What the fuck is fascism Holla Forums?

That's just boiling the entire concept of nationalism down to its most basic iteration, but fascism is more complex than that. It involves all this crap about then inherent irrationality of the human being and the embracing of emotion and action as an end in and of itself and all kinds of weird mysticism and shit.

That's actually the more 'educated' version of Fascism, which is Sorelian Socialism

But make no mistake, most of the educated parts are just rabble rousing, most fascists at heart only believe in deep resentment of those they claim are their enemies. Whether its the left, or the jews, or the big bankers or whoever is the crony and enemy of the moment

I cook my own

You can't cook burgers. Mere mortals do not have the ability to create such marvelous excellence that we call burgers. You have to buy burgers!

Fascism is the ad baculum argument put into practice and some contrived Roman myth about bundled sticks carried by magistrates to give it respectability. We see it everywhere where authority goes unquestioned, so with Nazis and tankies basically.

Bundle of sticks mean a people acting as a single entity. A single stick is easily broken, but a group of sticks are harder to break.

Yes, and a fascist will use the metaphor to do horrid things because muh unified will of the people.

Well, that's what fascism is. It's generally just tribalism.

You have to understand that the reason for the horrid things is precisely because we believe in the worst things that can happen to us

marxists.org/archive/trotsky/works/1944/1944-fas.htm

Really activates my almonds.

I see your human nature and I raise my Kropotkin's Mutual Aid.

Check out Stim's recent vid What is Mutual Aid it's short and good.

golibgen.io/view.php?id=627546

this is wrong though

many capitalist were murdered because they were capitalists

he talks a lot about the Corporate State as fascism but that's is more as a metaphor thatn a dissection of fascism

very vague an outdated article

so fascism will equal stalin and mao?

peron wasn't a fascist

another vague definition

social darwinism is just planification of society and evry country does that
and irrationalism is universal

wikipedia cites those studies and analysis

dont you think that every single country in the world does this, cmon

the rest is just talking about how the crisis of capitalism causes fascism but it never defines fascism, only in this quote
and he is wrong

so existentialism is now fascism?

then you tell me what is fascism

this isn't a definition

thois point the same thing as an article an user post it

it talks about the ccrisis that causes facism but he defines it as

very vague

is it good book or another vague book?

Then how come him and Hitler were fuckbuddies? Got fuck yourself Argie

Also, I already said what's fascism in all its 'glory':

Fascism is just capitalism in Panic Mode. Friedman admits as much in his defense of Pinochet, the fascist dictator who was necessary to save Chile's market economy from the evils of Allende's popular socialism.

Social Democrcy is the kinder, gentler, "leftier" variant, but whenever the chips were down, the socdems take the side of the capitalist system in whatever form (including fascism) it takes.

Fascism is radical nationalism. That is, if we're defining "fascism" as, essentially, the common ideological current of the Axis Powers.

Fascist countries have all had different economies and political structures because political economy was never the point of fascism. Fascism is radical nationalism, the various fascist systems we've seen historically have just been fascist praxis, the point was the establishment of a radical nationalist system and whatever that entailed for the particular country involved.

It is true that the theoretical function of fascism in a historical context is to save a dying capitalism when its liberal system can no longer support it by supplanting it was an illiberal system, but that's not what fascism itself is.

Great descriptions thanks

test

marxists.org/archive/trotsky/works/1944/1944-fas.htm

It's not really a good thing if a child can understand your ideology easily

this is actually a great definition
with this it will transcend the left and right dichotomy because they ill not care how it is achieved because they only care about its achievement and with this you can easily say that trump and le pen are neo fascist at least but the only thing that bothers me with this definition is that it sounds the same thing as chauvinism

then what is the difference between fascism and chauvinism?

pretty accurate

ffs, is this bait?

Stop being stupid, user.

I like that chart

Umberto Eco's short 1995 essay "Ur-Fascism" is, in my opinion, the most sensible and concise definition of Fascism around.

nybooks.com/articles/1995/06/22/ur-fascism/

Basically: Fascism is vague and more about aesthetics than theory, but it can be said to be rooted in the following: nationalism, populism, chauvinism, traditionalism, militarism, anti-modernism, irrationalism, anti-intellectualism, anti-parliamentarism, machismo, hero worship, conspiracy theories and petty-bourgeois resentment.

Well i'm not sure if this exactly match in english, but chauvinism is more "we're the best and can do no wrong", which do not necessary imply that foreigner can't have anything.

From a socialist perspective, fascism is "capitalism in decay," in that it comes about not because some higher elite in a dark room decided "now it's time for fascism", but because the conditions created by this decay can be exploited by fascists. Because it uses the frustration of the middle class, not against the cause of their frustration but at some minority group or vague entity. It is useful to the upper classes and so they more or less allow it, even when it is distasteful to them individually.

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to Socialism or regression into Barbarism."

monoskop.org/images/6/6c/New_German_Critique_No_17_Spring_1979_Walter_Benjamin.pdf

Read Benjamin's Theses on German Fascism. What is missing from most traditional analyses of fascism is fascism's reliance on aesthetics, or more specifically the politicization of aesthetics. This is arguably the key aspect of fascism. It drives the whole mythology behind the fascism in question.

This chart is breddy gud.

This. It would be a mistake to "intellectualize" Fascism — intellect is not what it relies on for its popular and political appeal.

The aestheticization of politics, I mean. Haven't had my morning coffee yet.

this shit right here niga

This is why so many accounts of fascism are worthless. They bring up thinkers like Spengler or Nietzsche, as if they had any real influence on the fascist movement. Fascists were not a product of Spenglerian or Nietzschean thought. The movement came first, its intellectual justification was worked out later, usually after the fascists acquired power and by agents rather than the fascists themselves.

It's authoritarian, collectivist anti-liberal nationalism of integral variety. It's important tenet is totalitarianism, to quote Mussolini: All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state. Naturally it is heavily conservative in order to ensure the social cohesion. Since fascism bases on nationalism, it is also expansionist and therefore heavily militaristic to fulfill that goal.
From the perspective of economy classical fascism as envisioned by Mussolini prefers corporatism and class collaboration in terms of economy, although some subtypes might be socialistic in nature(Asserism and national syndicalism come to mind). However they all advocate strong protectionism and usually seek to establish autarky.
It's funny that left usually defines ideologies subtypes by the way internal politics and economy work and what they aim to do, but in case of fascism we start doing the empty talk about aesthetics

I hate the way people phrase it, fascism is a political ideology, not an economic theory.

the application of fascism is very much capitalism in decay

this isn't a definition of fascism

this only explains the causes of fascism

another vague essay but at least you admit it

this could by said about stalin, fidel, mao, and chavez

this makes sense

this isn't a definition

so he doesn't talk about any ideological characteristics of fascism, only about its aesthetics?

this could be said of all ideologies

this is a contradiction

this isn't a definition

Not gonna lie, China's getting kinda fascist lately

So the US has turned to literal fascism?

They have public white supremacists taking posts in the government saying minorities can't be a stalwart of the western civilization.

The "we have to destroy radical Islam" is a codeword for "gotta kill shitskins" in a certain region.

Then there's the all time reminder through their officials that the country will go to a war soon, with a different turn, now it's simply brazen 'we have to take things from other', 'if smelly brown people defies us and look for other condition we are going to bomb them'

It's fascism with a new style.

And what to make of the supposed virtues people like Bannon espouse with white man's burden? Isn't horseshit because they will never reach that supposed place of good that "has to be reached through causing suffering and destruction", it's a justification, a bad one.

The US will go to war against some new country (besides those it's already present bombing with drones) in the next two decades, but this time it will be bomb runs with airplanes and pummeling with tanks, not just drones. Maybe during Trump's administration.

When one pierces through Hayek's chicanery, he is admitting just what I said about capitalism in Panic Mode.
His definition of "communism" is social democracy: state interventions in the economy in response to capitalist crisis and contradictions (through nationalizing industry, the welfare state, exploitation of colonies, etc). When these measures inevitably fail to protect capitalism from itself, fascism rises as the status quo's last line of defense.

How exactly? The people are encouraged to put the interest of the Nation/State/Race before their own, which is pretty collectivist(or anti-individualist if you wish to say so instead). At the same time the fascist state aims to establish one-party dictatorship, and dictatorships are a priori subtypes of authoritarian governments.

Fascism grew out of the right wing Sorelians and national syndicalist movements combined with ex-military, traditionalists and all anti-marxist authoritarians to destroy what they percieved as the biggest lie and failure of their times: the french revoltion and what followed it. So basically a total rejection of liberalism, parlimemtarianism, the left on cultural grounds, egalitarianism etc
If you would have asked Gentile what should have been revived after the dark ages were over and western civilization rediscovered the ancient world he would have responded with ancient organic oligarchy while any parlimentarian of that time would have responded with classical athenian democracy.

Additional to rather syndicalist/corpotatist economic ideas (britannica.com/topic/corporatism ) they also had vague ideas of the metaphysiyal. Where anarchy was in their eyes a temporary state of things to restructure things in one way, fascism was a temporary situation in order to revive the original spirit of the people and an organic society that was attacked by inner and outer foes through militarism and ultranationalist statism. Very closely tied to the idea of a romantic nationalist rebirth of ancient principples in modern times as an answer to universalist and faceless liberal parlimentarism. For the italians it was Roman society, for Germans it was the german pagan traditions, for the japanese it was the pre-westernized empire.

So fascism is basicallly so hyperreactionary that they even reject right wing conservatives and capitalists (often on the grounds that the merchant class in traditional pre-french revolution ideas europe was considered a lower caste than warriors who die for the nation and even workers and artisans because merchants make money by manipulating money and selling higher than they buy but dobt actually produce anything). Fascism was started to stop marxism but then turned around and bit its creator. Ironic.

Cann confirm. Television in china is 50% nationalism 50% patriotism. Very nice family show though, i binge watched 3 seasons of 'where are we going dad' with my wife.

Also the leaders of china are openly stating they have been reorientating torwards singapores model which is lead by a single party fascist goverment (the 'People's Action Party' pic related) since 80 years.

Picture is various chinese leaders with Lee Kuan Yew leader of the PAP and Singapore.

You made a mistake there. Nationalism is the opposition to Imperialism. While an empire wants to rule over subject nations, those subject nations crave nationalsim: the people of a nation ruling themself without any king or emperor of a foreign empire ruling o er them. Ghandi was a nationalist so was any anti-colonial struggle in africa and every jacobin.

This.
Also OP asked what fascism realy is about. As much as i agree with many of the quoted passages that review fascism from a left wing point of view this doesnt help much to actually define it. People should just consider this: ask an american conservative to define marxist ideologies and he responds by saying: “communism is movement rooted in economic revangism. Athoritarians and fascists convince workers to rise up and abolish the free market by using vague conspiracy theories about capitalists in order to seize power and steal your personal freedoms. Marxists pretend to be intellectual but at its core its jsut a move by jealous bureaucrats that had no success in life to enact their revenge against economically successfull indidividuals by ceasing the means of production and controll of the economy allegidly for the workers.“

Whether this is true or not (its not obv) this is commentary that does not actually adress a single characteristic actual conviction of marxism. The same goes for the likes of

As much as i agree with most of it, its still commentary from an obvious class struggle view point and not a real definition/summary of its worldview.

Its capitalism in decay

I disagree. Nationalism and irredentism played an important role for most fascist states. Hungary under Horthy was expanding in the areas inhabited chiefly by Hungarians, Mussolini was targeting Dalmatia or Italian-French border for similar reasons. Most notable example of it was Lebensraum for Nazi Germany, as initially Hitler expanded in the areas with large density of German population(Austria, Sudetes, Memel) and many of his autistic wet dreams were also based on national justifications, like Baltic States(Livonian Order and Baltic Germans) and even Crimea(because Goths lived there over a millenium ago kek). Similarly, colonialism and imperialism were pushed by Mussolini and Hitler because the conquered lands were supposed to be living space for the nation of conquerors. Not too mention that Hitlerite race talk was basically skin color-based nationalism.

quality definition nerd

It's because fascists have no consistent ideology. This is the best I've got, give it a read.

Glad I could help

such as?

Nah, all fascists support corporatism. They believe in social harmony and class collaboration under a totalitarian state.

So National-Syndycalists and Asserites are not fascists?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_Manifesto

How many fascists have read that? Ten?

They are, because they support both of those

"national syndicalism" is a fascist codeword, much like "3rd positionism"

I am tackling the economic perspective. Asser and Roehm both believed in class struggle, which is why they got knived by Adolf-san, I'm pretty sure we could apply the same to Sorel who was a major influence on national syndicalists and later regular fascists.

The question is if there is such thing, not that it has been popular among edgelords. Also:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifesto_of_the_Fascist_Intellectuals
Some intellectuals did get attracted to fascism after all

Then just call it imperialist when its about expanding beyond places that are settled by germans. But saying something nationalist because its expansionist is wrong is my original point.
Also funny enough hitler wasnt the most racist guy or at least he didnt realy talk or think about other races. He actually had a jewish friend and protected the jews occasionally. The fanatics were Rosenberg, Himmler and the whole nordicist faction hitler wasnt even a part of.

They believe in very well defined key principles and share a metaphysical world view. Why its so different from fascist country to fascist coubtry is because they are not universalist (unlike liberalism who claim all people can live under the same or similair rules and marxist ideologies who claim the same). Since they believe every nation is different and has its own national character fascists dont set up universal rules other fascist societies have to follow. They actually believe that fascism is the organic way of living your nations culture. So for the japanese its a religious-political shintoism with a god emperor and for germans its a germanic corporatist dictatorship. In their eyes it wouldnt make sense for a free narket people like the brits to abandon their character and become like german fascists or maybe a more decentralized culture ro become more centralized. At least in theory. I thunk that aspect of it could actually legitimize the reality that trump's business nationalism might be the american expression of fascism.

I was mostly thinking about the intent. The fascist imperialism was done not merely for the sake of the profits, but for the sake of the Nation too, just look at the Spazio Vitale and Lebensraum that was to be realized through Generalplan Ost,

The space vital of the US is profit/market. I don't see any difference between Hitler and the US…

the US is a very racist country, through all the country there is an immense emphasis on race. Now that it went too far on what they view it should be barred from going more far… mind you, the US now wants to use strict military force to convert the work of foreign people to America's cashflow and growth. The US is very militaristic belligerent country, exactly like the Third Reich. But the characteristic of US fascism is the market/dollar.

The difference between the US and Hitler is that at least the US allows a group of people to live but only for them to grovel at the feet of Americans after they have bombed said people's country back to the stone age.

What an idiotic drivel. Colonial powers like Britain or Netherlands of the bygone age and modern-day US have not been fascist just because of their imperialism, as their intent is not creation of colonial living space for the citizens of a given country, but merely profits and maintaining socio-political hegemony for the higher classes of a country. If imperialism = fascism, then fascism would have existed before even the concept of nations existed.
Also US is not really a formal dictatorship. We could say it's a quasi-oligarchy with the legislature used to appease the bourgeoisie, but calling it a formal dictatorship is a bit of a hyperbole

wow it's almost like completely different things can share some of the same traits but in different combinations or something

Just in case anyone is still paying attention to this thread, I'd recommend Paxton's "Anatomy of Fascism".
In terms of where it comes from, fascism is a reaction to loss of status and muh privilege. The first feelings of fascism are "community decline, humiliation, victimhood" and the violent need to reclaim whatever ground you've lost. This is why the NSDAP was popular with what was Germany's middle class, losing their shops and jobs to the Great Depression.
Fascism tries to respond to that loss by "setting aside due process and democracy in public life… It is a phenomenon of failed democracies".
To rejuvenate the community, people gave up on liberalism, they voted to remove their own freedom, in a way, to remove the 'national enemies' who had let down the community. (Socialists, Jews, Gypsies and the disabled in Germany, socialists and Slavs in Italy)
In practice, this means that fascist states have an elected leader who bans democratic elections in order to remove 'national enemies' and create a pure community.

A fascist is anyone who isn't a bleeding-heart communist. Several decades after the rise of fascism, the communists haven't been able to let go.

Isn't that, ever since the Nazis broke the pact with the USSR and got their shit absolutely rekt they've been salty little whiners?

...

what are you if you think the current capitalist system is broken but you also think society based on national values is threatened?

Varg is that you?

That doesn't make sense since the Fascists struggled for power and often killed the communists before they had even reached power.
The Axis powers formed their alliance on the Anti-Komintern treaty.
Hayek is just being an end-of-history retard and disregarding hundreds of years of political philosophy of both the conservative and socialist varieties.

Christian Socialist?

to put it clear, fascism is dying capitalism, that tries to justify their system by appealing to identities, such as race, religion or nationality, of course there are some cases where fascists called themselves "progresivists" or "truly (unlike marxism) socialism" to be more attractive for the working class, examples: nationalsindicalism, nationalsocialism, libertarianism.

...

now you know why all modern forms of government are cancer and the politicians are cancerous
study hard and be ready to make the revolution happen - it starts with you

uh who?

Yes. Communists went full bore for Nazi Germany during the few years when they had an alliance with the USSR. Communists today are still following orders they received 50 years ago.

What's wrong with that? You really think niggers and arabs for example would ever work together?

You can never really pin it down because Fascists don't actually have really a shared set of beliefs and ideologically they are very slippery and constantly change what they say. Hitlers beliefs were quite radically different to Mussolini, Mussolini's beliefs were quite ideologically different to Tojo, Tojo's beliefs were quite different to Franco etc.

There is no real list you can point to and say these are "Fascist" policies, where say, Mussolini had quite "leftist" economic policies, Pinochet was the opposite for example.

Fascism is more a set of observations you can make of extremely reactionary movements and Governments.

Things like the cult of masculinity, cult of tradition, xenophobia etc etc.

For example, I would consider Trump and his movement Fascist. Lots of people here don't, but from watching his movement, his speeches and the way he manipulates the masses, I do think America when Trump is sworn in will have a Fascist Government.

The Republican National Convention this year was like Fascism in overdrive. It really was.

I work with Arabs, blacks, Africans, Nepali, Indians, Mexicans, and white people, Euro and American. Everyone gets along fine and does their job.

So humans vs. orcs

The whole point of communism is to allow people to work out not work as much or as little as they want.

No it wasn't. There is certainly a proto-fascist subsection of his supporters, but to claim his campaign was anything more than populist seems totally hyperbolic to me.

Right winger who probably doesn't understand what capitalism is or the critique of it.

so fascism means nothing?

so just like a boogyman?

Then every political struggle is fascism. Are you actually one of those pacifist liberals?

FUCK POLITICAL SPECTRUMS. I'm serious. Completely ignore them. They are all garbage.

Now then.

Fascism is a form of petty bourgeois revolution with the aim not of abolishing the class system, but to simply allow one group to occupy the plae of the bourgeois. It temporarily robs the bourgeois of control, and it is the inevitable endpoint of bourgeois democracy.
Its main tenets are an opposition to socialism and unions, a profound allegiance to a supreme leader, a strong identification to a mythical (usually inaccurate or warped) history, and an emphasis on patriarchal values.

For more info read "The Shock of Recognition"

but this already happening in all countries

[spoiler]exactly.

Corporatism isn't capitalism. The only redeeming factor fascism and fascist thinkers ever had was that they rightfully predicted the rise of neoliberalism in the west.

>youtube.com/channel/UCP6xfFX0h5FGHtJ4uUFBZNA/videos

>tl;dw Fascism is a way of thinking that involves rejecting the Age of Enlightenment (they deem it as a sort of great mistake), the modern world and materialism (they consider socialism/communism and capitalism to be two sides of the same materialistic coin) and applying/returning "universal, objective truths" (i.e. "some things are objectively better than others") to society, all for the ultimate goal of creating a truly natural state, by any means (ideology) necessary, even Anarchism

>tbh watching f101 made me a much more radical leftist

>youtube.com/watch?v=NyeTaXv6o4Y I feel like this would be a little entertaining with the context above

FUCKING KEK'D

end urself

as Adorno put it, fascism is just repressed homosexuality, anti-intellectualism ramped up to an extreme with an ideologically driven obsession towards technological advancement with for reason.

Fascism to describe it simply is Absolute Monarchy without the king in its place but some ego-maniac who thinks he is king.

Also its hilarious how some how some idiots from Holla Forums want to paint nazis or "NatSocs" as they like to call them as some traditional conservative people while they were quite the opposite, degenerate scum who worshipped a junkie, burned books and thought christianity was some evil jewish conspiracy aimed at destroying ONLY germans.

well at least you're self-aware

Social democratic countries tend not to seek autarky.

Thanks to Britbongistan and USrael, of coursh.

Great bump mate we all want to play "I'm autistic and want the last word on an imageboard" with you.

those moments when FDR lauded fascist leaders and enjoyed an extramarital affair

nytimes.com/2010/07/29/us/29fdr.html

While I agree that overall trump is not a fascist the RNC this election was extremely fascist it was completely grotesque