Has Marxist-Leninism finally been put to rest?

Has Marxist-Leninism finally been put to rest?

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No, it's alive and well. Rojava has the personality cult and struggle sessions, combined with a strong party in the PYD and the broader vanguard known as TEV-DEM. The Naxalites are also kicking around India, though much diminished from what they were.

Still the most popular form of revolutionary socialism worldwide. It's going nowhere anytime soon.

t. not ML

TEV-DEM is not a vanguard party, the cult of personality cannot really be acted upon since Apo is in prison, and the PYD does not have a monopoly on political power. Also, criticism and self criticism isn't unique to ML.

Pretty much. There isn't really anyone besides the Naxalites, and most likely they'll become yet another shitty socdem party once they realize they can't win.

Off the top of my head, there is the zapatistas, Rojava, and the Naxalites. 2 out of 3 pretty much reject Marxism-Leninism. Apo in fact considers Marxism to be inherently authoritarian (which he considers a bad thing) and reductionist.

Of course. Just keep in mind, that never stopped anyone before.

Picrelated: revolution's rise from the grave in 1848.

TEV-DEM is a vanguard under the leadership of the PYD; the cult of personality is being acted on despite Ocalan being in prison – his image is everywhere and he's regarded with reverence; and the PYD has an effective monopoly on political power, seeing as they're the largest party and actively organize and equip the YPG and YPJ. Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun, as they say. Self-criticism is synonymous with ML and MLM, especially in the form practiced in Rojava. Just because it's feminist doesn't mean it isn't a struggle session.

The strong MLM foundations are part of what kept the PKK alive. It makes sense that they would keep what worked while ditching the rest. Ocalan's position as party dictator is what allowed him to make the Bookchin turn in the first place. Some of the party cadre have been involved for 30 years or more – you don't just stop being a ML in terms of how you organize your party, your fighters, and your movement. And it shows.

TEV-DEM is a coalition of parties, not a vanguard party.
Ocalan doesn't have direct power, unlike lenin, stalin etc.
To say that they have a monopoly of power is to ignore the fundamental structure of self rule in rojava, and there are armed forces outside of YPG and YPJ to ensure this self rule. PYD has as much political power as the communes grant to them.
Except that the program in rojava, the institutions of political power and the diversity of political groups is what has so far made them successful, a program that is obviously not a program of Marxism-Leninism. PKK stopped being just a guerilla army and started being a truly revolutionary movement when they abandoned their ML program, even if this change did come from Apo.

Point being ultimately, it is not their similarities with ML that has made them successful, but their difference and rejection of much of it. To pretend otherwise is to be disingenuous.

Also Rojava has a highly decentralized political system, not a centralized bureaucratic nightmare.

It's "The Movement for a Democratic Society" – it was TEV-DEM that set up Rojava in its early stages led by the PYD. To argue this is anything other than a vanguard is wishful thinking.
Ocalan might not have direct power but that does not change the fact of a cult of personality around him.
The armed forces outside of the YPG and YPJ are dependent on the PYD for arms and training and are little more than local militias. That hardly constitutes a robust counter-weight to the only legitimate military within the Cantons.
A statement which has yet to be tested in any significant way – it's the same specious reasoning utilized by Stalinists of all stripes.
That's ridiculous. Rojava is successful because it's dominated by one movement, one party, and one armed forces. They've brought everyone from tribesmen to city dwellers under their banner and forced them to adopt their organizational principles, from shared leadership between men and women to anti-patriarchal struggle sessions.
>PKK stopped being just a guerilla army' and started being a truly revolutionary movement when they abandoned their ML program, even if this change did come from Apo.
The PKK never stopped being a revolutionary movement – they just became more palatable to the Western left. Integrating Bookchin and some material success went a long way.

I'm not being the one disingenuous; it's the people who think that the ML characteristics are somehow inconsequential that are disingenuous. It's actually shocking to see self-professed anarchists like Graeber go in and endorse Rojava, all thinks considered.
They have a parliamentary system over the top of their councils and communes and the Cantons are federated. That's hardly decentralized. The Soviet Union was also a federation, you realize?

Seems I'm dyslexic atm.

A central government != centralized power. They have a federal government sure, but power is devolved into the hands of the communes and more local levels of government. In the USSR it was the opposite, power was centrally concentrated.

Power is still centrally concentrated in the PYD and its armed forces and please don't pretend otherwise; it's not "the people" on the frontline, it's the YPG and YPJ. It's whether that power is meaningfully held to account by the councils and communes, and I'm yet to be convinced this is the case. I somehow doubt the conscription law originated in one of the lower councils.

The PKK and YPG abandoned ML a very long time ago.
Naxalites are obviously Maoist.
Can you read?


I would like to see your source one this, because it certainty isn't true in America.

Because PYD set it up does not mean it's a vanguard party. Any social movement =/= vanguard party.
But the cult of personality is ultimately irrelevant. He can't use it to express dictatorial power like Stalin, Mao, or Lenin did.
Who trains them is ultimately irrelevant. The YPG and YPJ don't have a monopoly on violence, not even in when it comes to offensives. The YPG are part of the SDF, after all
Except that it has already been tested. Policy making has been done on the commune level for a while now. Even things like conscription are ultimately determined on a commune/canton level.
Dominated by one movement? Sure, but again a movement does not constitute a vanguard party. The pyd certainly is not the sole party in the Syrian Democratic Council, they don't even constitute a majority. One armed forces? This is absurd, considering that the SDF is a conglomeration of different armed forces from different cantons, though YPG is the biggest faction within it. To say that it was forced upon is again disingenuous. Show me the purges in Manbij, or other areas that they've liberated.
ALL of their material success was gained when they turned towards bookchin
Parliamentary system is for purposes of administration, not policy making. There's a big difference.

Let's examine the qualities of Previous M-L states/parties, and compare them to Rojava

1. Enforce an atheistic state
nope
2. One party and One armed forces
Nope, plenty of other parties and the SDF is a conglomeration of different armed forces from different cantons
3. Policy being made solely by a bloated bureaucracy controlled by one party
Nope again
4. Said one party being controlled directly by a Despot
Nope again.
I could go on but I think I've made my point

Rojava doesn't have a personality cult like the Soviet Union and Mao's China had. They revere Ocalan as a philosopher, particularly his works. But there's as much of a "personality cult" surrounding Ocalan as there once was around Marx. The guy is also in jail.
And the political system is decentralized while the federal government has very little practical power.

Rojava is not M-L.

Forgot YPG flag

Any bitching about the atrocities committed under the USSR and Red China will give the ideology some life, despite it being mostly dead. Every "muh Holodomor muh trillions" fuels its power.

Obviously you can't.


Everything I've argued hasn't been refuted. It's been dismissed as irrelevant. One movement, one party, one armed forces; all of which are dominated by the PYD & YPG/YPJ, and the cult of Ocalan, yet this somehow isn't a vanguard, even though you agree the PYD set it all up to begin with and continues to organize it.
Who ever mentioned purges? Daesh might be required to brutalize the areas they conquer but I never suggested the YPG/YPJ did such things. And if you think Arab tribesmen integrated into Rojava would have accepted co-leadership with women voluntarily you are shockingly naive.
No, all of their material success was the result of their vanguard seizing the moment back in 2013, and fighting hard in Syria since.
That's simply incorrect. The conscription law was legislated by the Democratic Autonomous Administrations Founder Assembly.
diclehaber.com/en/news/content/view/410688?from=1923065108
If you think the parliament doesn't create legislation then you'd have to wonder why they have a Legislative Assembly within it.
You're ignorant and arrogant about it; if that was your point then you succeeded. I won't waste any more time on you.


The argument was never that Rojava was 100% ML only that it has very strong ML characteristics, which makes perfect sense if you remember the history of Ocalan and in turn the PKK/PYD.

Uhh China.

Still very much Marxist-Leninist. Still uses the same shitty "Duur we're just on the PAAATH to Socialism, trust us guyz" argument that M-L vanguardists use to implement bureaucratic state capitalism.