Steam's Greenlight is DEAD

What?

I thought valve was all about paying people for their hard work, even if their content is absolute shit. Ahem modders

ah yes the costume designers for waifu characters sure need to be rewarded

And they are replacing it with something even more cancerous, because they earn more money from doing so.
There's already been at least two threads about it, and it was filled with people being so very much not surprised.

Then it was agreed upon that Steam is greedy as fuck and then the thread ended, and that we will all watch in bemusement as Steam fucks over their userbase for money… again.

I don't see how taking money from indiefucks is a bad thing.

why do you fags cry about this like putting games on steam is a human right? if anything valve isn't strict enough about what goes on their store

This might have a turn for the better

If AAA industry wasn't full of SJWs I might almost agree

I mean indies are usually faggot pinko scum but still oh great now even indies will need a publisher to get their games distributed (by providing the fee). More opportunities for the publisher cancer getting their way into production. I hope your ready for EAindie and Ubindie companies that are coming.

5000 isn't that much, but it serves to filter RPG Maker crap.

From what I understood more than a fee is a loan, meaning that you can submit stuff (probably by paying a base price) and then the money you get from sales goes to Valve until you filled the quota
This shows how greedy the machine has become

THE ABSOLUTELY MADMAN

Any old hipster indiefuck can get 5000 bucks via Kickstarter easily.

Maybe now people will start making Flash games again.

Give it time
google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:EA&fstype=ii

Picture: EA's Debt and Assets

those games moved to mobile

crowdfunding 5000 is super easy if you have a playable demo and your game is actually good

Or just put your game on your own website and charge 5 dollars for a download.

If you dont sell 1000 copies then it probably wasnt suitable for steam anyway.

...

This is the most racist shit I've ever read in any Mongolian pictures forum you fucking nigger.

As someone looking to actually get something onto Steam later, I'm glad they're doing this. I doubt it'll actually be as high as $5,000 though. Even something like $500 would stop a lot of the shit clogging up the store.

Good remove that garbage.

You underestimate Valve

That's a good dunkleman, user!

Are they going to remove 3/4 of the entire catalog while they're at it? If not it's not solving shit.

They`ll probably keep whats already there, add nothing in the future
besides after you pay for A Pass to Publish

Thats not exactly the look of an unhealthy buisness

Its QC without having to go thru every game one by one

It's actially Elyse from Funhaus. They look very similar.

Yep, all of these. Greenlight was a mistake, there should always be a financial barrier to entry which will drastically reduce the amount of shitty non-games being put up for sale. When you have no real barrier to entry, and the consumer can't separate the wheat from the chaff, everyone loses.

5000 is a little too much, i'd say something like 1000 or 1500 would filter the cancer and allow good devs to afford it.

thiccbot puzzle shooter was made on greenlight, and it was quite a good game. then again, probably a hundred shitty jrpgs made on rpgmaker by idiots were also made on greenlight

$5,000 was the high. Honestly, imo if you can't shill out that much then what does that say about the quality of your game? It's not a reoccurring fee. Once you pay it and your game gets on the store it's basically on there with free advertising. I mean you probably will pay an order of magnitude higher on that on models, textures and animations alone for a budget title.

If the barrier of entry is always low as fuck we're going to be stuck with the flood of retards who spend their free time making a game without an actual realistic plan. There is 0 risk, other than wasted time and effort which people barely value at all today for some reason, for a dev to actually think if his plan is realistic. At least a $5,000 would force people to either be
A) Extremely dedicated
B) Have a team of people

Otherwise we're going to be stuck with playable but very unpolished, shallow and overly-optimistic games. This is how markets works.

Also pic was an example of devs who have no clue what they're doing getting a free ride and doing an absolutely abysmal job because of it. There's probably 1,000s.

when will a AAA publisher just shit out an "indie" subsidiary company like how Universal has Polydor Records?

That will just make their kickstarter goals $5000 more expensive. Also what's stopping some cuck for paying $5000 to get his wife's son's shitty minecraft clone released on Steam?

Late but about damn time. Every time I go and look in the store it somehow gets worse, it's at the point now where the whole frontpage for me is weebshit but not even good stuff it's shit where the art is obviously western but tries so hard to look nip

What's the point? They are so absurdly huge now compared to the rest of the market the only way they can make a meaningful profit is if they turn out millions of dollars.

Assuming they even finish the game and don't just grab the money and run

It still blocks like the other 80% of people who throw shit up on steam

No, no. You don't understand money .

Think of it this way: Can you make a demo? Great. Can you get that demo out to, say, a thousand people? Can you get them each to pay five dollars?

Done.

This isn't hard. 5000 sounds like a lot, I know, it really fucking does. And to Bob working on the street, it probably is… But Bob doesn't seriously want to release a videogame, does he? He hasn't programmed something that he's passionate about, he hasn't built characters from thin fucking air, he doesn't have a PRODUCT. He has a job, probably. Maybe in construction, I don't know.

Point is, if you're serious about creating something, doing what I just mentioned, which is essentially a really shitty kickstarter campaign, is PISS FUCKING EASY. It's not like anyone is saying, pay us 5000 dollars, now start the process. That's thinking the wrong way around.

If you have a game good enough to get on Steam, getting that much money, either through donations, through your team, or through another party will be very, very easy and I think it's probably a pretty decent target for indies to aim at. It's a good number.

Now, ten thousand? Fifteen thousand? Slightly more iffy. But 5k?

Fuck it. I earn that in less than half a year. Granted, most of it goes to my car and my rent. But it's a number that's super fucking doable.

Whoop de doo. Now Furry Frank can't have his awkwardly worksafe fetish game on the shop sell for 4.99. Who cares?

Steam is a massive piece of shit now with or without Greenlight.

Early Access is still a thing.
Paid modding is coming back.
User information requests and requirements become more and more intrusive by the day.
The "sales" have literal price manipulation to allow for larger percentages.
Returns are often nullified entirely by additional DLC products included in the "bundles", which are in many cases the only choice available.
The list just goes on and on, nevermind the fact that valve hasn't produces anything of value in years.

There are a lot of reasons why no one is talking about it.

I know exactly what you mean user. I think fanime is a good term for it.

Okay that looks pretty shit
This belongs on newgrounds
Now hold on a sec-
Now I know you're trolling me.

How is that not fanime?

They do try to make the games match your preferences, so maybe you are just a weeb faggot.

Also, call me a fur faggot, but Dust is quite alright for a one person dev team.

I don't know anything about the games. I was talking about the art style

Not the same user but no, Dust and Valdis don't really have an anime style, it might at best have small influences. Dust especially doesn't look animeish at all.
I would say the only one which you could call being ''fanime" would be the Clash of Heroes game and i don't personally care if a game tries to adapt an anime-like look. The only one with bad art would be Dyna Bomb.

I don't know about the USA, but 5000 dollars is about 1½-3 months net salary here, so that's definitely a massive obstacle to pass for many.

oh god those are the worst

how can Japan indie devs want to use steam when the market is saturated with faux anime trash. Rabi-Ribi has an excuse of being Taiwanese but everything else is a huge ripoff

Can't wait to see shitty survival Unity FPS games because "it's what sells", just with a slightly larger publishing budget.

This will only cut the lowest of the low, ie. shitty RPG Maker games or meme games (which soon faded into obscurity in the Steam store so they weren't much of a problem), not all the early access first person zombie survival games with crafting. Those are the kind of games you get when you make entering the business riskier, because they are a safe bet and the market tends to buy that shit. Genuine passion devs will probably not even try to get those 5000 dollary doos to publish their games because they know it won't be worth it. Fees this fucking high won't filter away the rich San Fran hipster startupie fucks who produce all the moderately high budget (for an indie) uninspired garbage shit on the store right now, but people like Pixel who just like make game because they want to will either be pretty much forced to become a publisher's little bitch (so, on top of Steam's 30% fee, you will have the publisher's 50-25% fee on top), crowdfunding and directing 100% of your budget (decent Kickstarted small titles usually make between $2500 and $7000) to feed Gaben's fat ass instead of improving your own game, or simply forgetting to reach a wider audience for your game.

This isn't going to prevent Call of Duty and other triple A from making it to the store. This isn't going to make Unity walking simulators to go away. This is going to fuck with games like Binding of Isaac or The Desolate Hope, and you think this is a good idea. You REALLY think measures designed to make Valve's pockets fatter are pro-consumer, and the only thing more cuckolded than that is actual cuckolding.

Greenlight was suboptimal, but at least it's not this P2W abomination.

And yet you fucks will support this while simultaneously shotting on paid mods using the same fucking arguments one way or the other.

big fucking loss

as if it sold a single copy and people knew anything about it before the maker started making fursit fetish games

You actually needed to explicitly point out how much you dislike two specific examples of risky low budget games, or you thought that would discredit the whole argument?

I made some quick calculations if I wanted a game out on Greenlight.

So in the average scenario I'm left with less than 1000 per month, then you have to take into account if there's other shit to save for or spend on, so let's say I'm able to put down 300-500 a month to Greenlight savings. I'd still be looking almost a year's worth of savings just to get my shit on there, not to mention the possible hardware/software licenses and other costs associated for making a game. So this is definitely an absurdly large barrier of entry for any smaller guy.

Maybe it's a good thing to keep the absolute worst cashgrab baitshit out, but not too keen on this.

I can't really think off my last favourite indie games that wouldn't get into Steam under the new rules

EDF and Umihara Kawase had a real publisher and Rabi Ribi was kickstarted

but if you enjoy newgrounds reject games then so be it

The problem with Greenlight isn't the fact that the fee is too low you morons, its the fact that the system itself is heavily flawed.
Simply put, whenever i browse Greenlight, yes i do that occasionally, i REQUIRE for the maker to actually provide a demo or else i won't pay attention even if i like the idea yet morons are willing to upvote stuff just based on a single trailer. It also doesn't help that its easy to manipulate the system with fake votes.

Simply put, if you want a real way to make Greenlight better, make it so that the dev IS REQUIRED to provide a demo and in order for you to vote for them you would have had to spend at least 15 mins(considering not every demo can be long) playing the demo before you can actually upvote. I think this would be something that would at least somewhat help and it wouldn't cause any problems to any truly good small devs.

I don't think they were required to even have in-game photos or video until recently. Maybe since 2015 onwards or so. Or at least no one at Valve checked up on it until people complained.

And thats the problem. They should be FORCED to provide a demo and if they provide something that isn't really a demo, they should get their asses banned.

it's not only greenlight game

every single game on steam had to be updated with real ingame screenshots

I wholeheartedly agree on that point.

Do I remember that this was due to No Man's Sky flop?

exactly

I want to impregnate both.

at the same time

It's not about getting your daily dose of games, retard. You will get your games one way or another, but that doesn't mean devs won't have it worse.

Finding a publisher is piss easy. Not getting buttfucked by your publisher is impossible. One third of your budget is already going to Valve (which admittedly puts it to good use, since you are basically paying to use their servers and services), but another third will go to the guys who forced you to put their silly logo in the bootup screen of your game and, in exchange, paid a measly (in publisher scales) $5000 to maybe make ten times that amount by just sitting and waiting for the fruits of your hard work to flourish. Modern digital publishers are just parasits, but it's K because you are still getting your shitty weeb games.

If that's what you got out of what I said you've been drinking the Holla Forums koolaid way too much. Apparently "passionate" devs with "faith in their game" can spend a year, two, three maybe more of their lives working on a game, but somehow can't spend $5k to get it on steam. And somehow this wont filter /r/gamedev kids with a fresh game design degree throwing their pile of unity assets they spent 20 hours tops making. The only merit to your argument is "Rich people will bypass this", but you should realize by now valve wont do any quality control and will always put it in the hands of the retarded community to do it for them.

Also this part
Which fucking part of my post did I say anything about blocking AAA games. Are you actually fucking retarded?

there are successful franchises born with selling self published games on CD-Rs in conventions. there are websites where you can upload files directly to the server and sell them like that like itch.io

turning everything into socialist paradise that collapses within a year or two isn't the answer to everything. most of steam users just want to see and spend money on quality games. if I wanted to see trash i'd go to the Play Store instead

u wot

Someone made some calculations earlier. It would take almost a year to get that amount of money, depending on your job. It is a lot of money, not even taking into account other countries may not even be playing by American standards, which could make publishing a game in some European country (with actual talent) a real odyssey.

Not only that. Just because you are passionate about your game doesn't mean you are confident about it. Extremely niche but polished products exist, and while making some spare money off them isn't hard even without getting lucky, it is when you have a constant $5000 overhead in your budget. You would be essentially paying to get people to play your game, and at that point you may as well just upload it to moddb and give it away for free.

Furthermore, you must take into account not everyone is Pixel. It's extremely common for some dev to be a lonely fuck with good skills in one or two of the three main branches of game development, but there aren't many jack-of-all-trades-master-of-all guys who can produce high quality code, music and graphics. If a game wants to have a moderate chance at success, you either get really lucky, or you try to make your game as polished as possible in all regards. If your game has programmer art, it's either inventing Minecraft, or fucking off to the pile of games forgotten for not looking shiny enough. Projects usually Kickstart to improve at least one of these areas by hiring someone more competent than them to improve their game with their specific skills. Saving a huge chunk of your budget for publishing costs is just going to make your game have a lower overall quality, which is exactly what you wanted to prevent.

You are complaining about the Steam store being full of shitty soulless cashgrab games, and that'a exactly what AAA games are. My point is this won't actually raise the quality of the games you see, and instead will just remove the shitty two or three RPG Maker games that silently make it into Steam every month and were barely a problem to start with.

Where did they confirm it would be $5000? I thought they were still considering it

There's a few decent RPGmaker games out there though, some of my favorites were made in it

Honestly I'm mostly for this because if games aren't AAA garbage they're 0-buget indie shit because nobody will form a studio with the way things are unless they have connections indie clique shit as long as they can just try to solo-dev and throw whatever they came up with online. It's not even a case of passions. Games aren't like any other medium. Unless you want every game to be a minecraft clone, unity shit, or pixel art, there needs to be an incentive to stand up and actually form a group of people who will actually take this shit seriously.

I know there's people out there who make really weird games that are actually really good but fail because it's too niche Signal Ops, but the majority of the time it's people half assing shit and throwing it out there. Also that game was made by a fulltime team doing it as a job, not hobbyist. They still took the risk.

I mostly have 3d in mind. Especially with Unity, $5,000 hurts bad 3d more than it hurts good pixel. To make a good 3d game you actually need a team or need to be extremely minimalistic, which isn't suitable for all games. No teams are being formed because everyone thinks they can do it all by themselves, then release some overly optimistic "could have been good but is missing a lot" like pic related

The problem is the only alternative to AAA, which will never change without a nuke, is small studios. With the way steam is setup now, and all the convenient tools, aspiring gamedevs are more inclined to just take it up as a hobby or solo-dev. What the industry needs is people to form teams and actually put their shit on the line.

We're just discussing the logistics of it

There are lots of unexpected success stories out there, but that doesn't mean they are exceptional cases. I mean, there is Notch, who has made one of the most successful games in history despite the game looking like shit, being buggy as fuck and incomplete and not being published in any fucking platform other than his own; there is Yandev, who hasn't even published a game yet and all we know about it is just shit and drama but is somehow making $5000 a month; there is Phil Phish scamming who knows how much with his overrated game; there is AKABUR, who never finishes his fucking games but is also becoming rich through Patreon…

And there you have all those good and polished, but unknown games scattered through many not very important websites, which is what usually happens when you are an indie who doesn't put his game on Steam.

Surely, inflating the required budget to publish a game to better control the market is the true ancap way, right?

Problem is, while it's true teaming up is required to succeed, having a group of friends capable and willing to make a game is something very rare. More often than not, specially those greedy artist fucks, people expect to get paid for their work in advance, as they consider royalty payments a sure way to get buttfucked, one way or the other.

And you see how that panned out. There will always be berserk absolute madmen out there trying to defy the market, but only a few do manage to get lucky.

Even with 2D games, if you want them to look really good and not yet another "8 bit lel so retro xD" game, you will need either a one of a kind one man army developer, or a team. Unless you know people with the right skills and are intimate enough with them to consider working together on a project with absolutely no guarantees, you will have to pay for them, and budget in indie titles is extremely scarce to even consider paying $5000 just to increase your chances of succeeding from "near zero" to "low".

Yeah, but those teams cost money, one way or the other, doing it for the sake of art or for a living. Which is exactly why making it harder to get in won't help it.

Can you faggots try thinking critically for once

*assets, not profits

Why do so many fuckers come to Holla Forums that don't even like video games?

No shit. This will do nothing to stop hipster kickstarter bullshit, and will shut down actual small creative devs that don't appeal to the masses.

If Holla Forums was just one opinion shared by everyone then you too would hate both AAA and indie games, and you asking why people who hate all games come here would be something you should ask yourself.

...

I want to elaborate on this more. If you're too small your game lacks substance except in very niche circumstances. If you're too big the only way you can support yourself is by appealing to reddit and normalfags.

Imagine the worst thing that can happen and it will

Does that mean we'll get more DRM-Free indie games?

What kind of faggot are you?

We like mid-sized, professional studios catering to our specific niches.

The time of itch.io is now.