How does it makes you feel that UN pushing Japan to ban lolis, before Olympics being held?

How does it makes you feel that UN pushing Japan to ban lolis, before Olympics being held?

The UN needs fuck off and focus on real problems not victimless things. Child marriage in the middle east you can literally marry a baby in a few countries.

They wont be successful, but it is ridiculous.

Feels good tbh. Pedophilia should be curbed wherever.

Also, this is the topic I am very concerned about because it's perhaps the biggest threat to free expression that actually exists.

2 days ago I read the transcripts of the UK parliament debate when they were banning loli. The arguments were stupid and anecdotal, and the reasons given were thought-crimey. It enraged me.

It's a serious problem when people start baninng drawings in the name of protecting children. Their arguments are roughly:

1. loli can be used to show to children who are familiar with cartoons in order to groom them
2. loli is frequently found on comptuers of people with actual CP
3. it "changes attitudes" towards children, meaning that people may move on to molesting children
4. an actual CP image can be manipulated into something which can be claimed to be merely CGI by the defendant, meaning that he can't be prosecuted

As far as I'm concerned, these arguments are bunk (I won't go into it now, I don't have time).

Shame on people for restricting free expression without evidence. Pre-crime and thought-crime should not be tolerated in society.

The US courts had enough sense to see that the law is ridiculous and without evidence.

I am a citizen of a country in which there is no constitutional right to free expression, so it is banned. It is a shame we cannot do anything about it.

The BBC had the shame to publish an article titled "Why hasn't Japan banned Child Porn comics yet?"

I find their attitude to freedom disgusting.

This happens.
Wouldn't surprise me if this were common. A guy I know once asked me to repair his PC and when looking through the hard drive for a utility like Hardinfo to look through his hardware I found not only loli, but also actual CP. It's anecdotal, but I wouldn't doubt that a lot of people with loli also have CP.
Once again, if things go from loli to CP, you know that people with CP may potentially want to act on those urges with real kids. In fact, most pedos start out with CP and then go on to actually abusing kids.
The only really weird one.

So glad theyre focusing on the important issues

…you realize that it's a lot easier to acquire image/video files over the internet than it is to victimize someone directly, right? The progression from CP -> molestation or indeed loli -> CP -> molestation doesn't imply that someone was converted to pedophilia. Someone who was already a pedo would have the easiest time finding loli, a harder time finding CP, and a much harder time molesting a kid. You're on the edge of the post-hoc fallacy here.

...

Also, loli when combined with therapy is possibly an effective substitute that can curb a pedo's urges and prevent actual molestation. This kind of shit is entirely "we're on a righteous crusade!" with less than zero thought toward the consequences.

sage for doublepost

Your point?

Unless you're implying people can only be born predestined to be pedophiles, no. Sexuality is very much a behavioral thing.

Once again, if you accept this you already see things in terms of 'thresholds' where every step serves as a more intense cork to quell the urge to fuck kids.


Possibly the only thing I agree with you on, but then I also doubt the kind of behavioral therapy that already exists is virtually useless in this. It reduces the therapy to one of good boy, bad boy counseling which never fully makes one realize that pedophilia is more than just a taboo, but ethically fucked up. An individual may never stop being attracted to kids, but this doesn't mean we should torment them for their entire life with this more than the fact that their urges will never be accepted already does.

Grooming children is already an offence under the law, no matter what material that you use. A child can be more easily groomed with "photorealistic" images (depends if you count that as loli or not). Furthermore, it's something which isn't proven to happen. You can also groom children with "adult" porn, or no porn at all. If this is an argument, there would be no stopping what things must be banned in the name of preventing children from being groomed.

Unless the child is familiar with the extremely unrealistic and contorted forms of the characters in manga, it won't be as effective for grooming. Besides, this is an effect not directly related to whether loli is legal or not. If you're willing to break the law to groom a child, you bet you're willing to break it to show them loli or even CP.

I'm sure they also have adult porn, too. Possessing CP is a separate offence. Correlation does not imply causation. There's no link between having loli and CP. I, and people whom I know personally and have talked to online, anecdotally again, say that they have no attraction to children, and find them disgusting - even after years of consuming the material.

It is no surprise that people with acutal attractions to children have loli, too. It would make sense. The inverse, that people who are attracted to loli also have CP, isn't nearly as well established.


The idea that we ought to make something illegal because it changes how someone thinks or appreciates things in life is thought crime, and to an extent pre-crime. We're making having a certain mindset a criminal offence. Changing attitudes also does not make the leap to child abuse or even consuming CP necessarily. This ties in with the point about people who hate CP but like loli.


Such a manipulation is already illegal. But let's suppose that the manipulation is good enough so that it can't be identified as actual CP any more by the people who want CP. This means that merely photorealistic art would be good enough, as the risk of producing CP with actual kids is too high and unneccesary. Thus, this can be an argument *for* loli. If loli is just as good as the real thing, there would be no reason to harm children.

When possession of CP and loli carry similar penalties, there would be no reason for those who are into actual children to "stay" on loli, as either way they're breaking the law. So the supposition that people who are into loli are also into CP falls on its face when the penalties are the same. If your argument is right, that people can easily move from loli to CP, making loli illegal could lead to more demand for CP.


I agree.

There are countries even in fucking EU in which "just watching" actual CP isn't crime. And they are trying to push japan to ban lolis. I can't imagine this will pass.

Retarded TBH.

Just as retarded when the UN meddled with the discussion around Zwarte Piet and send a americanised black person to give their personal judgement on a non-american culture.

Don't they have better things to do? Like stopping genital mutilation, child brides, child soldiers, war, exploitation.

Oh wait no, the UN is a fucking stupid porky tool.

So why don't pedos just stop being pedos and adopt a less risky paraphilia? Why don't gays who live in Saudi Arabia turn straight to avoid being beheaded? Come on dude.

Uh, no. The availability of various outlets for these people's urges is going to affect the order they come across them. It's not a matter of thresholds. It's a matter of probability. It's the same as how if I'm playing Pokemon, I'm probably going to get the common pokemons before I get the rare ones. I have come across shitloads of loli pics because I browse imageboards. I've been unfortunate enough to see a handful of CP images, and I've never molested anybody. I came across loli (and shota) long before I ever saw any CP, because there was so much more of it. How about you take your presuppositions and shove them all the way up your asshole.

Yeah, and it's because there are a lot of false assumptions built into it. Addressing these problems is important though because unless and until we can prevent pedophilia, ameliorating its effects is the best thing to do to keep children from getting raped.

Yeah, moralism is cancer but it's especially damaging in any fields related to psychology. We're slowly moving in this direction at least, given how much neuroscience is revealing how spooky independence and free will are.

I'm pretty sure it's not a crime in the US, just transmitting or possessing it (which is still retarded because 16-year-olds will send nudes to each other and become guilty of child pornography). I know there's some sort of clause where you're not considered guilty if you notify authorities. Otherwise you could become a felon for checking your twitter notifications if someone sent you CP.


The UN actively participates in human rights abuses regularly. They ought to be Nuremberg'd.

For the amount of time I've been on the web and the kind of shit sites I go, im surprised I can still count them on one hand.

That or I actively suppressed any memory of them.

Because fetishes are incredibly operative, and potentially almost unchangable. Once again, I'm saying that learning a fetish is largely behavioral. Expose people to loli and they are more likely to develop a fetish for loli and, by extension, the 'real' symbolic equivalent of actual little kids. There's a reason Japan consumes the most loli porn in the world, and it's not muh gook genes or muh genetically inherited (symbolic) pedophilia. It's very much a sociocultural thing.

lol ok.

Yeah, like how loli is common and CP is rare, but it's all part of the same fetish microverse (prepubescent sexually explicit material) which, even if it has different fields, is intertwined.

Trying so hard not to shit all over you, but goddamn is it hard when you try to place the pedophile subject's fetishes as both behavioral when you defend its coming into being as a pedophile, but neurological when suggesting cause and treatment.

Guess I'll respectfully peace out now. Later.

Because its one of the only places where its allowed. Thats like saying people in europe are all conditions to be gay because being gay is more acceptable and so the faggots watch more gay porn.

Your reasoning is retarded, you're just enabling desires that already existing. Loli's aren't going to turn people into pedos any less than GTA turns people into mass murderers or Serbian.

not the guy you responded too btw

Not who you're replying to, but loli is also legal in the US, but there isn't much coming out of the US or even much being consumed there as far as I know.

I don't know if it's because of obscenity laws or if there are restrictions on selling it, or due to the fact that various states unconstitutionally have laws against it.

I've been very fortunate to never see anything too extreme. None of the stuff I've seen looked like it was traumatic to the kids in the moment, but the implication of what would follow was bad enough. If I saw that shit I just reported it and got out. I get the impression it usually comes in sets where it ramps up.

As "tame" as the shit I saw was, it's fucking burned into my memory.


Anecdotal evidence does not carry more weight than probability.

This does nothing to address what I said.

I never suggested it comes into being behaviorally. You're too much of a retard not to project your belief onto other people. Even if it is behaviorally learned, behavior is an emergent property of material (which is to say neuroscience has bearing on it). Good riddance, idealist.

Im pretty sure most of the western world, if not outright illegal, places it in a legal greyzone where they can simply fuck you over if they decide to.

I try not to remember, its working out pretty ok so far.

Ive spoken with a girl who was molested as a kid and told me she was pro lolicon because she thought it might not have happened if the guy had some loli to fap to.

The US is also culturally very different to Japan when it comes to sex. I'm not going to get reductive by trying to explain the differences in a post here.

There was a case of a 15 or16 year old male being charged with child porn production for taking a nude selfie.

Get the fuck back to Reddit. You are not welcome here.

Free speech hating scum like you don't belong here, or on any imageboard.

Anyone here who actually gives a fuck about freedom needs to start aggressively shouting down assholes like this guy. It's utterly disgusting that these people are allowed to poison the world with your fascist bullshit. How fucking dare you call yourself a progressive?

Also:

hi Holla Forums

Oh I know. Lots of judges who have a hardon for punishing """"""vices"""""" in the US.


Age of consent is kind of retarded. People mature at wildly different rates, mostly as a product of environment. We should view sexual relationships in the context of relative power of the parties involved, not something like age.

Hi reddit

Jezus fuck

The age of constent exists to avoid having a 15 year old fuck a 40 year old (16y/o with 40 is fine though), nobody gives a shit about that law if it's two people of the same age (or less than around 3 years from each other)

Makes me want to die.

Is this a serious statement? If so, it's so fucking dumb it's hard to even know where to start with it.

Eat a gun. Holla Forums would have a field day exploring all the ways your genetic code is a blight on this planet.

You too. Not so much for this statement, but more for generally being the worst poster on this board.

I'm just saying how the law works.

meant in reply to

I don't disagree.

That also makes me the most important poster on this board

You're a special kind of stupid, aren't you?

Yes, forcing pedophiles to seek out real CP because all of the fictional drawings have been banned will sure help save those kids! Good work UN!

The authoritarian right is boiling up all over the place, ranging from Putin's assasination of dissident journalists to Trump's plans to prosecute anyone who says mean things about him (enabled, of course, by Obama's expansion of presidential powers), and China is introducing Literally Psychopass, but the biggest threat to free speech is someone butthurt about cartoon kiddies.

You have some kind of fucked up priorities, bud.

The fact there is even a single person on Holla Forums supporting censorship is why you won't get my support in your revolution. I see zero evidence that whatever post-revolutionary government-in-everything-but-name you installed would actually make the world a better place. You'd just purge all the "undesirables" and then be left twiddling your thumbs wondering why the world hasn't magically fixed itself now that the flags have a hammer and sickle on them.

I support communism as a goal, but I think the capitalists actually have a better chance of getting us there than the clusterfuck of tankies and other assorted idiots here.

I think that there are basic freedoms which are being taken away, and perhaps the most basic threat to freedom of expression is not being allowed to make certain drawings.

Making a law against criticising the state is on the same or a similar level.

Yes, there are other problems in the world. And those are bad, too. But a violation of the right to express yourself, *even in private*, and to be stopped from accessing such expressions in any form is authoritarian.

Just as you criticise the rise of the authoritarian right, I have every bit the same right to criticise the censorship happening in the UK.

I don't care about the cartoons. I care about the freedoms that are taken away when they are banned. It seems that you do too, I really don't see your point. Saying that there are bigger problems elsewhere does not nullify the impact of what was previously considered a liberal democracy introducing such censorship with 10 minutes of debate by parliamentarians with anecdotal evidence.

It's a symptom of a much bigger problem, and the examples you named are the same.

It's also worth remembering that things like loli drawings are often used as the thin end of the wedge to push through authoritarian laws which can later be used against political activists and revolutionaries.
Just look at all the counter-terror laws. They were brought in as a tool to use against mass-murdering terrorists, but they ended up being used to spy on journalists and arrest peaceful protesters. The censorship mechanisms created in the UK to block child porn are now being expanded to block pirate sites and other kinds of digital protest.

If you don't support free speech for speech you find distasteful, you might as well not support it at all. Once you throw away your rights, you don't get to pick and choose how the government decide to abuse you.

I for once completely support lolis.

That's the thing. People, especially in parliament, don't believe free speech ought to be protected. The Lib Dems might do a little. But they won't defend it because there's no pressure to.

In the transcripts about banning loli porn, one (liberal democrat) MP mentioned that there is no harm done by a man sitting in his house drawing these pictures. Soon, a conservative MP replied to her and said "Well there's also no harm when people consume cannabis in private". That was the justification against something like the harm principle - that because we already ban things that don't cause harm, we should go a little further and ban this too.

Not having freedoms is the default state for these people. They simply don't care about libertarian concepts upon which the US could even be said to be built on.

I don't want to live in this country any more.


As a humorous (not really) anecdote:
Because this thumbnail is in my image cache, if I were to go to Canada, they could stop me at the border, and scan my laptop, making it come up with that image, and then imprison me. This happened to a user of /r/hentai.

we don't need retards like you anyway

The theory is fine. I just don't trust you to actually follow it.

Pretty much this. This board and the socialist movement in general are full of easily triggered, snarky, entitled, sophist Redditors who fit all of the mainstream media's criticisms of Bernie Sanders supporters to a T and who will gladly turn into little Stalins in order to purge the world of something they've been taught to hate. People like that are to be considered the enemies of freedom no matter what economic policies they espouse.

...

It's Abe, the right-wing prime minister, who's pushing this, you retarded Holla Forumsack.

...

What do you mean the incredibly conservative right winger in charge of Japan is against loli?

Clearly it must be the UN's """cucks""" who are behind this!

To be honest, I was not expecting this. I thought it would be constitutionally protected. But it's not like Abe has any regard or respect for the Japanese constitution anyway.

The things happening in Japan are starting to dissuade me from going there for a job in future.

Keep digging that hole, reds. There are millions of us who won't support you when the time comes if you keep this up.

You mean like showing genitalia or people's faces? Oh wait.

LOL
Japan's working conditions are fucking terrible and so is the culture there.

Aren't these hold-over laws that haven't been challenged as unconstitutional? I didn't think they were new ones made after the establishment of the new constitution. Perhaps there is some nuance I'm missing with regard to what is being published, so that blurring does not constitute a violation.

I am aware of the long hours that people work, but what about the culture are you saying?

I hate it almost as much as I hate the EU

If imperialists take muh Mirai, it'll be time for revolution.

Apparently it's legal in Scotland.
(Source: An /r9k/ user on halfchan was arrested for perving on some adult girls while studying at a Scottish university - they took his computer and found loli, but he didn't get in trouble because Scotland has a different legal system where this apparently doesn't apply.)


The pedo-subset of loli consumers is probably not in the majority, though. The majority are probably only attracted to the abstract idea of an anime girl - but smaller and cuter, not actual children, who're pretty ugly, loud and annoying.

Or basically pic-related.

This does not surprise me. The law was introduced in the CAJA 2009, which is the law of England and Wales. Northern Ireland did a study (in which the reply respondents were big names like the BBC and BBFC, not surprisingly againts loli) and then banned it the year after (if I'm right).

I haven't heard of any such legislation for Scotland. If you're right though, I wouldn't put any faith in it lasting. They're just as spooked over there.

Maybe even them leaving may have made them cherish liberalism. I really wish they did leave.


Is that character a loli in the anime? I don't remember.

s/UN/Shinzo Abe

Source?

The UN also has saudi arabia on its human rights council.
They are a joke.
Japanese have strong hold out culture.

when they go low
we go loli

GLORIOUS BEAUTIFUL ANGELIC 2D LOLI >>>>>>>> DISGUSTING UGLY RUNNY NOSED 3DPD FAT BRATS

Makes me pretty sick tbh

When will the west learn to tolerate love?

interesting info-graph. But meaningless as those countries had very different population sizes.

Plus those societies are all homogeneous.

America is more like the Austrian Empire. Remember how much that was?

i lived in surfers paradise, dealt with every tourist possible.

travelled for a couple years as well and experienced even more tourists including aussie ones.

stereotypes, fat loud and ear piercing accents that always sound out of place. hardly accepting of culture. easily worst tourist
rude, always travel in packs. usually terrible but can spend a lot of money. always idiots
think theyre top shit. feel like kings in every country, loud and usually drunk
top tier banter, condescending tones. fun to watch
respectful, love other cultures, understanding and are one of the best types of tourist
stinky, always wearing embarrassing footwear. women are hairy and usually fat. in shops they LOVE to touch things even without the intent of buying.
rich cocky cunts, cbf to say more. spend money but would rather they stay in their own country. have asian nannys looking after their kids