ECONOMIC PLANNING

I am most definately in favour of planning.

RADIO

President of Liberia denied landing at Banjul airport in Gambia

Two Gambian Parlimentatrians arrived in Dakar Senegal ysterday

care to explain further tho? What sort of model are you in favor of specifically? More centralized models seem a dangerous concentration of power to me and decentralized models seem impractical.

I never really liked marksocs, but I'm beginning to feel like market socialism is the only viable alternative to capitalism

So because there was a leader in Germany who did certain things, it means the new USA president is also going to do the same things? I don't get it.

fake, sound of the bomb came like 2 seconds later

Austinite?

It's hell, I agree

John Oliver is objectively unfunny to anyone that is over the age of 12

False dilemma. Not wanting to facilitate charity through gov programs does not mean the individual will not/does not support charitable programs.

THEFUTUREISNOW

Get out

but doesn't that mean protestantism is false?

This is not the license, it's from the regular tax.
Only DR is license.

the fuck is this autism

Well, I personally am a proponent of something along the lines of a simulated market. The rundown goes as followed:

Thats the gist of it. Provides flexibility, autonomy and allows you to work towards communism, by over time making very cheap commodities free (gratis) by funding the little cost it has with money. Slowly but surely more and more of the commodities will become free, and work hours will reduce. At some point in the future, you can abolish money altogether and directly use supply and demand figures to allocate resources. This problem can be researched in the timespan between our implementation of a simulated market and the later stages of socialism, where we abolish money, plenty of time to experiment on smaller scale.

Workplaces are worker managed of course, they just have to adhere to standards and practices, and produce in accordance to the rule of prices.

If you implement this, you have a system that very closely mirror our current market system, but without the booms and busts. This gives you plenty of time to also research alternatives such as directly using supply and demand to distribute resources, and creating systems to more efficiently move resources around, rather than letting humans do it. But for that, we need time, which a simulated market buys us.

Fear not, for it's nothing but just the materialistic ways that are being shoved down the throats of normies by globalist cucks.
If we are to see the height of civilization we need to cripple this machine and clean up the political detritus that is plaguing our society.
Stay steadfast.

they are literally taking children off the streets and from collapsing orphanages out of the country. When the children are out of the country, their parents have very little ability to find the children. remember Haiti was in a state of chaos so determining who is an orphan would be riddled with potential for mistake. during her trial, the court found that the 30 children Lauren was found with were not orphans. There was nothing stopping these people from organizing emergency shelter in haiti or using undamaged structures, the primary objective of this operation was to get the children out of the country.
The goddamn idea of taking kids off the streets is chilling. How the how can you know they are orphans? if you take them to a nearby shelter, their parents have a chance of finding them again but taking them to another goddamn country? there is a goddamn reason they were charged with trafficking

He's married to his job.

delet this

The USSR and China can certainly attest to its awesome power, I'm just not sure how you can ever have a planned economy without rebuilding authoritarian and thus exploitative capitalist hierarchies.

Scientism… could concievably exist, but I think the fact that you even use the word betrays deep ideological bias in your own thinking that I have neither the passion nor the incentive to assault today.

I don't assert that embryology IS specifically detailed in the khoran. Thats not my position.

(They reference the 'breath of life' passages specifically, if you were wondering. I'm not going to stick this debate out, and you may have become curious about a rival religion, which is the slow path towards heresy and apostasy ;)

My position is that there exists NO holy document, anywhere, that does not depict a level of knowledge typical of that expressed in that area at that time.

Any holy document that was divinely inspired would have no competition and would not be up for debate, nor would it have the countless errors and conflicts with factual reality that we have with our current examples, of which there are thousands, and despite cult members assuring us otherwise, none of which stands out as particularly unique in its claims.

Scientism?
There could be some scientism in the field of climate science.

The only time scientism enters the debate of religion is when religion has a conflict with factually observed reality, and the religionists accuse those with the facts of being religious about science.

If you're honing your debating technique, and wish to fool/win against someone like me, never mention that joke of a word, as its a pejorative that will cause people like me to cease listening entirely.

...

Slovenia must be purged from the earth

Midnight Sun
Denmark
Any color

Makes it seem like labeling things alt right is the new "hitler"

Of vey don't forget the 11 gorillion goy!

Who are the CIA to say Trump's win was illegitimate? The CIA itself is illegitimate. Time to dismantle it.

Physical standards limit the Academy teams, that is why they all run the shitty option. It is not the best football by far.

AHAHAHAHAHHA
stupid leafs finally get the same level of dick slapping we got with the 20.

Not so cool now are you faggots

I guess when your culture is hollow and your life has no meaning, larping is the last frontier.

how fucking new are you?
lurk more faggot

I wish you well user.

And all of you, in fact.

I'm 25 years old. I've been browsing and posting in Holla Forums for 2-3 years but wish I'd been here earlier. 16 to 21-22 feels like such a dead, empty waste of time and life.

in general being happy people are dead is a sign that you're a bad person

ftfy

Lmao, which sad fuck originally posted this.

Spike Slawson makes some amazing music with a ukulele

OK bud. You're right that decentralized planning is impractical though. In fact, "totally unfeasible" is more accurate. Hayek himself touched on this issue and was right on the mark, shame the USSR proved him mostly (not totally, I grant) wrong in regards to centralized planning. As for your paranoid fear of centralized planning, it has no basis. You've no doubt received it from brainlessly eating anti-communist propaganda about real socialism.

I have no interest in contesting the fact that the bureaucracies of socialist countries were even more centralized in structure than seen in the West. But this was already occurring in the USSR years before the actual planned economy was put into place. Sure, the act of central planning did increase the instances of the state exercising authority (forceably relocating workers into urban areas and whatnot) but this was not even close to being the source of it. It's not like gosplan or the industrial ministries were calling all the shots, they were held entirely accountable to higher party authorities.

Lol whut

Sooo I was wrong about central planning even though it increased instances of the state forcibly relocating workers. Anyways that sounds a lot like workers' control to me. Being forcibly relocated and whatnot. That's the mark of a people firmly in control.

Shit, man, when you put it like that it really sounds like a group of empowered workers liberated from the exploitative forces of capitalism.

Anyways I've read some Marx. I understand why marksoc is horrible. I just don't see a better alternative at the moment. Honestly if it's a choice between having a vote in how I'm exploited and being pushed around by some pencil pushers in a government office, I'll go with the former.

No because i dont like starving

It's completely viable. Not only can computers do it. They are already doing it internally within capitalism on smaller scales. Amazon, for example is almost fully automated in the way it processes inventory and other things. There is no reason why we cannot do it under communism.

"readman" do you have anything to contribute? Anything I should read? call me illiterate and shit. I don't care. I just want to understand the way forward.

To me the issue is one of power. If one person or a small group of people has control of how all resources are distributed won't they inevitably end up serving sectional interests? Won't you always end up with a state-capitalist sort of system? I'd like decentralized planning if I could find a way to make it work.

Look I am against labour but this simply isnt true, if you think X amount of minutes to produce commodity or a service is exploting yourself, and x+1 minute isnt, then you could always keep adding more minutes so that you never get e ploited, but you wouldnt get anything done

(not a bot)

And what makes one believe that central planning requires that? Anti-communist propaganda. Central planning means central data processing, whether that processing is transparent to the public or not, whether decision-making regarding fundamentals is done by a small entrenched group of people who select their own successors or not.

Since central planning certainly does not imply that ordinary folks have much of a say in that either, it is important to address the democracy issue, and not being an edgy shit whose main difference with fascists seems to be he doesn't know about dressing with style like Bordiga.

1. Proposed changes to laws have to pass through a sortition-selected chamber. 2. Jail sentencing is decided not by judges, but by the median vote of sortition-selected juries. These juries can always go lower than what the law demands. 3. People can set fundamental limits of the plan like the range from minimum to maximum remuneration level by directly voting on them.

Correct. Thankfully, this can be solved in it's entirety through political reform, something which can't be said for the exploitation of labor by capital. As for your proposal that this cannot be solved because central planning is so inherently horrible, this was already addressed but you've forced me to take on the dull task of going over it again.

It should. Though it shouldn't sound like

Unfortunately, that's what you read anyway. I personally find the fact that the planning authorities had so much power regrettable. But, as you've already conceded their junior status to higher authorities like the central committee, (simply taking my word for it I assume, as you've demonstrated no knowledge of Soviet planning whatsoever) I'm left clueless as to why you insist their excesses of authority derived from the act of planning, and not the tightly-centralized bureaucratic authority that predates the socialist economy.

That's because you've been trained to see capitalism as inherently peaceful while socialism will always lead to a re-boot of the USSR every time. You have thus far not even bothered to explain your reasoning here.

Planning works for some things and doesn't work so well for others. Provided a democratic socialist system, the people could change policy to reflect what does and does not work. The economy is extraordinarily complex, to the point that even the most autistic theory can't account for all externalities and systemic causes until it examines real scenarios.

Yeah, gee it's almost as if I made this thread to learn more about economic planning. Anyways. I'm sold 100%. Sign me up for that forced migration you were talking about earlier. Really broke through dat gabidalist brobaganda XD with your behaving like an asshole and such.

ye. I suppose more democracy is always an option, if a somewhat crude one. Btw has anyone here read any communization theory? Does it address these issues?

reality.gn.apc.org/argumentsinparts6.pdf

part 4

thanks for the reading. I'll get to it soon :D

I am in favour of a model based on economic calculation, but with more data avaliable to whatever unit calculations are carried out at, so more things can be accounted for.

Computer models should definitely be used,as well as automation.

How I think this should be implemented, I do not know, but obviously I'd want to avoid it being overly centralised. Perhaps a peer-to-peer network could be used to share data and perform market calculations in a decentralised manner… I definitely need to look more into the technical details though.

Nove talks about this quite a bit
digamo.free.fr/nove91.pdf

I pretty much agree with him. We should have centralized planning for what is the most efficient to be done as such, (what has as economy of scale) and leave everything else to decentralization.