Are you a brocialist, Holla Forums?

Here's clueless third worldist user

Hi

...

Yea man fuck women bro we should hit the gym and rape some women and say they asked for it bro fuck niggers and poor people mwuhahahaha.

Is this what a nu-male or a feminist woman think of how normal men act like?

...

Yes.

Fuck me.
You know what I just really can't bel-
wait
How many layers of irony has society taken on now?

This isn't your average every day ideology. This is advanced ideology. I need a drink.

Typical brocialist. Bet you're going to beat up some gay people after you got waaaaasted right? I bet youre a nazi too.

Definitely not a brocialist myself.

At the same time I recognize in order to get more conservative white working class people on board with us we need to target our messages carefully. These kinds of people don't really care about feminism as much as classist issues, so the message to them needs to be tailored differently.

My own theory is that once you can get these sorts of people class conscious, educating them on other oppressive hierarchies would be much easier. But you don't want to turn them off right off the bat because they are trained to be reactionary to IdPol

Hello spoiled american. Riddle me this: How do you want to solve intersectional problems when there's homeless people on every first world country?

Can't be a revolutionary without killing some homos :^)
The greatest marxist-leninists of our time are all nazis :^)
Homosexuality is and always will be a bourgeois construct, so therefore killing gay workers is justified :^)
The only way forward is to embrace petty bourgeois drugs, because that's how the left overthrew capitalism in the 70's :^)

post butt, slut

The only revolutionary action going on in the world today is largely feminist accepting

Repeat it

>>>/reddit/

Absolutely no fucking idea about the world whatsoever.

I bet most of the mods of /r/socialism would get PTSD if they ever heard the banter on building sites and blue-collar jobs

Fuck reddit. Not sure why you are implying I should go there.

So basically it's the radical left that don't buy Patriarchy theory.

First wave feminism isnt the same as third wave feminism. What you are seeing is not the ideology of feminism, its the material conditions changing the roles in societies and enabling the emancipation of women and men by eliminating the need for strict gender-based division of labour in order to have offspring thats alive and have a livable house.

The only revolutionary action going on in the world today is largely feminist accepting

Repeat it

They are trained to be idpol as fuck.

No it isn't, they just have that whole YPJ thing so they can gain brownie points with the womz :^)

(honestly wouldn't be surprised if the succdem said this unironically)

That is a funny way to spell "reformist."

Both feminism and hatred of women can be exploited for profit.

In the Bourgeois west they're selling "feminist" t-shirts, coffee mugs, television shows, etc.
Liberals are using feminism as a way to distract the left from moving on to class struggle.
Feminism is taken for granted by men who believe it is always here to stay and that women don't need to worry even though the next US president is a confessed rapist.

In the third world, corporations take advantage of the woman hateric culture of third world countries (like Indonesia) to literally pay women less for the same work. They are even able to prevent unionization because the women's work isn't even classified as work, it's classified as a "social activity".

Fuck no

Litterally:
This mentality is why I hate anyone who unironically identifies themselves as feminists in the first world.

I certainly agree but the way at which the promotion of feminist ideas is propagated is utterly flawed.

The idea of SJWs and Tumblrinas shouting down "cis white men" as all scum is going to turn people off. You have to admit that movement is fucking itself over by being ridiculous.

I really think we need to distance ourselves from SJWs since they don't even practice intersectionality themselves.

Are they allies with rape culture or are they a sectarian off-shoot?

Not even a communist and I feel sorry for you guys.
Feminist/Social Justice cancer seems to have latched onto to the radical left and not letting go.

anti-intersectional has to be one of our creeds tbh

God you're stupid.

Apparently "misogynist" filters to "woman hater"

clever.

Kekekeke

Repeat it

Equality is a pipe dream

Hierarchy is reality

There is a race of stronger smarter men and weaker stupid men. The weak and stupid should be servants to the strong and smart.

Yo wtf, intersectionality is at the core of what we fight for….

lmao. Good measure.

Holla Forums posters?

Litterally:

This mentality is why I hate anyone who unironically identifies themselves as feminists in the first world.

funniest meme I've ever heard, talk to me when your revolutionary movement actually consists of workers and unionists, and not some latte sipping spoiled brats.

fuck off no it isn't.

Not really

thecharnelhouse.org/2014/02/07/a-marxist-feminist-critique-of-intersectionality-theory/

Repeat it

never.

We fight for the abolishment of capitalism, friendo.

Fighting cultural ailments is not within the scope of socialism or communism, but many many many cultural ailments are grounded in material conditions, so that by fixing the material conditions of the people, you take away the flame that keeps these ailments alight, allowing wounds to finally heal.

Repeat it

I'd give an honest reply but then I'd be oppressing you with the patriarchy by voicing my opinion.

She's talking about Rojava you dense motherfucker.

I agree that class struggle is the root of all oppression, and I agree that treating other oppressions before treating class struggles is putting a band-aid on a hemorrhage. But That doesn't mean we should ignore those things.

We need to take on all forms of oppression or the revolution would be all for naught. We cannot have a peaceful society if any one group is marginalized over another, regardless of what that group is.

Watch that mansplaining, ally.

get the fuck off my board you non-cis polygendered intersectional feminist
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

yeah, i mean i am a brocialist since capitalism isn't a different problem than patriarchy/racism.

it's not like that after abolishing private property, there will be gender equality in the future (le "maybe after revolution" meme); but that gender, race etc are indeed economic entities and are intimately related to(aka are exactly the same than) class.

There is an overrepresentation of men and white people in the upper class, so abolishing class will mean to abolish patriarchy and other superstructural manifestation of capitalism.

are liberals that stupid? is it ironic?

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Yes it does. Fixing perceived superstructural problems is impossible before addressing the material causes that underlie them. Besides, what work is there left to do within capitalism beyond destroying capitalism? Every legal avenue has already been pursued, and every successful reform that has been enacted has only left the real problem perfectly intact.

Identity is not a front for revolution. It is a dead end.

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Wow, muh privilege-blind cishet white male detected
Stop mansplaining, sinner

this is some meme tier bait

what's his name

I think you need to read, friend.

You cannot change culture and behaviour via a revolution. You can only change the material conditions. AFTER YOU DID THAT, it will be possible to fix these problems, because the source that feeds them is gone. You can have a socialist nation full of americans who hate blacks or whites, the revolution will make sure that the behaviour forced upon both groups by the material conditions is gone, so they can treat each other as equals. After a decade or two, you have an entirely new generation in your country that isn't racist.

You cannot create a peaceful society by violent slaughter of the slavers, you build a peaceful society by remove the source of violence and slowly letting people adapt their behaviour and social norms to this new stable state. You cannot do anything outside of making laws to ensure people are not publicly discriminated against, and providing programmers to promote development and intergration of formerly marginalised groups. You can't force a racist or sexist to change their mind, you can only expose them to people that disprove their assumptions, and even then there will always be those who will never be fully "with the times" due to past experiences that formed them as a person. For example, my grandparents will never have respect for Germans or Japanese, they will always call them names in private, because they lived in the war in europe, and their brothers and sisters were put in the Japanese concentration camps and raped. I, however, do not hold anything against the new japanese and germans, and my grandparents will never be publicly disrespectful against them, and have many good friends in germany. However, healing takes time, and if you expect the "revolution" to be the end in all for all the problems in the world you are in for a rude awakening.

Prove it.

...

As long as they don't interfere with my sexuality it's all good.

and:

If you don't educate and prepare the population for what comes after the revolution, you might as well expect petty tribal recriminations and warfare. There goes your socialist revolution. Sound familiar?

Material conditions are the most important, yes, and are at the root of all oppression, but some of you sound like you want absolutely no talk or discussion of racism or sexism whatsoever.

intersectionalism =/= addressing issues regarding oppression
libcom.org/library/i-am-woman-human-marxist-feminist-critique-intersectionality-theory-eve-mitchell

Yes and no.

"Intersectional" feminists see all other movements as a part of their general hegemony and seek to corral them into their fight against the "patriarchy" (these feminists aren't genuinely intersectional, they see all other struggles as merely footnotes to the struggle against patriarchy). When socialists see class struggle as the main conflict and antagonism of history, this directly conflicts with their theory that the main conflict and antagonism is patriarchal society. They call these people "brocialists" in an attempt to shame them back into line. In this sense, I am a "brocialist".

However, there genuinely are people who act like anything that isn't strict economics is idpol and therefore not worthy of discussion or action. These people are bad and I wouldn't consider myself a "brocialist" in that sense.

I guess I took user's mention of intersectionalism out of context to mean something broader than just feminist shit

my bad

I can't speak for anarchism, but Marxists take a more nuanced approach to social inequality than the intersectionality meme.

What about racism and sexism needs to be discussed?

Holla Forums is slowly becoming like those cringy right wing 'feminists rekd' channels on YouTube.

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kek is that an Evola Spurdo?

...

Still waiting for this fag to be banned in the name of gender equality.

Explain.

Indeed it it, we need more.

Is checking post numbers illegal here?

It's a kneejerk reaction to idiots. Not suprising, with the amount of ex/pol/yps and robots here.

Goddamn I hate intersectionalists so much…
For them, there is no acknowledgment of how class and exploitation can be a source of power—only that it is just another one of those oppression points. But class is not just another burden; it's at the very heart of Marxist and real leftist ideas.

If the board is moving towards an adversarial relationship with identitarianism it is entirely because identitarians have repeatedly made the same fundamentally flawed arguments and offered no sufficient rebuttals. Patriarchy beyond agrarian societies is a naked fiction. Liberal anti-racism reinforces the tribalism that underlies racism. They frame real problems through fictional lenses which does nothing except obscure the nature of those problems. If racism is to be ended, it can only be done by annihilating the concept of race, and that simply cannot be done in a capitalist world.

Hang in there. It will not be long before that becomes a reality.

yeah like haha women not being able to legally contract and inherit on their own is not even patriarchical also democratic participation

You mean they are barred from having private property? What a travesty!

This is why no one takes feminism seriously.

I only speak for me, but class has more impact than any other kind of hierarchy, and it bolsters all other forms as ways for the system to divert conflict. Furthermore it creates new conflicts and hierarchies to this end. See all the oppression olympics shit where wholly made-up identities fight over nonsense. If you get rid of racism on its own or sexism on its own or any -ism on its own or all -isms together, the ruling class will just find new ways to divide people. Class comes first. Once it's dealt with then we deal with any leftover ideology, but until then it's pretty wasteful to expend lots of effort on identity-specific liberation.

This is literally the same basic argument as "we want diverse CEOs" except the details are change from CEOs to property owners.

At a time when literally the other population isn't?

yeah it is, deal with anti-women fags

*other half

This. Women currently lack the appropriate political consciousness necessary for socialism due to historical conditions which has previously prevented them from participating in wage labor. Feminism must precede any socialist revolution unless you want to fight half of the population along with the bourgeoisie.

This is what happens when an economic issue gets framed as an identity conflict. The feminist here is under the mistaken impression that women not having private property is the problem when in fact the real problem is that certain other people do possess private property. Also notice the implication that men in these agrarian societies are all able to possess private property because ot is legal for them to do so. Never mind that only the eldest son in a true patriarchal band is entitled to his father's inheritance and thus possesses the means to own private property.

What the fuck? Women have been waged laborers since the Industrial Era began.

And how telling is this? Our revolution is not their revolution.

Teaching inherent victimhood and indoctrinating them into believing they live in a system which actively discriminates against ONLY them (a la "Patriarchy Theory" and "rape culture" which are complete bullshit) and other false equivalences such as power+privilege=racism,sexism and sexual assault will only fuck them up.

Why cant they just say "They think economic equality will ease enough of the other areas of inequality such as (examples here) and we don't agree with that."

Why all the hate antagonism and name calling for what amounts to a essentially a small tactical disagreement?

Guys I really don't understand why we can't just simply say to feminists/whatever other identitarian:

"We hear you, we understand you are oppressed, and we want to allieviate that oppression by dissolving class"

I've been saying all along that class is the root of the majority of oppression in our society. But I don't think we should completely throw those struggles out the window either. Address them using Marxist philosophy, get these people on board. Don't alienate them, they are potential allies. That is the only thing I've been trying to argue throughout this thread.

Show these people their follies. Show them class is the root and once capitalism is overthrown addressing their problems will be a cakewalk. Am I wrong, honestly?

because I got the definition from the sjw wiki
I'm not kidding

We're not divisive, we just invented this broad brushstroke label for people who disagree with our minefield beliefs about muh privilege

You don't get it - that's exactly the objection they have to "brocialists."

Why don't you anons take a look at all this crazy shit you anons come up with regarding gender/class/race/etc and finally realize that this stuff doesn't work in real society?

Normal people (we are the majority, like it or not) don't really care about all this nonsense, we just want to live and let live, and be left alone.

no i think everyone agrees with you

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because there's no such thing

get out pls

"First off, let’s get rid of this average Joe, who does not exist. He is a statistical fiction. There are individuals, and that is all. When I hear people talking about the guy in the street, studies of public opinion, mass phenomena, and so on, I think of all the patients that I’ve seen on the couch in forty years of listening. None of them in any measure resembled the others, none of them had the same phobias and anxieties, the same way of talking, the same fear of not understanding. Who is the average Joe: me, you, my concierge, the president of the Republic?"

I was under the impression brocialists were those that completely denied oppression outside of class althogether. Maybe I misinterpretted. My appologies. But the distinction being I don't deny that oppression, I simply disagree with hardline identitarians on the cause of it.

lol I highly doubt that

The only revolutionary action going on in the world today is largely feminist accepting

Repeat it

If saying that economic issues require economic solutions instead of liberal reforms alienates anyone, then the fault does not lie with us.

So are most counterrevolutionary movements.

Yeah it actually does because you're letting your feelings get in the way of it.

You don't know to organize shit lol.

The only revolutionary action going on in the world today is largely feminist accepting

Repeat it. Then apologize to Apo for comparing him to Clinton.

PROJECTING

Reminder to use the filter.

I'm honestly not.

You're letting your feelings about feminism get in the way of actually saying it doesn't matter in order to get greater support.

I think all humans should be equal but these feminist promoting priviliges for women absolutely disgust me. They are really just female chauvinists.

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wtf

Better brolshie than bourgie.

Does the tripfem shit in the thread qualify as spam, or is it just meme-forcing?

you remind me of this trip pn /lit/ that hated trans people are you them

Gross

This thread is basically asking for universal agreement circle jerk spam I'm doing a favor by destroying this thread.

We need more of the brotherhood between workers on this board. We need to drive out the sectarian element that feminists have become to this board. We should not subcome to their intersectionalist lies of feminism with class struggle characteristics. There can only be class struggle, and their critical analysis does not help us.

lol

I really have nothing against trans people other than they make our movement look like a bunch of pussies. The same problem applies to these feminist too. Being revolutionare means you have to be ready to wage war and kill people.

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YES. THIS.
Only we in the west and among the labor aristocracy hold the means to rise above reactionary thought and act in revolutionary manner. Only our secularism is compatible with class struggle. Masses need us guide them.

what the fuck is wrong with feminists

"Only rich liberals during the bush administration can bring us to revolution"

-t. socdem

Nice try Asser.

These people think higher minimum wages are socialism

There wont be any proletariat in the western developed countries in the next 3 decades! Proletariat and low-wage workers will be replaced by more specialized labor, and majority of working people will be amongst labor aristocracy.

...

I can't wait until you are all put into gulags for your crimes against non-males and poc.

Don't do it user, stick to your principles.

Yo manarchists, I'm going to let you finish, but cishet white men are the main force stopping socialism from succeeding, so please kill yourselves and your cishet white male friends so we can actually have a socialist utopia already.

thanks friend.

sure does smell like jtrig up in here.

The global revolution should have happened in 1919. If it had, then we wouldn't have had to wait for women to achieve muh equal participation in the workforce. More workers just means more people to exploit - women in work doesn't imply that a society is progressive.

Now we have to wait for women to catch up. Feminism is a bourgeois ideology because it postpones the revolution.

...

I don't even care to identify as a socialist any more. I don't have a label for my ideology, but I don't want to be associated with the bullshit which has infested the left. Those fuckers can keep "socialism" to themselves.

So actual socialists?

Marx didn't write "the history of all hitherto existing societies is the history of race struggle".

reddit is bullying us again

reddit.com/r/FULLCOMMUNISM/comments/5jwnh2/brocialists_get_out/

have there been any successful female socialist leaders?

No, that's what identitarians say about "brocialists" to make people like you think identitarians are better than brocialists, that you are not what they would call a brocialist, and that you are alone in thinking this:
The hope of the identitarians is that you will slide over to their view out of loneliness or the fear that lack of popularity means your view is wrong. Identitarians lie about all people who don't agree with them all of the time. They do their damnedest to make people think they (identitarians) are the same thing as the people they purport to champion. Black Lives Matter is not equivalent to black people. Feminism is not equivalent to women. These groups would like you to believe so, but they are distinct groups with their own interests.

Oh wow Holla Forums just got BTFO.

Seriously though that sub is awful. No one seems to know enough theory to make any funny memes that aren't just "lol [communist leader] did literally nothing wrong".

I admire Louise Michel, Rosa Luxemburg and Alexandra Kollontai but yeah, I see your point

im brocialist and idgaf

But you're not doing it within the capitalist framework that they're so apologetic to, you filthy fucking sexist

what does that have to do with anything Leon

If you think Rojava is doing anything remotely similar to what the class collaborationist "feminists" off r/socialism want to do before revolution then you are fucking retarded

I don't particularly enjoy being talked down to by 16 year old white boys who get off on being "leftist" while still living at home.

You're from the first world…Shut the fuck up.

Fuck why did I read the comments

Every single person on that fucking sub needs their throat slit

would you prefer it if they were hispanic?

Thank you for providing a perfect example of the type of intellectually defunct garbage they routinely spew at anyone who dares to bring in actually theory to any given discussion.

Top theory

I don't think the working class can be free unless women are self sovereign

if a woman is the property of her father/brother(s)/husband she can't become class conscious

that said the wage gap thing is textbook porkyism

The joke is that all these postmodern feminists would hate Rojava feminism if they would know the first thing about it. It is pretty essentialist.

no that would be evola

top kek this post is awful

it's like you're malfunctioning

I get that it's bullshit but why is it porkyist?

I don't think anyone here disputes that.

Remember when the radical position was to abolish gender. Jesus.

I guess so. I personally don't care what gender you are and don't feel it is as pressing an issue as the capitalists holding grossly disproportionate wealth and production ownership and piling their own massive, multilevel bureaucracy on top of a straining economy trying to support them and their perpetual cycle of power hording and bastardization of "democracy".

When we have a true direct democracy with stabilized and properly prioritized resource usage, we can then look at that when we look at our legal and societal management as a whole as gender inequality is tied into a much bigger issue with people looking for ways to categorize each other based on things they have no control over. Trying to fix one social issue within a larger issue while the infrastructure that allows you to have a society in the first place is warped into corporate feudalism is increasingly short sighted. I can understand you documenting the cases for later but the focus is establishing a worker first mentality.

The best thing you can do, as a feminist pre-revolution, is make sure women are seen throughout the working class as putting in equal effort to bring it about. Get those female heros known and make sure it's not just a few cherry picked cases! You should damn well be capable of it with how many feminists seem to like protesting things. Find some women in the blue collar fields and tell their story of how hard they work. Right now, the face of your movement is latte sipping pampered girls who wear a fuck ton of make-up and complain about video games and internet trolls which makes it hard to take the more level headed feminists seriously.

yeah, but they're not playing by the clubhouse rules online so we think up funny names for them and promote further divisions within a movement we claim to want to expand haha i'm so radical

Wage slavery is something wage slaves care about

Free peoples don't work for wages

that shit ended when 60s individualism mixed with 70s identity politics and 80s consumerism

what part of the brain determines gender, anons

the entire brain is different. any neurosurgeon or neurologist can tell the difference between a man and a woman's brain. gender is social, sex is biologically encoded and inescapable

the same part that determines your DnD alignment

then how do these fucks "feel nonbinary" instead of just realize that gender is a projection of what "society" (hint: nobody) expects of them

gender is a social construct and it is also mental (super-ego)

if a sufficiently stubborn individual believes they do not identify as masculine or feminine and don't associate their gender with genitals then they are non-binary

there are endless possible genders

but only two easily identifiable sexes (which biologically exist and are permanent)

because they correctly feel that they don't conform to the ideal gender binary (nobody does) and interpret this sensation as proof that they belong to a hitherto unacknowledged category of gender, rather than coming to the more radical conclusion that gender is nonexistent

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Is that from Rational Wiki?

The blue arrow would be far, far bigger than the red one. Materialism and all.

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woosh

I do.

I believe it's safe to say that gender pretty much comes from the difference between the brains of man and woman and are therefore just as inescapable as sex. What happens in the case of faggots and dykes it's that their brains are the brains of the opposite sex, gender it's still binary and only mentally ill people will tell otherwise.

What are feminists going to bitch about after the al-Saud Dynasty dies out?

That does not follow. Gender is not a physical reality, nor is it consistent between societies.

FUCK OFF CHAD RRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

I think everyone here wants to abolish gender roles, right?

Since when did they ever talk about Saudi Arabia anyway? They all are just interested in rich western women.

you'd rather keep throwing these shitty red herrings around than take a little bit of responsibility for your own prejudices

youtube.com/watch?v=0VsVJw51Y8c

I don't dislike feminists because of their theory, I dislike them because they can't go three posts worth of discussion, even on an anonymous imageboard, without slipping into personal attacks and accusations of hating (identity).

Tankies aren't this bad.

What happened to "patriarchy?"

chad socialism is the real 5th position

Tankies are socdems with hardons for Stalin's purges. Just because they pull the "peaceful Nazi" card for themselves doesn't mean that they aren't reactionary.

marxists.org/archive/bordiga/works/1951/doctrine.htm

Being a bro means you're chill.

I want to be everybody's bro.

I prefer the term, manarchist.

"This bad" in the sense of being fucking annoying, not in the sense of coming to terrible conclusions.

Speak for yourself, I am masculinity

I mean according to the definition in your pic related, kinda. I just don't understand how you can say on the one hand "oppression is more than mean words, it's an institutional problem" and then just focus on mean words and call anyone who is interested in institutional change through revolution a brocialist. If you believe sexism can be solved through reforms and political correctness then it does not make sense to say you believe sexism is institutional. Honestly it's like these people never sat down and thought their position through

Tell me a single society where the women are the bloodthirsty warriors whom enjoy the thrill of hunting and warfare while the men are all sensible sissy flowers that enjoy gossiping with others by the fireplace. Yes, there is a social component to gender but these components are "founded" by the likes and dislikes of the sexes. Testosterone greatly increases aggressive impulses while progesterone makes people more "emotive" and so on. You faggots talk like if the gender norms just suddenly come from out of nowhere and become the standards for how men and women should behave "just because" but that's stupid, there's a biological root in gender, it isn't simple a social construct imposed by society "just because".

There are and were many societies in which women participated in warfare, from Africa to Asia. You have no idea what you're talking about.

...

...

This

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this is gud

So are you saying he isnt socialist or hes really really socialist?

Or something else?

From what I remember when I first heard about him, he isn't a socialist, just a liberal.
And it's the fact that RB is labeled a revolutionary socialist, as if to put him on the level of mao, castro, sankara, makhno, or any other revolutionary leader that makes me raise an eyebrow. I'll look more into it, but it's just baffling to call him a socialist, let alone a revolutionary socialist, when he isn't calling for the transfer of power to the workers or the abolishment of private property

no it's not you fool, gender is entirely cultural, people will express whatever traits of "feminity" and "masculinity" that are relevant to the culture, if they are binary. Never mind the massive changes in masculinity that followed during the industrial revolution as people shifted from subsistent farming, gender is obviously physical :^)

chad socialism is inherently bourgeoisie, a few select men cannot be allowed to hold absolute control over the means of reproduction, chad must die.

well done comrade

lol

He does call for revolution all the time but its the usual non specific detail free revolution that could mean anything.

We're owning the terms now, aren't we?

...

Where is this from?

Well said

You can just google a sentence, user.

ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/o/orwell/george/o79r/chapter11.html

Here's the short version

Dunno what he had against fruit juice.

And while we're on the subject: archive.is/Cvnv2

this

Chad is literally Porky

BETA UPRISING REEEEEEEEE

Fix'd that for ya.

There is literally nothing wrong with nudism.

Which doesn't deviate very much from culture to culture.
I'm still waiting for an example of society where you have strong amazons that need no man and sissy boys as the gender standards.

Das rite.

Yes.

wrong

Broz b4 hos

Holy shit, is this nigger serious? They change constantly. You only have to go back to eighteenth century Europe to see dudes in heels and wearing silk, feathers, wigs, and makeup. The Scots still wear skirts. Hell, look at how attitudes toward gender and cooking have changed in just the last century. Men own the kitchen now to such a degree that women are thought to make poor chefs. Boomers can remember when only women had long hair. I can personally remember the eighties when dudes were using mousse and curlers.

Eh we still do that here in europe.

Faggets!

Damnit, Europe, do the world a favor, and let the eighties die already. They were bad enough the first time around; we don't need to leave the door open to allow it to come back again.