What are your thoughts on feminism?

critical theory does not work thats why the dialogue will always be limited when it comes to this topic

You fuck hookers because you're creepy and lonely and want to be a Finnish liberal politician, you're not really an authority on the topic of sex relations.

Proletarian feminism > all

Holla Forums just doesn't like it because it makes them feel threatened.

I should be, since I have personally partaken in commodification of sex.

So you fucked hookers now you can talk about communism

golden opportunity for baneposting missed

Why don't you give yor opinion then. I'm genuinely interesting in knowing what is your view of feminism.

This is false. Feminism was always mostly hated through out history.

At least they are socialist and recognise the importance of class struggle.
Comrade-tier/10

Self interested fuck who don't give a shit about anyone who is working-class even the women.
Gulag tier/10

What does that even supposed to mean you mongoloid?

Feminism has and will be useful. Extreme idpoler's that want your life to end the minute you make a minor infraction against any oppressed group are obviously an annoyance and something we should be cautious about adopting/tolerating, but the other extreme is still more dangerous. Right wing identity politics has led to fascism in the past and continues to be a strong force in world politics, the reality is "left-wing" identity politics no matter how annoying it might be to you on a personal level still hasn't had any major negative impacts on actual government or governance yet. Getting kicked out of your favorite reddit group is not equivalent to getting gased. Token identity's are reaching a dangerous point but as we saw with Hillary, Obama, Thatcher and Merkel, people aren't fooled by token identities ripping them off and we got to a point where even the common man can sift through their nonsense.

To the extent that feminist and minority movements can be helped by socialism we should encourage them and seek them as allies for now.

Once again, anfem reveals herself to be merely a bigot of a different form

Women and class struggle have long been associated with one another because largely, in class women have been fucked for a majority of time.

We have labor now, more freedom than ever before in terms of economic mobility, however this does not mean anything of virtue.

All we've gotten is baby boomer freedom, freedom to be employed. Which is good.

However, bipolitical bullshit comes in at this point. Reproduction, the family unit, it still has impact on us.

And it costs valuable time and money and effort and labor, labor we ourselves do not get anything for necessarily.

It's difficult to fully explain, but there's difference in cultural tendencies that is related to class that needs to be addressed if class is to be destroyed.

There is no analysis that can be build form those elements that would not be intersectionalism, thus by its nature it would end up as something to undermine class struggle.

Biological sex in culture and fucking hookers are about as related as you are to your cousin. You could dabble in the two, but it's not necessarily a smart idea.

Again you want to be a liberal politician, you're as separated from actual poverty and class as you can get.

This is false. The internet has not been really caring about feminism until the 2010's.

We both know why. It is revolutionary in any sense.

It is Holla Forums.

So were wast majority of leftist leadership trough the 21st century form Lenin to Trotsky.

And? Lenin said just as much about women's emancipation as I currently am.

Critical theory is not reducible to intersectionality, you moron. Read a fucking book, for Christ's sake.

Yes and Marx would agree with the emancipation of the fairer sex too. Point is, that any analysis that build on this premis of pre-determining the relations between class struggle and X will inevitably but these two in direct or indirect conflict that would lead us nowhere.

In terms of realpolitic and how it has developed leftist movements it has been.

This is bullshit and there is no reason not to discuss women's role in capitalism. There just isn't any reason not to. Everything you're saying is horse shit. "You can't do it for xyz", I'm going to do it because you're not the one heavily pushed into being a mother and caring for children they're not necessarily ready for.

Motherhood in any sense is related to class or lack of it.

You're a liberal Fin, you don't know shit about poverty.

You have no idea what you are talking about, you fool.

Depends of the place. In France i.e. the women who chose to stay at home taking care of the children will receive a really nice sallary from the state.
In Sweden parents are allowed a two year leave to take care of the children.

Still doesn't change the fact that feminism was attacked at all fronts ever since appeared in the first place.

Or in other words, its indifferent to class.

There are nearly 100,000 finns who rely on food aid, you don`t know what you`re talking about.

Liberal platitudes of financial gain are not solving fucking problems you god damn liberal. It does not address poverty and women and class fucking anywhere.

I've been on the internet since the late 90's, you have no fucking clue what we're talking about. Conspiracy theories about UFOs have been replaced by identity politics centered around race relations and sex relations.

Because of largely, image board autism that ruined communities.

If you can't read or think, if you are as separated from the lower class in your life as you are, it is not different from class.

However not everyone is like you, not everyone is bougie.

You're not one of them.

I am not separated form the lower classes in any real sense. I went to the same public educational system as everyone else. I work the same hours as anyone who is employed and I live in apartment that is rented like everyone else who is working class. Sure, my tax rate might be higher than it is for the average citizen and my income might be bit on the side of being middle-class but that does not mean that I am separated or alienated form rest of society in any meaningful way!

Why do we need to discuss it every day?

Our focus is class struggle, I don't care if porky is male or female.

You don't know what being poor is, and it's what I grew up. You're some white fuck who's lonely who decided to gloat on leftypol you sell art or some shit.

In every sense of the word, you are a liberal, and you do not speak on behalf of the worker, the laborer, the one who was beat into admiring success because there wasn't an alternative, the one who is pressured into children I'm not ready for or can afford, for everything you are I am not. I was not. I probably won't be.

And it is an issue. Because poverty is a lived experience for men and women.

1st Don't call me a liberal, because i'm not one. I didn't even said what's my position regarding feminism, i'm interested in knowing yours.

How it isn't solving problems? I would much rather be a stay at home mom receiving 60% of my previous sallary than having to put up with a boss and "having a career". Too bad i'm not a woman, so i will never be able to achieve this.

Poverty will be addressed as soon as capitalism will get disposed of. It is that simple.

Yes i know what i'm talking about. In the 1960's in my country the state controled by the far right dictator made anti-feminist propaganda. And before that it is well know that feminism was always attacked.
It is a well established fact that it was the feminist movement that got prohibition going in the US as a revenge for all the shit women had to put up for being feminists.
So yes, i know damn well what i'm talking about. Feminism was always attacked and hated upon, always.
Just because on the internet didn't happen until this present decade, doesn't mean that feminist movement was respected before 2010.

Here's the problem you don't want to hear.

You're white and your culture is so liberal and so seperated from class that you don't know the problems people from other cultures face in relation to class and autonomy and sex relations. You don't.

You were never yelled at for in a yelling match over the fate of my own body when it comes to bearing life.

You just fucking weren't. There's a disconnect here you don't have, and you won't understand.

It is entirely related to class, and you talking on behalf of the white working class even, is stupid, because giving people money to solve the class issue doesn't stop the class issue from existing, it just makes people numb and happy.

Socialist feminism is cool, it's the only valid form of feminism in my view

Liberal feminism = I'm okay with poverty and wealth inequality, I just want more diverse CEOs and political elites

What is your country? If it's in Europe, you don't know shit about what I'm talking about. Perhaps close, but I know feminism was hated. I had to deal with it for all my life, I'm not going to be pressured out of my own ideals by someone who hasn't even experienced what I have.

It was the last place I had to be away from the bullshit I heard at home. Thanks.

I was asked about specifics my job so I felt inclined to answer.

What does it matter if I`m white?

How is it of any relevance if I have never been poor? the social conditioning and structures of capitalism alienate even me and effect my class even as badly as yours, perhaps even worse if we are talking about psychological effects.

You will never understand the experience of manhood nor its demands form cultural and social perspective neither! so why should these biopolitic experiences be of any relevance?

Your culture.

Your culture related to your material circumstances.

No, they do not. The only reason I'm remotely succecful is I was beaten into wanting to be a mother, settling down in my twenties, all the while getting straight A's.

You don't know shit. You didn't have to bend your knees while holding two textbooks over your head for over an hour for daring to get something similar to a B because my parents came from a nation war torn and wanted my success at all costs among the white peers, they wanted me to be middle class.

I'm only successful from the scholarships and money.

My entire life has been work towards an unrealistic goal of a nuclear western family my parents demand I have.

And you will never, ever, know what the fuck that feels like, to be a material resource for someone else, and being beaten for not wanting it.

Because you're a white upper middle class politician wannabe who knows as much about class as you know about art.

Jack
Shit

tfw anfem will never suffocate you with her ass that's been perfected through the years by enforced squatting

First off, let me just say that before any r/socialism fags wanna use any of the posts in here to confirm their own views of what Holla Forums really is that generally we support the liberation of women AND men from the yoke of gender roles and expectations. Women shouldn't be pigeonholed into anything, and neither should men. That is the current reality, that men and women are held to unrealistic archetypes that generally limit the free thought of an individual through societal pressures. Not to mention the Spectacle and all of its expectations people struggle and stress over meeting.

But this fucking self described Asian Cunt is acting exactly how I would expect a feminist who is a cunt to act like.

Get this bullshit away from socialism, get this bullshit away from me, get this bullshit into a goddamn incinerator so the world may not have to suffer this corrupted sense of "equality". I appreciate SocDem fag for laying out the exact problem with this chick's argument: there is a whole mirror image to women's struggle and its called male gender role. Just as much as women are pushed pink shit and skirts, men are pushed into unhealthy expectations that we are supposed to be providers and strong and whatever the fuck have you. Goddamn man, learn some perspective. I understand women face struggle, and just like racism sexism and gender expectations need to be eradicated from this Earth. But feminism itself is an acknowledgement that in its own name that there is one important gender for struggle and not two.

At this point I'm going to judge you're just some Holla Forums shitposters who is trying to make feminists look bad.

This isn't about equality this is about class.

You're in the military and you don't know shit. You're living a life off welfare. You're not even from the draft.

You're talk of feminism is boiled down to "I DON'T LIKE IT, ALL I KNOW IS WHITE WOMEN"

Well not all of us grew up the same fucking way you did.

Get your liberal horse shit away from me and go to college easier than I could have, I heard that the military has great scholarships over everyone else for everything from pushing pencils to shooting civilians.

Also

Why the fuck would you care when your understanding of feminism comes from youtube videos almost certainly, or being yelled at. I thought the military wasn't supposed to be full of comfortable pussies

What the fuck you know about military service? Have you ever been forcibly conscripted into it with the threat of being sent to prison for 6 months?

Sage for obvious troll. Don't feed this shit, people.

My family telling me what Vietnam was like before they could leave. I know all about American military service. Admittedly, Vietnam is a stain on history. It was the draft, all men could do what they wanted.

But all I heard was talk of explosions, trying to get caught in trip wires outside of town, even driving, and the worry my mother had of being raped. Only to come to the country that decided to carpet bomb us and leave mines everywhere looking for a better life, and the burden of that pressure put on myself, and my life, to be more like you.

That's what I know about the military. My parents were not communists, they hated communists for starting this entire war, they became bitter rightists, but what I know for certain, is that the military does not make you honorable.

You know shit about your career as you do about other cultures. Did you ever serve outside the states? Infantry? Or what was it? In some NATO base somewhere else pushing some pencils? I'm curious how separated you are at this point from any urban environment and destitution.

The nuclear family is modeled on feudalism. The man is the feudal lord who owns the feudal castle and uses his family as peasants to tend to his property in exchange for his "protection." Please ignore the fact that the man is actually the one who has to be a wage slave in order for the system to work. Everybody knows that it's literally impossible for ideology to contradict the facts of the situation, therefore the ideology of "a man's home is his castle" proves that men are basically feudal lords. Relations of production are just a spook, mmkay? The fact that the surplus value of a woman's labor in the house more or less stays in the house while the surplus value of a man's labor in the workplace goes to a capitalist is indicative of nothing. Applying Marx's terminology to the ideology surrounding relationships is at least as valid as Marx's original analysis, mmkay? Liberating women from not having to be wage slaves is just as important as liberating the working class from not being wage slaves. There is nothing bourgeois about this ideology, nope.

The Left continues to rub married women from the history books. Now a woman is a transgendered 5-year-old.

I despise gender roles but most feminists just annoy me. Never met a decent one.

I know most of the harpies are tumblr-contained memes but I just don't get feminism really. The word itself annoys me.

We're reaching ideology levels that shouldn't be possible. Notice how even within the framework, the "womenist" is useless to the left but the brocialist is not.

Literally none of that is true. Stop reading psych-analysis and look at real, material history instead.

Nuke it with every other form of idpol.

Shit, was I not being sarcastic enough? I thought I was being sarcastic enough.

I can't read this because half of it seems sarcastic the other doesn't.

We've been part of the left and class struggle since the begining, just because there's more liberal white women around who want to feel special doesn't mean women of the world outside of them don't exist and aren't seperated from class.

Aren't you the faggot who said you couldn't get on orgies your rich aunt's friends are in or some shit?

You're being shit enough.

Half of you would cringe on what Lenin wrote about woman's emancipation, if you were there at the time of his beginnings to endings you'd bitch him out about counter revolutionary identity politics.

Different times

No, different cultures. Time doesn't matter.

The word is poz'd because of libtards and the anti-sjew s(k)eptics.
The word is fine, radfems are fine but "le bad words xD" "le all hwite men" is just lib-bourg garbage.

This is ancap-tier stupidity.

Pure ideology.

Oh fuck off, the nuclear family as it is, is private property arranged real estate scam shit sold to baby boomers about the American Dream.

You want to talk about the American Dream? Let's talk about all the people who tried it who's homes were foreclosed on and lived or still live in illegal tent cities.

That white picket fence was worth the effort.

I'm going to write a movie about this scenario.

Socialists are comrades, liberals are enemies. The emancipation of women is necessary to socialism and I see no reason to abandon socialist feminists because some rightcucks get triggered over some rainbow haired liberals.

...

There's no such thing as "white culture."

One person's individual personality is not his "culture."

Calm the fuck down you're starting to sound like Elliott Roger.

The same awaits you for waving the anarchist flag.

"Class" in the Marxist sense is a eurocentrist concept. How ironic you assimilate theories created by white people and try to use them to BTFO other white people who most likely know more about being white than you do.

It was structured like a paragraph, and I skimmed it. Some of it seemed authentic, other parts were clearly where you were being sarcastic. You just weren't laying arguments well for why something was necessarily negative.

If you're going to type up a paragraph I don't see the point in being snide and not just debating me on the matter. Which is the problem. All of you would rather see feminists as some sort of liberal feminist stereotype when we believe the exact same shit you do, we just understand the different material circumstances of women from place to place and culture to culture that need to be worked on in order for a less class based society to exist.

I honestly think it's just most of you don't understand material real feminism and confuse it with liberal ideology. I'm not talking about superiority of women or whatever shit. I'm talking about class politics and culture. I know it better than most of you know it, unfortunately. I didn't have much of a choice in being a feminist.I don't have much of a choice in ever abandoning it.

What's wrong about people wanting to live together as a family?
I do agree that this whole marrying, kids etc it's shouldn't be the forced upon people as the ultimate meaning of life. But there's lots of people out there who are genuinely very happy with that lifestyle.

COINTELPRO is here

There's such a thing as Vietnamese culture. Your absence of it, is "white". I suppose. Second or third generation Asian families are similar, you're right.

I never suggested that.

Holy shit did you even read fucking Engels you LARP shit.

I've never posted on reddit, the only other place I frequented besides image boards in the past is message boards, and twitter now.

Reddit is shit. If they can see this they can read this: Fuck off.

The nuclear family is bourgeoisie nonsense. Non-nuclear families are not ideal either but are certainly not reactionary.

Kek.

Nothing. But the idea we're too live as individual private property owners is a perpetuation of property, and capital. The Real Estate market is huge, and it relies on marketing this false reality that everyone should live a life with a cozy fireplace in a market that's far less comfy.

It also puts more strain on the parents not to raise family with community. It's a multitude of problems.

Family itself is not.

Economic reason for family is.

What culture does Finland have? All I can think of is fisherman, fish, more fish, cold, snow, and not being Norway.

Because the basic ideas of feminist analysis (I'm talking about "leftist" feminism, not liberal feminism) is absurd and has no basis in materialism.

Case in point. You can't have a "less class based society" except to have fewer classes. We only have 2 classes right now, meaning a "less class based society" would have 0 classes (1 class is incoherent).

youtube.com/watch?v=sIomA2MQNI4&feature=share

this is based feminist

Sibelius…

youtube.com/watch?v=4EyAQw42cW4

QUANTICO GET YE GONE

He linked to

Let's see what it is.

Culture invents class just as much as material circumstances do. You don't know about world history if you think any other way. India is indeed, just as much example.

Culture is shaped by material circumstances, sure, but communism cannot be achieved if you don't look at culture as well.

The economy is the primary problem, there are secondary problems. Feminism that isn't liberal is one of these secondary problems.

Reddit probably made it to bait everyone here into proving a point we're dirt bag leftists or something.

First off, we are a real culture, not some mixture of indo-european languages and peoples with their influences. Secondly our traditional religion is among the oldest in Europe.

What is more important in defyning culture is that is it culture that rises not form tradition and the people but by the artificial forces of markets or ideology ie. communist vietnam, USA etc nor is it actual culture that stands form those factors.

Ah I see you don't know shit about Asia. It's ok, I know some liberal Fin wouldn't.

Vikings, sure. I'd still put more culture on their outposts. Iceland preserves it better than most.

But to say that they are any more culture than we is nonsense.

You do know there was just as much nationalist Vietnam appealing to our culture. Who do you think the US fought for?

REALLY TICKLES THAT FRONTAL LOBE

Finland's culture is being cucked by Sweden or Russia, Nokia and also high rate of suicide.

And saunas.

Liberal anything a shit. In regards to socialist feminism, depends on who you're listening to. I like Abullah's view of feminism. Don't know enough about anfem to comment on it, but anarchism in general tends to let ideological issues get in the way of creating actual institutions of change.

I'm tired. What I'm saying is that culture exists that can prevent women from being anything more than livestock just as much as our modern economy can. Fighting for our own right to our own labor is just as real, and equal, to the fight for all of our labor.

Different labor does not mean lack of it. Women in different places deal with material circumstances of their culture differently. Some suburbanite girl is really going to have a different experience at home than I did. That's an individual case sure, but I know a lot of people who have lived this way.

Let's not even touch Hispanic family values, which isn't a criticism of Hispanic people, but the way the nuclear family is forced economically puts pressure to dehumanize women into outcomes rather than laborers.

It's different, it can be different, in the West, it all amounts to the same reasons.

And all of us, equally, are getting fucked by it. Fighting for our own rights as women, is not necessarily a role just for women. If you're any comrade, you would fight for our labor as well.

I'm an anarchist, but not an "anfem", the reasons I put the flag on are to be the local house feminist. But really, my view of anarchism is that the state is just as much of a route of organization as any other, it's a convoluted role of mechanisms to get shit done.

You can order it in a variety of ways, but the way it's currently organized is to serve Capital, and I would be for a collectivist state, I just think they get subverted easily, especially now after the Cold War.

I think lack of a state is preferable from a material perspective simply because it gives us an edge where we can't be subverted from the top down as easily. And the fight wouldn't be as terrible and difficult.

I don't know of many who share the view I have of the internet being a tool for collective good.

.>>1158570

err…everybody? The internet is ana amazing thing that simply got corrupted by capitalism, that's all.

I'm not even disagreeing with any of that. My point is that there is a huge contradiction here.

Since you say you want to have an actual discussion I'll make explicit where I'm coming from. There are absolutely cultural mores that reinforce class, but the left is rife with people who want us to sit around deconstructing culture and ignoring class. The problem with this approach is that capitalism will just adapt and create new culture, which means leftists will have to do more work to overcome the new culture later on. Culture has to be fought to some degree to succeed at any attempt to fight capitalism but dissecting culture to the exclusion of all else is a waste of time and energy. You can see this in action with modern and postmodern ideology changing in response to criticism. If anything, capitalist ideology has grown more robust in that process even though capitalism itself has degenerated. The result is the opposite of what was intended.

As for feminism specifically, it makes all kinds of assertions based on ridiculous analysis that I mocked here
When you defend feminism by saying "we just want to improve the lives of women," you're not actually defending the ideology. At best you're defending the intent, which isn't being questioned in this case. In practice you're distracting from what actually matters, which is the detail of the theory and praxis of feminism, which is what people criticize. So when you get frustrated that people won't engage with you, maybe take a step back and realize that you're ignoring the issues that people raise with feminist theory and dismissing all of our concerns with some shit about how we just want to make this a boys club or whatever.

Then what you are doing is playing the "moderate" who justifies the existence of the loons. You are not just using the motte and baily tactic you are being it.

No I mean, using the internet, or the darknet, whatever, as a means of revolution. I see it, that you steal enormous amounts of money and share it to the population before it can get traced, and by tracing you just put your foot steps similar to say, terrorist organizations that are reactionary that do it as a precaution. Moving the same way.

You spread the money fast to those who need it and offer a platform, for free money basically. The same way we robbed trains of gold or money, or the same reason in the depression we robbed banks.

You do this in transactions by multinational corporations between nations that aren't western and don't have as much security.

If the West makes money provided void, it would show the true face of Capital to that one homeless man who got $1,000 for his health and safety now, wouldn't it? It would both provide a platform and a way to motivate people to fight on our behalf and become revolutionary.

Ahaha. Never change, Holla Forums

But seriously, beyond knee jerk responses - my sense of the consensus here is that the main issue people have with it's comparison to class struggle. The two operate in completely different ways and lumping them together contributes to the obfuscation of the nature class so endemic in capitalism, and what must be done. The notion that gender equality functions the same way or can be resolved in the same manner as fundamental class antagonisms fosters a confused understanding of the class relationship and leads to reformism. Interestingly also - what marxists actually aim with class, total war and revolution leading to abolition of class itself, is precisely how many actual anti-feminists perceive the movement.

There needs to be a word for this level of artificiality.

The internet is a meme prison. You've become institutionalized

The only way out is to go further down…

ethereal

I know that. I know feminism is unfortunately full of liberals. But liberal suburbanites can call themselves leftists, they were never part of ourselves.

A fair bit of your critique is worthy of further thought on myself.

But it depends on how and what that actually is. Proliterian feminism is needed in the world, needed in poor communities. You can't ignore that it's needed, our fight for our rights in various ways. The west is not free because women are suddenly free now, we need critique of culture and how our own lower classes operate to subjugate in order to get what both of us want.

You have to just know poorer non-white communities like I do to fully grasp the problem at hand here.

I'm not suggesting that, I'm suggesting you don't understand what I myself argue, and others do, about working to fight for marginalized and poor women. Impovershed women.

Women who nobody gives a shit about and are forced to being ok to be mistreated economically by their own families than by the greater liberal understanding of how suburbia works at large.

Urban environments are not sanctuaries for feminism you think they are. There is always the places in LA I grew up in where I learned the hard way you either have to represent Machismo or be left as a bitch and go home to equally shitty circumstances.

It's difficult to explain why this relates to class, but there are issues not all accounted for, feminism does account for.

y'all can't think this is remotely acceptable in terms of intellectual honesty. disagree with feminism all you want, but at least have a loose grasp of its arguments outside of what you see on buzzfeed lol.

FYI your syntax is really confusing. I've read this post half a dozen times and I still can't tell what your position is.

Feminists can be quite POWERFUL

See, this is why nobody likes feminism and never ever will. You will descent into obscurity and stay there forever, anarcfems. Feminism almost single-handedly destroyed any chance socialism has had at every chance it got, and there is no place for you in the future.

Feminism is idpol cancer

Bill Clinton existed. So did Jimmy Carter. So did Obama.

This kneejerk shit is why nobody will ever take you seriously.

The main issue Holla Forums has with feminism is it's comparison to class struggle. In my opinion, The two operate in completely different ways and lumping them together contributes to the obfuscation of the nature of class that is so endemic in capitalist society.

The notion that gender issues function in the same way or can be resolved in the same manner as fundamental class antagonisms fosters a confused understanding of the class relationship.

Interestingly also - Marxist's actual position on class, (total war and revolution leading to the abolition of class itself) is precisely how many actual anti-feminists perceive the aims of the feminist movement.

leftypol becomes Holla Forums when faced with feminism and resorts to false dichotomies.

Hold up. You're identifying social problems that exist, but how do you get from recognizing the problem to deciding that proletarian feminism is the solution?
OK, what I'm seeing is that you're defining proletarian feminism as any attempt to address these issues. The problem with that is that feminism is an ideology. Claiming that any activity addressing certain problems falls under the feminism umbrella is flat out wrong. People can be anti-feminists in that they're opposed to feminism as an ideology while doing work to fix a problem in this domain. The practice of appropriating non-feminist activities as triumphs of feminism is arguably the defining feature of feminist ideology. For instance, there were activists fighting for universal suffrage since pretty much forever, but the suffragettes are who people remember. What you're talking about and participating in is a revisionist PR campaign. Except you're a step beyond even that by pre-emptively defining any activity in a certain category as being feminist. And then because of the associations with the label, those people are being associated with CIA plants like Gloria Steinem. This behavior that you're partaking in is in itself enough reason to be suspicious of feminism as potentially a counterrevolutionary measure, designed to discredit leftist movements by with deliberately crazy people.

Statelessness is great, but anarchists take it a step further and are even against collectives operating on a system of majority rule. This is what I mean by not being able to create institutions of change.

Holla Forums here, i wish feminism existed and was strong in the bolshevik mentality back in ww2, too bad you were led by a man and actualy won the war.

No matter how much you lie to yourself, you know it's true

Ah ok thanks. Maybe I was just being retarded.

You funny guy. I gulag you last.

Because most men don't understand women's issues as women do. Women who grew up in impoverished environments are best to describe our own conditions and how to help fix them in the ideal we both want.

Collectivism is also, an ideology. A multitude at that. But you focus on feminism as isolated.

How? I mean, I know liberal feminists talk about revolutionaries but they're still liberals.

But here's something I want you to do.

Name some revolutionary feminists in history, after 1945, that actually progressed our rights for the good. I can. I don't think you can. Because you just admitted as such.

There have been many communist feminists throughout that time period, and most of them weren't white.

Like I've been saying. Urban environments of poverty speak best for themselves rather than the liberal erasure of their voices.

You keep confusing liberal feminism for actual revolutionaries.

People like Assata Shakur

The USSR had women piloting planes and snipers kek.

neo feminism or feminism? liberal feminist seems to mean neo feminist to be honest. Libs are largely misguided idpol enthusiasts

If you want a good look at real feminists, look at black and asian women during the civil rights movement and before really. They had fbi files on all of them.

Sent women into space before the West even deemed women capable of being astronauts

Pic related.

Yeah, my mother was a feminist in the 60's, she would go to a lot of demonstrations. She classifies herself as a second-wave feminist, which is neat.
She also dislikes what the movement has become.

They sent dogs too, you know, they would send anything up there.

Piloting is not the same as ruling or leading, not even close. Look at Clinton, she had everything in her favor and manage to destroy the entire left-wing political class becaus eshe couldnt handle a fuckkin e-mail server. Put your faith in women to rule over you, see what happens. I guarantee it wont be pretty.

She was probably a Marxist. They all were.

If you think actual scientists considered sending a dog at escape velocity different from an actual human being, you don't know anything about A) Physics B) What the Soviets had to lose for killing anyone in space.

The space race was a battle of wits. If they killed her by accident or miscalculation it would be devastating for them.

Do you even know how many precautions are set before sending anyone into space at the time? To say a million things could go wrong is understatement.

When a single word can describe every ideology from radical anarchists to neoliberal professionally offended right-wingers, the word isn't really very useful.
Pick a better one.

The space race was a plot to waste resources of the soviet union you retard, and you still managed to lose.

...

The last time feminists fought for something beyond the equal treatment of women in Capitalism was during the cold war, and very specifically, the civil rights era.

The United States is still hungry for Cuba to give up Assata Shakur for life in prison for being an American revolutionary.

2 out of every 3 rape claims is false.

Except the US was involved and the results of both offered much of the technological capacity we have today.

Source? Because if all you're talking about is suburbia, perhaps you might be right. But this is in such a general way that I think I'm going to call you an idiot. You aren't even being specific in sex of the individual.

No, I'm saying that normies don't know the difference and feminism is used as a tool to confuse normies about the difference between leftism and liberalism. Liberal feminists pretend to be leftists while being obvious liberals so that if normies ever see a genuine leftist they will just hear the same rhetoric and assume they are liberals too. It's a boy who cried wolf scenario.

No, I can't. As far as I know they don't exist (I assume they must for this tactic to work). And I'm a leftist. Now how likely do you think it will be that normies will know any revolutionary feminists? If you want to work on any of the serious problems you mention, I'm not going to stop you if you're not trying to divert people from class. I would advise you not to call yourself feminist because it is almost entirely liberalism and its basis is in liberalism. Associating yourself with liberals is not going to help you improve people's lives in the short term or help you fight class in the long term.

SOURCE: McDowell, Charles P., Ph.D. False Allegation. Forensic Science Digest, (publication of the U.S. Air Force Office of Special Investigations), Vol. 11, No. 4 (December 1985), p.64)

I'm not. I'm working to speak on behalf of the class issues women face, because women and men are treated differently in impoverished scenarios among non-white communities.

Always push your dinglebop through a grumbo so your fleeb doesn't fill up with its own juice. Or you'll find out how badly hizzards can get in the way when you're trying to flag down a freelance blamph through a handful of chumbles. Spitting schlami optional. Ploobus.

Yeah bullshit. The 80's was still reeling from the crime decade that was the 70's, especially in New York.

May I suggest going to a non-English-speaking imageboard to whine about the patriarchy then?

Why does anyone take camille seriously? Even if you hate feminism she is just a new age hippy, mixed with outdated Jungian analysis and your conservative aunt who thinks she is hip because she likes Tay Swift and Meghan Trainor. Mix all this dog shit together and you too can write a Paglia tier social criticism.

ad hominem

He's right though. Page is a hack.

There are posters on this board that considers themselves leftists and think that a male prole can oppress female bourgeoise. All class antagonisims cease to exist in this scenario.

English is my native tongue. I can speak Vietnamese and Spanish, but I primarily speak English.

So I'm going to talk here because you can't ignore everything outside your suburban bubble.

That's one year after the Mary Koss "study" that is where Feminists manufactured their fake 1 in 4 women will be rAEped!!!

Honestly that's more accurate if the data was taken from the years before 1984 to the 70's.

I'd critique her work but it's self critiquing. Name a random movie and here is my Camille interp of it.

Something something, the eternal feminine shows how the feminists I hate secretly want the cock. Odysseus shows that women really want comfortable pussy wang dangling something when the star align. Pinker Quote here. t new york review of books.

Also I hate all the people you're comparing me too.

SPOOK

You're obviously not familiar with the "study". Old Mary decided on behalf of most of the women that she interviewed that they had been raped even though the women insisted they consented.

I wish I made that up.

A feminist blindly defending flawed and outright dishonest studies just because they support feminist goals? How unexpected.

What? No just testing your sense of humour. If you dislike those people, we're probably on the same side.

The study is irrelevant. I'm saying it's more close to the truth than the other study claiming that rape was false. You can't just say it's false, especially given the environment of the 80's and 70's.

The epidemic of rape accusations then were not actually for the same reasons you seek to see them now, many believed mass rape was occurring under gigantic Satanic cults that actually did not exist.

I'm talking about the 70's and early 80's in reality, in non white communities, and in white communities impoverished. Data would be more similar to the study, though far less numerous, than the study you provided suggesting all accusations were false because at the time period that's patently false.

Cities were shit holes, the rural communities weren't better, and exploitation movies existed for a reason.

Most rape claims are false. It's the same as suicide "attempts". It's just lies to get attention.

All I see is stream of unsubstantiated lies. You have zero credibility, so there's no point replying unless you're going to post some links to real sources.

Most rape cases aren't reported. This was much of the case during the 70's and 80's. The potential for bias for saying those who came out were false aren't really speaking much for law enforcement at the time.

Nobody gave a shit about people in poverty.

Where? All I see is stream of unsubstantiated lies. Crime was an epidemic during the early 70's to early 80's. You have to be an idiot to say everyone coming forward to talk about a crime was lying, particularly such a politically charged accusation that is credibility ruining. If crime was an epidemic, then so was covering it up.

The Reagan administration really isn't the best time to take a study.

Especially if it's from the U.S. Air Force Office of Special Investigations during the Reagan administration.

How do you know if they're not reported?

This is what happens when people have a Sarcuck tier understanding of feminist and queer theory
Half these shitposters don't even know any leftist theory

Not an argument

LISTEN AND BELIEVE

She keeps getting away with it.

lISten And beLIEve

Because they're reported by outside witnesses that are not the victim. If you want a government source that is not during the Reagan administration, from of all things the US military

here.

The Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) reports that the majority of rapes and sexual assaults perpetrated against women and girls in the United States between 1992 and 2000 were not reported to the police. Only 36 percent of rapes, 34 percent of attempted rapes, and 26 percent of sexual assaults were reported.

nij.gov/topics/crime/rape-sexual-violence/pages/rape-notification.aspx

I don't see why you're forcing me to comment on rape cases when both men and women are raped, and this is a discussion of class analysis. Other than the fact you associate feminism with rape outrage and internet outrage, which you yourself are guilty of by focusing the discussion on it.

Oh come on guys. I'm not a feminist but you should know better. Surveys. Also, they are underreported in large part because feminists tell women that reporting rape won't accomplish anything. They do this so that they can then show that OMGWTFBBQ rape is underreported!

I'd support feminism if it actually sought out analysis instead of being gussied-up gender tribalism

How do we know they are telling the truth? Did you know Hillary Clinton rapes little girls, sometimes smothering them to death?

I'd support your opinions if you knew shit about the last 50 years of marxist feminists supported by Cuba.

Holla Forums this isn't the time for selectively caring about rape cases.

How do they know she didn't consent?

LOL. Have all my internets!

You are the one obsessed with rape here

only relevant once we can prove the event happened. It's like asking why there isn't a univese made entirely out of Ivanka's ass cheeks.

I'm sorry, I don't live in Cuba you insufferable cunt.

Neither did they.

I don't mean just Cuba. I mean East Germany. The USSR.

Quite friendly terms with other American Marxist figures.

There's no such thing as talking to a Feminist about Feminism without said Feminists bringing up rape. Deal with it.

And yet it's still all the same trash.

see

Please note that I will dismiss any response unless you can demonstrate an understanding of the details of Hoxhaist-Burgoynist post-racial feminist theory.

I have yet to bring up Rape the entire time I've posted here. Which has been since last March.

Not once.

However anti-feminists from Holla Forums are quick to crunch debate of class and women into talking specifically about what makes them laugh.

I am fine with anti-feminists on Holla Forums. Not children in high school.

Under that logic Zizek is more trash for not getting any kind of communist approval during his early radical years.

Also Angela Davis has several Bachelor's and a PhD, and is an Alma Mater. Which is again, more to say than Zizek.

Assumed your use of the word cunt meant you didn't like women. Oh well.

Plenty of young men can be well cunts.

Unironic post - where should I begin if I'm interested in feminism? Books and so on.

What the actual fuck.

Here we go again. You know I find Feminism to be very demeaning to women. And it unwittingly teaches women that they are inferior by advocating that they be compensated for only being female.

It's hard to say. There's plenty of strains of ideas that have lead us to liberal feminism.

Civil Rights era who worked in tandem with communists, and were self described communists. Assata, Angela, black women were prolific in this regard

A black woman having success in the time of the civil rights era was basically unheard of. She worked her ass off in labor, career, activism, and academics.

She is worthy of praise in this regard.

Your hatred of college does not mean people who have degrees aren't capable of labor. Fact is people who lived in East Germany for a time like her are comrades.

It's actually the exact opposite and based on the material circumstances of how culture operates in class. Especially poverty.

I really wouldn't advise talking about political subjects with only a high school education on them with someone more well read.

Oh but it's me who's judging people based on how well they passed the class tests.

You're not enough fun anymore. I'm gonna go play my PS4 then fuck my wife, possibly not in that order.

TRUMP 2020 Bitches!!!!!!!!

What does it matter to you? It's all the same trash?

Because you deem it so? Why? Also what is wrong with working towards several degrees?

She's the last person who would judge anyone based upon academic success and lived her life fighting her ass off for it.

She was a fugitive, she was impoverished, she lived with what she had to spread communist word.

Ultimately this judgement isn't based upon actual success in academics but actual success in class activism of any sort.

Good luck with fucking your basset hound.

I'm not the guy who posted that. I was just taken aback by the use of bourgeois education as a claim to superiority.

It's less that and the success of it in as a black woman in the 60's and 70's who was even a fugitive for a time and favorite of the FBI, while being a communist right after the red scare.

That's a lot of shit to put on your belt.

No they're just liberal fucking snobs who refuse to commit to any

unghhh I got my degree wheres my desk and salary?~??!?!!?!?

Calling a group of women hated by the FBI and in many cases fugitives, one of whom is still in protective asylum in Cuba, is hardly "liberal snobs".

Comparatively, you and I are the liberal snobs.

What does that have to do with anything you dumb bitch?

Also a funny addendum, during his governor of California before his presidency, Ronald Reagan fought Angela Davis his entire term to prevent her from speaking at colleges and being a professor.

He failed.

I didnt even read the thread I'm just generalizing modern university students

It means that judging people who only speak on academia is pointless because that's all Zizek has done. But we still like Zizek because that's an unreasonable position to take, don't we?

Buying into the "success" meme is not helping your or her case.

I like Zizek cuz cocaine and memes

this thread is already way off its rails righht I can shitpost

wrong

Labor is labor and labor is value. She could have sold out at any given time during the 60's and didn't. She criticized the federal government and the way federal prisons are organized, she criticized US foriegn policy, and domestic policy, in most regards. Especially racial given the time.

Honestly, it's not saying she's successful for the sake of it, it's just out of respect for her commitment in the face of overwhelming odds.

I judge them based on the fact they follow an idiotic ideology that's little more than glorified female identity politics masquerading as actual nuanced analysis.

Where's that one picture I have that tells of what women could be put in rest care for during late 19th century that included talking about labor and reading books.

If there's one thing you aren't taking it's a vapid and not nuanced analysis of what you've barely read but easily generalize.

So here's where we've gotten so far in this thread.

We've gone from class debate, randomly bringing up rape when nobody talked about it (cited by the US Air Force under the Reagan administration), to "it's not good".

This is why the first post I made was "No". You all have a post 2011 view of feminism nobody else on the internet before really had.

I dunno is it anything like this picture?

Men serving in war have all my respect, but it really depends on the war. I have more respect for soldiers of World War I than Vietnam. What men take away from their war time experience and what they tell us after ultimately describes the quality of soldier in battle.

Vietnam tells of an unprepared people fighting a war they had no investment in, while World War I tells the same. But World War I had far more people telling us about it?

Do you know why? Capitalism fucked up the Vets, and fucked them over, many became homeless.

And that's the point really. Capitalism fucks us over in different ways. And all of them need to be touched upon, including draft, and including military service. But you don't have the draft now.

D R A F T

The post was a response to>>1158936
That shit doesn't happen any more either.

You may as well argue that I cannot criticize Marxism-Leninism without reading all left communist literature

The post I was replying to implied women weren't fucked over at any time. Which is false. Capitalism, especially during the Industrial Revolution, commodified women in such a different way than in the past, and same as men.

It's better to read the basics than nothing at all. You're arguing you don't have to read on a subject before arguing in its ultimate failure. The way things are today exist for a variety of reasons, all of them you would need to read to fully understand how. How we got here. Experience also helps. So does wisdom.

A lot of basic ideas of feminism are fine.

The problem with it is it is too easily manipulated, it is used as a defacto state religion, recruits like a cult by preying on the frail, and marginalized, often abused women, and it's ingenious in that it makes the recruitment the ideology.

It's highly weaponized memetics/cognitive science. Seriously. I wouldn't be surprised if it was cooked up in some black ops lab, but it's self-perpetuating thereafter, and actually perpetuates what it opposes on the surface. It's not liberating or emancipating in anyway and holds its subjects captive by binding them into mental traps, layers of cognitive dissonance. It's powerfully anti-women and conservative in result, because it fosters a solipsistic narcissism that focuses on the "home front" while apologizing/ignoring war, chaos-mongering elsewhere and it's actually disgustingly anti-women in this regard. How the fuck these people can call Islam a feminist religion from the start is an example of how it robs people of their ability to think, which is NOT female liberation. It can and has been used as a justification for all kinds of monsterous, pro-porkie shit. It's mystical capitalism.

You literally can care about the exact same issues (domestic violence, etc) without being a Western """feminist""". When I've helped talk women out of it (literally deprogramming them), they invariably feel liberated from it kek.

Can you go five seconds without misrepresenting someone?
They said

For a majority of civilized time women have been fucked over in class, this is true.

But for some reason it's not enough to just say that, you have to exaggerate what the other guy said. My point is that everybody in the working class is fucked by class and acting like women get it especially bad is breathtakingly myopic, given how horrible life has been for billions of men.

Point to where I did that. Ever in this thread.

And the same is true of the majority of Western anti-racism, LGBT "activism". A lot of people aren't all in, but conform out of social pressure. You literally have to go underground with your views if you're in a petit-bourgeois peer group and you break from the meme consensus, it's fucking weird, which I think is driving a lot of the "alt-right" support, which ironically is having the exact opposite effect it is supposed to.

Case in point, it's about structure but they generally do not actually try and change the structure at its root cause (ultimately, capitalism and general exploitation and manipulation), they almost universally go after individuals. Their social engineering focuses on millionaire celebrities, garbage pop culture, and naked state repression/counterproductive thought suppression attempts. It's almost tailored to provoke a reaction, in that sense it's a Marxism of the bourgeois, weaponizing dialectics FROM ABOVE.

It's amazing when you look at how meaningless "le discourse" is.

I recall a (hopefully ironic) anfem poster saying: "Cis women will need a place after the revolution."

Utterly, and completely meaningless statement. It's mysticism, endless mantras designed for one purpose and one purpose only: total control.

The post that started this particular exchange
Anybody in the working class is associated with class struggle because the entire working class gets fucked, you knob.

"Women" is an abstraction that divides humans by gender. In saying that this division of humans is associated with class struggle, you are implying that the rest of the human population is not. For a category to be meaningfully defined it needs a boundary - an in and an out. Therefore the implication of this statement is that the outside of this boundary (which includes more than just men) does not have the same quality, which in this case is association with class.

Stop it.

If you are implying society is objective in this regard, you're basically a liberal.

No, you fucking imbecile. I was explaining the definition of the word because you've proven you were too dense to understand why saying "women are associate with class struggle" excludes men and children. Apparently you're even more dense than I had expected and don't understand what it looks like to break down the concept of category.

society is an abstraction too

I'm doing it so that other people will see how fucking batshit this tripfag is and they won't have to do this.

Anyone who lurks here for a day or two knows her, she's actually alright just is an unwitting (?) MKUltrafag.

It's nice in theory having a agent of the cult of totalitarian capitalism around to harangue for their ｐｕｒｅ ｉｄｅｏｌｏｇｙ but it's annoying because she gets the neet's here right in the feels. Filter and move on tho tbh.

Ngl I want anfem to choke me while she calls me a disgusting white cishet middle class male

Marxist Feminism is MKUltra. It's why it's existed since before MKUltra. It's all cointelpro bro

what did you mean by this?

You know that the most suspicious thing you can possibly do is mock the possibility that you're an agent, right?

It's a real catch-23 situation

What if I'm a spy? Or you? Go on all day.

Prickly is here. I'm arguing what people have argued for over a century now.

...

I'm actually J Edgar Hoover

that would explain alot actually

He hated Asians like I hate myself

Well you are a guy who likes to pretend to be a girl, and your main goal seems to be hampering left-wing movements.

Retards please go

What about a girl pretending to be a guy? Like all women do who post on image boards you've probably already talked to hundreds of times.

You don't have to mention you're gender at all on an image board if you don't want to. That's the beauty of it.

No, see, women are special so if you're not actively identifying yourself as a woman you're defaulting to identifying yourself as a man.

t. feminism

Nice patriarchal values there, s h i t l o r d

i dunno she seems to be a chick. most feminists are super insecure about gender so its all they end up talking about or thinking on.

For the autist literalists: Calling people an agent is allegorical. It's a humorous way to illustrate your effective position in the structure. Ironic paranoia is also a general countershilling measure. If an ideology or posting style is INDISTINGUISHABLE from that of a shill, why not call them a shill? It's that simple.

However, IdPol IS actually also an explicit plot, it's on paper.

How to detect "shills":
And so on

Heh, as IF the NSA spies on everyone. What are you, a CONSPIRACY THEORIST?

But I'm revolver ocelot, don't you see. I'm fooling you all.

XKEYSCORE

>h-hey guys, you know all those posts about alphabet soup agencies? yeah that's just jokes
It's really fucking cute how you think you don't stick out like a sore thumb. Bootlicker agents like you are incapable of blending in because you have the wrong mentality.

Lol. This is also a known shill tactic. Browse Holla Forums for a bit until you understand. Learn the difference between that and /x/. If you can't, you may just be an autist

Hey guys let's make sure the left stays pozzed and is the sole province of mentally ill control freaks! We wouldn't want to seem like conspiracytards or anything, that'd be embarrassing

Spoken like a true leftist.

Go back to reddit, faggot

How? By osmosis? Are you that mentally weak you can't help but get brainwashed just by reading something you disagree with?

You don't know what that word means, agent.

If a useful idiot is acting like a fed, it's a good idea to let them know. If a fed is acting like a fed it's a good idea to let everyone else know. Why would you oppose calling out this behavior?
Really activates my neocortex.

Hahaha, what the fuck? I've literally been telling people to do this, but explaining it's just a general ironic tactic you have to adopt to prevent infiltration on an open imageboard.

Your cunning strategum is to call me a fed instead.

Literally "no u". Unreal.

Go sew your cunt up.

who the fuck made that cancer

ITT: Being this much of a braindead, sexless, friendless trainwreck that you elevate white knighting a lesbian, admittedly severely depressed, ur-IdPol, white noise megaphone over sensible instructions on the class struggle

toppest kek

Anfem is god.

Holla Forums should become a matriarchy to be honest.

Ironic distance is a coping mechanism for the ravages of capitalism that reinforces bourgeois cultural norms and we should divest ourselves of it. Writing off the idea that alphabet agency subersion as a joke is the opposite of helpful. Those fucks are everywhere. It's not just a matter of acknowledging where we fit in the system and counterrevolutionary measures are not something to be ignored. As many leftists as possible need to be able to recognize feds (or people who are dumb enough to act just like feds) and do the opposite of what they say.

ITT: feminist and socdem take turns trying to be more idealist than one another. Socdem leaves, and Anons take the feminist on a ruse cruise causing her to spill spaghetti and ad hominem arguments everywhere. Serious Business slacktavists start accusing eachother of being CIA.

…who is white knighting anfem?

I'm not writing it off at all, I'm just saying, because it's impossible to tell, and shills can just call everyone else shills, tactical irony is the way to stop paranoia taking over

Okie dokie

Go get your testicles crunched by stilettos tbh

Once again Nazbols are keeping it 100 fam

The irl mad Stalinposter who tried to accuse me of being a shill for outlining a healthy counter-shilling immune system

But what they can't do is actually help so they can be put in a position to reveal themselves.

The feds they send to join a community in person or over the internet are the greenest dumb kids that they have. They're only a threat to people vulnerable to tone policing and who are suggestible, but when they support COINTELPRO shit like idpol they can make those measures more effective. That and feds are the opposite of the "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." Individual feds are pretty much worthless but together they're an actual obstacle. Failing to spot one fed isn't a big deal by itself but it adds up.

And finally
Irony is a form of alienation and should be avoided outside of art or rhetoric when making a point.

I mean, seriously, just read a book and take a look around you. The agressive and exploitive nature of capitalism is caused by the patriarchal foundation of this society. Men have evolved conditioned to this violent and primitive nature. Just tell me how many porky women you have seen and compare it to the number of capitalist pigs that are male. It's a huge difference.

True socialism can only be reached through women supremacy or at least a certain limitation to male power until they are fit to properly rule anything. Otherwise it will turn into another bloody dictatorship.

Just give up dude you're a mess.

I'm arguing that irony is a tool. Even if it is a product of alienation, it's unavoidable on imageboards. I disagree with your stock Marxian self-help view on it. Satirical dissimilation is performative, and enhances the self-criticality that is essential for avoiding the ravages of ideology that are almost entirely inescapable under capitalism. If the last century taught us anything, it's that reading books and getting the Correct Opinions is simply not enough, and rigid ideology is a cancer that neuters the left.

You didn't even refute my point. Try harder.

Let me put it this way. Everyone here is smarter than dumbass conspiracy theories right? Everyone who isn't an autist is capable of reading between the lines? As you say, feds are green retards, but what I'm saying is, through a combination of social engineering and capitalism manufacturing ideology structurally, people are ""agents"" of it, in that they represent the exact role of an actual disinfo agent, they are interchangeable. So in a sense it DOESN'T MATTER if they are shills or not. Recognizing basic bitch first week feds is 101. I'm onto the next level shit. Conspiracy theories are ALLEGORIES. They condense complex ideas about social structure that operates outside of our full understanding by definition, into a story that is more human-friendly. It's cryptography, and it's the only way the left will win, otherwise, because they always come from a position of weakness versus the strength of the conservative forces and their totalizing apparatus, they will always have the upper hand in infiltration. This level of paranoia is what destroyed the Bolshevik revolution, and many others. The "solution" Stalin found was……. suboptimal, and will cause the ultimate unintended consequences every time. You can't infiltrate a bunch of absolute retards discussing moronic conspiracy theories. It's the pissing in the ocean of piss theory. Look at Holla Forumss memetic warfare, learn from it, adapt, or hand them the countercultural narrative, basically that simple.

No, it's a process of alienation. To be ironic is to distance yourself from the thing about which you're being ironic.

That kind of behavior is healthy in moderation at best and only in contexts when doing so does not cause other problems. Implying that US intelligence infiltrating leftist groups is just a joke causes other problems. Don't forget where we started with this.

I don't see this as a lesson of the 20th century, just common sense. This being common sense does not, however, serve as a rebuttal for my position (which incidentally is not pulled from Marx, but is a conclusion I reached independently). Theory is a wealth of valuable content at its best.

It's not worse than ignoring theory, which you are tacitly advocating you fed. The real cancer of the left from where I'm sitting is getting caught up in nonsense that has nothing to do with theory or praxis and diverting attention away from class struggle.

I'm not saying it's just a joke. I'm saying the best and brightest can spot real shills a mile off. The babies who need spoon feeding have literally everywhere else on the internet. "Irony is unhealthy" is a psychological opinion, and one I disagree with. It may be unhealthy for some, if you can't handle it, opt out. There's always reddit. But that doesn't mean it can't be weaponized by a shitposting vanguard. If you're going to shitpost on Holla Forums then do it right, if you need an earnest torture chamber, go elsewhere.

How am I advocating ignoring theory? My ideas directly come from theory. I've just gone Full Zizek. Deal with it.

torture chamber=hug-box

Also I've been exposing posturing theorytards, like the guy who mistook Hegel for Stirner while speaking authoritatively out of his spinchter. So don't lecture me about theory, u basic bitch.

Using conspiracy theory as a pejorative is such a bad start that I don't feel like I'm losing anything by telling you that, fed.

Of course it matters. People are capable of realizing they were wrong, but if it's literally their fucking job they're not going to change anything. This is basic shit that would be obvious if you understood materialism.

This is a description of superstition.

Not being infiltrated is lower on my list of priorities than not being a bunch of retards who literally have no idea what we're doing.

Holla Forums hasn't accomplished shit. They're useful idiots for the ruling class, and their belief that they are some kind of meme masters is par for the course when it comes to borderline schizophrenics.

You know, I did actually have my doubts that you were a fed but holy fuck dude. If you're not a fed you're an incredible mimic.

Reddit.

Your point was that we should turn into gibbering idiots who indulge in magical thinking. I got it. It's just retarded.

No but you are upholding the notion that conspiracy theories are generally stupid, which is a longstanding porky narrative used to divert attention from dissent.

You seem upset :^)

Obama's brother is an e-celeb at best. Campaign speeches are pretty irrelevant - that's the kind of shit liberals assign serious weight. Pepe the frog is a lot bigger than Holla Forums and widespread exposure is just the national equivalent of HACKERS ON STEROIDS. Holla Forums is taking advantage of prevailing trends to feel more important than they are, and the media is taking advantage of spoopy internet nazis to drum up views. You are entirely inside the spectacle.

Does the field manual tell you this is how you checkmate here?

Lol. I don't know why I bother debating with low Autism Level faggots. Your posts give me eye cancer dude. I feel like I'll go on trolling your delicate little mind into oblivion, all the precious little vermin like you are stomped out, until only the elite vanguard remain. And you can't stop me. :^)

One final point before you guys go back to your Anfem-centric circle jerk.

Hahahaha. "Read a book" indeed.

If Anfems let me have sexual, lifestyle and entertainment freedom without telling me everything is excellent I'll be fine with Anfeminism.