Zelda is an RPG

How many of you are under 18 and came here from reddit?

The male Braixen meme.

Male Braixen don't exist.

no

Does any of those games fit in all the criteria? Also, does Crash really progress through colecting items? He doesn't even keep them through the whole game.

If we consider a game like Xenoblade an RPG, then Zelda is an RPG too. Albeit with much simpler mechanics.

8 was never anything else.

It only exists because it was a refugee camp for a pol exodus and the gg exodus from 4. The trickle of people who have joined since have assimilated or left.

It should come as no surprise that the culture has zero tolerance for people who whine about the feelings of feminists.

My point exactly

Welp, see you next week when this thread is finally on page 15 and someone decides to necrobump it.

But new vegas is better then pretty much all bethseda trash except morrowind.

It did open world better then fallout 3 with its locked down invisible wall "safari" zones. People really forget how small fallout 3 was.

Theres quests, side quests, quest rewards, other activities, items, optional items, increases in attack power with weapons, shields. Its mostly linear but so is fable.

Also virtual novels are not video games.

Have to agree. New Vegas has a good flow from area to area. I never liked Bethesda's design philosophy on maps. Morrowind got away with it due to the many types of dungeons. You don't feel a good sense of progression like you do in NV when you have the holorifle and go deathclaw hunting.

And this also lets for more interesting and varied areas. Tell me what's so interesting about the vast nothing you find in FO3.

87.5%

Say that to my face, nigger. See what happens.
I'm going to shout and object to your statements. All of them

100% lies

It's been like this for years. Ever since people started thinking "RPG", when referring to video games meant "playing a role", they tacked it onto every single game because you are always controlling a character.

Most people on Holla Forums are too young so they think the modern definition of RPG is correct when it's fucking stupid.

"Role playing game" used to refer to D&D type games. And it still meant that when videogames started using the D&D formula with stats and rng and turn-based combat. But after a few years people started to take it as literally "playing a role of a character" and having a few rng numbers for damage meant THIS GAME IS AN RPG. I still don't acknowledge the modern definition of "RPG". I still associate it with rolling dice and turn-based combat, even though everyone says I'm wrong because IGN and Gamespot told them Mass Effect is an RPG.

100% Denial.

These are all pretty common in RPGs, but they're also common in adventure games, which is what LoZ is.

How can I be in denial when I'm right?

Fennekin line is always female.

Zelda 2 is an action RPG, it has exp, and leveled stats (attack, magic, and life).

an RPG is a game that features 1) a set of tangible, appreciable statistics that directly correspond to intangible qualities like strength, charisma, and wisdom, 2) the ability to modify those statistics by earning experience points by defeating enemies and completing quests, and 3) the electronic simulation of die-rolling mechanics from pen-and-paper RPGs like Dungeons & Dragons to determine success and failure.Action-adventure games, on the other hand, are, unsurprisingly, a mixture of elements from action and adventure games. They feature 1) action elements that require quick reflexes and good hand-eye coordination like real-time combat and physical challenges, 2) adventure elements like exploration, puzzle-solving, inventory systems, dialogue, and story, and, consequently, 3) a combination of violent and non-violent trials to overcome.Which sounds more like The Legend of Zelda?

Thank you, someone making some fucking sense in this thread.
In an RPG, your characters stats and the choices you make
AND IF YOU CAN'T MAKE ANY MEANINGFUL CHOICES IT'S NOT A FUCKING RPG
are what determine the outcome of events, not your "dodge parry roll" skills as your progress through a linear story of spiky haired emos and SJW space xirs.

but it has an 87.5% male rate

Shit threads on Holla Forums.

The line between rpg and adventure is too blurry, but its not something unique to modern days. How many games let you create a fully customizable character and play a story you can interact with? Early bethesda comes to mind, maybe gothic but that's all. How's the first FF, for example, an rpg? Every gameplay is the same, the only changes are a few numbers in combat
Out of all the shit you could've picked. I'd say ME (at least me1) is an rpg since you create a character, customize what it does and choose your actions. Granted, it's shit on this aspect since all characters will do the same things, on a different way. But it's something

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No word of a lie, I used to have a friend who legitimately believed this.

he also told me I'd die early from stress because I didn't like pewdiepie

Shit threads are all that's left by now.
If it wasn't for shitposters, a lot of threads would never even fall out of the catalog.

The only reason people say it's a RPG is because they called the first few games that back in the 80/early 90s in japan. (Zelda II being a "Action RPG.") And what qualified as a RPG was much more broad then. The idea of a adventure game in the 80/90s wasn't quite the same either.

Going by the definations we have now, it's much simpler to call Zelda an Action Adventure game.

>The Bioshock series being good.

Board's on life support, and I'd be amazed if this site lasted another year. It's been a fun two and a half to three years, hasn't it?

J"RPG"s and visual novels.

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Is this tard cereal?

is this retard serious?

Zelda is a GAME where you PLAY the ROLE of Link, a Hylian hero saving the world.

Serious retard spotted

J"RPG" started this bullshit.

Xenoblade shit is not an RPG. It's an action game with RPG elements.

Really why people still don't get this is beyond me.

Why would redditors come here when they can just go to 4?

Because the epic memesters of Holla Forums wanted them.
They thought it was a great idea to shill their shit on /r/donald. And leaving links back to this place aswell.
Or do you think their pph doubled after the elections out of some sort of miracle?
The TRS faggots are a direct spawn of the faggotry that Holla Forums was warned against perpetrating. They'll now reap what they sowed for months.
The pph has gone way down though, but that's the usual redditor being triggered by things he doesn't like. A few still remain, particulary edgelords that think it's kewl to jump in threads and simply post "this gaym is shit XD"

Do you think it halved immediately after because it wasn't shills?

Or because they spread to other boards?
Holla Forums pph rose quite a bit
Or maybe because 90% of them are tumblr-tier retards that get triggered with gore?
Many of them left, yes.
But consider the one's who stayed.
Imagine what kind of redditor arrives here, looks around and decides "Yes, this will do, I like this place".
It's not the kind of person that actually thinks before posting or even cares about what he posts. It's the kind of person that heard legends about "memes" and wants to stay here to get them fresh, repost them on facebook before all his highschool friends see it,
It's the ultimate hipster, and both Holla Forums and Holla Forums helped breed it.

The "every game is a RPG because you play a role!" meme is pretty fucking retarded.

New Vegas had fucking signs and NPCs warning you about creatures wanting to fuck shit up. What a retard.

That's an answer to people who say Quake is a MOBA. Genre names are meaningless, and are more like magnets for a few key points of a genre. For example, RPG's are more about character customization and choice, while RTS is about base building and army and resource management. That's why RTT's aren't RTS and City Builders aren't RTS, even if both have strategic elements that you play in real time.

New vegas was absolute fucking shit you delusional fuck.

No. You are retarded. An adventure game is something like Grim Fandango. Calling Zelda an adventure game is the height of being retarded and underage. Don't spout shit when you don't even know the definitions of the words you're using.

>It's just cosmetic and therefore okay to be sanctioned off as DLC/microtransactions

The only people who think this are legit underage. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together can understand that there's a difference between roleplaying and simply having an onscreen avatar.

Fight me.

If you play Persona you are a weeb and Jesus/Trump hates you. Accept it. Embrace it. Deal with it.

This is why I always supported the pedos on /hebe and /cutegirls. We also need CP bots back.

There no more normalfags.

As a non-weeb I never understood the appeal. I mean, I saw that one endurance run from Giantbomb and the game has some funny moments but the sheer autism people seem to have developed for it is odd. Also apparently there hasn't been a new Persona after 5 for ages and people are still sperging about it.

Xenoblade is in no way an action game. It's a cooldown based RPG like an MMO. There's no manual input for attacking, defending, dodging. It's all menus, and not in the same way KH is either. It's like WOW.

Aka

But that's true you retarded newfag. The only thing bringing people to RPG's is seeing the impact they have on the world and its characters. If you're just playing an RPG to kill shit, level up, and kill higher level shit, then there's really not much point in it being an RPG because by then you're just playing an action game with arbitrary stats. It's even worse in turn based RPG'S because all you're doing is making your button presses lesser in quantity.

RPG's NEED world building and plot, other genres rarely do.

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That's not a meme, you fucking idiot. You're the one that would get punched instead.

I feel like OP started this thread with good intentions then it slowly devolved into an "unpopular opinion thread" for newfags to feel less left out.

That's a pretty broad and sweeping statement. What makes you think you speak for "the people?"

Oh, I'm sorry
Do you feel included now?

So the only thing that matters in one type of game is not the actual game but the window dressing around it. Alright.
Either you've only ever played really shit RPGs or you don't actually know what RPGs are. Here's a hint: if the stats and character progression in a game are arbitrary, then it's not really an RPG at all.
This is why this meme needs to die, it makes retards like you think that story is anything other than cosmetic in all games.

Don't pretend that "the people" aren't vocal enough about how story > gameplay, how gameplay is too hard, and how many shit games are good because muh story.

Where'd that come from? You have nothing legitimate to attack me on so you just make shit up instead?

Which is only avoided in RPGS with a good setting/plot.
If you're playing an RPG for the gameplay, you're in the wrong genre. Most good RPG'S would be barely memorable were it not for either the abstract choice-making your character can have on the world (Mountain Blade, Morrowind), or Choice and Consequences(Dudesex, Fallout)

My guess is youre a JRPGfag and you don't really know what an RPG is anyway.

What other memes should just die, Holla Forums?

Congrats for proving me right I guess

You mean the gameplay?

how are any of the things I've said not in line with OP? Especially the second one, since I'm tired of every procedurally generated game getting a roguelike title slapped on it.
Also I'm not saying you're the newfag, but you seem pretty intent on trying to fit in

These are both men.

Well I guess VNs are vidya, too

Wasn't attacking your post, just the one below yours.

What exactly makes Grim Fandango an adventure game but not Zelda?

Yes, it can be, if it has an effect on your character and the world around you that will lead to a more desirable outcome. And making choices aren't necessarily limited to dialogue trees.

For example, I could use my character's skill in trade to buy some shit from a merchant, or I could just whip out my gun, blast him in the face, and rob his shit. This is gameplay.

Oh wait, I just realized that you think the gameplay in RPGs only refers to combat interactions.

Nigger, if the choices you're making have an impact on the game's content and the player's progression, it's still gameplay.

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I've been seeing a lot of this kind of shit over the past few months, it's really starting to get pathetic.

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It's the same guy that called people no life manchildren for disliking Oblivion's shitty level scaling because adflsdjhfl
Fucking razorcuck.

I only put you in the reply because you fell for the same meme as the other guy, not to reply to you directly.

Nintendo gives a shit about their fans.

There wouldnt be much purpose to have the choices affect the gameplay unless there was some form of story, now would there?

I think your problem is that you think story inherently refers to narrative, but it doesn't. I'm also referring to RPG'S where you create your own narrative, like previously mentioned Mount and Blade. It's just that to create your own narrative in RPG, you need a good world with its own values, rules, cultures, and standards.

In Morrowind, you can break the rules of any faction you've joined, this will demote you and sometimes even expel you. You'd probably argue that is a gameplay mechanic. And that's true, it is measured by in-game stats and rules, not linear dialogue trees or binary plot choices. It just happens with the game's mechanics.

However, this mechanic would have significantly less value if it didn't tie in with the story. Why were you kicked from this faction? The gameplay would tell you "well, you did this action", but the story would say, "You strayed from their values and now they no longer welcome you,"

This is not an accessory to the gameplay because it requires you to put the values of the faction, which were established in the plot, in mind when youre making choices in the rest of the game. An accessory would just say you're kicked out and that's all you need to know.

But that's just the player-driven narrative side of RPG's. I'll give you that you can make a successful player-driven narrative RPG with absolutely zero plot, but quality writing would do it much more favors than in, let's say a first person shooter game because of the nature of how you're handling the narrative.

Branching choice and cosequence RPG's, on the other hand, absolutely necessitate a story. I'm not even sure where to start with this because it's such a given that even absolute retards can grasp it. If there's no setting or plot, there's no reason to be making choices in the setting or plot. Deus Ex, Fallout, and Planescape Torment would be worthless were it not for the quality writing and the gameplay that works with the plot.

Then it's just shit and it shouldn't be an RPG.

The fact that most of your interaction is through dialogue, puzzles, and narrative choices. The primacy of plot over gameplay. The presence of an inventory and the usual rub-items-against-each-other-until-something-happens shtick. Basically, if it could be recreated in essentially the same manner as a text adventure, it's probably an adventure game.

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And Zelda can't be recreated in Text adventure?

And yet I would still make out with them and facefuck them as if they were girls.

No. Timing sword attacks, aiming the boomerang, avoiding fireballs, etc., are all action elements that demand a real-time graphical interface.

That's an action game then.

Since when do men have tits?

Yeah, I'd say Zelda is an action game. Maybe even "action-adventure," given the focus on exploration and puzzles. My point is that it's not an adventure game, and that retards are misusing the term "adventure game," when they've probably never even played one.

since people realized it was possible to have silicone implants?

Any game in which you play a role is by definition a role-playing game.

Sine they started cosplaying characters from shit anime

I wouldn't really count those as breasts.

You do not know what roleplaying is. Read the thread.

Well, when I think adventure game I think of Loom and other ScumVV games.
But "Aventure games" is a term that encompasses a lot things.

I'd also not mind an actual RPG in hyrule: pick a race, pick a class and then roleplay with it.

MY EYES
Do they fug?

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I agree, an RPG in Hyrule would be rad. Playing a Gerudo caravaneer or merchant would be enjoyable.

I imagine this would actually work as a Skyrim TC mod because Skyrim's mechanics are shallow enough for a Zelda-themed game, but complex enough to at least make an RPG if you mod them enough.

Only problem is you'd have to work on the entire project in sekrit until the very last minute because Nintenkike will shut that shit down like their lives depend on it.

Nope, just posing and bloom filters.

Trannies aren't men or women. They're trannies.
That said, if those were fake you'd see a scar in the second pic. Unless they shooped tht out while adding all that bloom, but unless you got some sort of proof I'm just gonna assume they're girls.

In an adventure game, the story matters just as much as even gameplay. It doesn't have to be a fancy almost up its own ass narrative, but it does need to be something compelling that inspires you to go exploring and discover the world and the secrets and legends it offers otherwise what would be the point of not just playing some older, better game of the same genre? In an RPG from Japan, the game almost entirely centers around the story. Everything that happens including character and relationship development is attributed to it in some way because it's the very reason they're all running around doing shit in the first place. So it has to be at least acceptable if flawed in terms of writing characters and plot or there's no point in caring.

Otherwise the story basically exists just to set up the setting, characters and objects that make up the gameplay and levels. There is nothing "meme" about this thinking whatsoever and John Carmack demonstrated it absolutely best with Doom, a legend of videogames that has mankind stupidly open a portal to Hell on Mars only so Doomguy has a reason to go around blasting them back to it.

semantics. the point is that it is NOT an RPG and contains almost 0 RPG elements. there is no leveling up, no XP, no skill traits, no hit points.
its an action game with some simplified adventure elements.
dynasty warriors is more of an RPG than LoZ.

JRPGs are RPGs because the "role playing" focus is typically in the skill/leveling up aspect. the "role" doesnt have to be in the story for it to be considered an RPG.

no ur a fallacy

I agree, but I never said that it was. I was bitching about people misusing the term "adventure game." Read the thread.

Are you retarded ?

By your logic Mario Sunshine should be an RPG

You're just retarded

Read the thread. Roleplaying is not the same as having an avatar, or playing pretend. Roleplaying entails a possibility space in which to make meaningful, permanent choices in gameplay and narrative, in order to align with the disposition, skills, and history of a character that you have created.

"youre arguing semantics"
"i was bitching about semantics, read the thread"
ok…

WOW I GUESS TERMS DONT HAVE MEANING AFTER ALL.
is that you bill clinton?

zelda has no hit points, HP, XP, stats, skills.
its not an RPG.
super metroid is just as much of an RPG. or castlevania, or even megaman.

this.
Technically speaking the only games that aren't RPGs are ones where you can design a character to have a reasonable likeness to yourself IRL. Counter-intuitively, so-called RPGs are not actually RPGs if there's a human race available and the player decides to make a toon in their own likeness

You are replying to an argument I never made, though. What the fuck was I supposed to say? You clearly didn't read my previous posts, or you would have known that.

This is the most retarded post in this thread so far.

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i was trying to get you back on track so you didnt continue arguing about a dead genre.
when he said adventure, its obvious he meant action adventure since its obviously not a fucking point and click nancy drew or hardy boys game like pic related.
tbh, they should have never been called adventure game
but hey… lets not argue semantics :^)

not an agruement

That makes me sad, user.

I agree.

Fine. See

What?

user, that guy you're responding too about the "agruement" used the word "toon".
I'm pretty sure he's baiting.
And I'm sorry to tell you this, but it looks like you fell for it.
My condolences.

Whatever story you make up in your head about your actions in the game doesn't have any bearing on the game itself.
You've literally stated why story is not important. The story is just some window dressing on top of gameplay and the only thing that gives it significance is some subjective value one gives it.
If the choices have an affect on the game itself rather than just the story, then it doesn't necessitate a story, just some descriptor about what the choices and consequences are.
There would be, but it would be purely gameplay driven and not based on one's investment in the story put in place to make the choices contextual in some narrative with no bearing on the gameplay.
You really don't know what an RPG is.

Consider this:
Action games are a genre defined by gameplay that focuses on skill involved with general motor skills - testing reaction speed, timing, and hand-eye coordination to determine success. There are several subgenres that differ mechanically - FPS, Beat-em-up, Shumo, etc. - but their design still focuses on what makes an action game an action game.
Strategy games are a genre defined by gameplay that focuses on players using their strategic and tactical planning skills to achieve success. There are several subgenres that differ mechanically - RTS, RTT, GSG, etc. - but their design still focuses on what makes a strategy game a strategy game.
Role playing games are a genre defined by gameplay that focuses on players developing characters' attributes and abilities and tests their performance their through various kinds of interactions (combat, dialogue, exploration, etc) in order to determine success. There are several subgenres that differ mechanically - ARPG, SRPG, Dungeon Crawler, etc. - but their design still focuses on what makes a role playing game a role playing game.

An entirely subjective merit that has no bearing on the actual gameplay. Literally any game could have a compelling narrative attached to it but it still has no effect on the actual gameplay.
There wouldn't, which is why story and narrative, like graphical style and fidelity are all just superficial and cosmetic qualities of a game.
If all you care about in a game are those superficial qualities than I can see why you wouldn't care about the actual game.

10/10 b8

by definition fighting games are any game where you fight like
DOA, streets of rage, dynasty warriors, smash bros, mortal combat, mario 64, senran kagura, GTA, minecraft, god hand, goldeneye, doom, FF7, deus ex.

yep, by definition these are all fighting games.

well… i guess its not COMPLETELY dead. they still make nancy drew and hardy boy games on the regular, and they released that one broken age game…. thats good, right? D:

SKDJFSHKDJVHRSJELVNRTSEKLJFLSDKFJSLDKFJSLKDFJAFKAKDJSEVNOIROEIRWUE ROCWEJALKFJ !")#$("=#)VNR"CU#IRM"

Kill me.

But user, they're making BOTW a WRPG.

well put.

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So Far Cry 3 is an RPG now?

pokemon snap is an FPS.

Doom is a real-time strategy game
Gone home is an adventure game
Five Nights at Freddy's is an action game
Undertale is a fighting game

I think I'm getting this pattern now.

kys

"role" + "playing" + "game" means something besides a game in which you play a role? Off to a great start here buddy.
so by this critereon something like Morrowind wouldn't qualify because the choices you make in gameplay are not permanent: your choice of class doesn't restrict your use of skills, and you can switch between mage/archer/warrior skills at will
seeing as 95% of "RPGs" are completly linear in terms of story progression by your definition they wouldn't qualify

To forget the RPG term-autism for one moment

Trannies are none of those, they are freaks and disgusting pieces of shit.

is doom not an RTS? you do have to strategize in real time…
is gone home not an adventure? you definitely have an adventure where you come home and go to the attic to find a note left by your lesbian sister.
is five nights at freddies not an action game? do you not run from furries? is running not an action now?
is undertale not a fighting game? do you not fight enemies in it?

jews are also white. do they not have white skin?

Yeah, ordering your own character to attack a stationary enemy and then have a diceroll decide it fails to do so is my favourite part of it.

This is retarded for one real reason. RPGs, specifically the tabletop ones, were originally turn based despite the fact that, you know, it was real life and if they really wanted to they could go LARP. So technology isn't the issue there, and anyone who says it is is a fucking retard who doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about.

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Someone's been playing shitty RPGs.

The only time that happens is when a rare enemy that gives out loads of resources comes up.

Enemies like metal slimes only need you to hit them 1 or 2 times, but have high evade, and Cactuars have huge attacks that do set damage to dissuade the average babby player from fighting them.

But outside of this, RPGs do not give enemies evade chances that high in actual hard fights, it's always something like changing elemental resistance that you have to test before you can make a big hit, or enemies that play by newly introduced "rules" (like say an enemy that has an attack that attacks your health based on your max or current health aka Diablos in FF8 ) in hard fights.

Seriously, I cannot stress this enough, you're a fucking casual.

Your own language outs you as having never played an RPG.

it's not about technology, it's about turn based being dumb as fuck not being as good as action. Of course, it brings a strategy aspect to the game, I like to think chess when I think what makes turn based good, but more than often the turn based combat is just your units standing there and overpowering the enemy with higher stats. Action combat is way more engaging, even when grinding and stats are present, you can overcome the challanges through skill and tactics applied in real time.

Wouldn't be great to have the enemies quickly dodging you for real? And trying to read the dodges and hitting them for real instead of relying on luck and stats?
It was just an example, but the same apply to all other fights, just less extreme.

The rule I stick to is that if I can play the game with paper and pen it's not worth my time. There's turn based and then there's devs not know what a video game is and how it should work on a fundamental level. I mentioned this in another thread and got shit despite nobody actually comprehending what I was saying.

Don't worry user, Bioware agrees with you :^)

No, someone literally used the technology argument. I know that's not what you said, though, so you're not a complete retard. However it seems that Paper Mario is your ideal RPG, yes? The only stats that increase as you play are HP (to take more hits before healing), FP (to do more optional skills before healing), and BP (to give yourself abilities and other bonuses) all while increasing strength based on progression rather than level. In addition, the action commands add the ability to dodge and hit harder using your skill.

Not if you want a game based on strategy. Face it, you're a casual who can't go outside his comfort zone, Action RPGs PALE in comparison to RPGs on the strategy angle, you can't just throw away an entire enjoyed genre because you can't handle it, it's retarded and childish.

Also this game did that where you could dodge enemy spells, but it didn't do well because the rest of it was bare and unfinished and the battle system was basic in that all your spells did was damage with no other facets like resistance or the like, it was all about area targeting.

It was a good feature that could use polish in another game, so make it yourself.

Valid point. My problem isn't dice roll combat resolution, turn based combat is just fucking boring and random encounters are mindless filler

I don't doubt it.
And yeah, Paper Mario was really cool.
And no, I didn't like Super Paper Mario more than it. I think mostly because the formula was already solid, it was dumb to change it in a sequel. But I remember back in the day wishing that Paper Mario was real time, kinda like Super later bacame but not 2D.

Alrighty then.
But in reality, all turn based does is remove all other aspects of combat but strategy. It's alright if you want the anemy to sit on their butts waiting for you to plan your optimal attack, but I'd rather have the whole package.

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But you play the role of Zelda, the titular character.

That is LITERALLY THE POINT. A mixed RPG does strategy and combat badly because they don't mix. You either play chess or tennis, not both. One's reflex based, the other's strategy based.

In an Action RPG the extent of strategy is what your equpiment/spell/etc setup is, but when it comes to the battle, it's all reflex, not strategy.

All you want is basically brainless games that require reflex because you can't wrap your mind around actually THINKING to win. A person like you can't even play cards without getting bored, i bet.

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A doughnut is not a nut made out of dough.
A watershed is not a shed made out of water.
A timepiece is not a piece of time.

Roleplaying has a meaning all its own, and it's what I enunciated before: making meaningful, permanent choices in gameplay and narrative that align with a player-created character (which can also be just a self-insert character, if you're lazy or unimaginative).
And yes, Morrowind has permanent choices. You can't change your birthsign or your major or minor skills.

No, one uses hands, the other uses bladed weapons.

Summed it up perfectly, this is why I can't stand gameplay-fag's shitting on turn-based isometric, they can't seem to conceive of anything else that 100% pure action input. Abstract strategic gameplay/RNG is just as thrilling as twitch shooting.

Nigger, even in non-RPG's, the actions you make tell a definite story. The difference is that RPG's invariably have elements that are intentionally interpretable as something that can naturally occur in a story, such as a City or a Bandit as opposed to a Coin or a Powerup.

When you start a battle in Mount & Blade, that's a player-driven narrative. It happens in the story, you didn't make that shit up. All your actions add up to a story in Mount & Blade, in fact, they're supposed to, because that's what an RPG is about. More on that below before you preemptively start greentexting this line.
Except I didn't. I stated why story makes it more important. It makes the player act accordingly to the writing, and makes him realize it's more applicable outside of just the rules that the game will write down in a message box for you.
Except most C&C prompts are driven by story. Again, this is different from any other genre like FPS or Platformer where casuals will say, "Oh, but I can't just play this level for no reason! There has to be a story!"
Choice and Consequence inherently begs for a plot motivation, unless you just like being held by the hand and randomly asked which outcome between two choices you want.
Tell that to Legionfags.
Except we're mostly on the same page about what constitutes an RPG. I never said RPG's without story elements aren't RPG's. I just said that they're shit and not worth playing.

I don't think you even understand what the disagreement is here. I'll be glad to call some generic ass DOS Dungeon Crawler an RPG if it has mechanical abstraction, gameplay centered around character development, and necessitates different characters for different approaches. But I'd just call it a shit RPG.

(1/2)

(2/2)
Why? Why would you want to develop a character's attributes? That's a genuine question. See, while I never said that all RPG's HAVE to have a way to express a story or they're not RPG's, they do all need a way to at least abstract the events into a story or they're not really RPG's. The whole concept of RPG's being made to abstract events into a story dates all the way back to before they even video games, when people would just sit down at a table and narrate the events of what happening and what their character was doing.

The reason why RPG's have character development and leveling up as opposed to just making a damn action game is really simple. In the context of a believable story, a random guy who just walked out of town cannot kill a Dragon. But, if he trains hard enough and works his way up to a high level, he can. This is an inherent story abstraction that actually NEEDS to exist to make an RPG not a waste of time.

Think about it, what's the point in playing a game where the objective is just to make it easier to play the game? You killed 200 spiders, great, so now you're eligible to take on a skeleton, which has the same tactics as a spider, but they just have higher health. If it weren't for the fact that it's a genre that's meant to be abstract, this would be an arbitrary restriction. Why not just let the player kill everything with his current gear and stats? Hell, this question is begged even more in RPG's with linear progression and no classes (i.e. most JRPGS)

In conclusion, every RPG ever made tells a story, whether it's abstract(Pokemon, Dungeon Crawlers), intricate(Most deep lore RPG's), or dynamic(Choice and Consequence RPG's), The main element separating this from other genres that inherently tell stories of people jumping across the sewers is that RPG's were designed to tell a story, hence the abstraction and restrictions based on character qualities. There is no reason to play an RPG for the gameplay alone, considering that from a video game perspective, most of them are just Cookie Clicker clones or Action Games where you can't beat something until you've grinded enough. But from a story-telling perspective, even a boring dungeon crawler will tell the story of a party of 3 people entering a cave and becoming strong enough to take on a fucking God.

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Watershed
>"line separating waters flowing into different rivers," 1803, from water (n.1) + shed in a topographical sense of "ridge of high ground between two valleys or lower ground, a divide," (etymonline.com/index.php?term=watershed&allowed_in_frame=0)
Timepiece
>from Old French piece "piece, bit portion; item; coin" (12c.) (etymonline.com/index.php?term=piece&allowed_in_frame=0)
Doughnut
Morrowind
neither can you change your hair color. All these things have a negligible effect on gameplay. Wowow I can summon a shitty ghost once a day and level these skills slightly faster = no change to actual gameplay

Go play under the sign of the Atronach and tell me how negligible the effect is.

Wrong, HnS refers to what would be RPGs if they didn't skimp on the roleplaying aspects in favour of heavy focus on killing enemies en masse, gathering loot, and progressing your character's stats and skills.

E.g. Diablo and all games that retards call "Diablo-likes" and ones with "Diablo-inspired systems"

Beat'em up is a genre where you advance from room or scene to another, get locked into battle, and beat the enemies up to advance. Weapon of choice is inconsequential.

zelda was considered an adventure game at the same time point and click PC games were considered adventure. also indiana jones on atari was considered adventure.

adventure is a broad term, and honestly fits a game like zelda better (IMO) than a point and click game because zelda is literally a more advanced atari adventure.

but zelda has since become an "action adventure". because they dont know what else to call point and click adventures… because not all are strictly point and click.

Wouldn't that make you the nigger?

with sign of the atronach you still use mana potions just like every other mage. (Or do you prefer the realism of sleeping 72 hours in the middle of a dungeon still crawling with baddies?)

Fuck. I didn't know DOOM was an RPG. Thank you for enlightening me, user.

I'm really tired of arguing sementics for genres. To this day Holla Forums will never reach a compromise on Rouge-like.

If you don't want to actually play a game, sure. Sounds like you're letting subjective taste influence objective classifications of games.

I don't know, maybe because that's the goal of the game? Do you need some involved narrative to clear lines in Tetris? Do you need a reason to beat up guys in Kung-Fu Master?
So because a GAME has no story (aka not a gameplay element), it stops being one type of GAME. That makes sense.
No, the only reason for abstracting events into a story was to serve as a backdrop for a game. You can (and I have) played tabletop games without needing or caring for a story, just doing some dungeon crawling.
You must have played some really shitty RPGs. You're also again defaulting to combat interactions being the only gameplay element worth noting, when in RPGs it's just another type of interaction that test the player's ability to properly build characters.+
The only reason they have a story, or why any game has a story, is for presentation and nothing more. Things would look bland and sterile without anything dressing it (not to mention it would be terribly hard to market) and only those completely interested in gameplay would care about the games as it honestly should but that's not a good enough market to cater to. Story, art style, music, all these things are superficial and shouldn't hold any bearing on classification of games. For especially simple games like Tetris, Chess, or Pong, they're not necessary, as they're easier to get invested in.
You… you really don't understand the gameplay of RPGs. Like at all.
If progression were completely linear you'd be able to get by without ever configuring weapon/armor builds, managing character resources, or buying new spells. Can you say this is true for those JRPGs? As an aside, picking your class at the beginning of the game isn't terribly more non-linear than having a set character, it could very well just introduce more than one path for progression equally linear.

You really seem to have it in your head that RPGs are somehow this special game genre that supersedes all other genres for games, when in reality it's just another classification informed by a specific kind of mechanical design like every other game genre.

Excellent post.

fall in a well and die

Sorry I'm tired and drunk. It's been a long day and rogue has always been a vice word for me.

Where the fuck did I say the actual game doesn't matter?

All I fucking said was that the writing matters just as much as gameplay. If the writing isn't at least acceptable for the characters or the story, then there's no reason to care about either. That has nothing to do with the actual gameplay not mattering.

That sounds more like a personal problem of not being engaged enough with then game itself. Do you need to care about the writing in action games too?

It's a good thing Holla Forums doesn't need to, because there's the as-official-as-a-fucking-video-game-genre-could-or-needs-to-be definition known as the Berlin Interpretation of roguelikes.

I was explicitly referring to JRPGs.

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I have bad news for you.

Zelda is an action-RPG. Metroid is an action-adventure. Know the difference.

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To be fair in any of the games that could fall within your implied list of games one could call them all RPGs. You assume the role of Crash and Nathan Drake, for example.

I'm sure there is user.

There is, yes. If you were being sarcastic you're retarded.
roguebasin.com/index.php?title=Berlin_Interpretation

Ironic shitposting is still shitposting.

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OPs love of cocks.

I don't think you understand what semantic arguments are. I could care less either way but the sheer amount of elitist term officials autism that's generated when you use either is laughable.

I don't see how what changes what I've said.

Oh, by the way

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He's even a political (((science))) major. HEH.

In an adventure game, the player advances by finding and using items, both as "keys" for puzzles but also for increasing the player's abilities; i.e. heart containers, power bracelet, etc.

RPGs primarily advance the player's abilities through experience points and levels, often with a great variety of stats such as Strength, Agility, Fighting Power, Magic, etc.

Zelda games are action adventure, the only exception is Zelda II, which is action adventure RPG.

The only two arguments they have are "muh story" and "muh unleveled map". New Vegas does nothing better than Fallout 3, both are utter garbage.

Sounds crazy to me.

Or, because the only reason to have the restrictions you do in an RPG is to serve to limit character actions, and the only reason you'd want to limit character actions is to tell an abstracted believable story?
Sounds like a boring session. Most people doing tabletop sessions don't even treat it as a game in the traditional sense.

No, because most of the RPG's I play are story-oriented and let you impact the world or the story arc.
Combat and leveling up your stats are the main mechanics that ALL RPG's inherently share. Dialogue is not a gameplay mechanic, and is tied to: You guessed it, story.

Wrong. Fallout 1 was made with the sole intention of exploring the ethics of a post-nuclear wasteland with choice & consequences and certain character types. As did many other CRPG's and Choice and Consequence RPG's have similar motivations of using RPG mechanics to explore the possibilities in a world they wrote.

I'm not sure you understand how they play mechanically. A typical turn based RPG has literally the same mechanical substance as Cookie Clicker. You click enough times, you get to make cookies faster. You make cookies faster, you get to make even more cookies faster with a branch of upgrades you can allocate yourself. They wouldn't be worth playing if it weren't such a proper way to abstract the combat outside of YOUR skill, and instead into your CHARACTER's skill. If RPG's are such a good VIDEO GAME genre and not story then why do you think it puts emphasis on Character Skill as opposed to Player Skill?

I'm referring to games where you play as a premade character and you can't choose which stats you upgrade. They just all level up, and you also can't pick a class. They sometimes compensate for this by having party members with different stats, but I think it's kinda lame.

It's an evolution of a hobby that never had video games in mind, are you retarded?

You don't level your character in Crash Bandicoot. You get new moves by beating a boss in Crash 3, but that's hardly the same thing as increasing stats like health or damage output or whatever.

that eye divine cybermancy is anything more than a shitty source mod

We're talking about VIDEO GAMES. Their classifications are based on their gameplay. And if it were based on story, then literally any kind of game could be an RPG, which is fucking retarded.
Or maybe because it's a game, you fuckwit. Games are require rules and limitations to function.
No, it's not. The dialogue exists as information in the game and the story is only there to dress up that information in a context that exists outside of the mechanical interactions in the game. That dialogue can exist to portray the information only relevant to the game and any choices that would have an affect on that game world/state.
And those choices & consequences, like with dialogue, are based on game mechanics and only dressed up by story to contextualize.
You fucking moron. The player's skill that the game tests is their ability to manage their character's skill (and abilities, equipment, etc). That's what I've been saying the whole time - that is the design that defines RPGs. You're putting so much emphasis on the specific interactions in RPGs when the primary mechanics in an RPG are based on character progression.
No, it's just another game some nerds made out of their old strategy game pieces. Stop treating it like anything other than that.

Wait, hold on a second, Aragami isn't a stealth game? I was looking forwards to playing that.

BO2 is legitimately more of an RPG than many games that retards refer to as RPGs, if that counts.
"RPGs" that CODBLOPS2 is more of an RPG than:

Of course it's still a terrible game but that isn't the point here.

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What? Persona 5 just came out in Japan back in September and will release stateside next spring. Unless you meant Persona 4 which still makes no sense.

I get it user. It's kinda like the difference between MTGO and Hearthstone.
Hearthstone takes advantage of being a vidya game by using mechanics that could never work if you tried to make proxy cards and play IRL.
Whereas MTGO has to be consistent with paper Magic; making it, essentially, a very user friendly Excel spread sheet.

I guess a concise way to put it would be: They have the technology so why don't they use it?

Yea, P4 or whatever. My mistake.

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You need to die user. I'm serious, it's for your own good. You need to drink a gallon of gasoline and then light up a cig.
Please user, we're counting on your to get the fuck blown up.

The most cancerous meme of meme of them all:
>esports

>not wrong at all

Linux.

Yes, about ROLE PLAYING games. Where you do: Surprise, role play!
These mechanics would be completely arbitrary were they not implemented for role playing.
Except that nearly 99% of the dialogue in most RPG's are pertained to characters, which is a story element btw. + About half of it is world-building in later CRPG's.
Except for the Role Playing Games that are meant to show how your ROLE PLAYS in a given written setting. Like Fallout, which I blatantly mentioned was made just to tell a story
The only player skill that the RPG genre inherently has is allocating his stats. You are right about that. Except there are very few RPG's outside of the niche autistic depths of DOS games that have the mechanical complexity to make this pose much of a challenge. Most RPG's simply involve choosing a few key stats and investing into those every time they level up. Hell, this challenge is completely GONE if you just select a class in some RPG's. Are you sure you've actually played more than 2 RPG's in your lifetime?
Most people who played tabletop RPG's didn't treat it like a strategy game. They just roleplayed. That's why it's called a ROLE PLAYING game, you autist.

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The funny thing is you're only proving my point.

And all that playing pretend really has no bearing on the actual games now, does it. Not unless it's being used to disguise choices within the game. However, "role playing" does have a context withing the language of games - role playing games is the name a game genre, thus referring to a specific design that games may follow, one which I previously described. Everything not pertaining to that design is just fluff - cosmetic and not relevant to the classification of games.
New flash: all game mechanics, and in turn all game designs, are arbitrary. There's literally no reason for rules to exist in a game other than for it being the choice of the design of the creators decided on. Game genres are used to similarities in those arbitrary designs.
If the dialogue with those characters contain information regarding the game state, other objects within the game, or certain objectives, then it is most certainly a game element. Otherwise, it's just cosmetic, and not actually part of the game but rather its presentation.
That's nice and all but they're still making games and are thus subject to the classification of games, regardless of intention during creation. I mean do you honestly think that because Bioware/EA calls Mass Effect 3 an RPG that it truly is one?
>The only player skill that the RPG genre inherently has is allocating his stats
If we're going this route, why not include managing abilities, party members, relations with characters, equipment and other resources…
These are all just specific mechanical implementations, not the actual design of the game which determines its genre. There are plenty of games with shooting mechanics, but are all of them shooters? Is every game with combat an action game? A game's individual interactions or mechanics are not what classifies it, but rather the design those mechanics adhere to.
He says having previously posted Morrowind, dude sex, Fallout…
Yes because clearly the only choice in RPG gameplay is just your character's base attributes.
I ask again: what fucking RPGs are you playing?
With your gross reductionist view of RPG gameplay I have to ask you the same question. Either that or you're mechanically illiterate.
Maybe because it wasn't a strategy game. I mean many people don't treat DMC as a third-person shooter (unless you're DSP).
And the "roleplaying" that occurs outside of the game's design has literally no bearing on the game. Yet if it is included in the classification of games, then pretty much every game could potentially be a role playing game.

(cont.)

I realize I probably shouldn't ask "what RPGs are you playing?" but rather "How do you actually those RPGs are actually played?"
Another question to illustrate this point: Is Far Cry 4 an RPG? I can allocate stats in Far Cry 4, there's quite a bit of story and world-building inside, and some branching paths made with decisions related to the story. It's got pretty much most of what you've described is essential to being an RPG, no?

I feel like you're having trouble divorcing the elements or mechanics or a game with the story set up to present it. If there is a single choice or action done in a game that has an affect on the game's state, other elements in the game, or the player's progression in the game, then it's a gameplay element, plain and simple. You can wrap it up in whatever lore, plot, backstory, characterization, etc that you want but that doesn't change a thing. Any other element of a game that does not affect the actual play of the game - story, music, art style, graphical fidelity, etc - is cosmetic, just for presentation, and thus has no bearing on a game's classification. Things like companion side quests in KotOR that reward with with extra resources, joining a guild/faction in Morrowind and thus changing disposition of other characters and willingness to divulge information or resources, navigating dialogue trees and passing dialogue skill checks in Fallout to enact some change with character relations, state in the world, social standing, etc. - these are all elements or choices that, while presented as part of a story or narrative, are still part of the actual game. In Morrowind being a member of the House Telvanni will greatly reduce disposition of Mages Guild members. The existing story says that it's because the guilds are enemies due to conflicting ideals over the use of magical arts. However, let's say we have it changed so that it's because the Telvanni like their bread butter-side up and the Mage Guild likes their bread butter-side down. Does the game itself change? No, there is no consequence to the gameplay with such a change, though now the story surrounding it now starts to resemble The Butter Battle Book.

This autist is technically correct. The worst kind of correct. So fuck him.

hella f*ckin epic

You meant to shitpost in another thread I'm sure.

sage negated, redditor

Tbh I'd play an RPG based on the Butter Battle Book.

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But you play the role of zelda, why isn't it an RPG?

Come sit on my lap, princess, and I'll tell you

But you don't have a lap

What's wrong with owlboy other than it being easy?

"Company of Heroes is good"

Looks like a tumblr game to me.

It can't be a tumblr game, it has gameplay.
Gameplay and tumblr are impossible to have together, look at crypt of the necrodancer. They tried to add tumblr in and it didn't work.

It may have gameplay, but it's still trash.
About necrodancer thing I didn't hear.

That isn't tumblr, it's obviously a page from the wind waker or level-5 shit. It's still shit art choice but red noses don't mean tumblr.
yeah you can nigga

Also about the necrodancer they added a tumblr gendered character, bolt, but nobody cares because you'd have to read the post they made about it to figure out in the first place

Owlboy was made since tumbl existed, stop dragging zelda into this.
Also on your pic only some characters have tumblr noses, good luck finding at least one from owlboy who doesn't.

So now the same exact artstyle is completely offlimits because some shit blog website exists? Are you fucking retarded?

That art style is atrocious.

It is

Actually, Owlboy wasn't made during the tumblr current year. It's been in development for 9 years and always had the same artstyle and asthetic. That doesn't mean the game couldn't be touched by tumblr, but a tumblr nose this game isn't.
Hell, tumblr would hate this game because of it's beginning and ending being to triggering for them.

The label is tumblr nose, it doesn't matter what the inspiration is. That style of drawing noses is terrible to look at.

I agree, but just being inspired by a shitty way to draw noses doesn't make a game tumblr.

>SOULS LIKE

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Source? I tried looking up the username but their twatter feed is in gookspeak.

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Even ignoring that, the actual games that advertise them as 'soulslike' are all cancer and it's a cancerous fad

all games are roleplaying

I like a level of linearity. The new Zelda looks trash compared to more focused titles like MM.

But Souls's only "unique" element is how in integrates multiplayer. Otherwise, it's just an action-rpg that plays well and has nice levels (for the most part). If one facet is enough to define a sub-genre, then we'd have too many "-likes" to count.

Jews aren't any race in specific since they aren't an ethnic group, although their religious doctrine makes sure some genes stick since only jewish women can make more jews although most of them are white
What really differs them is their culture

Explain

Not to mention it has an elf using swords and magic.

Meme magic.

I have a coworker who, I shit you not, calls the old Resident Evil games "RPG's"

I have explained why it is not an RPG and that is part of a genre called "survival horror"

The reason this is a thing is you can't control language and ALL words are doomed to obtain altered meaning or strange new use cases over time. At best you can get a small group of people to agree on a specific usage of a term, but you will never get a society on the same page through unnatural language prescription means. The rape of "RPG" has only begun. I can easily imagine a scenario where VR massively more popular and every game that allows you to play from the perspective of something will be called "role playing".

I honestly don't understand where the meme comes from; zelda has always been the most quintessential RPG

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you increase your health by collecting wumpa fruit

Microsoft Windows

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Big open worlds themselves arent the problem, its when there nothing of interest in them to do is the problem.

Rouge like isn't really ok either because most self proclaimed rouge likes aren't anything like rouge

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Jews aren't white, they just have light skin. They're parasites who function through mimicry.

back to Holla Forums

not a game

Why would you roleplay yourself, nigger?

back to /reddit/

Wrong board buddy.

vn are not vidya

upgrading your trade skill and trading with the merchant is gameplay, and killing him and taking his stuff is gameplay, even leaving him alive and stealing his things in secret is gameplay, but deciding to is not.
I can plan out a route for dark souls deciding who to kill and who to spare, who to rescue and who to ignore, what weapon to use and what stats ect before I turn the game on, those decisions are not gameplay.

no you dont

only if the player is

how many combat options does pokemon have? 4 moves, swapping between 6 pokemon, and using items on them
compare to dark souls where not even getting into movement options you can swap between up to 4 weapons each with 8 moves, and the difference between moves really matters
pokemon gives you 24 options in battle
dark souls grants you 32 not counting movement or magic.

NIG ALERT

Fuck off nigger.

>>>/tumblr/

you dont have to be pol to be redpilled on jews

there's absolutely no decisions in geralt's character development whatsoever. He is always the same

in that sense even a choose-your-own-adventure book is an RPG