Why does this board collectively shit themselves when you point out that feminism has has a role in socialism since...

Has largely been co-opted*

Because it's untrue, and you're a faggot pushing idpol. Socialism already contains gender equality. We don't need feminism.

That video ismqking fun of the alt-right

Its similar with the brocialist lett

This is plain SJW bullshit. We know how that turns out, so kill yourself.

"Brocialism" is a pejorative used by liberal identitarians against actual socialists.

It's telling that the picture you used to provide an "example" was one blasting liberals for using the Stanford rape case to push through mandatory minimums for sexual assault in a country which already leads the world in prison population.

It is not just the first impression. After talking with a socialist feminist it becomes clear that their theory really is no different than their liberal counterparts. There is still an imaginary "patriarchy" which needs to be dismantled. Even though men and women experience capitalism differently, there is no need for a "masculinism" or whatever, because women totally have it worse. Look at Saudi Arabia! And of course, there is the idealistic notion that we cannot address the economic system until we fix social problems, which–even when they are actual problems–get framed in immaterial terms. It's not intersectionality, but it suffers from a lot of the same failings.

this image is literally from r/socialism

piss off

How do you figure that? Do you realize not all social customs are directly tiedto economic systems?

It's from Marxist Memes.

Put on your real flag, anfem.

All the ones that matter are. I don't care about your fee fees.

...

For not caring, you guys sure get salty when something that doesn't effect you personally is brought up.

oh facebook, even worse then

You have a million websites where you can discuss that shit as much as you like. This is the only one where class discussion isn't drowned out by endless idpol bullshit and I'd like it to stay that way. I don't want cancer like the "progressive stack" or reddit-tier censorship to kill Holla Forums like it killed Occupy and every other movement it has infected.

Also all of these:

That doesn't even make sense.

They say read theory but it clearly states in the core theory of socialism and marxism (especially in kapital) is that all problems are caused by capital to begin with including social so why the fuck are you not attacking the root of the problem? Because you're fucking stupid liberals pretending to be socialists and marxists and deserve the killing fields.

What affects me is your poor use of the English language and your insistence that your idpol has anything to do with ending economic exploitation. After we succeed, you will be free to self-diagnose as a mentally ill tranny or whatever. Nobody will bother you, so your bitching about social norms is fucking retarded. Are you going to complain that people don't like to be greeted with "Hello, fuckface" next? Because that's a social norm too.

No because then Holla Forums would be right again.

actual marxism sounds more like neo-marxism tbh

You realize socialists actually campaigned against racial and sexual injustice in the past before as well as against capital, right?

Why does that trigger you so much? Could it just be you are racist/sexist?

...

My sides.

And this is bullshit anyways, because it's not like biogotry will go away magically under socialism and discrimination can happen under any economic system.

And? Can you tell me why I should stand behind any feminist movements currently? Should I applaud VAWA? Or should I tell you to go fuck yourself because the only thing feminists are interested in is their turn at the whip and not the elimination of it. Kill yourself.

This white boy persecution complex is hilarious.

The point of socialism is to make bigotry irrelevant. It will not matter what you think of blacks or women. You will not be able to exploit them.

Kill yourself, you stupid faggot nigger.

B8 LEVELS ARE REACHING MAXIMUM

brocialists don't like feminism because the boundary separating class conflicts, and social conflicts aren't well defined. Liberals believe you can have a society free of class antagonisms while still having class, the fundamental problem is that new social antagonisms will just take place of the old.

Not the same user, but listen. I'm completely supportive of rights for all humans, including every conceivable gender and sexual minority you can think of (plus at least a dozen you can't). I am more or less as socially liberal as it is possible to be.
I still think feminism is cancer because I have yet to speak to a feminist who isn't chomping at the bit to trample over the rights of various groups. Feminism is not an equality movement and it is not progressive. Even the name is indicative of that.

Yes. Those are definitively imaginary. They exist only in people's minds.

I want you to read what you wrote again and see if you can find the cognative dissonance.

gb2 tumblr shitcunt

moufawad-paul.blogspot.com/2014/02/radical-or-proletarian-feminism.html?m=1

Maybe under communism, socialism is not the same and that's why all Socialist states have fought against bigotry.

So does religion, doesn't stop society from incorporating it and using it as a method of social control.

As soon as you go back to Holla Forums.

Feminism is fine OP. Feminists, however, are not.

Bullshit invented to keep feminism alive. We don't need it.

Can you please name some form of bigotry which currently affects women in a material sense?

This is a stupid meme. You're only shitposting here in an attempt to change Holla Forums because since its inception Holla Forums has always been anti-idpol.

Prescriptive grammar is counterrevolutionary.

I'm not white

nope. class conflicts cause most social conflicts. they will mostly disappear, and if they don't, we can work on them, and I'll join you.

It's clear that you're the one that doesn't belong. Get the fuck out of here, nigger faggot.

Islam, Hindu caste system. That's already well over a billion, want me to go on?

I would agree, especially with the commoditization and proliferation of liberal feminism.

Religious fundementalism, male chauvinism, for a couple of examples.

that's literally what I said, the race antagonisms in America however go deeper than simple class conflicts.

Reminder that every leftist of note has been a white male.

And we already oppose religion. Please tell me how that has anything to do with what feminism currently is. I don't see any feminist poster going to India and the midldle east and doing shit about it. They just complain about muh social norms.

We've already killed religion in our movement, so there's nothing left to do but go forward.

Doesn't exist. This is why you used a generalized phrase instead of giving an actual example.

top kek

Kill yourself.

apologize

Fighting for women rights was definitely a logical thing to do when there was a restricted right on abortion, no voting rights for women and more legislative limitations. But what more can one do in western world aside from fighting to maintain the current reforms?

And it's usually former Holla Forumsyps who push this anti-idpol shit to the extreme, to the point where discussion can't be had.

Besides class apologism, you say that like it's a bad thing, considering the reactionary sentiment that has been growing for some time in the West.

It is really pathetic that liberals keep trying to change Holla Forums's board culture and continuously fail to do so.

Do you even blame shift?

he contributed nothing to Marxist theory

Go back to r/socialism, this is a brocialism zone and your IDPOL loving kind is not welcome here.

I did not.
Answer the question, what else is there to push in legislature?

who gives a shit, he managed to do something.

"Idpol" is just bourgeois class war tho…

Yes, religion is also imaginary. "Society" is an abstraction that represents a collection of individuals. It does not possess a collective mind.

I take it you are new to materialist thought.

So you're a torture chamber that doesn't like discourse from opposition?

You're the opposition, are you?

Yes Holla Forums is a torture chamber, it would be best if you leave.

Kys.

We've got a non-liberal feminism reading list and most posters here agree with women's liberation, what we don't like are liberals in red who don't understand how class structure enables racism or sexism and is ultimately what allows systematic oppression to exist.

As expected.

That World Socialist Web Site article is by far the most reasonable article i've read about the Brock Turner case.

youtube.com/watch?v=Do5zrdTb-yI

That's a fair enough assessment.

But, in this day and age, with little left in the way of directly discriminatory laws or actually legislated castes, most discrimination is enforced through capitalism's class structure, and so most forms of oppression in our day have a distinct class character, even moreso than in the last century.

Take the recent HB2 law in North Carolina, for instance. It doesn't do anything directly discriminatory against LGBTQ people, it just makes it perfectly legal for the bourgeoisie to discriminate against LGBTQ proles on their property. It also outlaws any attempt by counties or municipalities to support unions or raise the minimum wage.

It's amazing, to me, how deftly liberals and supposedly "intersectional" feminists have managed to avoid noting the stark class character of that law.

Holy fuck, that's by far the best analysis of feminism i have ever seen. Thanks a lot. Got any more of this guy's work?

Identity politics is what ruined Occupy and is what is ruining leftist politics. You people are cancer.

Who'd have thunk it?

Feminism is pure ideology that merely claims to have a role in everything since forever, despite doing nothing but bitching about rich white women problems.

How exactly does one dismantle race and gender? Are you going to give everyone genetically engineered reverse Vitiligo and cut of their genitals? Sounds kind of like what their doing in Sweden right now.

>>>/gamerghazi/
Are these all Holla Forumsyps ITT or are comrades genuinely falling for the b8?

/thread

Both are social constructs imposed by the capitalist order. Dismantle capitalism, and you dismantle all that follows from capitalism.

Only for you

Cool, maybe you'll get raped to death too.

wew

Hmm…. where have I heard this before?

You're insults are so fucking low energy I saw this one coming from a mile away.

I know that your number one fantasy is to raped to death by the religion of peace, but I doubt its going to happen to me, I live in freedom land.

...

...

Even a dumb Holla Forumslak can tell that capitalism is a real thing while feminist "patriarchy" is imaginary. A real thing can be the basis for social structures. Imaginary things cannot.

You had me going until that. 5/10

WEW

That's a really nice cop out when you're a faggoty male 3rd wave feminist with a victim complex.

...

"Actual Marxism" my ass.

Go away Holla Forums

Every Marxist should stay fit.
He lived by example.

wow

what

a

pure

coincidence

Marxism is all about class struggles, not those bourgeois decadence like faggots and trannies identity politics.

This critique is way off. Basing social structure on imaginary things happens all the time. The issue here is that patriarchy is claimed to be a social structure when it doesn't actually exist.

MODS! BAN THESE FALSE FAGGERS(Ok)

Cause its false.

D E L E T T H I S

DAE think that social antagonisms come directly from class conflicts, but afterwards separates itself from class itself and manifests itself in social institutions of power; and directly perpetuates itself?

Nice revisionism tbh.
idpol is here to stay you closeted bigots looking at you tankies

Nice revisionism tbh.
idpol is here to stay you closeted bigots looking at you tankies

...

Attacking the poster, not the source tbf. Comrade didn't even give archive/primary source link. Wikipedia is a shit source.
stay mad Holla Forumsyp

And that role has been to divide and conquer.

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You joke but I know a kid who joined the feminist alliance and is its vice president just being he wanted pussy

GEE

I

DUNNO

Holla Forums you need to go back

literally every "male ally"

I'm a massive MRA/e-misogyny faggot who has created tons of content for it, I even helped to maintain one of the major PUA/MRA hybrid websites, and I routinely get pussy by knowing more about feminism than undergraduate Tumblrfemynist girls do. You can easily mess with them.

Just tailor your tone of voice and cadence (PUA helps for this) to be like "no, I totally want to help feminism, haha!" bouncily numale-ish, but without being a total beta faggot about it, so they think you're on the level. Then add a tinge of "haha, I have some offbeat philosophical perspectives on feminism! :)", and you can say whatever you want.

I've sat across from a literal pink hair-dyed self-avowed "trans-friendly radical feminist" and had a conversation where I described innate biological and psychological gender roles, a handful of basic MRA concepts like "patriarchy" actually benefiting women a lot, blah blah blah, and because I stayed in control of the vibe of the conversation, she agreed to all of it. We fucked all last summer. Similar experiences with a bunch of girls.

Eventually you can get any Tumblrina to poke fun at their own ideology. If you FWB them for a good while, all women will eventually admit they're just putting on an act with the hardcore feminism shit. None of them really enjoy doing it, so when you give them an opportunity to make fun of how Nazi-like the community is, they'll do it.

Women have very malleable personalities. They're sorta always looking for a guy to "anchor" what is and isn't acceptable behavior. Give them the anchor you want, and with a bit of time they'll adapt to it.

lol ok

or you just want to fuck whores, and whores like modern feminism

Did he score?

2nd pic related

sounds about right

truuuuu

...

You hit the nail on the head. Can't wait for all the salt to come out of this comment

...

What was so terrible about VAWA. I've been hearing MRAs complain about it for a decade

You could just be against feminists that exclude class from their theory. Instead you guys spaghetti at the mere mention of oppression intersectionality

Abortion rights restrictions

Abortion is murder. A woman doesn't have a right over another life because it's attached to her.

There like 100k untested rape kits in the US because police do not persecute rape.

Tumblrinas are a vulgar form of feminism, but not representative

How is it murder. The fetus is like the size of an erase until the second trimester. Is jacking of murder too

You're crazy what social structure under capitalism doesn't have a material base. That material base is why we have some many contradictory and crazy cultures customs and beliefs.

Lol look at all these people you triggered.

Much like the equally infamous ERA, it's absurdly broad and loosely written. Among numerous other issues regarding its embezzlement-prone dispensation of funds and mandates for the promulgation of patently false propaganda, it most infamously strips swathes of constitutional protections from men accused of sex crimes:
avoiceformen.com/feminism/feminist-lies-feminism/violence-against-women-act-do-the-rights-of-men-matter/

Abortion is such a microscopic issue that all demand nationwide could probably be more than paid for by the money burnt trying to make spooked taxpayers foot the bill. As for the actual rights themselves, anyone (on either side of the political spectrum) who seriously thinks Roe v. Wade will be reversed is higher than a kite.

Even ignoring the accuracy of that number, and the question of how many of those are from "victims" who refused to press charges or recanted, rape kits aside, the entire forensic industry is swamped in too many open requests and not enough funding or personnel. So get in line, cupcake:
patch.com/massachusetts/roslindale/system-overload-backlog-soars-at-drug-labs-nationwide62b2aad62c
wvva.com/story/31190587/2016/02/Wednesday/west-virginia-death-investigators-to-seek-accreditation-cut-autopsy-backlog

The only worthy feminists are currently fighting in northern Syria, or some other hellhole, for the most basic of shit that feminists in the West take for granted. PissPigGranddad is a literal white male and more of a feminist than any bourgeois woman in the United States.

Actually calling yourself a feminist has always been a choice – not a requirement – for women in anarchist or socialist movements. Most famously, the Mujeres Libres refused to be associated with feminism because they thought it was a bourgeois movement, much to the puzzlement of liberal feminists decades later, and that did not stop them from freely associating both as anarchists and women.

Demanding that socialism or anarchism be feminist is unnecessary; to insist that the only "legitimate" socialism or anarchism is feminist is bourgeois. And in the context of this board, when every other site of discussion is drowning in liberal censorship, petty tyrants, and ignoring class issues as tertiary to gender and race, it's very obvious why people here take a dim view of feminism.

You can't just change the definition of feminism to adhere to whatever reactionary goals new age liberals have, and then pretend others aren't socialists because they don't go along with your new porky approved "feminism"

>mfw the anti-idpol group is a dissident that, if not already, will soon be reconciled by the culture industry in the form of genderfluids and gendersolids, now not too obstinate about one's own concerns
It's almost like most imageboard users weren't born before the 90s…

Anyway, here's an article someone might like:
libcom.org/library/i-am-woman-human-marxist-feminist-critique-intersectionality-theory-eve-mitchell

Feminism has a place but massive third wave idpol feminism does not

no because life is made at conception, a sperm without an egg cannot fertilize into a human, it is fundamentally different. A fetus will develop into a human given time. You niggers all sound like the Southerners justifying slavery

the important thing is that we focus on explicitly revolutionary gender, racial, etc movements that have the intent of abolishing race, gender etc. the way we plan on abolishing class. They must be concerned primarily with dismantling institutional power, not prejudice as that's a losing battle.

That is the only way we can deal with these so-called "identity issues."

That's true when it comes to embryos tho.

and? Neither would you as a kid when your parents were taking care of you, that doesn't mean that they have a right to kill you.

This board is totally retarded when it comes to feminism and revolution. Catalonia simply didn't stop being sexist once it took power, and these cultural tendencies we have influence our behavior, and influence our socio-economic choices. Especially political.

At this point I'm almost certain that "radical" factions within feminism and anti-feminism as a whole are built to be a false dichotomy in a post fucking whatever gamergate era, where we can blame feminists or the former for anything and everything while distracting from the issues at hand. I agree with leftypol on this.

But that does not excuse them entirely of doing what they're telling us, they're not doing, right? I mean it's plain as day, no feminist discussion allowed.

We've gone over this a billion times Marxism feminism exists, women have been part of revolutionary praxis far more than the West, and where we live, is the west, not the Bloc. And the Bloc and what have you had their problems regarding the issue. I'm rambling.

The point being is, sexism doesn't simply stop the moment socialism takes power year one. That's utterly fucking absurd of an argument to make and one wonders how you could argue that out.

The other is just, come the fuck on guys. almost all Socialists who have actually done shit in the 21st century outside the west have embraced feminism, of some kind depending on material conditions relating to Capital and how best to stop them once Capital is destroyed, whenever that happens and for whatever reason. The only person contemporary I can think of who shares leftypol's opinion is Zizek and he hasn't done shit for communism besides make bank off Netflix for his rambling documentary about movies.

I'm going to take Öcalan over this over leftypol, there's really just no reason to violently oppose feminism in the way that you do, for more reason than you're utterly contradictory on it.

Guess what he works under more or less Öcalan worship and he said feminism was fine and encourage.

So. God damn read anything about contemporary politics

Holla Forums is completely consumed by their ideology regarding dialectics and muh material conditions.

I know that you stupid asshole, what's your point?

word

Read my fucking post

Besides which you overlook the fact materialism (as you understand it), can be applied to all regions the same exact fucking way. That's not true. Different lower and impovershed communities \have different cultures, you can't just force this shit down their throats equally, in even such an absurd scenario.

The point being if the so called "elimination of feminism under socialism," exists, it has to be to the point you're not describing it as.

I gave the anonymous anfem the benefit of the doubt but it's just a tripfag. Put your tip back on so you don't miss my filter.

Before I do I would like to let you know, that you know about jackshit outside of the western world. And they're the only ones fighting for the ideology we speak of.

As if you're an expert.

Considering that my parents came from a warzone where communism is fought, I guess that makes me somewhat more of an expert on these things. For example, it's not like once Socialism was implemented in Mao's China, woman's liberation became a concrete identifiable long term goal over traditionalism.

It's admittedly a modern trend in fighting, but it's a useful one to unite the classes of both sexes.

Also, if I can talk about this shit and you can't, no matter how many hot wojacks with long inaccurately long hair you post of me, I will still know more than you

Why are so many of them cute?

anfem PLEASE.

I thought you were smart. NO SHIT sexism still existed until Catalonia and pretty much all establishments of Socialism, and us 'brocialists' are fully aware of this!

It was never claimed that the second the workers seize the means of production, everyone will start being super nice to everyone and no problems will exist in the world OVER NIGHT. To suggest otherwise is literally Utopian and a little what anarkiddies do but that's another topic

To paraphrase Marx, the new society born out of the womb of Capitalism will bare the birthmarks of the old one. This is to say, we're still going to see remnants of the old society under Socialism for a while, however they will fade away as society develops.

Claiming that being against idpol is dumb because 'sexism still existed in Catalonia' shows a lack of understanding for basic Marxism.

You think the average women just quit being attractive because they live in the middle east

Protip: it doesn't.
You don't.

fucking kek

Marx's work applies to the rapidly industrialized world of the 19th century, and could an extent, be applied to the 20th.

This is not the case. Not to throw Marx out wholly, he is useful, but different times.

I'm not criticizing Marxism, I'm criticising the knee jerk SJW-esque reaction of this board to the mere word when revolutionaries across the world ascribe to it, or a form. They'd smack your shit up if you caught mouthing off.

If you want to attract actual revolutionaries, apply arguments. Not

IDPOLIDPOLIDPOLIDPOL

When really at the end of the day that's all your doing and there barely any radfems here

They live pretty stressful lives and may not be that well nourished or have had decent prenatal care when they were in the womb. That's what surprises me.

What makes you an expert then, hm? The internet? Because it seems to have done jack shit for you.

What if its…..US backed models…….

I agree that there are parts of Marxism that need to be rehashed to f it today's society, but not being Utopian and saying that we're going to see parts of the old society when we form a new one is definitely not one of them. Besides, we're talking about Catalonia here, which was obviously part of the 20th century, so once again bringing that up makes no sense.

Oh ok, well that's just because we're an image board, cant really fix that. It's going to be one of the two extremes, and I think we both prefer this one to the other.

It was a dumb example. My greater point here is that people say Socialism automatically assumes that women gain rights from it, or remain the same in rights, or have even less rights than before. It depends utterly on the time, context, and conditions of the future.

I would rather consider these things, and the fact actual Marxist revolutionaries ascribe to it, not the Western ones, that we need to stop this drawn out garbage.

I agree it's an image board, but these places used to be places of discussion, not hand waves. I am not the window into intersectionality, because these same women would beat the shit out of them too.

I'm saying the idea feminism is assumed under socialism is why socialism in the third is so popular among revolutionary movements. The previous attempts were not, despite promises or lack-there-of,

this article is gold

For the time being, telling women outside the west fighting for communism to just "pls stop with the identity politics" solves about jack shit. This is hope for the future. The way I see it, hope is a mistake. We're all guilty of forms of identity politics. Subtle guilt.

I take it that this is more akin to your position:

Because a significant portion of the leftypol crowd is made up of politically illiterate former right-wingers who are more interested in memes and buzzwords than actual theory. Why have a discussion about feminism when you can just scream "idpol" at everything you don't like?

Shit son that's some surprisingly decent analysis.

Patriarchal gender norms existed before capitalism, so why is it logical to assume they'd be abolished with it?

Because capitalism and other exploitative ideologies use them as leverage to impose their economic system

Righrs, rights, rights… Could you be any more stuck in the Enlightenment?

Hey, I think you picked the wrong flag. You want this one.

It is probably a factor, but I am highly skeptical that it is any more so than the promise of an end to economic exploitation is.

So why do patriarchal gender norms exist in societies that never moved beyond hunter-gatherer societies?

Such as?

Because human nature.
It's something intrinsic to the human species and cannot be changed, sorry to tell you this but all your wymyn, fagget and whatever else tied to identity simply cannot be changed.
Deal with it!

Reported for shitposting

Noone is saying that identity groups don't matter,
only that they don't on their own.

Yet it's not only connected but can only be understood from a class perspective. Looking at class from any identity-perspective is futile nonsense.

It's class first, everything else is determined by it. That's all.

We've had discussions about feminism multiple times in the past, the feminists got utterly BTFO as they always will by whenever they actually allow a discussion to take place instead of just screaming "misogyny!" and banning everyone.

I'm sure you're not referring to first-wave feminism.

dunno but feminism now is completely embarrassing and nonsensical

This.
It's why feminism is always discussed on "safe spaces" like reddit where you can easily ban any dissenting or "triggering" opinions.