When will you all realize it's too unrealistic to expect every worker to be able to read marx...

Maybe you wouldn't be such a stupid piece of misbegotten dog shit if you spent less time being fucking retarded and more time reading books.

Mostly just too lazy to spoonfeed people. I try to post easily digestible videos but honestly it's not worth it to put that much effort into explaining the nuances of socialist thought to a complete stranger who might not even read it. IRL is a different story.

We need to genetically manipulate the population to be intelligent enough to understand class politics.

I don't expect that. I don't believe that everyone needs to know everything about communism, but I do believe that elitism is a serious problem with the left, and that's what this post was about.

It's not terribly difficult to explain your position to someone IRL, because you have some guarantee that they're listening in good faith. You don't need overly complex analysis of the current system to convince people of your position, just fundamental ideas like localized face to face democracy and community oriented politics that help the people, not private individuals that live far away. We expect people on here though, considering this is supposed to be some kind of space for "those in the know", i.e. people already acquainted with socialist ideas to have some independent drive to read and further their own studies.

You need to lay down the tranny porn and take 1 hour of your day to read

in my defense, your dad is a sweet piece of ass

I read tons of tranny porn and I still find time to read theory.

Reading MARX is difficult. Not reading in general. It's tough to read his works, due to how they are written.

How about replacing tranny porn soudtrack with Kapital 101?

What did he mean by this.??

I mean
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They know this. As such a vanguard will be required. The people here and other lefty hubs see themselves as this vanguard, though most will never admit it.

Neva tried. How are they written that makes them hard to read? Is is a matter of translation or are parts of it overcomplicated?

COINTELPRO

I'm not even joking. Read the declassified papers. They successfully tried to cripple the workers revolution by turning leftism into some kind of a "intellectual" circlejerk by useful idiots who will rightfully be purged on the day of revolution who haven't worked a day in their lives and aren't even apart of the proletariat class. Their greatest contribution to the revolution is screaming and snobbishly telling proles to be "well read" even though a true prole neither has the money nor time for such a pursuit when they're literally working just to survive on their meager wages that porky throws them from the pocket change and lint he gathered from the pocket of his tens of thousand euro suit thereby scaring or pissing them off. Lenin was right about the "intelligentsia" being "shit". I swear to god retards like Noam "tenure and high salary while never working as a true prole ever" COINTELPROski are shills trying to destroy the worker's revolution on purpose. Your books won't save you from the worker's bullets piecing your bodies, the sickle that slices your proletariat-wannabe bourgeois throats, and the worker's hammer that smashes your skull and brains.

...

And the vanguard is almost always the first to be killed by Commissar Jamal and Commissar Cletus because actual proles despise you. Funny how that works out.

"The intelligentsia are not the brains of a nation, they are the feces of a nation." -Lenin

Don't kid yourselves. You are all merely the useful idiots (with the exception of myself), delusional bourgeois children who will be the first to die as true workers like myself drag you by your college educated collar to the gulag and pulls the trigger just as transpired in the past. Praise comrade Stalin, Mao, Che, and most of all Pol Pot. They knew exactly how to clean the feces like you and send it to the sewers.

Che was a college educated doctor. Lenin was also highly educated. This dichotomy you've got built up between academics and workers is ridiculous.

The truth is we can't appeal to the common worker at all.

This. The proletariat isn't a revolutionary class. This failed assumption among other by Marx is what lead to Bookchin's move towards libertarian socialism.

t. people that don't leave their basements

I'm feeling a bit sick now.

...

Not a rebuttal.

no u

Literally the transhumanists "solution" to everything ever.

Because everyone knows that Leninists are known for their fantastic humor.

oh yeah better give all the power to those guys, they know theory so they can't fo anythinh wrong, right?

wtf im a vanguardist now

This and it's so funny how smart they think they are. It's just SO FRUSTRATING that the irrational fallen, world doesn't comply to their smoothly functioning mental model of it, so everyone else must be crazy.

Oh, come on, those guys are ripe for theory.
Even at my shit-ass retail job I still managed to wrangle my co-workers into understanding that the brass makes far more money than we do despite the fact that they depend on us to actually sell their sweatshop shoes. All they ever did was call us and tell us our numbers weren't good enough, regardless of how many people had come in that day.
Your average working class schmuck is nearly guaranteed to hate his boss, and if not them, then their boss, and so on and so on. Use that, exploit it, and press your advantage.
Giving up on them makes you destined for failure.

What we need is a Marxist Carl Sagan. A popular economist to Sagan's popular scientist.

This is theory how? What's the leap from boss and banks are kiking you, to lets hand the means of production to these cold blooded freaks instead of the workers it;s socialism cos they can excrete 500,000 word text walls explaining why and they'll kill you if you ask questions cos [more essays of endless confabulation and rationalization]

concern trolling

…. try posting that one more time, except be coherent.

"Theory" is a vast corpus of technical text largely justifying an elaborate apparatus while sweeping history and reason under the rug, and that is not encompassed in the elemental realization that you're getting screwed by the system in some way.

Marxism is concern trolling.

Privately: "We have no morals haha the proles are so fucking dumb we can literally tell them anything."
To the workers: "Hey wtf dude don't you think it's morally wrong that you're getting expropriated in the ass like this"

Morals don't real, user.

Okay, then it's not theory. Cool.

Explain why then did Lenin go to Switzerland and study Hegel's writings on the eve on WW1 and the crisis of the 2nd International then?

There people need to be directed by those who truly understand what is in their best interests. This is why Utopian socialists always believed that the working class needed a guiding intelligentsia. This is why M-Ls believe in their vanguard and democratic centralism. This is why trade unions are hierarchical in nature.

We are their brains and their soul. We are the priests who will guide them into the workers paradise. Foot-soldier does not need to know the deeper strategy of the war, nor could he fully understand it. All he needs is a proper motivation, a target for his faith.

I'll never get tired of baiting you into frankly admitting psychopathy :^)

Okay. That still doesn't make them real.

Woah, I didn't know this board let you repost the same image in a thread.
Ya learn something new every day.

Fuck off Casper, you're just a Boltzmann brain arbitrary fluctuation of the quantum vacuum in an infinite universe observing briefly an arbitrary scene, and will promptly vanish from existence.

Prove me wrong

Pro tip: pic related

pic*

You're right, I can't, because I am

fuck off, moron, and quit regurgitating opinions given to you by the jones nexus

...

if you're assuming i'm dishonest i have no reason to try to communicate with you

I'm deprogramming all the proles who fell for your "intellectual" memes, and you can't stop me. I'm a one man class war. Lenincucks on suicide watch.

hmm

The foundation of your philosophy is the presumption of dishonesty / delusion on behalf of any opponent. You literally just accused me of being a Jonesian parrot. I don't fit into your paradigm so I must be killed/silenced/imprisoned. Better kill me because my samizdat's gonna be fire, this is just a warm up

I only tell people to read a book who basically want me to write the book to explain it to them. If you have that much time to sit and wait for my response, you can pick up a book.

i said "jones nexus", you may not have gotten it from jones himself but you no doubt got it from people like him or people under the influence of people like him

It's impossible for you to conceive of workers are actually capable of thinking for themselves. Remarkable.

nobody develops their views in a vacuum, everybody is influenced by some preexisting body of thought

If this is trivially true why mention it? Tarnish by association is an old trick. Won't work. For all i know you got your views from a Rothschild himself. See? Retarded.

you attributed to communists a dishonest and conspiratorial mentality which has nothing to do with fact. even looking at now declassified internal documents of the stalinist regime, you will see that they sincerely believed in what they were doing. they never took the cynical approach you attributed to them, namely: "We have no morals haha the proles are so fucking dumb we can literally tell them anything." this caricature of communism is the kind promoted by jones, the john birch society and others in that conspiracy-minded conservative nexus. therefore it is not a stretch to suppose that you have gotten this idea from people within this nexus, rather than from an independent study of historical communists, their theories and their internal communications.

I can't believe nobody has tried to do this.

fucking engels did m8

Ok this is much better. I didn't mean that in a literal sense. It functions at the ideological level personally, and structurally when it comes to society, both the liberal society they came from and the communist society they attempted to build, rather than an explicit conspiracy. I do n ot doubt the sincerity of most of the original revolutionaries but I also do not doubt it is the perfect conditions for opportunistic psychopaths to emerge within them, like Stalin, who promptly murdered them all, and anyone who wasn't a sycophant. Clearer?

Cool theory, but this just means all the right has to do to disable a good idea is tactically promote it. In this way elements on the left who think like this, and the right, can act in an implicit collaboration, which is what you'd like to say about me, I imagine. Too bad I figured out the inverse applies.

build charisma
its true that short FAQs and TLDRs are needed
When someone denies people below the Autism Level average exist then that someone is patronizing and insulting those of lesser intelligence. Being less smart doesn't make you a bad person.

if you like reading, you should read many sources

Also this. Perspectivalism ftw

communist revolutions had a tendency to emerge not in liberal societies at all. russia as of the bolshevik revolution was a very illiberal society, both politically and economically. the same applies to china, which is why both the bolshevik and maoist revolutions relied on the peasantry rather than the industrial proletariat. so it is inaccurate to say that historical communists come from "liberal society".

as for the opportunism of stalin, he may have been an opportunist but he certainly did not regard himself as such. again, internal communications demonstrate that he believed the well-being of the russian proletariat was inseparably bound with the well-being of the party bureaucracy. you can disagree with that, but it is still far from the caricature of cackling conspirators which you initially presented and which, again, is promoted by conspiracy-minded conservatives.

this discussion only began because i took issue with your caricature of historical communists. if you "didn't mean that", then i'm not too interested in where you got it from.

They emerged from a liberal culture of European Enlightenment free debate and discussion within the university sphere at least, that may have been isolated to tiny islands of the petit-bourgeois intellectual elite in countries such as Russia, and even suppressed by the regime, but nevertheless was the precondition for Hegel, Marx, Lenin, and so on. This background or context remains even under conditions of anti-intellectual repression and a generally fuedal, agrarian country. There is no Red Khmers without the Parisian scene for example. To me this is an essential conflict in Marxism, it protests the entire bourgeois culture and thought as somehow illegitimate yet is irreducibly a product of it.

My propaganda was meant to be more instructive on more modern Western Leninists than historical communists, and I was illustrating another tension in Marxist thought, its amoralism and advocacy of class perspective, while being fundamentally elitist, deploying ideology specifically constructed for proletarian consumption, reducing it to a product of tactics rather than reason, in order to work the proletariat in a way I find fundamentally dishonest.

robotics is currently trying to copy biology, rightly so
biology is greatly informed by study of robotics and history of humanity

dont do this

you are on the right track comrade

It's written for 19th century German intellectuals, not modern Americans. The language and analogies are awkward to modern eyes, and take actual effort to understand. It's the sort of book that has to be studied, not just read.
Since I just got off shilling this book elsewhere, I might as well recommenced Debt: The First 5000 Years by David Graeber. It's engaging and relatively easy to read, written in 2011 with modern audiences in mind. It's not explicitly socialist, though the writer is a wobbly and was one of the founding members of Occupy Wall Street, from before it went to shit. It's an analysis of the role and philosophy of debt in human society from an anthropological perspective. However, it contains within it an insightful critique of capitalism. In short, it utterly destroys with the weight of 5,000 years of history, the philosophical basis of liberal economic theory. It expertly wipes away false assumptions so deeply entrenched in modern culture, so internalized in modern consciousness that you didn't even know you had them. To put it another way, it'll blow your mind, man.

Also, to anyone else here: 'Debt: The first 5,000 Years'' is accessible and entertaining enough to be read casually, which makes it great for engaging liberal and SocDem friends/family, especially those disillusioned with modern finance or struggling with Student Loans.

/shill

And regardless of the circumstances around the historical revolutions, and whatever merits you may attribute to them, whatever blame you can apportion elsewhere, this mode of thought is anachronistic. The historical circumstances have shifted, we have the benefit of hindsight. Capitalism is a perpetual revolution. Marx is anti-Marxist, welcome to the mutlidimensional discourse, irony is the only way we'll beat the fascist machines.

t. Graeber

But good book.

Sometimes people are class conscious by simply being exploited.

What does this mean?

Not the guy you're arguing with, but are you suggesting that just vanguardist thought is elitist, or all of broader Marxism?

Also, it doesn't seem contradictory to me that if you take a muh privileged portion of society and give them free reign to study and debate, some of them will realize the fundamental injustice of the system that places them above others.

Honestly don't know how the 'muh' got in there

Holla Forums uses word filters. Among other things, it turns miso-gynist into woman hater, to teach people the difference between sexism and actual hatred, triple parenthesis into 🍀🍀🍀shamrocks🍀🍀🍀 to educate Holla Forumslacks on the Hibernian Conspiracy (Irish infiltrating our government and media at every level, gas the micks, class war now!), and turns privi-lege into a muh privilege to trigger tumblr tier feminists who've abused the word until it's lost all meaning.

Thanks, captain Holla Forums!

That's why in the old days politics was conducted through pamphleteering, that's what we should still be doing now.