Can someone explain all the ways Trump isn't a fascist/nazi? Im not a liberal or a concern troll...

Can someone explain all the ways Trump isn't a fascist/nazi? Im not a liberal or a concern troll, Just looking for arguments to use against liberals.

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Yeltsin
youtube.com/watch?v=_FLo14GMYos
jacobinmag.com/2015/12/donald-trump-fascism-islamophobia-nativism/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_fallacy
craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/10/opposing-populist-chauvinism-not-elitism/
twitter.com/AnonBabble

He doesn't reject modernity and doesn't care about tradition. He has no intention of instituting a secret police intent on violently curbing political dissent with no legal restrain. He doesn't support war, suffering and heroic sacrifice as a desirable and inevitable trait of human existence. He has absolutely no interest in creating a totalitarian State or to model a New Man, let alone on racial lines. All of that, among other things.

He's a crude right-wing neoliberal populist similar to Berlusconi, not a Fascist.

He's a populist and an opportunist. His policies have little to do with true fascism.

If Holla Forums is lucky he'll be America's Yeltsin

I don't think he even knows what any of those are.

Who is Yeltsin

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Yeltsin

Some drunk who crashed russia with no survivors

Remember to sage liberal concern troll posts

are you a new user?

Donald Trump can't be a fascist. Liberals don't know how the political system in USA works. His power as president is very limited. Donald Trump is narcissist, arrogant, nationalist and a huge capitalist. He is not conservative (but his cabinet picks are extremely conservative) and he's not a fascist, he says some fascist things just to get attention from the media.

youtube.com/watch?v=_FLo14GMYos

I was at a meeting and someone pointed out that if Trump was a fascist, our organization would need a few guards at the door, because Trump would be sending armed thugs to dismantle workers' organizations.

It might not be in his plans but I wouldn't put it past republicans

People will say "he's a step in the wrong direction" or "I'm seeing the signs". Just point out that they're using the slippery slope fallacy.

He seems to be shaping up to just be another neoliberal republican based on all his cabinet picks. He may have exploited some far right sentiments on the campaign trail but his rule will be a cuckservative one. Fascism is way too anti free market to enter into mainstream American politics really.

How about ask them to explain how he is first, and then work from there. Protip: saying meaning things isn't the definition of fascism.

I didn't see that at all. I saw the media kept claiming it and kept trying to pretend there were far right sentiments in there, but I couldn't find it. That's why I didn't know what Holla Forums was so giddy about. He just seemed like a normal centrist Republican who focused more on borders and immigration and had the foreign policy views of those opposed to the Bush doctrine, something that suddenly disappeared during Obama.

Don't bother debating liberals. You'll just sound like the lefty echo chamber.

Has anyone done a comparison with McCain's campaign? I remember him running on increased border security and toured with Sheriff Joe what's his face.

Read this.
It should help

jacobinmag.com/2015/12/donald-trump-fascism-islamophobia-nativism/

What confuses the hell out of me is how The skeptics who supported Trump don't realize that he's a danger to freezed peaches more than Shillary was. He wants to literally make it easy for people to sue journalists who write things that they disagree with. He's a fascist in my book.


Didn't trump's associates say that during his Presidency he would be funding a private security team to track dissent, similar to the things that showed up in his rallies?

Thats not a slippery slope fallacy and ironically trying to refute an argument by screaming "fallacy" is just another fallacy in itself

hes not a fascist because fascism is a thing of the past, however he does perpetuate neofascism and make it popular with people again. fascism is not a black or white thing btw, after ww 2 the governments of both the west and east looked at fascism and thought it was actually working pretty well, nowadays especially the US has many elements of fascism incorporated into society. trump just gives justification towards expanding and adding to that list


that was the case before bush but ever since 9/11 the presidents power has been growing and growing. executive orders are a very powerful thing

...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_fallacy

...

Fascism in Europe in the early part of the 20th century grew out of the peasant and petit-bourgeois classes, and was able to succeed only when all Communist and Socialist organizations (grown out of the working classes) had been crushed.

Fascism as a political ideology appeals to the petit-bourgeois and peasantry, while Communism appeals to the working class (even if they don't know it; for example, the American working class mostly don't even recognize themselves as working class and certainly don't consider Communism appealing, but ultimately Communist ideas would be preferable to them personally than Fascist ones).

Given the proletarianization of people over the last 100 years, the petit bourgeois and peasantry are now almost non-existent classes, and the working class is bigger than ever before. There is fundamentally no material class basis for Fascism (as we understand it) to arise again.

Classic, that's a fallacy right there buddy.

More importantly, are you 12 years old?

He doesnt care in general, his goal is money for him and his friends.

If something profits him he will, and he is already manipulating the people against the press so morons will listen to him instead of anyone else

Then you don't know what the word means. I might as well say that Corbyn is a communist "in my book".

Okay, liberals are using fascist as just a cheap insult basically meaning "scary right wing guy".
Fair.
Let's look at the facts tho:

- Identification with a false and mythologized version of the nation-state, "Make America Great Again"

- Emphasis on male virility and vitality (this is way more important than you think), "Low Energy"

- A call to a kind of pseudo-revolution in which the Bourgeois are temporarily displaced by individuals attempting to be the new Bourgeois and nothing more "Drain the Swamp"

- Identification of an insidious destructive foreign demographic that is invading the nation state and must be purged "Build a Wall", refugee situation, etc.

Okay, so is Trump HIMSELF fascist? Not in the slightest. He's a corrupt businessman who is going back on literally every promise he has made (not unlike Obama) and his primary interest at the present seems to be granting his friends the power that has been stripped away from them by the Obama regime i.e. Wall Street, Oil and Coal companies, Right Wing Media outlets, etc.

Now, is the false, media-constructed vision of him in the eyes of his supporters a fascist? ABSOLUTELY.

Is the Alt-Right a fascist institution? ABSOLUTELY

Excuse my use of caps lock here, I really want people to listen to my ideas here because I think the fascism imbued in the Alt-Right is being ignored on this board.

MAGA was from Reagan. Drain the swamp was Berniewave left/centre-populism anti-corruption. Immigration is a problem in the USA. You're a liberal living in a liberal bubble, so you do not understand conservatives. They don't think he's a fascist, they laugh at the MSM, and delusional liberals like you all the time.

What liberals say they believe and how they functionally act are two completely different things.

Come on bro
Exactly my point tho. The Reagan era was a wonderful time for the Suburban middle class, plenty of jobs, a moralistic patriotic culture, etc. but what was really happening? Junkies were being left to die, Gay men were dying of AIDS with no response from the government, unemployed people had to sleep on the streets, etc.
Hence the mythologized version of the nation-state. It's a fake past that never existed.

lmao of course they don't

k thanks 4 letting me know

He did. He's an opportunist. Duh.
You're more reasonable than a lot of libs, but still missing the mark. All political philosophies fall prey to mystical romanticism. You think a lot of leftists salivate over my glorious Soviet past that never existed either?
You were arguing that they do see him as how the liberal media, which they do not trust in the slightest, hysterically portrayed him, rather than ignoring it altogether. Which is it? Consistency is not a liberal strong point.
netime qt3.14

Let's look some of the rest of your post:
lol, Obama wasn't in bed with Wall St???

Wait, so you admit the DNC was actively controlling the media? Hrmm, that seems a little fascist to me.

You fail to compare him to Hilldawg, the ultimate in organicist corporative class collaboration backed by, oh I don't know, all of global capital, who vehemently opposed muh Drumph. Why is that? What next, are you going to proclaim his statement "Republicans are going to be a workers party under me" eerily Hitleresque?

Didn't expect you to admit that.
Yes. I thought this was a given, we're on Holla Forums. I hate the DNC.

I guess I misunderstood about Bernie. I thought you meant that Bernie was a part of the swamp that Trump was draining, not that he was appealing to Bernie

True, fuck Tankies and all that, but I think the difference is whether people acknowledge the danger of nostalgia and historicism, which is what Fascism is ultimately built on. A conservative revolution.
When a lot of Trump supporters think "MAGA" they are thinking of what I was describing.

No, you misunderstood me. When I say "media-constructed" I mean all of his campaign, the propaganda, Right Wing and Alt-Right media outlets, Right Stuff, Breitbart, Holla Forums etc. They all bought into the image of himself that Trump and his campaign team meticulously constructed. Some of them like Breitbart even knew that this was a false image, but went along with it anyway.

I could talk about her bullshit for hours, but let's stick to Trump for now.

I could, actually. False appeals to the working class are a hallmark of fascism. Hence National "Socialist" German "Worker's" Party. But it seems you already understand this.
On another note, it seems that Fascism also makes an appeal to the most popular intellectualism of its time, an idea that I've been considering ever since the rise of the Alt Right. Whereas the Nazis and Fascists appealed to worker's revolution, which was the most popular subject amongst intellectuals at the time (everyone from Sartre to Heidegger to Einstein talked about it), The Alt-Right seems to be appealing to the past wave of logical positivism and scientism favored by the New Atheists. Not saying that the Alt-Right is new Atheist, but what I'm seeing is that many popular Alt-Right movements are adopting names that appeal to the idealism of science and positivism, hence "The Dark Englightenment" and "American Renaissance" the "National Policy Institute" etc.

Nazism drew more from the Revolutionary Conservatives, but both Italian and German varieties had massive bourgeois progressive wings, and were heavily futuristic. They weren't trying to reestablish the old monarchy were they? The progressive left of the time was also heavily into some nasty shit like eugenics, which got abandoned after the war. Muddying the realities of history for propagandistic effect is bad "praxis". Only an unflinching approach to the past is truly unsentimental.

Civic nationalism and classical liberalism isn't proto-fascism, it's literally what we're supposed to already have, neoliberal corporatism is bad, bad news. And the liberal narrative spiced up with Marxian rhetoric you're peddling is dangerous, because it fools you into thinking you're not working for the same system you oppose.

A lot of people are patriotic. It's not that shocking, or interesting. Bernie was literally saying the same shit, "this country", "our people", returning to the glory days of the New Deal. Literally the same, just tuned to different audiences.

They were using post modern irony and humor. They were trying to make conservatism cool and sexy by making it the edgy thing as opposed to the sanctimonious and dour (bourgeois to the core, think Victorian) moralism of the SJW left, because these people are inherently easy to push buttons on and don't "get it". It's the cranky humourless Religious Right vs the American rebel image. It's not fascism. I don't think it's particularly concerning. What drives fascism is things like uncontrolled mass immigration, which if Trump manages to fix, will reverse any such trend. I'm more glad of his geopolitics, if he doesn't accidentally fry us over a tweet.

Terrifying. Next we'll see that democracy is bad because of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

The popular intellectualism is the maudlin "theory" the diploma mill colleges pump out while sticking you with the debt, and possibly dumber than when you came out.

Haha, oh come on now.

trump isn't fash or nazi, he's just a bush / reagan-tier neocon pleblord who won't do shit

Aside from everything else in this thread that has been said. I'm sick of every racist being called a nazi or the two being synonymous words now.

My great grand father was a racist and he still went to go fight dem Nazi's in WW2. I'm sure a lot of white European and American soldiers who fought them had racist attitudes/mindsets. The lady down the street could be a racist, that doesn't mean she wants to systematically see people gassed or burned. Having an ounce of racism in your thinking doesn't automatically make you Hitler.

I think that is the problem a lot of people have with identity politics today, if a person is even slightly backward in their thinking people automatically assume they're equivalent to the worst racists or sexists that ever lived.

Trump is a somewhat different case because he will have a lot of power and could make things worse for already disenfranchised people, but again that doesn't automatically mean he wants to start stripping the gold from 2 Chainz mouth and running him down the mine shaft.

...

And Hitler was an art school dropout who once went to prison. What's your point?

My point was the more substantive post above, just making fun of you here.

>>>/reddit/

Shillary's machine had nearly complete control of all televised and print media, as well as any "official information" from state outlets. We were more or less getting the same media most one party states get, along with how over the top absurd most of the coverage was. This control of information would have not only maintained its state sponsored position, but would have been rewarded for such activities. Even after the election they're still playing Orwellian games with their coverage of Russia and who gets silenced for wrongthink on these issues. It's not even close as to who the bigger danger to free speech was, we were quickly becoming a one party state with most of the congress and state governments rendered powerless.

You know, people don't really care about freedoms they can't exercise themselves, like "freedoms" of large globalist media corporations. They worry about not getting fucked for their facebook post.


It's already well-established that his goal was personal recognition. Facing a choice between feeding his wallet and ego, he'll choose ego, making him arguably less corrupt and corruptible than most politicians.

And the press already lost all credibility before he even decided to run.


Uh, nope. Nobody fucking believes the media anymore, that's the point. Trump won because they knew he's not what they were told he was. You could probably argue he won because people didn't even believe things he actually was.

You mean people who idolize Richard Spencer, or people who idolize Milo Yiannopoulos? Because the former is indeed a fascist, but they're few and meaningless, and the latter is an anti-authoritarian homosexual libertine Jew. I mean come on.

Trump and Milo et al don't have a clear ideology.

"hey kids, I hate the snooty media too! also, fuck immigrants!"

That's it. They stepped in and said the things that no one else normally would, and by this simple fact they managed to stand out and appeal to a number of people who had been suppressing their terrible anger and looking for an outlet.

We can compare this trick to fascism, which I suppose is similar in that it also exploits youthful energy and repressed anger while finding a scapegoat.

But, get this, there is no ideology behind this new trick, at all. There is no mythology, nothing to cling to. In fact, Trump will adapt to the situation and change his beliefs on the spot, fully exploiting the short attention span of the average media-addled westerner.

Hitler was an autist who really believed his own bullshit. Trump is a businessman who doesn't believe in fucking anything except beating the competition. I don't think Milo believes in anything either. He just found a clever way to sow controversy and to lure a horde of dorks to Breitbart, like a good click-bait journalist is supposed to do.

Although I just said that Trump and other anti-immigrant alt-right idols aren't actually fascist, it seems Craig Murray disagrees. He thinks fascism is exactly the direction that the UK government is taking and rips them to shreds in a recent blog post. This is pretty alarming, considering he has witnessed a real totalitarian dictatorship up close in central asia so I assume he doesn't use these terms lightly.
craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/10/opposing-populist-chauvinism-not-elitism/

Necessary elements for fascism according to Murray would then be zealous nationalism, accusing the left of being elitist and finally a complete, genuine focus on xenophobia not just to get votes but to really change the country in accordance with xenophobic views.

I still believe that Trump's xenophobia is just a ploy rather than a belief, and that he rewards his goons for sycophantic loyalty rather than for ideological purity. Then again, the other ingredients for fascism do seem to be there.