Why do liberation/militant groups never take the form we western leftists want them to...

The groups left over from the Cold War, FARC, Naxals, and all of those

Capitalism, ofc.

More like a move to even more authoritarian forms of capitalism. Duterte, Trump, Orban, China.

national liberation comes first fam

a lot of people here are from the UK or America and will find it difficult to understand this

Don't forget Modi, Putin, Le Pen (possibly), Nazis in Ukraine, jihadis, etc.

For every action there is a reaction

yesterday I was talking to someone about hezoballah and they told me that they would support them if only they weren't anti-semetic.

And that got me thinking, could hezbollah even be successful as it is if it wasn't anti-semeitc? If they made the point to reiterate they didn't hate jews, only the state of isreal, could they drum up the same passion and support among the levantine arabs?

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Why? It's not like Hezbollah is anything close to Marxist. They're just Iran proxies following orders from Tehran (although them fighting Israeli occupation in Lebanon is an objectively good thing).

gringuy.jpg

no because most Levantine Arabs are Sunni and thus wouldn't support them out of sectarian spite

But Hezbollah is so far superior to any Sunni fighting force and have done more damage to Israel than Hamas could ever dream of so this stance is retarded

This. Also, Hezbollah and Hamas despise each other now due to the Syrian conflict. Hamas is supporting the FSA while Hezbollah loves their granddaddy Assad.

Relations are strained but I don't think Hamas ever declared Hezbollah a terrorist organization in accordance with the other GCC states. That would be the nail in the coffin for relations with Iran. I don't see how Hamas can survive without Iranian support.

There is no reason to care about the Middle East at all from a left PoV. An actual socialist revolution is not going to sweep across the Middle East. They are not going to stop killing each other over religious and territorial squabbles any time soon, and even if they did, more powerful countries would find a way to get them to start again in order to maintain control of oil in the region.

Also realize any left-wing movement in the MENA region will ultimately go along sectarian religious or nationalist lines. Even if we assume Hezbollah is left-wing it's really just a Shia Lebanese nationalist group. Same thing with the Kurds (of course) and the other various remaining leftist parties in the region.

The days of Ba'athism are long gone. Assad is the last of an almost extinct breed and it's doubtful you'd see a Pan-Arab revival anytime soon.

FARC is dogshit. They haven't actually believed in anything but drugrunning for decades

Assad is a neoliberal tyrant and I'm lmao'ing at your life if you think Iraqi or Syrian baathism is left wing in any meaningful way beyond """"anti imperialism"""".

I'm actually quite anti-Ba'athist given the ideology is nothing more than Arab fascism, really no different from Zionism in-practice.

Most "anti-imperialist" movements are just bourgeois nationalism disguised as socialism. There's no shortage of turd worldists and tankies who think Duterte is God's gift to East Asia.

Read your post as you longing for the days of an apparently left wing Baathism.

why don't you feel the PYD are sufficiently left wing?

I never said they weren't left-wing. I'm speaking more to internationalism and the ability to overcome sectarianism on religious or racial grounds, which these Kurdish parties really haven't.

Rojava has multiethnic representation at every level of government. How are they failing to unite across ethnic and religious lines?

Nothing will ever be exactly as you want. Not the revolution. Not the results of the revolution. Nothing. Be prepared to get dirty. Be prepared to watch your ideas fail. Some of them will succeed, a lot of them will fail, or they will succeed in ways you didn't predict, leading to problems you didn't predict or victories you hadn't hoped for. That's the nature of the world.

They are Kurdish nationalists first and foremost, and it's highly doubtful their model will spread throughout the MENA.

Listen to Muslims when it comes to the Kurds.
reddit.com/r/islam/comments/2i55b6/why_do_muslims_care_more_about_palestinians_than/

what do you aim to communicate by linking that?

Interesting but I don't see how that's relevant to the attitudes of the people living in Rojava or the way it's structured.

That no one else in the Middle East is giving the Kurds and their efforts any support, which proves my point about any left-wing movements in the ME being unable to overcome these kinds of ethnic and religious sectarianisms. It's not like you're seeing the Palestinians stand in solidarity with Rojava, all while Israel is providing Kurdish factions with quite a few guns.

What was the point of linking that. Most of the comments weren't negative towards the kurds at all.

I don't see why you want to downplay Rojava because it's not igniting a Middle East wide revolution. You should be less concerned with what American Muslims on reddit think of Rojava and more concerned with the actual people living there, whatever ethnicity or sect they may belong to.

It showcases the attitudes of general Muslims towards the Kurds and how completely nuanced they are.

I'm guessing they come from countries like the USA, UK, Qatar etc where communism is basically condemned.

>Anyone who has seen the effects of communism on our Muslim populations that used to be part of the USSR, you can see they have lost all semblance of the religion. Only recently has their been a concerted effort to come back to the deen, but it is still very looked down upon in places like Uzbekistan and Kazakhastan, so much so that they have closed down Qur'an schools and imprisoned religious people. Unfortunately, you see the same things happening in Kurdistan where the entire area is becoming more and more secular, and less and less religious.
Based.

Who in the Muslim World wants communism aside from those few leftover parties like the PFLP? It's not like communist factions (aside from the Kurds of course) are fighting in Syria and Iraq. The Houthis aren't communists and neither is Hezbollah, nor did communists play a significant role in the Arab Spring in general.

okay

that sub is full of super dogmatic and conservative western Muslims who hate Kurds for their secular and left wing tendencies and also because they attack Papa Roach Erdogan (who they love for his Islamisation of Turkey).

There's also a ton of MRAs on that sub. But they're not called "MRAs" because that would be cultural imperialism.

Yeah they seemed to just be knee jerk against communism.
Probably Americans, most of the Muslims who emigrated there were middle eastern doctors engineers etc during the 60s/70s brain drain, so might fear losing their wealth and privelege under communism.
Muslims in Muslim democracies like Indonesia and Pakistan have supported pretty far left wing parties in the past, but weren't allowed to flourish.

Isn't it obvious Muslims care more about Non-Muslims dominating Muslims more than they do Muslims vs Muslims and even then the Kurds will be overlooked in favour of Shia vs Sunni as it's Turks on Kurds are deemed Sunni on Sunni (many Muslims go as far as saying they are apostates).

It isn't just the Palestinians who get more attention than the Kurds, Muslims in general get butthurt about Kashmir, Thailand and Bosnia. Have you not noticed that they don't give a shit about Tibet, Tamils or any other persecuted minority because they are motivated by religious rather than material concerns.

Indonesia and Pakistan are not Arab countries. Indonesians tend to be very liberal Muslims and Pakistan is still extremely tribal in some areas.

big ups for mentioning this. Done a lot of reading about the Tamils in Sri Lanka and the civil war. Shit is horrific and really shatters the cliched image of "you never see the Buddhists being violent".

there was a paki on Holla Forums few weeks ago
according to him the only tribal fucks in pakistan are the Afghani near the border, and the tribal leaders are getting btfo by the government

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Pakistan#History_of_elections_in_Pakistan

If the electoral history of Pakistan is anything to go by, they've never had any leftists, not even a damn socialist party or politically correct sounding "Labour" party.

I've talked to some Afghans (refugees nonetheless) and they all shared a common hatred of Pakistan. Apparently they give a lot of support and funds to the Taliban.

anyway Afghanistan is so intensely tribal that it makes you realise how arbitrary borders are. There's loads of "Afghans" who are probably not aware of the concept of Afghanistan, much less identifying as Afghan.

That's disingenuous as it's an ethnic conflict not a religiously motivated one.

Besides you're paraphrasing people who rightly point out that Muslims are more inclined than any other religious group to commit terrorist attacks on civilians regardless of how far removed they are from the conflict or the targets are ie Pakistani terrorists attacking ignorant American civilians for their tacit support of Palestinian repression by Israel.

You don't see Tibetan monks or Japanese Buddhists attacking American or Indian civilians for their complicit role in supporting the Sinhalese military.

Again though, as a side note, Buddhists have never been peaceful even in their infancy, the earliest Buddhist kingdoms such as the Indo-Greek in their zenith had a philosopher king (Menander I) who contributed many treatise on Buddhist thought, was himself a grand warrior and conqueror.

And the Buddhists who initially came into contact with Muslim barbarian expansions towards the east, saw it as their justified duty to fight back and eliminate what they deemed as the anathema of their religion. In a similar vein to tankies in how they see themselves against Nazis.

What about the rohynga genocide?
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Muslims_in_Myanmar

yeah forgive my simplifying of the conflict. But Buddhism has long been used as a tool of Sinhalese supremacy in Sri Lanka, and in the post war period many Hindu temples or statues have been destroyed or reconverted to Buddhist needs.

They along with the US and China also funded the Mujahideen as soon as the communist revolution (which was actually unaided by the Soviet Union as they were happy with their cordial relationship with the king and then his brother who in turn toppled him and made Afghanistan a republic) overthrow the old Afghan monarch.

Pakistan helped destroy Afghanistan out of spite of the sentiments of the people, people say Afghanistan was the USSR's Vietnam, but the reality was that they didn't instigate it (Gulf of Tonkin incident) and were fighting on the side of the people against the Afghan Mafia essentially (as opposed to the US supporting the ultimately fascist South Vietnam).
Having said that, the Soviets were more concerned with containing the Islamic threat rather than supporting the communists there.

I already mentioned that Buddhists can be intolerant shitheads earlier when I mentioned Thailand earlier. I was just pointing out that it's not a major factor in the Sri Lankan conflict which is more of an ethnic fuelled war.

Wow, there surely is a strong and recent influx of liberal Muslim apoglogists on this board, even going so far as to post outright lies that can be disproven with a google search.

Communism and your iron age partriarchic, theocratic imperialsm are not fucking compatible. In fact it is one of the least compatible ideologies there's out there.

Fucking get over it.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zulfikar_Ali_Bhutto
get a brain moran

I stand corrected bravo, given how much of a corrupt shitty autocrat that the other Bhutto was (the daughter), it gives the strong impression that the PPP was merely just a populist chauvinist party with little leftist merit.

Thanks, it's nice to know that even in Pakistan, there's potential for benevolent class consciousness.

tbqh fam this is true with literally all religions but people only get triggered when islam is mentioned

Wrong. Christianity is literally socialism before socialism and by holding this idiotic muh all religions are bad you are simply too much of a liberal to critique Islam only.

B-b-but zakat is LITERALLY full communism!!!

I agree that all religions suck but the reason why it's the most triggering here is because this kind is apologism towards Islam is so abundant in leftist circles. In fact a part leftypol's distate for anything idpol including this one is what makes it distinct from them.

Fuck off you spooked shithead and shove your faulty ideology someone down the throat that is more easy to indoctrinate, like small children, poor and alienated people.

Probably wouldn't surprise you that Kissinger had him killed in the end.

I don't like Christianity, but at least they had the Cathars, Paulicans, the Bogomils and the Quakers (who in the UK still host Labour Party meetings in their halls).

Where were the peasant movements in other religions? Islam is a homage to slavery (I'm not going to lie, it would be awesome to have a dozen concubines), Hinduism glorifies the caste system to the extent that even today marrying outside your caste to many Hindus is like how racists feel about miscegenation and that's all I can comment on for now, don't know how workers/peasants are viewed in the other major faiths.

Ah yes, there it is

So called "radical leftists" are always like this.
Once there's a Islamic terrorist attack you suddenly become an expert on the crusades and abortion clinic attacks.

When Christianity is used as a justification for evil, it stems from ignorance of the teachings of Jesus. But in the case of Islam, violence, rape, and terrorism are essential to it and so called "moderate Muslims" are heretics according to the Quran

Why won't you just admit you have to shoehorn in the "muh all religions are bad" meme because it offends your liberal sensibilities to criticize islam (since you don't want to be seen as a racist)

Complete islamophobic garbage.

Let's not forget Judaism also had its own radicals - Sabbatians, Frankists, early Hasidim (before they became batshit religious Zionists).

There is no Protestant Islam or Reform Islam. Qur'an-onlyists are considered heretical by nearly every other Islamic school.

What are you even talking about dude, I made this post>>1146649

Islam is shit. You religion is shit. All religion is shit.

Fascist buzzword.

It's always funny when two apologists are arguing.

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There is nothing leftist about Christianity and there never has been. Attempts to form leftist politics with a Christian basis have universally been rejected as heresy by the religion at large.

While this is true, much criticism of Islam is also based in Western paranoia over terrorism and the CIA's attempt to turn the Islamic world into an enemy to be conquered.

Don't get me wrong, everything should be criticized, but it should also be criticized well.

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Just say it out loud and we are done: I THROW THE MOST BASIC ASPECTS OF COMMUNISM UNDER THE BUS WHENEVER THEY CONTRADICT WITH MY PERSONAL SPOOK.

sectarian ideological purists and cringey larpers like you are why the left is dead now.
and if does ever get anywhere 100 years hence it will be no thanks to you.

Anyone who is thinking otherwise is fooling themselves with the last appendix of pre-Enlightenment bullshit.

Vulgarizers like you are the reason why the left is a schizophrenic and cynical mess.

Most of these so-called liberation/militants
are funded by the US government