will be legal and we'll be on our way to land of the degenerate mentally ill city of cancer

Those who propose the legitimization of adult-child sex frame their cause as a moral crusade for the “freedom of choice” and the “rights” of children. They allege that children freely desire and willingly consent to have sex with adults, and are only prevented from doing so by oppressive societal condemnation. Thorstad rails against what he calls a “heterosexual dictatorship” that is ruthlessly stepping up its efforts to “control, police, and instill fear in the population.”50 The United States, according to Thorstad, “is becoming — perhaps already has become — a police state.” Why? Because of an “antisex hysteria” that prohibits boys and men from engaging in sexual relations: “Men and youths have always been attracted to each other, and, like homosexuality in general, their love is irrepressible.”51

Pedophiles attempt to portray adult-child sexual relationships as mutual, tender “coming of age” experiences fondly cherished by the child. Such arguments belie the reality of the well-documented dynamics involved in the seduction of children by beguiling, manipulative pedophiles.

Far from the stereotype of dirty, unkempt men hanging around playgrounds, most pedophiles are middle-class professionals who often live “next door,” and who spend weeks and even months “grooming” their victims. The modus operandi of child abusers is well known to both researchers and police. The Janus Report on Sexual Behavior notes, “Sergeant Lloyd Martin, formerly head of the Juvenile Vice Bureau of the Los Angeles Police Department, related to us that, when he sees a man who is much nicer to a child than any father would be, ‘I know I have a child abuser.’”52

Lieutenant William Spaulding of the Division of Criminal Intelligence in Louisville, Ky., shares his insight into the mind of the child abuser:

It is vitally important for those persons involved in the investigation of cases of exploited children to understand that a strong bond often develops between the child and the adult offender. The preferential child molester (pedophile) is very good at obtaining cooperation and gaining control of the child through well-planned seduction processes that employ adult authority, affection, attention, gifts, or threats — either articulated or implied.53

Many pedophiles have a “sixth sense” for spotting children who might be susceptible to their advances. In her analysis of adult sex offenders, Dawn Fisher describes the elaborate methods that molesters employ both to set up the situation where the abuse occurs and to overcome the child’s resistance:

The grooming of the victim may involve developing a friendship with the child, using bribes of affection and gifts, threats or physical violence. Some offenders may target particular children who are perceived as being vulnerable in some way, possibly through poor parenting or previous sexual abuse.54

Given the complex stratagems that pedophiles employ, it is understandable that few victims realize the ultimate goal of their newfound “friend.” A U.S. Department of Justice report on child sexual exploitation states, “Most preferential sex offenders spend their entire lives attempting to convince themselves and others that they are not perverts and that they love and nurture children.”55 The tragic fact is that children who are being preyed upon “have been carefully seduced and often do not realize they are victims. They repeatedly and voluntarily return to the offender.” The truth often does not become apparent to them until after they have been abandoned: “Then they see that all the attention, affection, and gifts were just part of a master plan to use and exploit them.”56

The report catalogues the lengths to which pedophiles can go, even after detection and arrest, to keep their victims loyal to them:

Because of their bond with the offender, victims frequently resent law enforcement intervention and may even warn the offender. Even the occasional victim who comes forward and discloses the abuse may feel guilty and then warn the offender. The offender may also continue to manipulate the victims after the investigation has begun — for example, by appealing to their sympathy or by making a feeble attempt at suicide to make them feel guilty or disloyal.57

Even after incarceration for their crimes against children, pedophiles cling to the notion that their relationships with their victims were consensual. Richard Beckett, in his study on sex offenders, found that pedophiles
1/2

2/2

typically display a range of more fundamental distortions, related to the belief that some children will actively seek sexual encounters with adults, can consent to and benefit from such encounters and have the capacity to reciprocate the degree of emotional feeling and attachment the adult abuser may feel for the child.58

Such “fundamental distortions” or moral reasoning are aggressively promoted by pedophile advocates such as NAMBLA, which is vocal in its insistence that the sodomizing of young boys constitutes an act of “love.” But do pedophiles really care about children? Beckett’s findings regarding this question are revealing:

Several studies of child abusers have indicated they are impaired in their capacity for empathy, particularly towards their own victim. … When victims are perceived as deserving of abuse, guilty of provoking or enjoying sexual contact with adults, their distress is likely to be ignored.59

Thus, the self-deception of pedophiles that children seek after and “enjoy” being sodomized serves as a convenient justification for ignoring the trauma inflicted upon their young victims.

Lmao you dumb fucking ape

Women who have repeated solo sex encounters are statistically less likely to form emotional bonds with their life partner and their children

Men who routinely fuck lots of women have trouble remaining faithful to their partners

People who have sex before the age of 16 tend to engage in risky, highly questionable sexual encounters

Casual sex correlates strongly with rape culture and with date rape

Casual sex also strongly correlates with alcohol binging, smoking cigarettes and wait for it: hard drug abuse

casual sex is a form of dysfunction in the executive function center of the brain. it is a sign of impulsivity and pre-domesticated behavior reminiscent of bonobos or our ancient ape ancestors

Human beings are unique in that we can override retard animal urges for the good of our organism and the species

you are basically a naked risen ape, who needs to be either put through therapy or ostracized from the community

you are a disgusting degenerate and you are part of the reason we have capitalism as our dominant economic system

casual sex and capitalism go together like aids and casual sex

I don't see a single negative by this situation. Your faggot ass gets triggered and I get to shag lolis(but not really because I'm not actually interested).

DO YOU NEED MORE PROOFS CUZ I HAVE SO FUCKING MANY

Lol. This is such bullshit.

I'll read your post when you stop posting like you're from reddit, you fucking piece of shit.

Nope not even close you

Try again reductionist fag

lmao i've been here for months fuckwit i haven't been on reddit in years. it shit you arrogant fuck

Oh noes, a bunch of biased "studies" I'm totally convinced now.

...

So you are asking for more.
and you will get more.

...

>>>Holla Forums
Get out

Reported for spam :^)

It's not so much I get triggered.
it's more uh how do I put it?
Society collapsing perhaps?
I mean think about it, you get all prostitutes turn into kids in America.
What do you think the tourism will do?
"Oh not America, god that place is a safe haven for pedophiles"
America becomes known as Kidfuckica
Money from tourism is gone completely
Kids get raped and mentally scared for life.
A good way to explain is for you to watch the film (excuse me jewry here) Hobo with a shotgun, that city is what America will become if this continues.
About 95% sure anyway.

A spam is a content that is repetitive.
I am safe i won't get banned

Why
Do
You
Keep
Writing
Like
A
Fucking
Retard

No, if you fill up a thread when you could have posted a link, that is spam.

Nigger what the fuck are you trying to prove with your gish gallop? All your sources say sexual abuse, which is used synonymously as any sexual relationship with anyone under *le magic number, however high it may be* so it is impossible to determine whether or not the ones involved consented or not.

...

What's it like to be a fucking idiot?

Unless 6 years old hit on you i will never name it anything else but a sex abuse you sick filth

I
dont
know
it's
a
habit
I
made
out
of
spacing
each
individual
line
from
the
older
chat
services
I
used
to
use
back
in
the
vietnam
wars xDDDD

Looking like a huge retard right now. We should ban all sex, as obviously some people might regret it.

Get the fuck outta here with your fucking pedigree bullshit. I've been here since the summer and before that i was on alt left twitter you fag

seriously get the fuck outta my face

You're from fucking reddit, m8.

No the point is, let one law like this pass and you'll have a fuckton others too, incest would be allowed. Beastilaity would be allowed too. Lots of those juicy degenerate things : ) : )

8ch.net/liberty/res/44089.html

Why shouldn't it be allowed? If I want to fuck my sister and she wants to fuck, why is it any of your business?
Why shouldn't it be?

Ew reddit?
Nah, I never used that for anything other than something that I needed help with.
Literally did not type a single letter into reddit.

oh
what
do
we
have
here
ammmmm
it
is
a
study
on
the
effect
of
pedophilia
on
the
underaged

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3693773/

Look at this faggot.

Maybe I should like to a rape study to prove why sex with women should be illegal.

No we should regulate sex with people whose brains are physically not developed enough to know whether or not they are harming themselves or giving away resources they should not be

Have you ever wondered its easier to sell products to minors? How its easier to rip off a 16 year old for a bag of weed than a 25 year old? or are you purposefully pretending to be obtuse about this huge gap in discerning power and executive function. again you're basically an ape parasite on the back of human culture. no one is saying we should ban sex. i think in a leftist anarchic society 15/16 is a good place to start but it should be discouraged for people over 21 to fuck people under 21. again its just common sense. if you're 25 you should have interests and social ties that negate any attraction you would have to younger adults. common sense, within the flow of human development. not "muhhhh dickk" which is your barely sentient theory on human sexual relations

Oh no, I googled how to fix a game or something
y so angery hahaha

Riddle me this fag
Is it ok to have sex with adult women that is drunk and drugged to hell?
OH W8 IT IS NOT
Why? because she is not in her full mental power
Same thing with children
Now leave >>>Holla Forums

If sex isn't bad then why it isn't ok to lick a little girl's pussy?
It's not quantum physics it's just stimulating your sexual organs to feel pleasure, you don't have to be smart or mature to want to and to enjoy feeling good.

If we can eat animals, why can't we have sex with them?

To me seems to be more cruel eating animals, rather than having sex with them

Nice vague catch-all term. If I fuggle with a 20 year old in Bahrain would that be sexual abuse because that person would be under the magic number?

Because we live in a society whose norms were dictated by moralfaggs and in a moralfagg's mind violence and killing are awesome but sex it's the ultimate sacred thing.

Sex isn't a resource. It's like saying hugs are a resource. And we've already gone over this. If someone shows understanding and consent, then age shouldn't matter. If kids can have sex with each other, then they should be allowed to have sex with adults.

I guess we should ban people over 40 from fucking people under 30 as well.
I guess you're in favor of "common sense gun regulations too".
Again, sex doesn't mean a relationship. There need be no more interest than sexual interest in both parties for it to work.

Disgraceful

I've done it. I don't see why not. I was also drunk and drugged as hell.
I don't know any children that are constantly high and drunk. I think sex is the least of their problems.

Because she isn't capable of drawing upon an extensive library of social experience and/or introspective understanding of what she wants/intellectual understanding of personal space and agency over her body to make an informed decision about something as big as engaging in sex and it will fuck with her perception of sex because it will have been a non-consensual formative experience that involved her intimate physical being and did not involve her mind or emotions on a level that she would have wanted

you are committing a heinous act of callous disregard for another person's life and mind

which is a sign of serious mental and emotional instability

It's not that big. Argument invalidated.

I could just accuse you of Gish galloping, but why not try to respond to at least some of this? It might be fun.

Note: In the following, replace most instances of "child" with "teens" for a better grasp of what's going on here.

Already diverging from what we're talking about, which is people at puberty or beyond, in the very first sentence. You're not off to a great start here.

Good to know you enjoy circular logic.

It's also significant to note that Rind issued a follow-up to those who criticized his study, which was never responded to. Repeat attempts at his study have only verified his findings.

Well good thing nobody's talking about that, isn't it, you fucking dipshit?

Let's try rewording this statement a little bit.

And this is why actual scientists laugh at you people. Or at least they would if you didn't threaten to torture and murder them.

Of course it is. It's equally deceptive and exploitative to argue that sexual activity with someone under a certain age is automatically abusive and that people must be traumatized by it.

Strawmanning combined with classic projection. The people advocating this hysteria are more manipulative than anyone else.

Hmm, it's almost as if IT WAS FUCKING VOLUNTARY, YOU RETARD. The way you go around screaming that everyone is a victim it's like you're looking for micro aggressions. Oh wait, that's because you ARE the exact same SJW assholes who invented micro aggressions.

Wahahahahaha, you people are hilarious. You'd be much funnier if you weren't actively ruining lives, though.

I should rephrase what I said to be honest I never actually meant it was sacred I wanted to sound smarter to be honest, I'm a faggot like that.

If you're above the age of consent and you're fucking someone above the age of consent its fine. Just dont fuck minors?

wot? u expect me to code a new .dll file? god damn, I couldn't do that in 6 gorillion huntrillion years

Minors have sex with each other. Are they making irreparable harm to themselves because of this? No, then they can consent.
You're such a luser, user.

sex is a resource, generally women are the arbiters of it. this is an unedeniable fact and it is why sex is used to gain influence and power and to exert power over others. people commit rape as an act of power over someone's sexual resources. again blatantly ignoring common sense understaning of the human condition for the sake of being a sophist. disgraceful.

lmao 30 and 40 year olds are both fully grown adults who are part of the work force and have finished education

15 year olds and 25 year olds are in completely different parts of their life and completely different parts of their hormonal and mental development

no im in favor of responsible gun ownership

you're on of those liberal atomized faggots who thinks thy don't have a relationship with everyone they interact with. you have a relationship with institutions, service industry workers, your family, your partners and your work. you cannot escape this. you can try to block it out or disregard it but it shapes you and your mind every day constantly. you are not free from it at all

what is seems is you are a low empathy liberal who hides behind the guise of libertarian socialist beliefs.

funny because actual libertarian socialists would never ever advocate sex with minors because it is a form of violence that deprives them of their agency

again a 21 year old and mature 15 year old is sketchy but ultimately harmless. a 27 year old and a 14 year old is gratuitous and despicable. you're a weak male if you need to go after women who have no executive function center

No it isn't.

To be honest this topic is getting difficult now so I'll probably end up lurking pretty soon.
Hey fuck you though, I'd use a magnetized needle If I had one but sadly I used my last on shoving it so far into my step sisters cervix that she is now dead. At least I can start some hot 100% legal necrophilia though hahahaha : >

M8, I'm married, and yes she's younger than me. That's not really an issue, though, and I was having sex when I was 13. It's not that weird outside of the US, and I would have loved to fuck my math teacher, but she was way out of my league.

Hawt

Sexual fluids directly signaling for emotional bonding isn't relevant to the weight of sex, especially when power imbalances are in play? Are you literally retarded or something?

Never said or implied that. The line about defending child rape was about defending fucking five year olds in this post

Oh, so a true anarchist would be alright with the hierarchy involved in a sexual relationship between an adult and a child then?

Should has nothing to do with it. Sexual response involves a lot more than just physical stimulation. If it didn't then rape would be no different from tickling someone.

Oh one more thing
17-16 fucking is fine
22-17 or 18 fucking is fine
13-13 fucking is a bit odd but neither should face the wrath of the law
45-13 fucking is not ok

FREEDOM IS SLAVERY

You want nudes? I can send them!
Or you want the body? Needles still in there too. I put it in my urethra sometimes to be honest. Pretty fucking sweet

...

That may be, but that doesn't prove that all sex is emotional, which is what the other post claimed.

You just said 13-13 is fine. Or are those kids now scarred for life?

Give one argument for this other than "it's gross" or any other spook

yeah dude
They can burn in the flames of magnetized needles for all i care now

Not him, but 13-13 is two kids experimenting with each other when they're both on the same level of experience and power compared to the dynamic where the age gap is much larger.

You only have to look outside the scope of pedophilia to see how retarded this argument is.

It's always experimenting? Not just plain out fucking because they like it? I find that hard to believe, especially since I was fucking at that age with not issues.
Then obviously we should ban sex between rich and poor, 40 and 20, and men and women. Or we can realize that some people know what they want, and we can know this irrespective of age.

You're deliberately ignoring what I said. If someone has sex for the first time at 25, their experience level isn't going to be any different from someone who does it at 15, therefore said fluids have no relevance to the morality of the situation.

Also:

You don't have any room to call anyone a retard.

There are power imbalances in basically every relationship on some level, whether it's a sexual relationship, a relationship between business partners or a relationship between the average citizen and the workers' council of your commune. Even among people similar in age, different people have different strengths and weaknesses. The goal of society should be to create an environment where those imbalances can be leveled out in order for happy relationships to exist, not to just ban everything that might be dangerous. We might as well ban cars, planes and the internet by the hysteria-mongers' logic.

This will probably be my last serious post so I'll make it count.
The adult can trick kids into it
Adults are better at decieving
Children's brains are different when young, so they wont respond like an adult would? not sure how to word it.
I assume these are related but I've lost all desire to properly argue this now.
livescience.com/3616-child-brains-organized-differently-adult-brains.html
blogs.unicef.org/blog/how-childrens-brains-develop-new-insights/

oh oh oh oh also
using the power dynamics meme, a kid being fucked by an older man might give them pretty weird fetishes in the future too, but who's saying that's bad. We all want a person who we can just sort of like
hit
while being pleasured by the pain of it, right?

We didn't hit bumplock, some SJW faggot mod from Reddit bumplocked it because they can't handle the truth.

Hungers getting to me man, I meant

do you want to actually defend your argument with specifics or…?

So I guess lying to women to get them in bed should be rape, then, no?

Kek, you're all pedohpiles :D
This whole thread is both gold and archived, bahahahahahahahha

...

What's your point?

The fact that you would have to deceive someone for sex is a symptom of a sex negative society, and would be a rare occurrence in one of which does not treat sex like a very important life choice. Nonetheless, these kinds of things still happen, and they only happen more often because of AoC laws and taboo.

Kids develop fetishes despite not having sex, and will develop them in adulthood as well. You're only delaying the inevitable.

What do you mean by this? I said that sex involves complex emotions inherently. Sexual response operates independently of consent, which is what I meant by contrasting rape and tickling. My point is that sex can be used to force an emotional response, which is coercive.

Or you don't understand the degree to which adults have power over kids.

It's not in the context of adult life, so at most it's fucking with training wheels. The stakes in school-aged kids' relationships are very different from the stakes in adult life.

A lot of maturing happens between 15 and 25, physical and mental, but the point is that the age disparity is the problem. I'll address that below.

Calling something a meme is not an argument.

Not at the level of a sexual relationship between an adult and child. Again, one of the people ITT was saying it's not harmful to fuck five year olds. Sex inherently puts people in a vulnerable state and is inherently dangerous, and if people learn sex in a context where they don't have the power to assert themselves or control the boundaries it sets them up to be victimized further later in life (assuming it's possible for the adult fucking them to not be abusing them), or to play the role of predator once they become adults. We have a minimum driving age for similar reasons.

45 year olds fucking 13 year olds isn't this. This is just a bunch of bullshit meant to distract from the main point, and you have the gall to say that bringing up sexual biology is a distraction, holy shit.

Jesus Christ. The people on Holla Forums is absolutely disgusting.

And you would be wrong, as evidenced by one night stands, hookup culture, and promiscuous individuals. Sex doesn't have to have emotions involved and often doesn't.
Even if I agreed, and I don't, this has no age boundary, so is all sex coercive now?

Why does context matter one bit? It's just sex. You're trying to make a difference where there is none.
Care to tell me what they are? Because you can have easy sex with low stakes at any stage in your life.

The power imbalace argument IS a meme-tier argument. You can apply it to any kind of relationship and call it rape.

See:

The people on Holla Forums are absolutely disgusting.

Kill yourself.

Obviously not for you, since you're taking the side of people who don't understand logical fallacies, can't read and can't do elementary math. I bet you consider the boomers less mature than you for their slavish support of capitalism, too. I'm not exaggerating when I say that the average teenager is more mature and more capable of consenting to sex than anyone who thinks they aren't.

Do you have any sort of objective method of quantifying this? Wait, what am I saying, of course you don't. If you did, your side would have presented it many years ago.

On the other hand, we actually do have an objective method: Can you pass sex ed? You can? Okay then!

I'm not that person.

That's kind of the point of having society around to balance things out. Even in an anarchist society, if they feel uncomfortable, they can call someone to help them. But the vast majority of the time, someone who feels uncomfortable with it will never allow themselves to even get into that situation.

Just because you were a retard at 15 and still are today doesn't mean it's that way for all of us.

Driving is much more dangerous than sex. It's much easier to kill or injure someone with a speeding car than it is to do anything remotely comparable through sexual means, so it doesn't even remotely make sense to let people drive at 16 but make them wait until 18 to fuck. Then again, most current laws don't make sense.

Looks like you need to go back to your safe space.

I can agree with the fetish thing, I was just making a joke out of that to be honest.
But to be honest I'm pretty confused about the whole thing, with these things I can never make a proper statement.
I'd assume pedophillia is wrong but as a youngfag and as an apparent moralfag it does seem wrong.
Probably because of all the hate that pedophiles get, but personally I don't think it'll be legalized like ever. It's just too hated, even if you wanted them accepted. Which is what I want despite what I said. It just wont happen.

is what I'm saying even relevant anymore we'll never know

Ran out of memes can't think of anything else morbid or slightly amusing to say

Is there even a conclusion to pedophilia? Every single discussion goes nowhere.

All of that involves emotions, but the people engaging in it have developed the ability to handle those emotions.
It is when it involves someone who's not emotionally developed enough to handle it. The guy I was talking to above was talking about adults fucking five year olds. I'm for lowering the age of consent; 18 is ridiculous, but you're coming down on the same side as someone who's arguing for adults fucking five year olds. They aren't mature enough for all kinds of things aside from sex.

Sex is a lot of different things to a lot of different people, but to kids it's something they're learning to understand. In a different society where kids are taught about sex this would be somewhat different, but kids are kept ignorance because a lot of people have a weird purity fetish that they successfully enforce. I'm against age of consent as a specific number. People here are arguing it's harmless to have sex with kids who don't even have developed sex organs yet.
Generally the worst that will happen with schoolkids and sex is that their reputation will be tarnished among other kids or the adults. With adults, the same thing (a tarnished reputation) can result in losing your job (and livelihood) or jailtime. This point is a tangent, my assertion is that kids having sex with each other happens in a whole different sphere of life (again, this is largely a product of society). Sex, just like any activity, happens in a particular context. What differentiates sex from other activities is that it involves powerful and complicated emotions; managing this dimension is a skill and a learning process, and doing it with someone who has vastly more experience while you're still learning the basics is playing with fire at best.

Actual pedophilia will probably never be legalized, but I can definitely see the AoC being lowered by a few years, and quite soon too. The driving force behind it is going to be the same angry young men who joined the socialist movement because they were lied to about capitalism, and who are now (belatedly) figuring out that they were also lied to about what types of sexual relationships are and aren't harmful. Those angry young men are the ones who know how to use guns, so once socialism is established, the feminists can whine all they want and they won't stop it.

Do any of those imbalances involve relative mental faculties? The ability to assess risk? The ability to process emotions? Huge difference in size, strength, durability? Again, we're talking about little kids, not teenagers. I'm fine with lowering the AoC or with having teenagers be sexually active.

A lot of groups that are now accepted were once hated more than pedophiles were now. You could get the death penalty or lynched for assfucking someone back in the day for instance, and once those laws were repealed, you'd be an outcast if you were found out about such a thing.

If you believe it's all just a bunch of adult incels, so they wouldn't have any more experience than a teen. Yet somehow they still have too much experience to have sex with one.

I think it might too, I mean as long as actual pedophillia isn't legalized then we'll be fine I guess, if we legalized I just feel like bad shit would happen.
I mean riots happen when a black criminal gets killed after killing a bunch of innocent people.
What would happen if Pedophillia was legalized? If only we could see into multiple universes

Im 20 years old and had sex with a 13 year old once. I felt like i was in charge the whole time. During the sex i felt great but afterwards i felt like i took avantage of her.

And i can clearly say that underage people can consent to other underage people but not to adults.

Also wrong, as evidenced by teens that fuck for no reason than being horny. If anything, adults place more spooks on sense than kids.
This doesn't happen at a magical age, nor does it mean that it stops being effective if the other partner is older.
If by some freak accident of nature, a 5 year old was able to articulate sexual feelings and understanding of them, then who are you to deny them this? Or worse, who are you to consider their partner an abuser?
I believe age is an arbitrary standard that does not reflect the actual maturity of a person or their ability to engage in sex.
Or it's just something to do for fun. You are saying every teen is just learning as if they were apes, and not simply fucking because it feels good.
So what are you arguing about?
I think we were all talking about people physically able to engage in sex. As for sexual play, I can see how this would be used to teach about sex, but not how it could be an actual relationship. In either way, sexual play should not be criminalized in that context. This doesn't mean strangers get to fondle your 4yo dick.
This is only in current society. In the future, I don't see why this can't be normalized.
And? What difference does it make. Can I not fuck grannies because their sex occurs in a nursing home?
Here you are again, asserting that sex is emotional by nature, and it simply is not. We know this because we have observed teen promiscuity. It simply doesn't follow from the observational evidence. You are making shit up.
It isn't. Fucking because it feels good is pretty fucking simple. I know I never had to "manage emotions".
Why do you think this? Wouldn't it be more reasonable to think that a mentor/apprentice relationship would develop, sine the older person has learned to care about feelings? Again, that's assuming what you said is true, and I don't think it is. You have given no reasons why sex with older people is somehow damaging. Face it, you're stuck in backwards morality.

I doubt you would complain about a bodybuilder in a romantic relationship with a mentally handicapped midget. That's a greater gap than an adult-child relationship would contain. Even a one night stand between the hypothetical two would probably just yield the guy as "just weird" at best.

What is the difference between "actual pedophilia" and, I guess, "false" pedophilia?

We should do Autism Level tests for sex, then. Dumb people might get tricked.
We should ban strong people from having sex with weak ones.
We're talking about people who already have sex at least with members of the same age group. Nobody is saying that babyfuck is AWWRIGHTTT.

False pedophillia?
I probably made some stupid mistake, very tired and in a lot of pain.
But Pedophillia is being attracted to minors, so anyone who is pre-teen
Hebephillia is anyone who is attracted to teens
Epeohebia? That's the one where you're basically just attracted to normal people I think.

I don't know what this false pedophillia is though…

I had sex with a 17 year old when I was 13. Not once did I feel taken advantage of. See, I can into shit like this too. As for who took advantage. Did you ever ask her, you fucking idiot? Maybe she actually enjoyed it and you just feel guilty because you're a stupid faggot.

Just to differentiate from "actual pedophilia"

yeah I've been feeling like I've been making that mistake this whole discussion, I couldn't tell if you lot meant teens or literal children who were 6.
Which is why I got so pissy previously. Because sticking your dick in a six year old is always bad. Assume it would hurt a lot too.

Today I will remind them

Oh fuck, you totally got me dawg.

I'm not really concerned with teenagers to be honest. 13 is pushing it for sure, but what bothers me is how apparently nobody else seems to be bothered by the guy who thinks fucking a 5 year old isn't harmful. Someone who's a teenager who's got a handle on sex I wouldn't object to having sex with someone much older, but most 13 year olds are not like that. Again, there's a reason why there's a driving age too.

Unfortunately there isn't a good model for this. I would like one, but its absence doesn't mean fucking a five year old is harmless.

That's hardly objective for one, but more importantly you can pass sex ed well before the onset of puberty. It's just like any other contemporary course based on memorization.

That's nice. One day I'd like to live in that world, but I live in reality. People get trapped by those with more power all the time, and the society we currently have has no idea how to deal with the situation properly, so even in cases where sex between an adult and adolescent is not inherently harmful, society will introduce harm.

Again, it's more complicated than that. Why do you keep reducing sex to something so basic? Sex involves a lot more than just the physical stimulation of genitals.

Yeah, I agree AoC at 18 is ridiculous. Sex isn't potentially lethal in the same way as driving (even though some STDs are still very dangerous), but it puts people in a more emotionally vulnerable state that involves our sense of self. Sure in a different society maybe things would be different and I would probably support the kind of society that would remove danger from sex (or anything really), but at present we have a massive taboo on anything sexual, including anything that would help kids develop the skills necessary to manage their emotional lives (this goes beyond sex).

There was literally a guy who said he thinks it's not harmful to fuck five year olds.

I don't think it's inherently harmful if such a five year old somehow has a developed brain. I think it's unlikely, though.

Yes she consented, and im not saying she did not enjoy it. Im just saying that i felt like i was taking avantage of her because she belived everything i said. She was just really easy to convince about anything. I really dident feal like we wear equal mentaly. Our conversations were literelly about cats, and nothing else. Thats why i felt that it wasnt right.

Not in the way that adults can. Humans don't pop fully formed from their mother's twat.

Depends on the mental handicap. There's also the adult/child "seniority" dynamic missing here, which plays a major part.

I think it's more their body size to be honest.
Like a five year old is really small, you might cause them a lot of pain?

There is a linguistic problem. Consent just means giving permission and its definition has no implication of the validity of that consent.
en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/consent
I think there should be more than one word for consent to distinguish acceptable and unacceptable consent. Different people mature at different rates physically and psychologically and not equally either like one part could bee mature for their verge age and some part could be immature for their average.

That is true but who they are doesnt invalidate what they say if they make a valid point but to prove it true evidence would be needed too. I never said society is the only factor either. I simply was saying things I've heard to help make up for the disappointment of that poster I replied to.

Yes, that is how it works but the question is how they would feel if people did not react that way. I never made a suggestion on how easy or difficult it is to learn or teach culture.

If I recall right out of girls I spoke to the youngest one started and claimed to like it even after growing up to an adult said they were 7 but that is assuming if they were telling the truth. I don't recall all the details of my conversations as many of them take place with strangers. Usually the ones that claim they liked it arent younger than 11 though. The ones more traumatized usually were usually younger. I'm just reporting what experiences I've been told about. Stockholm Syndrome is something that happens from repeated abuse or prolonged captivity. I dont recall hearing about it being instantaneous. So that can explain some but one should not just assume it explains and invalidates all if to truly be thorough.

So would you feel guilty if you fucked a stupid girl?

I didn't mean like penetrative sex. Obviously that isn't physically possible.

It was a randomly chosen age. I was aiming for a low number that I was fairly sure we both would object to. I wasn't saying that was the age told to me. 5 is obviously young enough one should assume by default their consent is most likely unacceptable. BDSM isnt purely about size, strength or whatever or else dominatrix wouldnt be a thing since they can be smaller than the men. If natural selection had anything to do with emotional coping skills you would see a global decline in occurrence of mental illness and suicide but no data supports this. Yes, such coping skills of fetishisizing bad experiences exist but you're only assuming that is always the case and using such logic you can apply the same thing to adults too to conclude no one likes sex, it's all just trauma and people rewrite their memories of it. So without age as a basis how do you propose to distinguish this? Again and again you rely on age in all your arguments instead of explaining what is and what is not acceptable psychological criteria for ability to properly consent likely because it is hard to put to words. I admit I too have no outlined this well but I dont pretend I know the answer either. Physical ability is a lot more objective and easy to define as the ability to have sexual contact without significant or unusual physical damage and at that would be a good starting point at least so we dont wind up with total lawlessness. I am not saying physical ability should be the only factor it's just something everyone sane should agree on till the psychological aspect can be well studied in a way that isolates factors so people in general can make a logical moral guideline not based on preconceptions.

Physical harm is objectively measurable though so that is not comparable to the subjective value of the psyche. What do you mean instead of others? I never said those who had bad experiences were invalid. They are quite valid. I simply implied societal norms should be that which creates the least harm. The norms should not shame or praise those who have sex because too far one way or the other causes harm. I in no way advocate sex with children, I advocate sex with people that know what they are doing regardless of age whether I like it or not and of course this would create a naturalistic AoC based on physical and psychological rather than societal but what that age is where there is no one that can consent validly I have no idea.

I never implied that if it's okay with one it's okay with all in that age group or that one should assume if it's okay with most. I also never even said ability to consent alone makes it okay either. Intent of the other person involved also is important. Using your previous example a parent beating their child does not mean well and is causing physical and psychological harm and that is not just from society it is ingrained in our DNA to avoid things that hurt us or could kill us. I don't think it is okay to use people for sex not caring about them physically or emotionally and not caring if they can properly consent. It just isn't right. I am very against people taking advantage of or using others whether it is a child or an adult. Setting arbitrary ages with no flexibility invalidates what it means to have a valid consenting ability which in turn trivializes taking advantage of those over the age. Setting an age is okay if it has flex room but to set any age groupings of different guidelines for each should be based on scientifically valid evidence and deep philosophical thought not assumptions, outrages or religious bullshit.

Eh, I'd still say it's pretty bad. Like i can see why you could be attracted to teenagers but actual children? I dont get that to be honest.

A 20 year old stupid girl still has more life experience than a smart 13 year old. So no i would not feel guilty for fucking a fellow 20yo.

I don't get it either. This is purely hypothetical. Like if I was trapped in the body of a 5yo, I would still want my dick stroked. I don't see that happening, though. I don't think I've ever met a person that age that could understand the act. I'm just saying if by some freak accident this happened, I wouldn't object.

So what you're saying is that a person that clearly doesn't get what is going on is fine because she's 20, and a person that's 13 that does know is more manipulated somehow. I mean, I don't want to say it, but that sounds fucking retarded.

I can arrange that

How well did you know her? You would feel like you took advantage of anyone if you dont know them well because you reduce them to stereotypes. People should not have sex with people they dont intimately know. If you did know her well then it's your own fault of judgement not her ages fault.

...

Life experience differs by individual. Some people have more or less even at the same age to the point it is so extreme some teens have more experience than some 30 year olds.

No i wasnt defending fucking 5 year olds you autist.It was a talking point to discuss the general concept of the complexities of discussing morality outside of personal comfort zones.

...

I woke one day i saw that i had a Tinder match with a 18 year old. My parents were out of town for the weekend to go to a wedding somewhere.

So i invited this 18 year old to my place. Once she came she looked much younger then in her pictures. She came inside, and we went straight
to my room. So i knew for she wasnt 18, but looked 15/16. So i asked her ro be hounest with me and asked her how old she was. She said she was 13.

After she said that i just turned around and started just browsing the internet not know wtf to do. She was lying on my bed playing with my cat doing stuff on her phone.

I asked her till how late she could stay. She said she lied to her parents that she was going to have a sleep over with some girlfriends at one of their homes not far from mine.

How ever the sleepover was actually taking place, she just came to my place after apperently her friends told her she should fuck me. So i had her for the whole night.

And as she was half nakedly lying on my bed waiting to be fucked, a battle inside me occured.

On side saying: Just fuck her she wants it, and youre horny.

The other side saying: Dont, is not mentally equal to you, you are taking avantage of this kid.

And i ended up fucking her, feeling guilty afterwards.

Moral of the story:

Underage people like sex too, but are not equals to Adult people. Sex with underaged people should only happen between Underaged people.

...

A bunch of adults just voted for Orange Hitler. Why the fuck are we still pretending that crossing an arbitrary age line makes one goddamn bit of difference?

The plural of anecdote is not data.

Five year olds don't have developed sex organs either.

Consent is generally understood to involve being informed. Even in law, consent can be considered invalid if it involved coercion or misrepresentation.

Read my post next time. I was referring to it as BDSM because of the physical injury and likely emotional disorientation that would be involved. Not just because of the power disparity.

I don't assume it's always the case, I point out that it's a possible explanation. As for adults, most adults don't think most of their sexual encounters with other adults as an adult were harmful. Compare that to what people think of their sexual encounters with adults as children. This is probably a better starting point for figuring out a standard; I broadly agree with the rest of this paragraph.

The difference that actually matters here is that the latter is difficult to quantify.
I'm not sure which part of my post you're referring to.
I agree with that.
I don't agree that it works that way, shame and praise aren't a spectrum, but I get what you're saying overall.
Yeah, that's pretty much my position, but that's not what I got form your other post.

I agree. The trouble with rules based on intent is that intent is even more difficult to measure than sexual competence.
The ugly reality is sometimes they do mean well, but their schema for understanding relationships is just warped that badly.
Likewise, sex involves psychology that is innate and a lot more complex (far from being well understood).
That's fine but you have to consider this in a context where there are people who want to fuck kids, for whatever reason. I don't know how much it's the physical vs. psychological that attracts pedophiles; I'm sure it varies wildly. Until we have a society that encourages agency and self-mastery at a younger age, my concern is that predators would use lowering the AoC and similar topics to make it easier to fuck kids in the existing system.

Oh yes! A fucking 43 year old Adult is equal to a 13 year old. I should just shut my fag mouth and accept the truth.

This is why no one is willing to take you guys seriouslly.

I was talking merely hypothetically. I don't think this would ever happen.

Those adults are wiser than you though,

You're not entirely wrong. You shouldn't because you're enabling whorish behaviors.
See

You should. This thread…

Now you're learning. Seriously, though, can you articulate exactly why this is inherently an abusive sexual encounter? Or is it another case of feels > reals.

Do you seriously want me to sit here and explain you how and why a 43 year old and a 13 year old are not equal ? A serious right all jokes aside.

I don't usually find a reason to say this, but back to Holla Forums with you. Only a Holla Forumsack would say that.

Sure it's possible but it would cause serious harm.

Here's what you said:
This is in the context of discussing whether sex with kids is harmful, which amounts to saying maybe sex with very young kids isn't harmful. On it's own it's a fairly neutral statement but given that it followed your defense of a common argument from pedophiles ("It's just society reacting to adult/child sex that's harmful"), I read it as an attempt to strengthen that argument. To be honest, I'm still highly suspicious of what you wrote. Maybe I'm wrong about it, I don't know for sure. If I am then you can take my posts as an example of what I described here

No, I want you to explain why sex between those two people is harmful to one or the other.

Also, your explanation must apply to all cases, no matter the circumstance, since obviously you think this is an inherent thin in sexual relationships.

Because, an Adult Can take avantage of a Child. That possibility exsist and you are gonna have to accept that. Age of Consent Law exsist for this pure reason. To protect the childern. So that pedos can not take avantage of kids.

Sex is only but fucking only right, when both parties are equal.

She wants it is not a valid reason.

While I do agree that it's possible to have a loving relationship with a teenager,

this is also important to keep in mind, I doubt it's difficult to make them think what they want is what they need.
Wouldn't be worth the risk for the kids in my opinion.

While I agree with you for the most part I just can't agree with
There is so much inequality that you would literally be saying all sex is rape. Just no.

So, then shouldn't you just make it illegal to take advantage of a child instead of instituting an arbitrary age limit?
So no inter-racial dating, sex between social classes, or between men and women, right?
Why not?

What risks are you referring to?

I'm not too sure on that one to be honest, equality relates to too many things to be honest.

Well, forced sex? Pretty sure rape is traumatic
If by chance the person was actually grooming the minor then that's also a risk.

I think we can make rape illegal without age of consent, do you disagree?
Define grooming.

With equality im refering to:

Equal mentality, equal life experience and equal financial status. ( with the kid being from a family that is not poor so older wealthier people cant take avantage by using money).

I dont remember the exact definition so I just googled it

"Child grooming is befriending and establishing an emotional connection with a child, and sometimes the family, to lower the child's inhibitions for child sexual abuse. It lures minors into trafficking of children, illicit businesses such as child prostitution, or the production of child pornography."
that sounds awful to be honest, the rape thing I guess is illogical seeing as the law sorts that out.

I guess technically speaking there's nothing wrong with fucking them apart from it being morally wrong, and making you pretty much hated by everyone who finds out about it.
Like it's literally just society going "you're disgusting" everyone following it, because we all believe it is.

I don't know how to properly explain this to be honest.

So dumb people shouldn't date smart people?
So poor NEET guys shouldn't date rich girls?

So simply being friends with someone before fucking them is grooming too, then?

FTFY

If you don't know how to properly explain something, might it be because you might be mistaken about something being an inherent reality?

Note, I'm not saying I want to fuck kids. I don't. Mostly I'm just playing devil's advocate. However, what I am saying is that the issue isn't as cut and dry and that I do not believe that the age of consent is a valid tool to prevent sexual violence.

A smart 43 year old dating a stupid 43 year old is not the same as a smart 43 year old dating a smart 13 year old. No mather how smart a kid is.

Your lust for childern is blinding you comensence for morality.

Does sex have to be "equal", or is there a minimum threshold of knowledge?

I'm married to a 24yo woman. I'm not after kids. I just don't get why there is such a visceral reaction to something that is so mundane.

Would you hounestly be comfertoble with the idea of a 43 year old having a sexual relation with your kid ? (lets you you have then in case you dont).

No grooming is the pure intent of making a 'connection' and then using that connection soley for sex, lets say you have a 14 year old friend, you're 30.
You dont think "I want this friend for sex." You think "I like this girl, she's nice" However when grooming you'd go "I want this girl for sex"
I am hugely confused on this to be honest, I'm not too great with subjects like this. I can believe why we shouldn't fuck kids because it has a chance of fucking them over, and well it just to me seems creepy too. However on the other side I can agree with it being ok as long as it's fucking rape. But subjects like this are always difficult because unlike the society we wont just go
"LOL SUBJECT IS HARD AND TABOO [censored]"

Also I noticed you replaced Moral with spooks? That a leftypol thing? I rarely come here and in fact I most often come from Holla Forums to be honest, but unlike them I dont just fucking shout cuck at everything, I like a normal, "calm" discussion.

Now you're appealing to feels, but honestly, if my son/daughter wanted and understood what sex was and they wanted to date a person of that age, I wouldn't be against it. That doesn't mean I wouldn't counsel them on matters like that. Fuck, when I was a kid, the best I got for fucking that 17 yo girl was an attaboy. Wish my dad had told me I could do better.

Thats not okay man, all i can do is hope that you will come to your sences and realize that Adult/Child relations is not okay.

So are pick-up artists sex criminals, then?

M8, wat

Morality is defined by society. Evolutionary speaking, morals are defined by what is best for the species, and for humans, what is best for society. In this way, morals are not set in stone, of course, if it can be shown that sex with adults is inherently harmful, not matter what, then I would change my position on the subject.

You're starting to sound like a cuck. :^)

You haven't yet explained why it's not okay. I would honestly be fine if it was a mentor kind of relationship where the older person is like a second parent. Of course, I cannot have children (or rather my wife can't), so whatever I think is irrelevant.

There is no explanation needed. Its self-evident. You are eighter morally normal, or not.

Do pick up artists have an intent on fucking kids?
If you're grooming someone underage for sex it's just grooming. I dont know how the damn legal-ness of it works yo.
The rape thing. Meant to be NOT RAPE. Rape is possibly one of the most fucking disgusting things to ever exist.
I can agree with the morals though, they do change with time. Hence why pedophillia is called pedophillia now.

"cuck"
I dont often say this because it's just useless but

Kill yourself : >

But honestly, at the end of the day.
It's impossible to decide if it's ok or not. Because of the way 50% says yes and the rest say no. We'll most likely never find a conclusion. But these discussions are enjoyable!

Darn I wish I remembered the term "informed consent" before I made my post having to make up other terms. I'm just saying as long as they can talk or display proper body language they can consent but consenting doesn't automatically mean it's informed so it could be considered invalid consent.

Sorry, I have a problem skipping words on accident sometimes. Still I don't think BDSM is a good comparison even though I understand you mean.

Okay that's good. Yes but what people think is also shaped by the status quo in society and their personal psyche so using opinions of those not involved alone isn't always the best way to figure things out.

It was this
I thought you were implying that I ignored other opinions and I was saying I didnt do that.

It's difficult to explain. Do you have a better way to put it?

I was hoping I was clear enough but oh well.

Many countries try though. For example marriage laws in some countries like the US legalize sex with minors of a certain age and it uses marriage and parental approval as a gauge of intent. This takes it a bit too much extreme though.

True, a parent can meal well in their abuse but you still can know it is wrong from the child's reaction to it and the physical damage they have which is always there even if they try to think it's okay.

But psychology isnt much of a science. People are only starting to understand the psyche. It wont really kick off to better understanding till neuropsychology and neurology advances further but even then I dont think the psyche can be fully known and undersood.

I think if you can figure out a way to give a logically sound reason not to take advantage that even a sociopath could accept it should help. To do that usually you have to avoid the moral implication and focus on what is in their own self interest. I dont think AoC protects children or teens how it's implemented currently. Most predatory people start looking to take advantage by the time they're only teenage minors and sometimes as kids even. AoC does nothing to stop or reduce predatory actions of minors to minors and adults to adults and minors to adults which leaves many victimized by focusing only on adults to minors with no discrepancy. This is very unfortunate.

That makes no sense. She was who seeked out and initiated the sex not you. You probably should have gave her a lecture on meeting up with people like she did since that can be dangerous but she would have had sex anyway if you didnt talk her out of it very convincingly. The age of who they have sex with is irrelevant what matters if they are in danger or being used and if they know what they are doing and stuff like that. So you're wrong to judge everyone the same as one girl you dont even know besides it almost makes you a hypocrite because you easily could have refused her but you did it anyway.

No, it isn't, otherwise you would have explained it.
3spooky5me

What if you want to be friends for friendsake and also know they want to have sex with them?

It doesn't matter. Is trickery the problem or isn't it?
So if it wasn't illegal to have sex with young people grooming doesn't exist, or is it an actual thing?
I really think there are worse things than rape. Rape isn't even at the top 10.
My dog died that way. :(

The sure are, just like sex with underage girls. :^)

Good god, I've been on his page for more than four hours now. I need help :'(
I dont know how to reply, like yes? I dont know.
Grooming is an actual thing, its done a lot. I dont have evidence on me because I cant be fucked and I am eating a really nice cake you know.
Eh personal opinion, rape just pisses me off. I'd rather be shot in the dick 5 times than have someone I hardly know be raped.
my two dogs are still alive : ) : ) :) Get fucked xDDD
To be honest, I can only assume sex with underage girls is nice but as a virginfag and someone who is still in college and is also a fucking faggot who'll never get it *sad face* I dont even know what they feel like.

Well like, I dunno. Like i said before nearly 4 maybe more hours now. Brain feels very unbrainy
I can barely even see my hands now :'( maybe I should go to the doctors

You're here forever.
Well, the problem is that if trickery is the problem, then it's a problem no matter the age of the other person, therefore what you are saying is that lying to women to get them in bed is the same as grooming. If not, then what is grooming?
This is a claim, and I tend to agree that some people manipulate children to have sex with them. What I don't agree with is that this can be done to people that are already sexually active and know what they are doing. In a word, consent is the same all the way down.
Post pics. I'm on a cut.
You and I have different priorities. I love my dick too much.
*teleports behind your dogs*
*grooms and rapes dogs*
Dude, sorry to hear that. If you were my buddy I would get you laid, probably only older girls, though.

You want pics? Of my cake? Google black chocolate cake, should be good enough

heh, I probably wouldn't want to be shot in the dick 5 times now that I think about it, but you know. Rape is pretty fucking disgusting.

Get the fuck away from my god damn dog you son of a bitch.

You say that but aren't you a communist? We're the opposites, I believe in capitalism *board collapses*
also u doubting my weeby virgin powers? anyway not even that bad, as long as I contribute something to society I'll have at least one reason for my existence.

God damn, I can't handle that.
It is. I just think it's overrated as a crime.
NTR is a bitch, isn't it?
One of my best friends is a guy who is on his way to working for Goldman Sachs and believes the country should be run like a corporation or neo-feudalism. I can be friends with people of different opinions.
You're not a wizard yet. It can be done.

Ah OK. That was clearer in the next sentence.

Not what I think you were trying to articulate, but what I would say is this: I want sex to be value-neutral. Shame or praise for it is ridiculous. The value of sex, if any, comes from its context. It can be a tool to improve a relationship as much as a tool to hurt someone.

Yeah, allowing someone to consent for another person is nonsensical, especially when it comes to something like sex that's so ostensibly intimate.

In a similar vein, a doctor might mean well for a patient and perform surgery, leaving "damage" that will have to be recovered from. To a well-meaning parent hitting their seems to remedy a fault that makes it worth it. The difference of course is scientific study, and in that regard we're mostly in the dark when it comes to sex.

Sure. I'm using the word to refer to a person's mind, not the study thereof. Psyche is a better word for it.
Not by any one person most likely. The field as a whole forms a kind of meta-intelligence that could possibly understand psychology though.

Agreed. I would go so far as to tie this to identity politics or tribalism, the idea that group A wrongs group B as some immutable fact of life.

The thing is attraction isn't something that's subject to reason. Neither is the feeling of fulfillment resulting from acting on it. I figure the best solution is to find a way to have an alternative that's at least as satisfying and does minimal harm. I don't know what that would be though.

I'm not going to type out responses to the rest of your post because I think it's resolved.

As a human who has little to proper human female interaction in like 9 months now. I hope you die :)
Wait, goldman?
Jewish? *pol tingles*
That's what you think, I'm a level 260 warlock faggot. Fight me in Draenor pussy.
also really enjoying the fact that this went from slightly shitposting to full on shitposting. If we did this at Holla Forums I would've been castrated. Nice to see you're not all fucking retards. (pol included)

oh and the cake was nice, got some left with all my spit on it, want some?

Augmented reality kid fucking and realistic child sex bots maybe. It would give them an outlet and since they dont care about the motional connection I dont see why they would risk it just for something "real"

I'm going to crush you with my thigh muscles.

no u wont hahaha

What's there to crush when I never existed

Not all pickup artists use trickery though. Some things they do are fuckd up but some is totally acceptable.

Your spirit. I will crush the metaphysical aspect of your being.

You know, for communist scum. You're actually a funny human. You remind me of this other guy I used to know.
Before my computer killed it self along with all my steam account and skype.
I'd ask for your skype but anons must stay anons for an user who is not anonymous is only

A lie :'(

also I have no spirit. I killed that a long time ago.

Because most people would be totally turned on by a fine-looking 14 year old – as that's perfectly natural – yet today's insane laws make that a crime.

They are douchebags, but I'm going from a hypothetical perfect pickup artist. I'm going to post a short story for you guys to read. Tell me, is what the guy does here rape? I just have to find it. It's about a guy who can suddenly order people around.

Attraction to 14 year olds isnt pedophilia. I dont know any 14 year olds that havent hit puberty. Other than that yes many are attracted to young teens. In fact it's been proven in studies to be the majority.

laweekly.com/content/printView/2151355

To any reasonable person, sure. But most people and most laws are not reasonable.

Says the AnyCap.

Spook