Religion

...

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetoric
xkcd.com/1386/
newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/curtis-houck/2017/01/04/irony-msnbc-mother-jones-nyt-lefties-bemoan-how-no-one-listens-them
thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/312654-wikileaks-threatens-cnn-with-defamation-suit-over-pedophilia-claim
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

Why do you insist on forcing others into your framework?

Getting rid of religion (at least as it exists today) is a fundamental component of leftism.

BUt banning implies using the State to remove it. Also, really though, as long as some minds are free, must we enforce it? WHy are we obligated to cleanse the whole world?

Read Bordiga

Religion will disapear on it's own famrade. baning would just make people angry and more religious. Just let it die on it's own…
Today's true religions are sports competitions and consumerism. Stadiums and shopping malls filled with people meanwhile churches are empty or filled with old folks.

Various public figures have been predicting the "inevitable, inescapable demise of religion" since the 19th century, m8.

And given the significant correlation between religiosity and birth-rates, I don't think its leaving anytime soon.

It is dying, i have no doubts about it, but obviously it will take centuries. Everything in it's own pace. This things take time.
The human brain doesn't evolve as fast as computers.

Zoroastrians still exist. Mankind will always hold on to something that defrays the fear of the unknown. Doesn't matter what the actual belief is, there will always be a core that retains it.

Given climate change and resource depletion I think the system that deprives people of religious feeling through atomisation, anomie and materialism will end before religious feeling actually does

Look at Western Europe, religion is dying off like mad. Don't base your worldview on the super reactionary and backwards US/Eastern Europe.

The populations of which are mostly sustained by immigration from ultra-religious Third World countries and/or the children of previous immigrants from ultra-religious Third World countries.

And I'm not saying this in Holla Forumsish "MUSLIMS ARE TAKING OVER", West Indian/African Christians in UK are much, much more religious than their white peers.

Also membership in the so-called "liberal" churches (i.e. Mainline Protestantism, Reform Judaism, liberal Catholics etc) is collapsing, while that of more "fundamentalist" varieties is rising - it turns out when you boil religion down to "just be a good person, idk" people wonder why they should even bother remaining in that church

THat goes both ways. The Tao of the thing is practically palpable.

religion doesn't create retard, it just attract them.
banning religion will not solve the problem.
retards will find another spook

Is Christian leftism pretty much the worst branch of leftism?

I mean, it gave us Tony Blair and the Third Way.

lmao this whole post

Banning religion just increases its fervency in some cases: see Ataturk and Turkey, and Iran and the Shah.

But in other cases it works, like in the DDR.

There was no outright ban on religious practice, it was just discriminated against, i.e. many churches were infiltrated by Stasi agents.

Ultimately however other factors were at work. Sure persecution of the DDR probably had a significant impact on the collapse of religious belief, but religious belief simultaneously declined in the GDR as well, and continues to decline in both parts in the reunited Germany

But it's generally pointless to argue these kind of things on Holla Forums, since the analysis of human behaviour here really hasn't evolved past Enlightenment-era blank slateism, psychoanalysis and DUDE SPOOKS LMAO

I'm not sure if Stirner was explicitly anti-religious, as much as anti-dogma.
For instance, every enthusiasm is considered a religion to Stirner.

God, leftism is the university's student little hobby now. Leftist movements or organizations in the West introducing their messages and existence with blatant or insensitive anti-religious sentiments to the masses were a mistake.

God isn't real and you're stupid if you believe in it.

...

i think you should read my post again

Left wing ideologies are more towards materialism.
Liberal churches fail because they do not follow tradition.
The catholic church is hemorrhaging people because they are liberal modernists, not Catholics, they no longer actually practice the religion of Christianity, they practice liberalism.
Liberal modernism is a poison on any religion, its gives in into an outside force rather than following tradition.
Would you rather have millions of secular dummies follow your religion, or thousands of die hards who actually know what they are doing.

Anyways, even if you are an atheist, the ideas of Christianity are ingrained deep into the roots of western culture, the ideas of redemption and forgiveness, you see the sjw's they remind me of evangelicals, they both hate sex, they both hate depictions of nude women, white muh privilege is the lefts version of original sin.


Western culture wasn't always like this, it used to be based on greek ideas of heroism, you can see it in the old mythological texts.
There are still echos of stuff from there, like stoicism, and cynicism and hedonism

What's the matter, did you run out of fedora jaypegs?

Stirnerites are not necessarily left. They are opportunists.

Hedonists and cynics were the first liberal modernists. The stoics were the neoliberals.

I'm not arguing that. I'm not even arguing in favor of religion. I'm just talking about the left organizations and movements that right away talking about banning religion and insulting the religious straight up to the proles. Their tactics should depend on where they're located.

It's like they're trying as hard as possible to be unappealing.

Then you would do well to mind where we are: a virtual space available mostly to developed, intelligent people.

People just dont get how everything leads back to greece.
People make fun of dilbertman scott adams for all that persuasion shit, but the greeks practiced that too, they just called it rhetoric

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetoric

Or what was known as sophistry and first became criticised in Plato.

I'm talking about real organizations that do stuff in the real world.


Stop sucking this board's dick. The people here are such dumbasses who never read and are only able to meme. Unfortunately, this is the best leftist site I know of. The quality has gone to shit recently

I am not referring to any board or site in particular. I only mean that where there are more computers there is an inverse correlation of less religious people, or at least less people serious about their religion.

What's wrong with religion? I can name things wrong with specific religions, but why religion in general?

Greece and religion is dying, more and more young people are just "religious" but only in the "yeah lul i am a christcuck" sense of way, they dont do anything christian, the religion is weakening more and more and will die out.

Though the shitter the situation the more worthless people will rush to comfortable religious delusions for comfort so it isnt really always gone.

If people have a good life they wont give a damn about fairy tales, if not they ll just live in a comfortable lie to avoid their shitty irl

That is why pretty much almost all religions are bad, outside a few asians ones who focus more on life and reality rather than giving explanations and saying things happened because of supernatural beings

Not only you are basing the "society" on lies and delusions who are dangerous and cause conflict once reality hits them because there are always smart people who dont buy that shit.

You also create an easy tool of manipulation that anyone with a brain can use to manipulate your delusional citizens.

A realistic world view based on actions and consequences is the only thing that a society should be based on, not morality, not goodness, not self sacrifice but mutual profit which is based on logic.

What do you mean?

Sorry mean Greece here,

What?
What did you mean by saying that Greece is dying?

There's nothing Holla Forums about the fact that their countries are literally being taken over by massive numbers of Muslim immigrants.

I didnt mean greece is dying, i meant "Greece here, religion is dying" as in my view from greece

Ah!
Just say, "Greek here, religions is dying".

Having faith in something doesn't mean you're being "brainwashed". That's silly. And nobody is claiming that just having faith makes the world better. Being good makes the world better.

I don't see why faith must necessarily be delusion or lies; in fact, certain religions are inviting you to see it for yourself (Buddhism is one)

Religion doesn't mean you have to throw out critical thinking, and it doesn't mean you have to follow anyone who claims to be representing the religion, and if you do, it doesn't mean you are beholden to following them. For example, there are Catholics who have become protestants. etc.

A Buddhist or Hindu would say that's literally karma.

To say these things "should" be followed, or that "mutual profit" is desirable is a moral claim itself. Maybe there is something higher or more noble in this world than becoming addicted to sense pleasures and running away from death.

Religion is all feels over reals bullshit however you slice it. If it weren't make believe nonsense it wouldn't require 'faith' or be called religion in the first place. That's what makes it poisonous. It's the ideology of wishful thinking instead of dealing with material fact.

Wow you certainly hitchslapped me out of having a nuanced, non-autistic position

Feels are real.

And that is what literally every religion is trynig to brainwash people into, brainwash them into "Do this, that makes you good, doing good makes you feel better". It doesnt matter if what it tells you is right or wrong, you jsut feel better by doing it, you can feel better by torturing different people

Good is SUBJECTIVE, it should never be used as a justification for anything because it just becomes a brainwashing tool to get people to do what you want without LOGIC.

Being in the sky, metaphysical "just" force, hell, heaven, bad people go to hell memes, be good boy etc, those are not logical, those are lies and delusions that answer people's ignorance and people accept them because they rather believe in bs than admit their ignorance

Another example of a delusion, there is no metaphysical force punishing bad people, if someone hurt you if you sit in the corner and say "karma will punish them" you are delusional since you are taking comfort in something that doesnt exist.
You are in control of life, because you dont fully control it people create all these generalizations and grant forces to feel they know how it works, but taht is nothing more than a defense mechanism that lives of delusions

The vast majority of people were never known to be critical thinkers, and when you provide them with answers and tell them to be a good person you are literally telling them "no need to think, i got all the answers"

Also them abusing their religion to justify their emotional hatred, homosexuality for example, when christianity says to love one another many christians use their religion as a justification to hate homosexuals and pretend this is about religion and not their petty feelings.

Morality these days is heavily based on emotion and doing the "right thing". That doesnt have logic in it, mutual profit means "i do this because i profit for x and he also profits from x", "we dont kill each other because nobody wants to live in a society like that" etc

...

...

nice meme


unlike your vangaurd revolutionary movement amirite?

Because religion is all about reason and not "do this because god says so and because a book says it is the right thing to do"
Much reason
Such rationale
So deep

We have laws if you want to follow a book. They are created based on logic and have a reason, a good reason at least most of the time

I'd say even moreso is the philosophy of indulging in sense pleasure until you die, rather than seeking anything else out. In fact, that's the ultimate *feels* over reals. You're trying your best to ignore death at every turn.

Some religions such as Buddhism have a stage in which there is no faith at all; that point is reached by "knowing", in the same way we have faith in various things in science, the scientist doesn't have faith - he's seen it first hand.

lol


You're missing my point. You don't do good to make yourself feel better, you do good to cultivate virtue, which not only helps others (out of compassion for them), but also helps yourself to have a clear and focused and calm mind that's at peace. I'm saying this from a Buddhist perspective, I can't really speak for other religions.

You're saying your opinion as if it's fact.

Do you know anything at all about theology? I don't mean this in a bad way, I'm just asking. The idea that "religion is just something have to cope with the cruel world" is hardly a nuanced view, and it's just a way to make yourself feel superior. We all have our own delusions.

opinion

Why is that necessarily delusional?

xkcd.com/1386/

Christianity != Christians

This kind of reasoning only gets you so far, and I can't see why one can't both think like that, and say "but also, my religion says murder is wrong - so I don't murder."

It's perfectly fine to live in a kind of "bubble" and say "I only act when it benefits me", but some people aren't satisfied with that, and they want to help others unconditionally, or out of compassion for them. Extending your own personal philosophy and saying everyone should live in that way is quite close to religion itself. And it's not religion like Judaism or Buddhism where they don't evangelise - no, your religion is one where you say everyone ought to live like you, having your philosophy.

You don't worship a God, you just worship the "self" and dogmatic materialism.

Good thing I'm not advocating hedonism faggot. Enjoy your imaginary friends I guess. Looking forward to you being purged.

I hope you become free of your hatred and ignorance, really I do.

I hope you're freed from your mortal coil to go be with the spooks you love so much.

Not really true, if doing what you believe is good didnt make you feel good you wouldnt be doing it.

Humans are selfish beings by design, we do things because we profit tangibly or mentally or to avoid pain.
By upholding your beliefs you believe you are doing good thus you are feeling good. Sometimes the belief is so strong that you would ignore physical pain in order to do what you believe is right which will result in you feeling a lot better since that belief for example is a very important part of you, that is after all how people die for their countries.

And lets analyze that for a bit, a country brainwashes its people into throwing away their lives, these people waste their lives just so the government can profit from other lands, do you believe it is the right and the good thing to do?

Because the brainless soldiers who are "proud patriots" believe what they are told to do is good and when they kill their "enemies" they usually feel better because they "did the right thing". As you see people are being used as a tool because they are taught to feel good about being born on x ground which is utterly wrong since people should feel good about their skills and successes since those are things they did themselves, but since most people dont have that it is easier to make them attached to nations, religions etc and then use them as a tool to get what you want without logic or reason.
(Of course PTSD exists, that happens mainly because society who tells you killing is bad but then the government pushes you towards killing people, kind of a bigger psych issue)

So people can do whatever they want and still feel like they are doing good, the nazis for example believe they were doing good, good is subjective and should never be used as a justification for one's actions.

People dont help others unless they profit, a rich person might feel better by donating to the poor, just like the average joe will feel better helping others because he is taught that is good, yet a person who believes hobos are worthless wouldnt help a hobo because his beliefs say "helping people like that is bad".

So if something doesnt feel good according to one's beliefs he wont do it, and when beliefs are based on subjective things like good, morality etc it is only a matter of time before someone twists it to fit their goals.

No i do not, because based on human behavior god is often used as a way to avoid responsibility, cope with ugly events or feel in control while you have none, there are psychological profits from believing in something, but that doesnt make it right, why? Because people will always exist who will see that and not follow religions, and guess what happens to people who point out a religion is wrong in highly religious areas? ;^)

In other words the existence of religion might comfort many people which could instead have just admitted their ignorance, became more self aware and focused on reality but instead chose the easy way out aka "religion tells me that so it must be true" which causes conflict with the few smart people who wont fall for the easy explanations, even a big greek philosopher was killed, and these people are far more valubale due to their knowledge than a religious person who is nothing special unlike a big philosopher who was killed for saying the truth.

Humans are a terrible species because of that, that is why i believe psychology should be researched heavily and be taught everywhere as a way for people to have more self awareness and stop falling for the traps of delusions, our mind will never truly comprehend the entire world, we dont know many things, and people should admit it instead of use metaphysical or religious explanations

Because you are taking comfort in the lie that x person will be punished because he did you wrong.
You are either going to get mad when you see that person succeed or you ll take every misfortune as "karma".

In other words you are making yourself feel better without actually doing anything other than telling yourself a comfortable lie that cant be unproven or proven.
I on the other hand would take action, because if someone hurts me, he will get punished, not by karma but by me.

That doesnt change the fact that people have always abused religions to fit their own petty issues. Someone doesnt like homosexuals? Try to hide your feelings and pretend you are doing the "good thing" by hating them because your religion says so even when your religion might not have any issue with it.

Because that is no logical reason, someone else religion might say "murder is good because it removes the weak", and many people will gladly accept that because without doing anything, they feel better because they are not "weak" since they are alive.

So they lie to themselves to make themselves feel better? The problem with that is lies are not reality, someone will point out the fact that you are living in a lie, and that will cause conflict.

And comfortable lies have always been more accepted than the truth so there is unnecessary conflict that only exists because people fall for comfortable lies when if they knew about psychology and human behavior they knew this is a problem and wouldnt fall for that.

This doesnt mean you are only doing shit because you are being paid to, you can still help others but again you know it is because it makes you feel better, not for some selfless reason you made up because telling yourself you are not selfish makes you feel even better because society told you that you must be good

In a world where reality matters the most and delusions like that are avoided people have far more clarity, why? Because delusions and attachments affect the way you think, for example a brainless patriot cannot imagine that their government did something bad and when that false belief is pointed out conflict appears again

tl:dr Delusions lead to conflict and harm and cause far more problems than they solve. And also makes people easily manipulated to smart people who realize "if i pander to their religion and connect their religion to my goals, they will do what i want".

A big reason manipulation exists is because of delusions, sociopaths thrive on it

Scientism.

The Left can't decide whether they like pedophiles–
newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/curtis-houck/2017/01/04/irony-msnbc-mother-jones-nyt-lefties-bemoan-how-no-one-listens-them

or not
thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/312654-wikileaks-threatens-cnn-with-defamation-suit-over-pedophilia-claim