So, if class basically means whether you're an employer or an employee...

So, if class basically means whether you're an employer or an employee, does that mean that "middle class" is a bullshit concept?

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Yeah,
The idea of organizing classes by income is contrarian to historical materialism

Yes.

Should that be part of our narrative? Attacking the concept of middle class aggressively to give room for the labour-capital-dichotomy

Yes, it made sense in 18th and 19th century when there was an actual middle class(capitalists), but now it's kind of redundant

Yes.

Class describes your relationship tot he means of production.

Capitalist: Owning MoP, extracting surplus value by having the Proletariat work with them

Middle Class: Working with their own MoP

Proletariat: Working with MoP owned by Capitalists

When will the Holla Forums sponsored Wolff episode air?

January.
Soon brotha.

Huh
That's interesting

Of course. "Middle class" is meaningless because most people self-identify as middle class, and most of those are wage laborers. We need to make an effort to redefine class in the minds of Westerners. Class is not about income, it's about the relations of production.

We also need to use words and phrases that are instantly recognizable to the general population. I once saw a video of a Marxist using a megaphone calling on the pedestrians around him to "reject false consciousness", as if they would have any idea what the fuck he's talking about.

Bourgeoisie = Ruling class, capitalists, "the elite"
Proletariat = Working class, workers, "the workers" or even "the people"
Lumpen Proletariat = Lower class, "the impoverished"
Petite-Bourgeoisie = Small proprietors (avoid "small business", as this conjures up sentimental "mom and pop" or "middle class" imagery)

So are the self employed middle class?

Yes. Historically, the term referred to the bourgeoisie, back when the main classes were laborers, business owners, and the nobility. It was used to mock the bourgeoisie as noble-wannabes. Now that the nobility is gone, the term is sometimes used to refer to the petit-bourgeoisie, but in practice I think the entire idea of a "middle class" is moot in the present day.
Some people use it to refer to people in the "middle" of the income distribution, but I find that this usually depends on a (wrong) assumption that income (or wealth) distribution is a bell curveā€“in reality, it's skewed to the left, with the large majority of people living near the subsistence line.

Yes. Or they are small time employers.

Middle class is a bullshit term, but I'm going to assume you're using it to mean "petit-bourgeisie."
Anyway, it depends on whether or not you have employees. And I don't mean hiring people on one-off or contract basis. If other people work with your property, and you use your ownership of said property as justification for taking possession of everything they produce with it, you're bourgeois. (If you're the worker in this scenario, you're proletarian.)
If you're self-employed but you don't have any workers under you, you're not really part of this class system (which is a good thing).

$10.

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who cares

Skewness is said to be in the direction of the tail, so income is actually skewed to the right

t. autism

he's literally /ourguy/

and it upsets you

i also could have been the pope

AYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

I love aliums tho

No it's because you went off on an unrelated tangent I had no interest in discussing with you.

Further, you're an australian and I honestly couldnt give a rats ass about you or your country. You can't vote in the US so I fail to see a need to address you since no matter what I say it wouldnt influence my life in the slightest as I dont live in Australia where you vote and I never will.

lel

True. Thanks, comr8.

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