How does Holla Forums defend pic related?

How does Holla Forums defend pic related?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_market_anarchism#19th_and_early_20th_century:_Mutualism.2C_individualist_anarchism_and_Georgism
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics
yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-nature
yourlogicalfallacyis.com/no-true-scotsman
ustr.gov/countries-regions/americas/mexico
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

We don't, the USSR was a mistake

How does your ideology differ from that of the SU?

Top heh

they can't

americans had the same on them after they became independent

Are you seriously under the impression that all leftists are statists?

It's not like we've had this thread 10000001 times.

How else are you supposed to force people who don't want to share their property, to share their property?

No such thing

It is. They lay claim to a thing that nobody owns, so it is theirs. Violent action against them is persecution and therefore totalitarian, not anarchist.

Revolutionary America and 20th century Eastern Europe are exactly nothing alike.

Yes, because 20th century Eastern Europe wasn't the land of the free.

The US rebuilt the economies of Western Europe with the money they had from sitting on the sidelines for most of WW2

Eastern Europe got privatized to hell in the 1990s and they're still not doing too hot. Albania in particular is still a shithole.

You're right, America had a fuck ton of war debts to pay off Britain, lost their main trading partner, and had an entire country to unite; all Eastern Europe had to do was just "distribute the means of production"

Albania has always been a shithole.
Ever since we got privatised, things have been looking up, but 40 years of communism is no small gap to bridge.

You're toothbrush is also mine kiddo

Still haven't answered my question, desu

No it isnt


Come and take it

If they don't want forced appropriation of property, then it's mutualism or voluntarism, not leftism.

Not an argument. So long as they lay claim to it and it is in their possession, it is their property.

When the eastern bloc broke up most of its citizens had a lot of their assets in the state in form of social security etc but after they broke up and the government reformed most of these assets instead of going to the owners all went to a small rich elite.

U fucking wot? First of all, America was supported by France during the revolution, so they obviously were able to trade with them, and the other countries probably didn't give a fuck either. In fact, they would probably leap at the chance to trade with them, since before the market was closed to anyone but the British.
Secondly, the revolution happened before the industrial revolution, in an era where the international trade mostly revolved around the American colonies and trade with India, and the US was a major exporter. The eastern European countries had no such advantage. If the American revolution had been socialist rather than liberal, the US would still have become a powerhouse.

...

Anarchy doesn't seem particularly viable tbh

Everything is a spook, therefore nothing is a spook.
If someone tries to take it, they can yield it, or defend it. If they yield it, it is no longer theirs. If they defend it, it is still theirs.
Something being a spook doesn't mean it doesn't exist or it isn't a thing.

...

Well what the fuck is the left, if not the appropriation of private property and making it public?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_market_anarchism#19th_and_early_20th_century:_Mutualism.2C_individualist_anarchism_and_Georgism

Even wikipedia thinks you're full of shit, guy

That's not what a spook is, fam.

heh

Social security is sadly, still a thing. I would know a thing or two about that, since I am Eastern European and I live here.

What you said is only really true of the former Soviet Union. Most of the other Warsaw pact states had far more equitable privatization programmes.

It is pretty undeniable that western Europe had a far better standard of living than the Eastern bloc.

If it doesn't belong to anybody, it is up for grabbing. No violence is declared.

You are stupid

Which is the complete opposite to the idea of private property being an universal right, do you even know what you are talking about?

Yes there is, as the act of apropiation is theft

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics

By killing them. If you don't want to share, you don't deserve to live in society. Easy.

...

SAD!

Property exists by grace of the other people who also hold property. Law is also a spook.

Again. If nobody lays claim to it, it belongs to nobody, NOT EVERYBODY. Therefore, it is not theft.

Equality is a myth, because it doesn't exist anywhere in nature. Stronger individuals exist, and weaker individuals exist. There is no system in place to make them equal.

nice anarchism you got there, buddy
acting violently upon people whose only wish is to be left alone, sure isn't totalitarianism

Wow, it's almost like anyone could do it right here and now, but no such thing has happened. Really sparks the neurons, huh?

Yeah, I bet the gulags are also an evil western capitalist imperialist invention to keep a brotha down.

Where did i claimed to be anarchist? There are a lot of corrupted fags that simply can not live in society. A person like Stalin is needed in order to keep socoety free of corruption.

The most corrupt structure to ever exist will certainly prevent others from being corrupt, because they don't want competition.
If corruption didn't exist, the USSR would have fallen long ago.

...

Toilets are a myth, because human nature is to shit.

Have you ever read the Prince?

Human nature is to shit. Shit breeds microorganisms which are potentially lethal to the body, therefore we invented a system where the excrement is flushed away, improving the general health of everyone.
Really makes me think.

Human nature is to die.
Why are you getting in the way of human nature?

Have you ever read history?

Human nature is to live and try to live as long as possible.
Communist nature is to starve.

Living is getting in the way of mans nature to die.
You're artificially creating ways to prolong life instead of just letting nature take its course.
You hate nature

No communist nature is to make a society where people filled with greed, hate, rage and corruption aren't allowed to have power.
Which is the world i live in.

Human nature is to breed. How does it feel to know you will fail as a human being?

If they find cooperation better than isolation or defense, good for them.

Communist nature is to shit in loo instead of literally everywhere.

Ever heard of self-preservation? That is also human nature.

Yeah they had ties with France, but those didn't last long :^), and that's precisely the point, European countries had a slew of different colonies and each other that they could've traded with as they were super powers, whereas America couldn't. It took America a "second" revolution for them to be recognized as a sovereign state.

Really? What if the state doesn't deem loos to be important enough to produce?

...

Capitalist nature is to make a society in which nobody holds power over anyone else. That is not the world I live in, so I'm going to make it that way.

Self-preservation is just an excuse to get in the way of nature taking its course.

Mate, who do you think the southern states sold cotton to before the civil war?

let your body naturally preserve itself by fighting of a cold or not taking shots.

Yes you live. You get fucked in the ass daily. You simply choose to ignore it.
Capitalism= Corruption.
Exhibit A: Portugal, the coutry i live.

I won't fail in this. Uglier, more beta people haven't.

that was literally almost a hundred years later you fuck. I was talking about the early post-revolutionary period.

...

If they like the conditions, they will accept them, and no harm will be done.
If they don't like the conditions, they will fight, and either win, or live in constant resistance, denying area to the enemy, until there is nobody to do harm to anymore.

Heh, I see where you're coming from.

No, self-preservation IS natural. Death is simply inevitable, and there's much to be done until it comes.

My body includes my consciousness.

Then let your body naturally preserve itself, instead of creating artificial means to do. Let your body naturally fight off shit bacteria.

What if the state passes a law saying is mandatory for everybody to have car insurance or else you pay huge fees and could go to court, yet all the insurance companys are private.
So the state is helping the private sector by forcing the people to give them money. This is true capitalism. This is a reality in my country.

I do get fucked in the ass daily. Taxation is a bitch, therefore I want it gone. That's a capitalist principle to hold, among others.

Why should I? If I want to preserve myself, I can do it actively as well.

Rent is a bitch too, get rid of it too then?

That is statism, not fucking capitalism.

...

Yes, a hundred years with the southern states built around exporting cotton. They didn't start trading then.

You're staving off death through unnatural means like shitting in the toilet.
Death is nature. Everything dies. It's the most natural thing in the world. Accept it.

No, rent is payment in exchange for a service. It is voluntary, and I can build my own house if I don't want to pay it.
Taxes aren't voluntary, and I am not content with the "service" I get for paying them.

What's a boss? What's the state?

You're working from the premise that I want to die.
Only ironically, famalam.

Taxation is voluntary too, if you don't like it, why don't you get the fuck out of your country? Just leave.

The state is a system which forces people to behave in a certain way by persecuting those who step out of line.

Nope, then I will be subject to another country's taxes.

I don't think you understood what I had said, prior to the market revolutions in America their economy had to become insular in order to survive. They had trade with France and Britain prior to the Napoleonic wars, and war of 1812, but that was surplus value.

yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-nature

acting violently upon people whose only wish is to be left alone, sure isn't totalitarianism

Wasn't me saying that, m8


Right-libertarians are really bad at thinking about power relations.


yourlogicalfallacyis.com/no-true-scotsman

Also, capitalism has historically always been dependent on the state to survive

Just like in your crapitalist utopia I'd always be subject to someone else's private property. But I can chose to die, right? then, die yourself as well

How is communism not an extension of self-preservation then?

...

You should want to die.
It's in your nature to do so
Why do you reject nature?

Haha

And they were in a perfect position to do that, because they had an entire continent to settle.

Therefore, its up to the people to decide if you can apropiate something or not, and we decided you cant, and wont let you impose hierarchy over us

Good job retard

Property rights let propietors charge rent, if you understand that it us up to the people to decide if something is apropiated or not, then it is understandable that people can decide not to pay rent, as they would not respect your property claims

Are you stupid?

Be nice to him. He's only a kid.

Claiming property is itself a violent act. You don't do anything positive in your relation to the object in question, all you do is declare that nobody else may use it under threat of force.

hmmm… I better form some sort of coalition with other people who don't want to share property with a bunch of parasite proles. Maybe we could cordon off entire chunks of land while we are at it.

Yugoslavias economy was around that of Portugals which is rather impressive considering the time it had during world war 2 along with economic sanctions

I don't defend this, but I hope you can defend the existence of the entire continent of Africa, the vast majority of Latin America and various places in Asia as the equivalent satellite states for cheap production compared to the USA and others.

Head over to Wikipedia and find me that chart, fam.

And the boss? Can I just step out of line and take home that Chevrolet I built in the factory he owns and is protected by the state nobody needs to defend otherwise in any other way?

Portugal, Spain and Greece, South Korea and few other countries that were crapitalist, but had dictatorships also had slow economic growth. THere is no way to defend it.
Tyranny is bad for the economy

Western trade with Africa is extremely marginal. The vast majority of trade occurs between countries of the same level of development.

As for your Latin American point we'll take Mexico as an example. The US largely imports manufactured goods from Mexico. ustr.gov/countries-regions/americas/mexico

This outsourcing of production is actually quite beneficial to third world nations, just look at China.

South Korea actually had quite good economic growth under its military juntas.

FTFY, without government/militia/police, we have chaos and pillaging.

Because it hardly resembles trade. And yet over half of all minerals required to make everything from metal to PCBs and chips comes from there. See: French Congo, which is basically Silicon Valley's personal supply.

Haha. No it doesn't. It doesn't anywhere, except for the bourgeoisie, or the proverbial "one percent". The rest gets only a small slice of the pie and is told to shut up or have nothing at all.

>ustr.gov/countries-regions/americas/mexico
Now compare living standards. Also ask yourself why beaners would be desperate enough to cross the border and work slave wages over there instead of back at home.

At the barrell of a gun, anything goes. Is that your message?

Back then merchants didn't give two damns about embargoes and did trade with us anyways due to lack of any meaningful naval security imposed

You should be using GDP per capita PPP not overall GDP.

GDP per capita is still a shitty way to measure economies tbh
If one guy is making most of the purchases it still is calculated into the population's allowances