Deeply flawed games that are still fun

That's exactly what's happening in FO4. It's a game whose gameplay encourages you to explore and do whatever you want but its narrative encourages you to make a beeline through the main quest to get your son back. One of the earliest things the game introduces you to is the settlement system, so just as you escape into this terrible post apocalyptic world on a quest to find your kidnapped son the player is probably going to spend a couple in game days cleaning up sanctuary and building a cool fortress. You'll continuously come across sidequests and areas that encourage you to get distracted and interact with them instead of looking for your son like your character actually would be doing if he were in control.

If you were on a time limit to find your son and the player knew that then the dissonance would be pretty heavily alleviated. Dead Rising did this just fine, in order to encourage you to actually investigate what's going on in the mall rather than mindlessly fucking around and being out of character it gives you a time limit. You still might fuck around sometimes, but you'll feel like you're wasting your time and should get back to investigating or rescuing survivors. But there isn't a time limit in FO4 because this is a consequence-free Bethesda game where you can do whatever you want whenever you want no matter how much it clashes with the narrative they try to shove down your throat.

When I posted about Fallout 4 I expected autistics to get mad at me for saying the game can be fun in some respects, not Bethesdafags like you that excuse its most insultingly terrible qualities. You are the videogame equivalent of an illiterate, please kill yourself or at least leave this board alone.

is this an unpopular opinions thread

obviously not; it's missing the puffin

Story is only relevant insofar as it affects gameplay. But this is only relevant if there is gameplay, so not in Fallout.

I don't understand, do you mean to say that there is no gameplay in Shillout 4? And story is perfectly fine if it compliments the gameplay and if it doesn't then it has no reason to exist. In vanilla FO4 the story will actively hurt the gameplay since it'll slow you down and make you listen to shitty dialogue or prevents certain NPCs from being killed because they're "essential" to the story.

You're acting as if Fallout 4 has any "goals" for you to be motivated about.

other then that its alrite. but the new one is better obvsly

I mean, Skylines isn't that good but come on OP, you can't be this fucking dumb.

if you want to call those story and gameplay I geuss you can

The one post bandit strikes again.

Is Skylines the best city building game of 2015 - 2016 or is there something better?

(checked)
For now it's the best recent game, but SimCity 4 still has an active modding community.

We already have 2 other threads like this.

When it comes to city builder games, you basically have four choices.

SimCity4 - Old as dirt. Sometimes doesn't run very well on newer computers (aka computers with more than two cores) unless you're careful. The traffic system is pretty broken, but easily fixed with mods. You can easily build a city that fills the whole map size, and you can build multiple seamless cities as a region. Is in a isometric (false 3D) perspective, that allows four rotations; it doesn't have curved roads as it's based on a rigid grid system.

CitiesXL: On the older side, runs like shit on almost every computer once the city reaches a certain size, so the huge maps are basically unusable. Has an oddly forced "social" caste system that is a large factor in what defines how zones develop. Is 3D and has curved roads.

SimCity2013: Newer so won't run on older computers. Has a great number of issues with traffic, that were partially patched out. The map sizes are tiny, and there isn't much that can be done because forcing them to be larger causes major issues. Is 3D and has curved roads.

Cities Skylines: Very new, runs well on newer computers but your toaster is doomed. As mentioned, focuses almost entirely on the management of traffic, to the point where other city simulations are almost superfluous. Has large map sizes, but traffic will always become a serious issue, and there have been errors involved because the number of agents (basically the cars on the road) are capped off. Is 3D and has curved roads.

Attached is a simple demonstration as to why the city builders with freeform roads, and with all buildings snapping to the roads, are inferior to the grid-based system of SC4. With mods, it's possible to force jagged SC4 roads to appear smoothly curved, which patches the only concern over aesthetics. The last thing you want in the tiny maps of SC2013 is to be wasting space, but if you have curved roads, large pieces of the map will be unbuildable because the game sees there isn't enough room to form a lot alongside the road. You're either forced to accept this, or build in perfect grids so there is enough room for the lots to be crammed in right next to each other.

Ironically, this means more of these "modern" city builders end up with cities that are full grids, a limitation you don't have in SC4, where every space alongside a road is buildable because there are always full squares alongside it, and a consistent number of spaces between adjacent roads. You can break the grid as hard as you want, and never end up with useless empty areas.

Stop shilling this shit.

I agree with your point about the grid, but I think it can be resolved with a much stronger and easier to use "snap-to-grid" functionality.

Wow, is this post all typed up just for me?
Thank you.

The real problem is that, unlike in real life, these games don't have variable-shaped lots, so they leave space between the fixed-square lots, anywhere the roads aren't actually square. What's going on is that it's essentially creating a grid system alongside sections of road, without any overreaching grid system that governs everything. Instead of one big grid system, you have a bunch of little grids that don't work well together.

Industry and trade.

I bought this for PS4 oh shit and I love just dressing up my settlements, scavenging and never doing the story.

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Is this bait?

I bought SimCity 2013 so I don't know why Fallout 4 would suddenly surprise you.

A lot of people fell for Sim City since many hadn't heard about the always online thing before release and its severe gameplay issues weren't pointed out in the reviews. Fallout 4 on the other hand was guaranteed to be a shit game just because it was Bethesda making it and it was well known that it would have a voiced protagonist.

And supporting consoles is iredeemable, especially the current ones.

I like it though.

Then don't care what other people say and shut up

I was just answering him.
I'm on topic. You're not.

Nice, a dubs thread

Is this some multiplayer thing?

It tells you what you'll make for shipping those things. It's determined by what is currently being exported by other players.

I hereby award you for being the Most Retarded Faggot of the Evening.

Thanks.

So it's some multiplayer thing.

My post did imply that.

Glad we cleared that up.

Dubs

Well done.

It's still there when you play offline. It just doesnt change. And even when it's static the industry and trade is done better.

Yes, but what is the industry and trade actually FOR, beyond the multiplayer applications? I suppose you could trade resources between cities in the same region, but that's not too terribly different from trading power or water or (passively) demand in SC4. Given how absurdly huge the specialty industry buildings are compared to the map size, it pretty much pushes aside any semblance of a "city builder", when your "city" is a mining/smelting/manufacturing area and then five houses crammed off to the side of the map.

Upgrading your industry from shitty resource extraction to manufacturing. Making the big bucks.
It's different enough to make it more fun.

Well, I can't argue against subjective tastes. From what I saw, it seemed formulaic and simplistic. Just keep adding more modules to the base building, whenever you get enough money, until your production is maxed out; the only variation is if you don't have enough space along the road (and you can't delete the road to edit it because it'll also demolish all the buildings along it, whoops).

I'd never be able to enjoy playing it because all you're doing is making caricature dollhouse cities. I like realistic sprawl.

More complex than Sim City 4. People only play Sim City 4 to make pretty cities. They don't even play it like a game. It feels completely static and lifeless, like nothing matters. Not so in Sim City 2013.
You're making a machine with SimCity 2013. One that can break very easily.
I like gameplay that matters

You're using the phrase wrong you retard. You're saying they failed to get you properly invested in rescuing your son. That's not ludonarrative dissonance, it's just shitty writing.

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You can like whatever you want, just not here, ledditor.

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SimCity has never been a "game". It's best described as a "software toy", because any goals you set are your own, and there is no real winning condition (though there are varying ways to "lose"). Adding a few industries and multiplayer support doesn't make it any more of a game.

Either way, saying it's more complex than SC4 is objectively wrong. They added in some new things, sure, but dumbed down literally everything else. Zone density is automatically tied to road size, taxes aren't down to 0.1% control anymore (and the effect on the city is literally always the same flat effect: it only affects "happiness", regardless of other factors so you don't even need to think about how if affects demand when weighted with other factors), and you can't terraform anything. I could go on forever, baby.

Also, if you wanted to build a "machine" with a much more complex tree of resource gathering and processing than SC2013's baby one, there are some options out there that can provide a bit more of a challenge.

Yes I can.

It's a game.
That makes sense though.
Unimportant.
Not true. Look at traffic impact for example.
I never did that. I'm interested in the machinery, not making screenshots.
Can't argue with that. Factorio is one of my favorite games.

Just because you think hand-holding makes sense, you think more control over your game is unimportant, or you don't recognize that traffic is directly affected by population which is tied to tax rate, and you don't feel like using a feature, doesn't matter; the point is that SC4 is still more complex in every single feature that both games share.

I'm just having an extremely hard time figuring out how someone who plays Factorio can possibly enjoy EAs broken cashgrab to the casual mobile gamer, especially compared to a city builder where there are dozens of complex interacting factors to consider that determine how things develop. Like hearing that a nuclear physicist really, really enjoys the challenge of playing with an Easy Bake Oven.

You can lose if your rating drops too low, what

This game is the literal incarnation of "super flawed but still a fuck ton of fun"

Yeah but; if I want a row of trailers to sprawl by a nice three-lane avenue, I should be able to build that.

Ludonarrative dissonance is what happens any time the player feels differently about something than the protagonist and will act in a way that the protagonist wouldn't. A dad who just lost his son would not spend several days building a settlement or get sidetracked by every sidequest he comes across.

Shit, I've been looking for this image for like a year.
Thanks user

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It would have been better if that whole scene where the baby is stolen didn't happen. You just pop out of cryosleep to find your partner dead and your baby gone, and so of course assume it's also been killed. So you go about doing shit for a while, until you reach a point in the game (like maybe getting to Diamond City) before you start getting dropped tidbits about babies getting stolen or whatever. At no point are you ever fully convinced that your child is actually alive, until the very end of the game. There could be all sorts of ways that things could go to make you feel closer to the lost child as the game progresses, so you have a reason to care.

Beautiful.

Or it would have been better if they did a FNV style narrative that's actually about the factions and the setting which would make use of the open world instead of some poorly written mess that nobody liked with a fundamentally broken premise and voiced protagonist.

I remember enjoying it

Skyrim is garbage. Portal 2 was a 6/10 tbh.

guaranteed_replies.jpg

It's the best-selling open-world RPG-ish game ever made. It doesn't matter how casualized and simplified it was compared to the predecessors (most of which is just maudlin nostalgia for the games you grew up on), it's not remotely garbage; it still does what it does better than anything. No Man's Sky is garbage.

Nice, epic, I like it fam.

That would be Pokemon, actually. Try again

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Learn to sage!

It takes a pretty special kind of talent to be this stupid. I'm talking "very stupid parents" and "born retarded" then "dropped on head as a baby" then "developed meningitis" then "crashed his skateboard all the time without wearing a helmet" then "was an amateur boxer and took a lot of knockouts" then "got in a car accident and incurred severe head trauma" levels of stupid.