DEUS EX PHILOSOPHY THREAD

I was tempted to let illuminati do what they want but I remembered how their leader kept previous leader in "fridge" and all related shennigans. I joined with helios. And i need to confess i kinda liked Icarus personality

Dark Age ending is best ending

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I knocked the guy out at the controls to self destruct the base and brought him with me. It didn't show in cutscenes but I ran with him on my shoulder.

Best DX ending is the Dark Age ending, provided that Tong's plan actually worked. Otherwise merging with Helios is the only logical decision.

After a few unsuccessful attempts to play the cracked version, I picked MD up on sale and already half-regret it. The first stage made a decent first impression compared to HR but all of the story segments afterwards are unbelievably preachy and overwrought.

Tong's plan wasn't really a plan, it was simply to burn everything to the ground so people could rebuild. It was really the only solution that was set in stone, the other two had the risk of being shit: the Illuminati ending meant things would improve but it guaranteed a certain level of shittiness by keeping the existing power structure, while the Helios ending was the high-risk-high-reward choice since it could either end in an unstoppable tyrannical power or the next best thing since sliced bread.

Read books you easily impressed little shit

Never made it because the game's fucking long. Still, was fun.

It clearly says cum all over, you fucking queerboy

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You can carry Page out of the exploring complex? Neat

In hindsight now we know what the illuminati were like before the game since we see them act in MD and HR. They're terrible and let so many people suffer without them actually getting any profits from aside from Page and his coon boss.

Nice recoloring of that, I get your reference bro :^).

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sent ;)

It really isn't a good idea to judge the endings based on the sequels though, considering the fact that they are essentially tacked on.

No, it was only really a plan if he could be taken at his word and a global blackout was possible. If the technology could easily be repaired or reinstated it's a dumb move, if a New Dark Age was really attainable it's a good idea. The Illuminati ending is a pretty naive ending that doesn't address the real problems in the shadow government's power structure, even the developers seem to consider it the "bad" ending

Honestly HR and MD are trash. The illuminati in the original game made sense. Tong's approach results in anarchy, plays right into the hands of organised crime, you'd be condemning the world to something far worse than the other 2 endings.

Helios ending I never agreed with because the lack of empathy Helios had would eventually lead to systematic and often wrong approaches to appeasement. Eventually the Helios AI would come to the conclusion that Humanity was from the get go the problem and the key to resolving these problems is eradication as opposed to control.

The illuminati is the best ending, JC is integrated into their ranks allowing him to oversee a large portion of power. The illuminati in the original Deus Ex simply manipulated global politics not for profit but rather to create the illusion of order where there was most likely none. The illuminati is the best ending because its so open to interpretation. JC may end up doing what he did to MJ12 and UNATCO to the Illuminati in the end- we don't know. But one thing is for sure that the world the way it was being run remains the same- its a bleak dystopia yes, but the two alternatives are too extreme to work and would result in even greater hardship for humanity.

I felt like the ultimate final outcome of the illuminati ending is that eventually JC overthrows Morgan and sets everything right in the world. I don't believe for a second after all the mistrust JC had in Morgan that he'd just hand over Helios like that. Also I've wondered what happens to Paul in that scenario too because Paul is against the Illuminati so JC going down that path is sort of a betrayal.. That said Paul is a faggot Marxist and its probably better if he remains dead.

I still like the idea of JC being head of the Illuminati.

Aren't you forgetting one?

Helios is merged with JC though.
Helios(complete logical computer) + JC(human compassion empathy) = God

I agree in HR and MD it is just "muh illuminatie" "muh evil" and "muh augs". Barely any meat, just control and nothing else.
The original gave reason why they did shit, how, what and the struggle they had to make. Sure they wanted control but not only that.

Well you are forgetting the part where destroying Area 51 would also kill Bob Page, thus eliminating both the only head to the shadow government (since he effectively got rid of the rest of the leadership) and destroying a vast enough amount of the communications infrastructure to ruin the already fragile economy. With no ability to organise, the shadow government would fail since they were stretching their resources thin to maintain absolute control.

You have no guarantee though that Helios wouldn't simply control JC. The program could easily have seen JC as a tool as he had up to that point and used him to gain even more power, someone that can single-handedly destroy the Illuminati is most definitely someone you would want as a friend/puppet.

Thanks, you have a pass for 1 free sexual now

Invisible War made it clear that Helios overpowered JC Denton and turned him insane. That's why I say the Helios ending isn't all that great because there was always the risk the AI would do that and then just act like a machine again.

Invisible War isn't as bad as people make it out to be. The console shit is annoying yes, but as far as nonlinearity and choice is concerned it does a really good job, especially with the unlockable endings. I prefer it over HR and MD, HR is stronger than MD but its weaker than Invisible War because of the boss fights and the god awful ending, Invisible Wars ending was actually pretty good.

The counter-argument I've seen is that there's no guarantee another similar group would not move in to fill the void of leadership.

If you're talking about the renegade ending you're right, because by the end of IW all I wanted to do was kill everybody involved in that stupid game.

True but how can you be sure that Morgan won't just lock you in a freezer?
"JC join us and we can work together it will be great! Oh by the way I just picked up some nice steaks, can you go fetch them from the freezer real quick?"
Both illuminati and helios endings had JC rise to power, helios ending was guaranteed transparency while illuminati was a possible enlightened age.

I never could get into IW but that is an interesting situation. Maybe I'll check it out again.

Yeah I took renegade for IW too, I didn't want any of this shit existing as it spun too far out of control. JC and Paul, Omar, WTO, the Order, kill them all! That world was madness and I wanted it to end! For many including that may be the best of the endings.

When I was a kid I thought transhumanism was the shit so I went with the merge ending every time.

As I've grown up and seen how horribly shitty the internet and globalism is, I've started to side more with Tracer Tong.

I know it was sooo awesome. I especially loved putting a bullet in Pauls head. I liked how you basically had a heap of choice in that last mission and it wasn't just an arbitrary "Pick one" certain endings were harder to accomplish, other endings were completely locked off requiring a replay the omar ending and I believe the Templar ending both require pre-requisites. But the other endings don't. I thought that was more innovative over what had been done in Deus Ex 1. HR didn't even try with its ending.

There would most definitely be a move, but without a means of communication it would take centuries for a singular group to rule above the rest. As Tong said, it would result in small governments that the average person can understand, which is due to the fact that the power structure would be shattered in so many parts that no individual would have the power to rule the world. Fuck it, even the Triads would end up splitting into parts because there is no way they could hold onto all of that power.

I don't think he would lock JC in a freezer, I think he would simply activate the killswitch without him knowing. By the time JC realises that he is dying, it would already be too late. Both of the Dentons only survived because they were actively aware of the killswitch being online.

It was a sort of tongue-in-cheek comment but I'll admit the final mission was the only choice I liked in IW. As far as the rest of the game is concerned I'll have to disagree, every choice felt like an arbitrary crossroads and the decisions held little permanence since you could still switch sides in the dispute at several points. Are you saying the DX1 endings are "pick one" or was that a jab at HR's ending button prompts?

Well that's why I made the qualification, it's a good plan as long as Tong can be taken at his word that A51 really is such a significant communication center. Who's to say the elites don't have some sort of backup plan? The world might be fragile but it seems unbelievably stupid on their part to put all stock in one location

Tongs thought process is admirable but would only really work if what happened was known to everyone in the world and was able to be passed down forever. But we all know history repeats itself and mankind will eventually end up back in the situation that it just got over.

this one. HRs ending was a total cop out, its almost as bad as Mass Effect 3's endings. All you got was a different cutscene, one even comparing George Bush to Hitler.. KEK. All of HR's Endings are marxist propaganda. There's also hypocrisy about the GFC being shown because Square Enix wouldn't even have the Deus Ex IP had it not been for Eidos' demise. Those endings all sucked.

Deus Ex 1s endings were similar to Invisible Wars, you had to earn them, which I loved. I agree that throughout the game though your choices had no consequences, pick the Order to WTO no different since they're both the Illuminati, so nothing you did in the early game even mattered anyway. I'm not denying its problems. But I am trying to point out that HR and MD had more problems than Invisible War had. Its like they didn't even bother learning from past mistakes.

It's what ifs like this that make each ending have merit and a "fanbase" that makes sense.

I buried Page in packages of chips and teabagged Helios' console, then noclipped away.
I didn't need them for godhood.

does it matter? JC denton fusing with Helius is the canon ending according to invisible war

No, Tong's plan works for any case, whether it may be that people know or not. The point is to cause a collapse strong enough to shatter the existing power structure into a million different pieces that each tries to pull its own way. Even if you were to educate the majority of the planet, it still wouldn't make the power structure to magically go away. The point is to make it impossible for one to exist for long enough so that so many will have formed that it would take forever for a new new world order to form.

The best ending is illuminati ending, or at least the least shit ending.

But it is inevitable that one will arise one day.
Why not force one that will work for the betterment of mankind rather than gambling that a good one will surface.

JC isn't eternal though, only the AI has potential to be, and even then it can still be eliminated like it almost did when Icarus merged. And that is assuming the AI isn't simply manipulating with you.

Wasn't Page attempting to become data within Helios causing him to become eternal?
I know JC didn't do that but there apparently is the possibility of becoming eternal.

I blew everything up because I thought it was funny to hear everyone except Tong beg me not to kill them.

All endings are more or less canon according to IW

Why not? His augmentations ensure at least an unnaturally long life, and Helios isn't eternal either if the technology isn't maintained

I swear I made this post already but I guess it got eaten

I merged with helios because it appealed to my fetish

Generally though I'd probably go with the join morgan one because I don't want to fuck up all of humanity and yet I also didn't fight for my own self-preservation through the entire fucking game just to turn around and give my body and individuality to an AI without knowing the consequences. Morgan was a shady backstabbing fuck but joining up with him seems like it has the most potential for preservation both of myself and humanity

Paul didn't beg though

He was already dead. I didn't know how to save him back then.

TBH I still don't know how to save him even but I never looked at walkthroughs. Both times I played I killed all the people in the apartment building. He ended up dead in UNATCO's basement either way.

That is because you left through the window. All you have to do is leave the apartment room together and you can die afterwards if you want, you don't even need to leave the building.

The absolute easiest way is to go push the button again for the secret closet and stand in there until Paul finishes killing everyone. It's kind of funny that he's invincible during that scene.
Just don't leave through the window.

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