Why are people so gripped by the myth of "Job Creators", Holla Forums? How can we dispel the idea that jobs have to be conjured out of thin air by Porky? That we don't need masters to perform labour?
I've noticed it's a beloved argument by reactionaries and Holla Forums alike.
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You need to get people to be less dogmatic and meet in the middle, as the truth is public and private sectors have a symbiotic relationship and the private sector need to think more long term and accept that killing the public sector will kill the private sector.
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Talk about the immanent appearance of worker-free industry and the effects its likely to have on the jobs their families depend on. Point out the contradiction between creating machines to make products that no one can buy because no one is being paid to make or do those things. Ask why we should be worrying about who has to work when if we ran the automated plants ourselves in some democratic fashion we could progressively make it so that no one has to be subject to the sorts of menial drudgery that those jobs relied on and free up people's time to do significant work instead.
Because the obsession of work is rooted in us by the sacred wedlock of government and corporations by the use of workist ideologues (e.g. conservatives, liberals, patriots, feminists, socialists) and culture riddled with a fervent work ethic in need of obedient workers to provide revenue and labor for them.
thanks fam
also I've saved that reading list. I've read Russell, very good article
How retarded.
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"Did you buy something today? Guess what, YOU'RE the job creator."
It's a religion at this point. Job Creators are gods to be worshipped, for without them there simply would not be an economy.
Go ahead enlighten me
Uh uh uh uh but how would somebody know to buy something it marketing didn't create the want?
Eh I'm pretty sure people generally underestimate how much effect marketing has on them. Especially the "worship job creators" sort.
Real socialists value hard work. You're just justifying your own idleness.
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The point is to automate and create a Universal Basic Income so we don't waste our lives are work, not to decrease production.
Yes. Be a dilligent drone. In no way can hierarchs take advantage of that.
why don't you just read the books user. read the books. the books are right there. just read the fucking books the fucking books for fucks sake user use your eyes and read the books user pls read
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Try creating a business with absolutely zero management. That'll prove those porkies you're not deluded!
If you think being poor is directly correlated to hard work than why are you on this board wageslave?… oh right it's probably Holla Forums. If you'd read even the most basic amount of theory you would know what you're saying is bullshit. If you knew anything about immigration or automation you would know what you're saying is bullshit. Keep on licking that boot!
hahhahha you STILL don't get it do you?
fucking dumb faggot. enjoy killing your movement you retarded dogmatic fuck
Yeah. That's what I am saying.
I am saying we should have a system where robots take over and perform our labour. I want to free up all the creative energy that'd come with that.
Management is already done by workers though. It's a type of labor.
There's no reason managers have to be designated by some autocratic private owner and not by the worker's themselves.
Management is obviously necessary for any large coordination of labour. Managers would still exist under socialism but they would be democratically appointed and not receive any extra wage for their work compared to the worker. A manager is necessary a 'job creator' aka an 'owner of the means of production' should be abolished.
GOD i hate it when this happen
You see, in full automation, maintenance labor will increase and replace most of the blue collar workers jobs, and transportation industry in the late stages will follow
Laborers will still be there to watch over the machinery and fix factories etc, Construction labor won't be replace in full it would be upgraded using robots but these robots won't make themselves, a white collar workers will still construct these robots in a factory using the help of other robots ofc.
What original automated communists wanted is this upgrade in labor from blue collar to white collar and lower labor time, labor is still in high demand no laziness will be allowed.
I read REAL automation theory not this anarkiddy bullshit.
hahhahha you STILL don't get it do you?
fucking dumb faggot. enjoy killing your movement you retarded dogmatic fuck
err a manager is a footsoldier for porky
you'd know this if you ever had a job in your life
Yesthey are…but what if…hear me out dude…we like…got rid of porky…and made management the domain of the worker…and didn't give them any special considerations above other workers…and if they got out of line…they could be democratically voted out of their position…whoa…sounds like socialism or some shit…
I'm probably the least edgy person on this board right now.
Go read up on your theory again so you know what you're supposed to think you tosser.
I guess that is why automization in modern economies in no way shape or form leads to wage-suppression and under-consumption…
: ^ )
Sounds pretty edgy to me faggot. 'What you're supposed to think?' Get outta here with this spooked shit I ain't 'supposed' to think anything groupthink pussy. Pls go back 2 Holla Forums
…that happens because of capitalism. In socialism or communism instead of not having to be paid as much the workers share the benefits of efficiency equally.
This. Under socialism and communism most people will still have to work but automation will decrease the length of the working day to a very small amount leaving most of the day to pursue other interests. When people on this board are anti-work they are confused, we need to abolish 'work' as a concept for the benefit of porky but labour will never be abolished. The quality of work under capitalism will be radically different to the quality of work under socialism. The labouring for direct social goals and the emphasis on personal pursuits will eradicate the concept of 'work' and give it a renewed meaning. Work will be gone but our society will not be completely idle.
lmao, I would insult you again but you seem like you'd be too stupid to know what I'm saying.
Eventually we will be more or less fully automated, but well before that point we will be able to have an economy based entirely on volunteerism. People already contribute to free software because they find it fulfilling a similar model will take over labor in general before we achieve full automation. That is, assuming we implement a form of socialism and/or communism first.
What exactly are you saying user? The only thing that you've said in this thread that I'm aware of is 'muh theory' and that theory is bad. What is your position on this topic? Why are you so anti-theory?
WHICH WAS MY FUCKING POINT YOU KNOB-HEADS
Now, I won't tell you to kill yourself, because you will eventually do that on your own with significant losses in life years from stress and needless exertion. It's all up to you.
I could do your job for you, but since you're quite content in it yourself if your posts are anything to go by, I'll leave you to it.
Why not? Why not automate maintenance labor by making robots which fix and maintain each other and/or themselves? For someone reading """real theory""" you seem to base it all on assumptions.
But that is pretty much the point of those anti-work books say and yet you said that they were stupid. Since you said those books were gay you confused everyone in the thread since this is how this argument started.
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Nah famlamladmangrade, Farming is very comfy and calm the mind, the feeling of pleasure of eating the stuff you grow yourself is so fucking good.
1-Ethical and technological constrains on Advance A.I
2-Utopian, we want something that can work here in the mid to late 21 century
3-Not adaptable to a socialist pre communist phase
I actually had an old millionaire tell me that he wants Basic Income available for everyone.
He hates the cut throat, libertarian types.
Have you ever actually lived and worked on a farm? The stress of trying to make money, having to deal with millions of issues daily, poor death damaging your crops, it's not such a peaceful life that Zizek has.
And just how the fuck are we going to reach to the point that everything is automated and we have UBI by not working? Retarded liberal.
Why cant people understand that automation and a reduce in the SNLT are not the same thing?
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Good to see Blyth getting some love
Exactly. Last time I took my car to be repaired all the work was done by a well-trained horse. In fact, there are now even more jobs for horses in the maintenance industry than there ever were in the transportation and power industry.
My whole life
I didn't say that it is easy, it is just maximum comfe
You talk in the capitalist logic of automation not the communist
I am a techno skeptic, we should put a limits on the use of advance A.I and instead allow a degree of human labor in the automated society
Por ti
Honestly?
They're spooked.
Many people who live under capitalism have to believe that the bourgeoisie are creating jobs rather than simply facilitating them. It's the only way they can justify letting their labor prop them up.
Combine that with ignorance and fear of criticizing of the system because you might be labeled a dirty commie, and you have perfect little wage slaves.
Why the fuck do you think we're seizing the means of production?
explain?
You'd rather that "public unions" create jobs?
Well, I'll gladly let a robot do my share of the work. If you want to keep working, that's your choice.
Automation implies the situation in which human labour is no longer necessary
Think about air being filtered, we dont need to labour in order to filter
This should be the basis for automation theory, a ma hine made to increase the production of commodities does not help in amyway, as it is not self-replicating, self-healing, self-fueled, self-improved and so on
I'd rather all jobs be eliminated
Jobs are never created or destroyed, your "right" to do them is merely made more or less contingent.
Cf. the broken window fallacy
You will delve back into alienation you know.