Have MMORPGs ever been good?

Have MMORPGs ever been good?

Other urls found in this thread:

belan.variadic.org/jeff/jeff1.html
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Well. You should research what people were thinking about virtual online worlds in the beginning of the century, before wow.

There was a potential. It was completely wasted for the sake of business.

Have low effort template threads ever been good?

Fuck off faggot

Too lazy to do my own research. Elaborate pls.

Yes.

No.

You already posted the image of the best one.
Meridian 59 and Ragnarok Online were also ok. And Lineage I/II, LotRO and Conan had nice addition to the genre.

Bump

Yes. Guild Wars was great.

I thought runescape was fun when I played it with all my friends from school in 2006-2007

everquest bitches

UO was my favorite. I still play it from time to time on freeshards when I miss it. It's still unsurpassed in terms of player freedom.

I want cuckchan children on break to leave.

No

Whoa check em!

does the guy who drew that picture know what perspective is?

It was meant to catch your eye on the store among all the games.

You answered your own question with your picture.

UO was good until they shanked pre-casting. Asheron's Call (pvp server) was good until they added housing (ie, safe zones).

No

housing really did turn darktide to shit

I'm currently playing Elysium (vanilla WoW) and I'm having fun, does that answer your question OP?

WoW killed MMOs

Indirectly, but the real blame falls on WoW clones.

Yes

RIP

True

Yes, as soon as WoW started and monopolized the genre and bred copiers, that's when it all went to shit.

Nowadays the only good MMOs are on private servers, we have threads on this, man. It's free, no strings attached.

also

HAPPY NEW YEAR
LET IT BE LESS SHIT THEN THIS ONE!

No, WoW was always and will forever be shit.

That's the secret, OP. MMO's have never been good. The thing is when you take a shitty situation and you throw alot of people to deal with other shitty situations, you get moments in time which suddenly turn shit into gold. The best moments are when you and some randoms deal with something awesome in a funny way. My best memories are in Age of Wushu and Ragnarok online, two objectively shit mmo's but with the right people became a virtual home.

Just scrape his pixiv you lazy idiot

MMOs were good when people allowed themselves to become invested in the game. When you logged on, you started chatting with people while doing shit. You talked strategy, where to go for exp, items, gear, plans for the guild's future, etc. It was less about the game itself and more about how much the game allowed you and other people to really enjoy each others' company. When I played RO, it wasn't because I enjoyed spamming Spiral Pierce on monsters, it was because I enjoyed playing with the people I had run into and tagged along with on a whim, and the wacky shit that would happen to us. When I played the early version of Dofus, it wasn't because I enjoyed becoming an invincible god-king made of shields wielding shields casting shield spells with my Feca, it was because I enjoyed trying to mash a coherent plan together with other players 30 seconds at a time.

And I generally enjoyed the company of the fellow sperglords who were equally invested in the game and world. We had fun just logging on and talking about life as we collected bear asses. We allowed ourselves to be social. We put our feelings and possibly even security at risk but when we met the right people, the game became immensely fun.

Nowadays, all MMOs have streamlined the social aspects of MMOs to the point where you don't even need to interact with people anymore. You queue up for dungeons instead of spam LFG> or ping your friends. You bitch and moan when the randoms fuck up and you immediately queue up again, instead of laughing it off, going over what people fucked up, and absolutely killing it next time. You go on quests by yourself to earn credit for some alternate currency while competing with both allies and enemies, instead of grouping up with everyone so you all get credit and a much easier time. I've played WoW, I've seen dumbasses sit around waiting for a quest boss to spawn only to DPS race against fellow faction players because nobody wants to fucking group up.

Plus, investing yourself emotionally is so risky that nobody does it. It's just not worth the risk these days. You're probably never gonna see this fucker again, why talk to him? Also he might be one of those 4chan epic hax trollz that'll make fun of me and also steal my account. And it would be weird to have to explain to all my Facebook followers that I spent Saturday night partying with a cute archer in a forest cave looking for something rare. Plus, I bet he just doesn't give a fuck. He's not here to socialize, to explore the world and it's systems, no. He's here because it's the new hotness that all the video game journalists hyped up as the next greatest savior of video gaming.

MMOs were always a little subpar as games, but the social aspect made up for all those deficiencies and more. But with WoW popularizing the genre, with normalfags that give zero shits about you or the game becoming the majority, MMOs will never be the same again. And they may never reach their true potential.

Now I'm not so sure if the game was actually fun or the people around me made it fun.

They still are. It's just you got always were old, cynical, tired of life and unable to socialize and have fun anymore.

City of Heroes/Villains was very good up until i13 when NCSoft decided to go full jew mode and chase after wow like every other dev at the time. It was fast as fuck and the abilities had weight to them. When you fulcrum shifted, you knew shit was going down. When you got off an assassination followed by energy transfer, they knew they were fucked. When that fire/ss tank/Brute teleported you into that pipe in Siren's call, you knew it was you or him. When that turbo autist blaster showed up with his army of buff bots in the Siren's Call hospital, you knew you were fucked. Getting Shivans in Warburg could be very intense as you never knew who would show up to stop you. The Halloween events actually focused on Halloween. Trick or treating door to door in Grandville. The costume selection was amazing for its time and the power customization was fantastic. I so dearly miss it. Champions Online was pretty good, but it fell into the microtransaction trap and never recovered. The buffs and debuffs were actually strong. You could easily build your character into monsters with some work and planning. The enemies could wreck your shit too. You made sure to scout out sappers before marching your happy ass into a group of malta.

Having said all of that, I highly doubt CoH/V could ever return to its former glory in today's environment. I'm playing ff14, but it does feel so stale at times. I'd say its the effect of wow and everquest before it on the market. The main difference between wow and everquest, is that wow was so successful that it made all other devs or the suits that ran them turn into utter retards.

Age of Conan's beginner island was fantastic, but the rest of the game was rushed as hell.

To add to this.

The heroes being stronger at group work in comparison to the villains that were better solo was fantastic in retrospect. The influence of wow fucked the genre. The merchants in charge went crazy when wow starting pulling in those numbers.

Yes.
Ultima Online
SWG
Camelot.

Is that new Raiden actor?

People have become too gamified, they want to "complete" the game instead of playing it. They think of it in a meta videogame context with best and fastest and most efficient solutions, instead of as inexperienced players looking into a digital fantasy world full of adventure.

MMOs can be good, but people no longer can't, and you need both for a good MMO experience.

I miss city of heroes so much.

Pretty much what this filthy slut said.

If you try to create a community in mmo's these days it either falls apart because the no fun allowed faggots destroy it or even worse the fuckign developers themselves!

You're insufferable.

Thanks my dude

I remember playing iRO hanging outfront of payon cave and meeting randoms just chatting for fucking hours before we decided to grind skeletons and zombies for hours where we also continued to chat about future grinding spots which we all did together like GH. This content held us entertained for fucking YEARS.

Its no wonder MMORPGs are dying when content consumption is so fucking rabid and I really have to wonder why it is that way at all because it is certainly by design. Shit ain't cheap and the copious amounts of forum whining and unsubbing between patches certainly doesn't help. And don't even get me started on the bandaid-on-hoover dam that is timegates.

WoW catches hell for ruining MMOs, but EQ2 was shit before WoW came out. When Asheron's Call released in 1999 it was a hot mess.

Ultima Online was fucking awesome if you played it in 1997, except there was loads of downtime. We used to check websites to see if servers were up, I think I might've had an app that launched the game if my server (Chesapeake) was up.

When EverQuest launched it was amazing, but you'd disconnect half the time you changed zones. Cities were 3-4 zones.

What I think really ruined MMOs were static worlds, cheaty websites and a younger playerbase.

We'll never recapture the good old days.

I don't know. I doubt it.

RO was just a fucking grind. WoW is grindy. Mabinogi is grindy, although you get to grind as a loli in ballet heels. Grind, itself, kills games. Anyone with the sense to avoid the fucking treadmill isn't going to be playing. There's nothing else to do, most of the time, other than raids- which quickly become a formula. Just the same shit, over and over again. There's no fun beyond the "fun" of pressing the lever over and over again, like a rat with wires led to its pleasure center of a leftist talking about "women and people of color" like magic words. No skill. Just button pressing, like the Stanley Parable, which really should be an MMO.

Defiance, as an MMOFPS, was fun until the developers fired all the good people and jewed the game to shit. Same story with Planetside 2, more or less.

If we find a way to genetically engineer people to feel shame, rather than joy, at bars extending across the screen, we might have better games one day.

The reason MMOS have a grind is because they need you to play for a very long time in order to recoup the cost to make an MMO. There's literally nothing that will keep you entertained otherwise, you need a long winded progression path.

It would have worked in the past, but not with the minmaxing wiki reading ADHD ipad generation of players.

nah, that guy already knew about the situation, he is just pretty chill about it

MMOs are only garbage because stagnant gameplay matched with horrible grinds. The key for any MMO to be successful is replace grinding levels with just loot and gear or in a mages cases a tome that teaches you a new spell or something

Either way incentivize interacting with your world and not just go A to B. Make a market reliant on players, and make factions player based. Where as a giant guild of elites could in essence control the world

I guess I'm just describing eve, but don't allow P2W features

...

Thats a chick

Level grind is just useless grinding, item grinding is the basis of every MMO leveling only exists to make you the play game longer.

Part of what made MMOs good, a good chunk even, was the fact they were a persistent 'living world' with other players. Nowadays, they're basically single player theme park games with player fueled economies and other players to yell at/be yelled at by.

MMOs don't cost any more to make than any other game, and the 'server uptime cost' meme has been BTFO so many times everyone knows that it's bullshit. It's just pure money printing greed, which goes to show why the two big subscription based MMOs (WoW and XIV) have fucking cash shops on top of their sub fee.

I will now discard everything else you have to say.

No.

No.

Even though WoW is objectively terrible, especially as an MMO, Wrath was basically its peak mechanically. Every Class had 2-3 functional trees, Ulduar was incredibly well-designed, and overall it was probably peak WoW. The game still had no depth. It would have been better off as Diablo with some dungeon segments. But, still, Wrath was pretty good.

Would have been better with 40-man Raids that were actually challenging, but what can you do? End of Wrath is when things started to get really bad, dungeons started being 5-minute no-though farm-fests, etc, but the first couple patches and launch were about as good as the game got.

...

VOIP, VR integration, 24/7 PVP, fully immersive, completely interactive, live marketplace, realtime combat, permadeath, etc. The only thing that comes very close is Lifeweb.

But mmos went the complete opposite thanks to WoW clones. RIP

If there actually was a game like that, it'd quickly descend into ganking and banditry, like ARK and DayZ.

WEW

The problem is that games used to rely on simulations. It was fun to create & interact with these little realities, and games, even singleplayer ones, were often about poking at a system and seeing what you could do with it.

The best MMORPGs had elements of this. They would incentivize roleplaying by making things you would "roleplay" a natural extension of how the game is played. In Ultima Online, the inventory system allowed you to simulate an actual bag, and it meant people would make elaborate sorting systems, but also elaborate traps to prevent their items from being stolen. Crafting could allow you to make basically anything, and this worked because even junk items were valuable. They stayed in demand because you could lose all your gear when you died, so you'll always have an audience to sell to.

It only works if the entire ecosystem, to a point, is simulated. If the whole thing doesn't connect through at least one major backbone system (for example, the economy), then the entire thing falls apart. The incentive is no longer to act realistic.

In short, the solution is a well-designed simulation that can naturally encourage players to fulfill roles, and they'll have fun doing it, even if they fail. The little things matter. The problem is that people are so uncreative, and locked into this "WoW is an example of an MMO" stereotype, they can't look outside and see that what sustains games is a complex simulation where a player always feels needed. Where someone can put 100 hours a week in, and still have more they _could_ do, but without that giving them too much of an advantage by poopsocking.

UO and EVE are really the ultimate here. I prefer UO, but EVE is a great example of the latter, and how putting time in can affect infrastructure outside the game. Guilds in both formed literal cartels, and would collaborate to control territory & resources. They could build bases, hold secret meetings, build infrastructure, and assign other players to carry out specific duties. You needed to actually meet up to talk in UO. You had to send scouts out to recon an area. You had to buy plots of land, and fortify them.

I could keep going on. UO had some quirks that were odd, like ghost spies for dungeon spawns, but overall it was literally just trying to be a simulated online world. The problem isn't just players. If you give even the most autistic player a sandbox that's well-designed, he won't be able to break it. He can spend a week grinding up his crafting skills to be the first Grandmaster on the server, but so what? It's not like WoW where you'll be able to craft from powerful item that's Best in Slot until you start raiding for an early DPS advantage that he can't lose. All it means is that he'll temporarily own the top of the market and probably make a lot of money until someone else catches up. People can eke out a niche selling mid-tier crafting items if you actually need to replace gear periodically. Some players may even prefer to buy many lower-priced items than one really nice one, because what's the point if you're just going to die and lose it? No, you plan for each trip, and have a spare set in reserve.

That's why UO was the best: because the game accurately made people act like real adventurers, That's why games like WoW are cancer: because they want to throw you into the action and not let you worry about where your equipment is sourced from, or if you'll need to travel to another city, possibly at great risk to yourself and your property. The economy in UO was great. You could run a business, hire other players to do tasks for you, etc. In WoW, you just buy and sell for a market rate at a designated shop.

The thing is, idiots will mistake these deliberate design choices for "flaws", or "obsolete gamepaly". These people are morons. They're also the "problem playerbase", the people who want to treat everything like a game to win. The kind of people who have played WoW and all of its clones, and still aren't sick of the treadmill. That's fine. These people won't be interested in playing a game where they have to literally earn their place in the world. It will seem like too much work, and they'll want it automated. And when it doesn't happen, they'll leave. We only need the core 400,000 or so MMORPG players from a decade ago to join in on a theoretical new game, and I guarantee they'd come of the woodwork the moment a true simulation sandbox is announced.

It actually worked pretty well in Lifeweb. It fixed those issues by making players unequal, it gave different stats to different "roles"(classes). So you couldn't griff everyone as a maid.

some people have this strange idea of "completely unique items and or skills".
Holla Forums MMO idea threads are a laugh riot because of how horrible each and every one of them is.

I just watched a video of Lifeweb.

It looks like total shit.

you saw her naked or how do you know ?

difference betwen the pic and MMORPGs is that the giant in the picture is smashing the shit out of everyone with a fucking tree, and whoever gets close to him will get literally stomped to the ground, but in a game he would just be dealing 1000 damage to a tank, who can take the hits without problem, while the damage dealers would deal 10 damage at a time to the giant until his HP is at 0. Then they would do the same to the dragon, but its different with him, since he deals 1200 dmg.

I wish for a game where you dont deal numerical damage, but instead a hit from a damage source does either nothing, cripples you in some way, or instantly kills you

So it isnt "damn my damage/ HP pool/ lvl isnt bigger than his" but "Holy shit thats a fucking giant, swinging around a goddamn tree. If I get hit by that Im toast"

No, since there has yet been an MMO developed where you can defeat opponents by pinning them down with cuddles and incapcitate them with love.

I'll just need you to fix the internet real quick so everyone has

Mabinogi had potential. Great combat system for a F2P MMO, with shit like actually knocking enemies back, blocking, counter attacks, etc.. You can also convert midis to play on instruments in game.

youre living in 2005 still ?

Primarily depends on who you are playing with and how many ways the game allows you to have fresh experiences with said people.

WoW will be forever in decline because despite how many cool people you play with, PvP will never be balanced (and as fun as it can be) and PVE will continue to be boss fights with recycled mechanics. It's a theme park built upon the burial ground of once decent lore.

EVE does things a bit better by creating a much more dynamic world. Sure, the combat isn't terribly interesting one-on-one (and is sometimes rock-paper-scissors in regards to ship fits), but the game thrives on the "content" that is created by the actions of the players as a community. You have constant wars always fueled by different interests and funded by different people. There's a reason to play EVE that goes beyond getting a sword with bigger numbers.

Nah, just the reality, I'm sure you've heard of it.

so youre saying combat that relies on latency lower than 100ms isnt still possible in games with a lot of players ?
because I cant seem to see the reason for that.

Quads confirm, MMOs have never been good

This year was shit for video games

Well unless the internet has gotten significantly faster and more reliable in the last two years or so, having combat that instagibs you if you didn't dodge an attack in time is not going to be fun for a lot of people, especially those not living in the same country as the server.

newfagplz

The correct answer. CoH/V was something special in a way that no one has been able to properly capture ever since it closed.

Bought FF14 recently, it's an okay timesink but after playing it for a week I'm beginning to feel a wee bit burnt out. Single player games suck nowadays anyway.

I can land spelllocks pretty reliably on the last 100ms of a cast in vanilla wow in AV, or in wintergrasp with around 200 players around me

what kind of chink grind have you been playing

We were talking about MMOs where you die instantly if you get hit even once.

we were talking about latency, and if it is doable to have a combat with a lot of players where even 100ms plays a role

I argued that it is possible since even in a game from 2004 it is possible to reliably act on time even in a situation with a lot of players around

Yes, we were. And in a game where the first mistake kills you, latency makes a hell of a lot bigger difference than something where you can slap each other for minutes.

PSO is not an MMORPG. (Thankfully)

...

Did they get raped?

you have to deadzone the warr to win (more than 5 yards so he cant melee, less than 8 so he cant charge), teleport away when he pops bladestorm, and watch for other stuff that decides who will win

and the average fight takes max 30s

if you let him next to you, youre dead in 8s

vanilla is 10x faster

When MMOs were about community, making friends and having fun with a lot of other people, yes.

Nowadays it's all automated queues, instanced/phased outdoor events and areas, raid logging and cross server shit. Someone else said this about WoW's dungeon finder and I not only totally agree but it can be applied to a lot of other modern MMOs: "It's like I'm playing a single player RPG with very rude NPCs."

The game that perfectly illustrates the death of the old MMO and the birth of the new solo playstyle was Star Wars Galaxies. SOE killed the amazing sandbox in favour of yet another shitty class-based themepark and the game died immediately.

EQ, WoW, and everything that came after them sucked ass with a handful of exceptions, like City of Heroes, Dark Age of Camelot, Guild Wars, etc… and those games were only good because they did the themepark better in one way or another. I'd gladly take a new UO over any of these.

CoH/V had some fucking awesome combat. The game actually made you feel like you were doing something and not just decreasing numbers on NPC health bars. Haven't played an MMO since that felt that good (though Guild Wars came close and had better PVP).

My friends and I used to joke about how Runescape was "the only MMO you play alone". Jokes on us: every MMO is like that now.

yeah
I sometimes hop on a private server that has dungeon finder disabled and its a pretty big difference

Aou actually see people searching for groups, talking with each other and organizing shit, then you walk to the summon stone and the other guy is missing, because he wants to finish a quest so he can have some cool new helm but is missing an item, the other guy in the party says he has the item and goes to give it to him. Then you start talking about something with the tank since you are waiting on those two fags. And thats how stuff happens.

But if everything is automated, you just click at the accept button, get teleported, see some random 4 idiots in there with you, get it over with ASAP, and teleport back out.

Adding in new "content" wont always make the game better, maybe for some extreme associal grindfags and casuals who dont have time to actually play the game.

I really wish we could have an MMO that couldn't be datamined.

I want to have to ask other players where i get that cool chest piece and find out they got it from some rare creature in the middle of nowhere and then go on a fucking journey myself with no clue what i am doing. or do dungeons without 20 fucking guides on youtube telling me how to sleepwalk through a hardmode.

for hours and hours

Nah they're interactive chatrooms OP.

I don't like socialising with people and just want to be on my own in my free time but if you're looking for internet friendships MMOs can be nice I guess.

As do I. I remember that I tried to log on once I heard it was closing down, but I didn't make it in time. I had issues with my password, so I had to call up NCSoft to let me in. By the time I had downloaded the patch and launcher, it was over.

Part of me still wants it to return, but the environment isn't right for that to happen. I know it will just show up as a cookie cutter mmo if it does right now.

well user, if you can wait til 2020 and the world is not over before that you could enjoy City of Titans or Valiance online….
or the carcass known as Champions online still avileable but awful at best

Current Champions Online is rather damn depressing, a lot of potential in the game. Game was kinda standard, but the ability to basically tailor fit your character's powers was fun.
There's also DC Universe Online, I enjoyed it playing with another person, but a good bit of the fun powers/weapons are dlc and are stupidly powerful.
I mainly enjoyed it for the PVP, since a big group of low levels could take out high level players if they worked together, and the PVP servers have world PVP as well.

Champions Online started off pretty good, but just fell hard after a while. The Perfect World sale ended up putting the final nail in the coffin rather than revitalizing it like many had hoped. It used to be a lot of fun, but several aspects of the game were really off. The crafting system in the game was beyond useless and not at all comparable to the inventions system from city of heroes/villains.

I got into dcuo for quite some time, but they pushed the cash shop too hard for me. Gearing become a pain in the ass very quickly if you fell behind. They also swung the nerf hammer around without care. Those retry tokens were a terrible addition to the game.

God damn I hate those faggots and their bullshit wikis.

I need some fanart

If you can't spank naughty loli players in one then it's not a good game.

Hot

Wasn't ultima online and everquest fun?

I was born too late to enjoy actual MMORPGs. I got to see wow ruin it and then koreans rape the corpse

The engine was horrendous, same for the effects and animations.

UO yes, EQ not for me.

Yes, back before Edd, Ed & Eddy online died

WoW is basically carbon copy of EQ and EQ was carbon copy of Diku/SMAUG/ROM MUD. Yes, all the shitty mechanics, endless grind, holy trinity - everything can be backtraced directly to MUDs from early 90s. Those mechanics worled fine for text-only game played over telnet but they translated like shit to graphical games.

UO was a lot of fun. The main thing about it was that when you died you lost your stuff, and you could own houses that could be stolen from if you weren't careful. When you left town you could do whatever to whoever. It made it fun and scary to have to risk it, and there was a naturally forming economy to supply everything. No games really get this anymore. Its dead now.

you got EVE online i guess, but the "game" part of it is mind numbingly boring.

Can you even play that game without it becoming like a second job?

The combat and combat related systems were amazing. Had flaws, but build making was so fucking good.

MMORPGs were never good and will never be good unless we get rid of leveling and all the other archaic, arbitrary skinner box bullshit and replace it with good gameplay.

There were a few mmos that were enjoyable gameplay wise but suffered to p2w gachapons and little to no advertisement in the west at least. Only reason cyberstep is still up in the west is probably because of their niche audience who are also cash whales probably. C21 was the first in the series of cute-like mech online game which seems to focus more on pve and exploration. Then came along cosmic break which was faster-paced and introduced moebots and the selection of one of the three factions as it focused more on pvp arena but had an arcade-style pve instead and many players complained when OP as fuck non-robots were introduced in the gachapon. Finally came Cosmic League also known as cosmic break 2 in japan which has some improved graphics and extra features but still retains the focus from cosmic break on arena pvp. Haven't really played that one so I don't know how it goes.
What pisses me off though is how they distanced themselves from actual robots or /clang/-tier robots to moe girls with robot-like parts on them and actual OP moe girls who are not robots to begin with and that usually means overpowered p2w bullshit. Proof of that is how they changed the faction leaders from Cosmic Break from actual robots into typical anime characters.

pre-UO:R UO player here. EVE's economy is nothing like UO's. Also, for people in the thread to understand since things were very different back then, "lose your stuff" in UO generally meant losing very little real effort (except very early on prior to the housing changes, but even then it wasn't much by modern grinding standards). Usually we're talking about losing 1-5 minutes of effort, at worst maybe 30m but people would have fits like you would not believe over it. It's not like EVE's life-devouring money fights. Also, you could max (7xGM) a dexer build in a day (including resist if you knew how to grind it efficiently) unlike EVE's extremely long character build times. And when I say "max" I mean there is literally no further progression possible other than player skill. As such, UO's economy was really 'emergent' and not forced into the systems of the game like EVE.

I submit as an example of how poorly people handled small losses,"Jeff, the unsatisfied customer": belan.variadic.org/jeff/jeff1.html . This is from back when I was an internet famous roleplayed looter around 1999-2001.

It looks a bit better than SS13 and you autist Holla Forumsermin sure love that shit.

Holy shit those are some ancient memes, look at the fucking resolution.

Yeah, I was hosting it for 'free' on various sites which required keeping everything small. The site was only about 70MiB /total/ yet it got 120GiB of traffic a month which cost around $500/month. Various people would offer to host it then shit themselves and run when they realized the cost.

>I submit as an example of how poorly people handled small losses,"Jeff, the unsatisfied customer": belan.variadic.org/jeff/jeff1.html
This is great. Bookmarked for later reading.
You glorious faggot.
Wish I could have been around to play that game. Everyone always seem to praise it to the high heavens but I have no idea what it was like.

So I see the praise for UO, and I know some friends of mine also enjoyed it. Is Ultimate Forever a good re-model, or does it fall short of the original game? I want to get into a good MMO with friends, but don't want to get people turned away if Forever is sub-par.

Neither did the designers. Every great system in UO was a mistake. Rares were a large set of bugs, the server war was an artifact of /awful/ server coding, exploration was just shoddy map design, IDOCs and the associated chaos were an artifact of map cleanup. They didn't understand their own game as they looked at it as how they intended it to work rather than how it actually was working and so they 'fixed' it to death. It's why none of the designers of UO are worth listening to for design advice.

...

Huh, so most of what made UO great was unintentional? That's kind of depressing actually.

Going to second this. Might be fun to get even a small glimpse of what it was like if there's still some remnants of the game before they started 'fixing' it.

Collecting heads in UO was fun.

As for MMORPGs as a whole, people might shit it them and a lot of it is probably deserved but until AIs can pass a turning test, massive online playing is probably the most fun you can have if done right. Too bad most of them do it wrong.

You are wrong about everything, ESPECIALLY effects.
Not flashy enough?

I wish for a good MMORPG Harry Potter game. How would you handle it, Holla Forums?

Star Wars Galaxies was good, until it wasn't. Other than that, no.

EQ

You can fuck Hermione

Lol no. It was great as a real-time tactical pvp game, but otherwise it was worse than WoW. It might as well had been a singleplayer cooperative game.

GW2 was suppose to fix that, by finally letting you move and jump freely and not get hit by a random lightning ball 10 feet away from you due to lag.

Literally Black Desert.

...

This is just off the top of my head, so it might be shit.

I imagine players would divide into three sets; pranksters: who don't bother studying, and instead put their all into sabotaging the other houses
Diligent students: who try and study to get their houses over the line
Prefects or goody two shoes types: who mainly focus on protecting the diligent students from pranksters from other houses.
There would need to be some system in place to stop players from intentionally ruining their own houses chances at the cup. Maybe an expulsion if you get caught doing too much bad shit, and then having a percentage of the bad shit wiped from the house's record on your dismissal?

What about the secret rooms we kept finding in singleplayer? How do we keep them from being a mess where 200 players around the castle keep spamming their alahomora on walls?

Yes, but you have to play them when they're ripe and when it's their Era

RO was great for its time
Runescape was great for its time
Vanilla WoW was great for its time

No, MMOs have only gotten better.

Everything on the internet was fantastic at one time, but that was way back before all the third-world trashcanistan countries discovered it. Now we have garbage people from Brazil, Mainland Europe, Russia, Asia and various Pacific island nations fucking everything up.

Agreed. FF14 at first seems to have unknown potential, until you've done all quests, EX bosses, endgame dungeons/gear, and turn coil armor (this is 2-3 years ago). You realize there is no potential when you experience it all, and look back at its shallowness. (pre heavensward, not touching the game again)

When dev's realize that players create longer lasting content as opposed to update-locked content consisting of shitty dungeons/raids/bosses that take the team 4 months to make by adventuring and experiencing the built world, come get me.
Instead of making the future endgame content & rewards of armor with 2% better stats, make a better game foundation. New craft skill, more depth in what you can do for a skill, better transportation, newer skill-based technology i.e. steam engine age, adding in experiences on top of the daily adventure.

This thread is related to this thread.
Anyone played DAoC Dark Age of Camelot? Private server starting up apparently tomorrow, if you are interested or have info of DAoC post in that thread. Its not a WoW clone if that can sway some of you to play it. Sandbox elements.

Feels bad man

Mortal Online would be the best MMO if it werent for the fact that the company that owns it is shit.

Ded thread

In what possible way? GW had…

In what way was it worse than WoW?

It's a shame Black Desert turned out to be a Korean grindfest shithole of bad MMO design.

I miss old MMOs. I only caugh the tail end of UO, but EQ and AC were my jams.

The design philosophy was "make a world" instead of the modern one of "make a game for many people." Things like ACs monthly story progression, being able to drop items on the ground, meaningful player interactions, consequences to your actions, etc.

I think the main failing of modern MMOs is that research paper that looked at MMO players and divided them up into categories. Off the top of my head two of them were wolves and sheep. The theory was that sheep just wanted to play the game, level up and quest and shit, but wolves wanted to prey on the sheep. Steal from them, murder them, grief them, etc.

Modern MMOs decided that since the majority of players were sheep, and wolves made sheep enjoy the game less, that they could reach a wider audience by making it impossible for the sheep to be preyed upon. The problem is that without the element of danger the game is no where near as interesting. MMOs were good because they attempted to simulate a fantasy world for players to inhabit. The world is not always a nice place, there are dicks and thieves and murderers. This is part of the fun of playing those games. My most memorable times in those games were all interactions with other players. And not just chatting to people in a text box while i killed NPCs.

Shit like begging for a teleport in EQ, only for some cunt wizard to accept, and teleport me to a dungeon i was no where near equipped to escape from, and spending hours trying to creep around the insta-kill mobs and waiting for other players to show up so I could use them as a distraction. Or following people into the woods in AC (no trade window in that game, you had to drop things on the floor/in a chest) and sprinting in at just the right moment to steal their shit.

Don't fucking remind me.
Shit was best MMO I ever played, mostly because I hate EVE gameplay. Why did they turned it into p2w?
WHYYYYYYYYyyyyyyyy?

Take what he said and add some cool mechanics and good character creation + base building.
And you will result in Overlord that would actually be Holla Forums's perfect MMO.

Shhiiiiiit I done forgot about Overlord. Is it getting a second season?

it fucking better. Japan owes us this for all that moe shit.

Most likely not.

And while we are at it how are VNs? I mean English ones? Polish translation is pure cancer.

No idea, I don't mess with VNs.

You seem to be able to write/speak english well enough though?

MMORPGS will never truly be good because we simply don't have the technology to actually deliver a "real" large world to venture around in. the adventure aspect of MMOs dies immediately as the games get mapped out on day 1 and have little room for physical expansion. you can't make things that only a handful of players might experience themselves through exploration either, because you have to make methods for everyone to be able to do the same thing, raids and the ilk.

any chance of exploring some fantasy world with lots of real people gets dashed by the existing metas of MMOs pretty much upon release

as far as gameplay? no.
but "people" like the old ones for their hipster communities

It's getting a recap movie, hopefully in preparation for season 2

No, they've always been a plot by to weaken American and European men by having them waste away in front of a screen instead of keeping their governments in fucking check

I still have hope for a .hack// fantasy VRMMO some day. By then I'll probably be too old but I guess I can be like Phyllo giving out advice to younger players. Minus the cancer of course.

Not saying I disagree but how is that any different from talmudvision or any other video games, even porn?

Fucked up, wrong one.

Never trust the Koreans man.

Literally is Mortal Online