The most important revelation here is, that no matter who the president is, this shit is being prepared for ages now, and people are gradually groomed and brainwashed to accept and support it.
Honestly the US declares war on China is the day the US ends. They own too much debt and they can't just default on it. I suppose the only way to do this is a permanent war in the South China see doubled with a permanent war in the Middle East to eventually pay off debt made
The stakes would be high enough to shake the west into massive investment.
But to strike at the Chinese economy would be global economic suicide.
Thomas Reed
At last I truly see
Hudson Cook
That's where your wrong kiddo
Ethan Martinez
Heh, that's where you're wrong. Nothing personnel kid.
*puts on aviators*
*climbs in F-22 and flies away*
Bentley Lopez
I mean they can be stupid enough to try but the economic consequences would be immense. I'm trying to think of this from porkies perspective, of why they would go ahead with such a thing
I'm seeing some ways they could or would, but a gigantic number of reasons they wouldn't.
You're thinking of the F-35. The jet that can be easily shot down by China's parallel.
Isaiah Miller
What the say if you owe someone $1,000 they own you but if you owe them $100,000,000 you own them.
Such as? Nobody is going to be paying their debnts, this is why China has been issuing it en masse since the 00s.
Regardless, there won't be open warfare period because of nukes, or until it's revealed that someone has developed technology to consistently shoot down ICBMs.
Dylan Walker
That's actually not how it works. The blowback would be so enormous that China would take down the surrounding Asian markets.
Yen collapse isn't fucking happening on porkies watch simply because of the fact that Yen is what they jump to whenever markets are uncertain.
Stop getting hyped for "its happening", I know you miss old Holla Forums days of 2012 but they've been saying this for longer.
War with China isn't happening.
Isaiah Cook
Given Trump's advisers, it seems that the US is heading towards a direct military confrontation with Iran, with the guise of taking out their nuclear sites. And when that happens:
- Zhang Zhaozhong
I will say that the same thing would have happened under Hillary, though.
You can say goodbye to the US as a developed country if that happens.
Jose Williams
By Yen meant the Yuan/Chinese Yen. Renminbi. That and the Japanese Yen.
You're joking right
Honestly everything is so stupid you could be right but I think there's a fucking limit. China is as much concerned about the market as America is.
Mason Harris
...
Dominic Butler
People said the same thing about the US leaving the gold standard yet they did it anyway. Unless China is willing to risk completely leaving the US-centric world system then in practice it won't be able to put real pressure for the US to pay their debts, which they won't do even in that case.
The return on US bonds is already going null thanks to inflation and it was never particularly remunerative anyway. China invests in US bonds because they don't know what to do with the dollars after they've earned them because their private sector doesn't want them. That problem will continue as long as they do business with the US or with people using the US dollar.
If they ever ask for real repayment on US debt and not token repayment using the printing press, then the US will do to them what Nixon did to Japan, Germany and the rest of the Western world in the 70s–threaten to crash the world economy if US demands aren't met.
It will work too. China didn't tell the US and EU to go tell after the 2008 crisis instead they issue their own trillion dollar bailouts to help pay for the Western mess and loosened their banking regulations to inflate a housing bubble. Now from a debt-load perspective their even worse off then 2008 therefore more fearful of a crash.
The chinese leadership doesn't seem to realize what the US knows that debt is a social construct and not some kind of spooky moral obligation or economic fact of life.
Josiah Sullivan
Thats exactly what I was saying though US owe so much money to China that the US effectively owns China because if the us defaulted china would collapse that is what that quote is saying
Joseph Johnson
Elaborate on it my man.
Aiden Kelly
...
Isaiah Gutierrez
*to go to hell
Elijah Young
And China collapsing does the US?
No I asked if you were joking
Comparing these two is stupid.
What the fuck does the US have to gain about saying fuck it to the Chinese economy. That would mean to tank every economy who has and wants military presence in the South China Sea.
Japan, Korea etc.
Which are also, gigantic markets.
I fucking see no reason. This would be not shooting yourself in the foot, this would be shooting yourself multiple times in the stomach.
China wants to go to war as much as the US wants to go to war with China. That is, they don't.
Leo Bennett
We're fine. Just submit to your A.I. overlords and await singularity. Should only be about 20 years or so of agony until then.
William Taylor
You're forgetting the fact that the americans are dumb
Alexander Ward
I don't understand what you are asking. The US can use the fear of defaulting on the the china debt as leverage for whatever it wants.
Isaiah Morris
Yeah but the porkies aren't.
And then China could use fear of economic collapse and tanking Japan/Korea's economy as retribution which would send markets reeling. It could threaten to dissolve everything after Nixon, and that would send markets reeling.
It could bring back labor to the US, and that's the last thing corporations want.
Tyler Clark
Look on the bright-side. If go to war with them, then we get to bring back manufacturing.
Owen Flores
That's a major reason why we won't go to war with them.
Connor Thomas
Even if we did, they would offshore jobs somewhere else.
Lucas Williams
Yeah most likely. Look all we got left is bunch of gun nuts with no GED and a globally deployed strike force.
Why don't you put yourself in America's shoes for once!
Cooper Reyes
If I was American the last thing I would want is for the US Dollar to plummit because someone decided war with China was a good idea
Kevin Carter
Why are you trying to argue with me, I agree that there wont be a war with China.
Aaron Scott
Well I am an American. I just don't really seem affiliated with this country.
Eli Wilson
Oh, I thought you were, nevermind. I'm just trying to point out that porkie wars aren't happening because they all share the money pool.
Jackson Adams
Porky wars between world powers won't happen again until it is either more profitable to do so or they need to somewhat reset the rate of profit
Ryder Russell
That's why we wait til the next inevitable recession/depression to strike, duh.
Nobody will notice.
Owen Clark
you don't have to payback if the person who landed you money is dead
Jack Barnes
I thought you were Argentine?
Jeremiah Nguyen
You mean J-20. It's even more untested than F-35 and still has issues with the WS-15 engine.
Gavin Nguyen
Just noticed we call our small bases lily pads. Praise Kek!
Mason Robinson
That's the dumbest fucking argument ever because in this analogy the person you're killing is surrounded by your friends who's money evaporates when they die.
Japan, fucking economy would be toast. South Korea, toast. South East Asia toast, toast, toast
Nobody would be willing to do that because it would be an economic catastrophe.
You're telling me porky would go to war to slice open its own stomach, that is literally impossible.
Caleb Evans
The F-35 can't even compete with the Su
Jace Perry
doubtful, she took part of that deal. bombing Iran isn't in the interest of the US in anyway it would be a colosal waste of money. thats a different story for Israel and the UAE.
Easton Thomas
KEK
Parker Hughes
This is just as deluded as the Russian-b8ing tbh.
Henry Smith
I assume you mean Su-35, right? Compete as in what? Maneuverability was never a prime concern for the F-35 development, supermaneuverability is just a Russian meme. Russian radars suck ass (no AESA, shitty electronics, less detectability even though they radiate more power etc.) and stealth capabilities are far less of F-35. Furthermore, one of F-35's main strengths is this whole network-centric warfare thing, one of the key points of it was to act sort of like a spotter for bombers carying standoff cruise missiles, then you have capability of striking land targets with virtually no threat, even without extensive SEAD missions.
Nolan Morris
Trump just shows his hand faster. That's why they didn't want him as President. Giving our enemies time to prepare.
Matthew Sanders
Are you legitimately arguing the F-35 is capable of taking on any other modern fighter head on
That is test positive false
The Pentagon doesn't act because they're the Pentagon, there would have to be economic interest in this in order for it to occur.
That does not happen until the century ends or later.
David Clark
Irrelevant. In most scenarios it is a much more capable platform than all other existing fifth gen fighters, and it is more versatile.
Joseph Smith
No doubt, it's the continuous game of 'power-projection,' so we can chill out China's bill collectors.
Ryan Reed
No, it doesn't.
Jaxon Foster
...
Levi Cox
[citation needed]
Oliver Parker
Oh ok mate, glad you're here to sound the alarm. We have nothing to worry about. Trump isn't a lunatic neo-con plant who wants war with Iran and to agitate China in every way possible. I will be a good little prole and wait for the deep state to resolve geo-strategic crises with peace. Because, that's how they do things as evidenced by: Syria, Nicaragua, Panama, Yemen, Iran, Iraq, Korea, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, China, Angola, Egypt
Noah Lee
It's really not. You're forgetting that it wasn't just about keeping gold around as some idol of the mercantile past in a time where it had become unsuited to mercantile capitalism. Every US dollar according to international law and trade agreements represented 1/35th of an ounce of gold. What that means is foreign capitalists around the world traded in gold and other stronger hard currencies in for US dollars and what they received in return was a piece of paper that was basically an IOU, a debt, that said they could turn it in for gold at any time.
Japan and Germany traded in massive amounts of gold that they earned from their economic miracles to the US only to have the US default on its obligations. Same thing happened to the rest of Europe whether it came through sending their bullion to the US as refugee capital during WWII or through legitimate trade. Only DeGaulle had the balls to trade US dollars for gold and it actually broke the London gold pool which was where the US asked its allies to help finance the dollar by pooling all their gold to uphold the dollar. They helped stabilize the dollar using their bullion when it was the US that was in debt to them!
The US limitations of convertibility and final removal of the gold standard in 1973 is exactly identical to the foreign debt issue of today, its just dressed up in a monetarist debate. What Nixon did by restricting convertibility and finally killing the standard was basically say "we're not going to honor our debt obligations. If you want we will pay you with paper money from a printing press we own with the sole backing being 'trust'"
Nobody would be willing to do that because it would be an economic catastrophe. Their betting on the fact that the ruling class in these countries are more terrified of recession and domestic upheaval then the ruling class in the US. The reason why these countries don't call America's bluff is that they are, in fact, right. A global recession would hurt the East Asian economies more then it hurts America because the US foreign trade makes up less of a percentage of its total trade then in European and can fallback on its domestic resources and industry, however painful in the short-term.
Their mostly right about this, Europe, Asia, and the Third World suffered more from the 2008 crisis then the US did itself tbh and arguably the same can be said about the Great Depression–even though the crisis originated in America in both cases. The 1997-98 East Asian-Russian crisis hardly effected America's elites at all and barely slowed the US growth.
That's what they want foreigners to believe but ruling classes are a reflection of the people they rule and vice versa. Nixon seriously wanted to use nukes in Vietnam and there are many cases of ruling class idiocy that rarely make it in the mainstream press because they want feminist nerds with glasses like you to at least think their "reasonable" people
Here's Hudson's book for reference, read it and you'll see what I'm saying is accurate, he called it all way back in the 70s.
Zachary Bell
Do you know what these places all have in common?
They're not around Japan and China and South Korea and Indonesia and Australia
Elijah King
I am at a loss here. Are you saying that the CIA did not destabilize and/or initiate regime change here? Are you implying the deep state had nothing to do with the Chinese Civil War or the Khmer Rouge or the regime change in Iran?
No memes, genuinely perplexed user
Ryder Garcia
Yes, it really is. Because this isn't playing with our own economy, this is playing with the security of all economies around China within the South China Sea. It would be flagrant betrayl of trust and economic certainty, and the US dollar would collapse, the Japanese Yen would collapse, the Chinese Yen/Yuan would collapse, as well as the Chinese Renminbi.
This would hurt more than anything compared to leaving the gold standard.
This would be like slitting open your stomach and watching your guts spill out because of an upset stomach.
It won't happen. It might happen, but within the timeframe of 4 to 8 years? You would have to be stupid or out of your mind to believe that.
Aaron Wilson
No.
The US gave this shit up when we begin mutual economic exchange with China which forced all Western nations and nations around China to do the same.
The economy is what they are fighting for, not the destruction of it.
Jackson Lopez
OP here, i was really sceptical about the China hostilities, until the Taiwan call (experts say it was pre-planned, John "Dimwit" Bolton suggested such a plan like in January, Trump is using his playbook now to test him to be SoS)
Also the fucking Rand Corporation has actually mapped this shit out this August, as planning hit a strategic phase.
Probably the world's biggest shithole and definitely the biggest shithole in Asia and also completely cucked to America. They killed 3 million communists or merely suspected communists along with 1/3 the population of East Timor just because America snapped its fingers. They were more violent in serving American interests then America wanted to be. There are low-intensity civil wars going on here all the time, like the genocide being perpetuated by the Javanese ruling class against West Papua. Everyone knows its a powder-keg and will explode if the right match is struck. That's why advocating secession is against the law in Indonesia despite the fact that any rational mind would want to secede from that shithole and they have so many islands that the central government doesn't even have an accurate count of all them.
Asher Gutierrez
I think anfem tripnigger's right for once.
The article takes a Rand corporation contingency planning paper and runs with it like Evel Knievel jumping the grand canyon on a tricycle. Holla Forums does the same thing - anytime NATO does something in eastern Europe is proof that the US is preparing to invade Russia because reasons
Jack Morris
That article as I skimmed it is what would happen if China struck first not vice versa, and China is doing the same propaganda.
Do you know why? To learn best how to scare its citizens into not wanting to go to war with one another.
I was listing the countries who's economies would tank, I forgot to mention Taiwan and Cambodia, etc.
The rest of your argument isn't relevant.
Even Australia would probably have an economic meltdown. In fact Australia as an ally would suffer the most.
This is truly fucking impossible in every flavor of the word.
Jason Green
NO. Deep state continues to destabilize Thailand through right wing royalist junta. Deep state influence Taiwanese student movement. Deep state toppled Ukrainian Russian puppet government. Deep state created Alt-Right. They are not done at all. They would happily destroy asian elite if given the chance. These men are mentally ill they don't understand the meaning of peace
Jacob Barnes
Haha, of course it isnt, like this is public domain, and there's such a thing as diplomacy still.
Most of this is propaganda, but the time of publication signifies escalating tensions, and the two militaries gradually gearing up. Meaning that financial markets, risk analysts etc. also are trying to find ways to minimize the effect. What I can imagine is that provoked small-scale hostilities will start first, giving finance enough time to take the right moves.
Lucas Lewis
Pilger's tended in recent years to overlap fact with fiction. An-Fem's not right though. Military decision making is not inseparably welded with their view on the metaphysical interests of capital.
Kayden Gray
They weren't playing just with their own economy or their own money either, Japanese and the money from other East Asian partners was also in the mix then too.
Again, you overlook the fact that the return on US treasury bonds is already close to or at zero, yet people still invest in them because they literally don't know what to do with the dollars. The US doesn't have to go bankrupt it can keep "paying" these debts using the printing press it owns.
The world is going to continue to let them keep doing that because that's what's been happening in decades. I just laid out the alternative scenario in case China wanted to readjust its debts accounting for interests–which they couldn't do unilaterally or bilaterally because the change would affect us bondholders all over the world.
The Asian ruling classes willfully traded good money for bad money. Deal with it. Reality doesn't change just because you want to believe the Asian Age of Kangz has returned.
It reads more to me like marketing. It seems like scaring the public back into which weird countries aren't able to be attacked, not actually going to war.
You're acting like I give a shit about the Asian ruling class because I'm Asian.
I do not.
I am saying the likelihood of this event happening in 4 to 8 years is 0.00%
It's more likely Alien Abduction is real.
Joshua Flores
...
Adrian James
Global warming will fuck us over, though. So where to?
Andrew Kelly
Spotted the infiltrator.
Nathaniel Reed
...
Brandon White
Every Asian nation works together and loves each other
lol
Confucius say….
Cameron Howard
Do the Han accept "race traitors"?
Asking for, uh…, reasons.
I have more faith in chinas army than I have in the european one
Juan Hernandez
Prepare to be treated like Holla Forums treats black people if you want to move to anywhere in Asia.
The people who say they shower you in praise only have gone to Japan or island nations. Even then.
Mainland Asia is not that. You would learn what being an outcast truly feels like.
Yes asians are secretly borderline KKK, Nazi level racists behind closed doors. Big secret Idpol faggots would never admit
Justin Evans
I can't comment too much on that, but to me it just seems like another contingency in the event that war with China does occur. Either way it happens (through US or Chinese aggression) it'll pretty much spell the end of the current global financial system at the very least
The paper is apparently available online, but I doubt it was created at the behest of a cabal of General Ripper-types hoping that it will convince President Trump to declare war on the "ChiComs"
Xavier Martin
Maybe if you see it as a negative, you wouldn't double down on it. Alas, Asians are truly our worst enemies, and old Asian people hurt my feelings
Easton Carter
I feel like im missing something here.
Cameron Cook
implying he isn't one already since he's asking fora chink wife Holla Forums is a board of peace niggers =/= black people
Juan Davis
as i pointed out earlier, it just signifies that it is a scenario they started considering and for whatever reason, they want to let the public know too. you know Rand is the federal strategic planning entity.
Zachary Ramirez
This is like looking at a lost child in costco
Tyler Roberts
This because you are Azn yes? They are not so bad. Food is superb (mostly vegetarian, low carbon impact prior to Porky). Aesthetics are gorgeous. Only problem is patriarchy and entrenched autocratic tendencies
Matthew Cook
4/10 made me google what costco is
Grayson Clark
I fucking seriously doubt this isn't all a game of pressure. We didn't go to war with Russia, and we could have for more reasons than we currently have for warring with China
this just seems utterly pointless and counter intuitive
Parker Reyes
I guess you are lost.
Dylan Myers
I dont have a relationship, nor do I live in asia or anything.
Just a normal european kid who sees the absolute incompetence of the EU and I highly doubt I will be able to survive a war against any nation. I dont have anyone who I need to stay here for, so I am just weighing my options. You know, plan ahead just in case.
I am not too keen on joining another several million of my countrymen in a wargrave defending a country I already do not give much of a fuck about.
Lucas Perry
Also I dont want to move to the USA. I might consider south america though. Canada is probably going to suck USA dick and im not too keen on russia either.
Adrian Hill
go to Kazakhstan it's a wide country
Nicholas Perry
Isnt kazakstan like right between russia and the middle east?
Mongolia is an option too, although thats is a bit barren to build a new life.
Evan Ortiz
Let's go through it again: 1. You said that the America won't go to war with China because it owed too much debt. this is really irrelevant to whether two countries will go to war Germany owed America a lot of debt and did a good deal of trade with America prior to WWII 2. I said that that doesn't really matter since accounting for inflation the US really isn't paying its debts anyway. And if forced, key word would threaten to tank the global economy, like they did in the 70s. Nobody's going to call America on its bluff because they don't want another recession so the chances of that happening are even lower then the 0.00% chance you give for America willingly tanking the global economy. 3. I also pointed that trying to resolve this issue, say with a business or dollar boycott, would mean abstaining from the US-centric world system. China has no choice but to put US dollars back into the world system because it doesn't know what to do with the dollars it gets from trading with the US. What about my posts wasn't clear? I thought Asians were supposed to be good at school?
Ethan Morris
Because China (and Russia) are the most probable places where great power conflict with US interests would occur, unlike the EU. In the '20s-'30s the US drew up a bunch of contingency plans in the event of war with an Anglo-Japanese alliance, and we all know how things ultimately turned out.
I'm sure whatever strategic planning organisation is based in Beijing has drawn up similar contingencies in event of war with the US (or Russia)
Landon Young
Dont be a racist bully, they send all their retarded people to america, just like europe did.
Hunter Parker
the ex-soviet countries are pretty tame while has a nazi party
Angel Robinson
Your mistake is you think the US is a rational actor, they are not. There are plenty of psychos at the top who 100% believe in US manifest destiny and think the US will usher in a new global age when China, Iran and Russia are taken out.
I can tell you right now, from being friends with someone who was a direct advisor to Donald Rumsfeld at JCOS, that he says that war with China is inevitable and China is the end game. It's the whole move behind the Asia Pivot and why Australia for example started moving it's forces to it's northern border, while several thousand US troops were moved to Australia.
As a Socialist, you should really understand by now the US is not driven by rationality, but by ideology. Why in fuck would anyone want war with Iran? Why in fuck did the US overthrow secular regimes in the middle east putting islamofascist psychos in power? Why does the US bomb civilians, then say they didn't bomb civilians when the bombs have big "MADE IN AMERICA" on them?
The US is not a rational actor. It's goal is not global cooperation, it's global dominance and the neo-cons are stronger than ever.
Adam Robinson
Thats hilarious.
I will add it to my mental list of backup plans.
Dominic Collins
Contingency planning is still part of the broader sense of strategy. Pilger ellides fiction into fact solely from the alarmist premise that military accidents are part of history. Imagine a political assassination by the Saudi Regime within Iran, or the 'accidental' violation of a ceasefire.
If RAND is the 'federal strategic planning entity', then it must be representative of the anxieties and interests of some cross-section of elites. The fact that they took to publishing the paper is a deliberate signal to a specific spectrum of actors with specific knowledges on the matter.
Carson Ross
Well it will. Global nuclear winter.
Lincoln Hughes
If you actually were "good at school" you would see the implausibility of this scenario in this decade.>>1126190
If our retarded can outcompete your most intelligent than what does that say about whites who can't even graduate into a university
They are not when it comes to where they don't cause harm to their economic interests.
Turning Japan's economy is fucking ludicrous, this isn't going to happen.
Japan would go to war with China before the US does
Adam Bailey
It's a think tank, not a prophet. This is more like what media narrative to feed for a reaction wanted.
Brody Allen
You misunderstand. America is where all the retarded white people went.
Jaxson Peterson
fuck off retard
Oliver Garcia
I don't care?
You fuck off friend
Carson Bell
I bet you care more about architecture dont ya
Isaiah Torres
What does the average white in Europe care about these days
Everything America shat out and recycled a few years back with a sophist air of sophistication?
Because even that's gone. You're hardly different than America, you just have actual public services. Just being dismantled though.
Gabriel Cruz
is eastern europe europe?
Juan Jackson
I like their booze better than piss American swill, I'm not sure I care much about them more than that
Chase Rogers
we are gradually being americanised with the help of the old "race card" imported into europe pitting whites against african and middle eastern immigrants. so they can sneak in and privatise all our public services.
Nathaniel Cruz
When russia is going to invade. If we're going to be attacked by ISIS. If our country will flood due to global warming. Mass unemployment. The fracturing of a union of historically very fractured people who have started both world wars.
American pop culture is not as important as you think.
I would consider everything from spain to russia to greek european, but the turks aren't.
Austin King
Also this. Getting fucking tired of this shit. Politics and opinions used to be (somewhat) rational but now its becoming more and more identity politics.
Jose Walker
You dorks are ignoring the fact the F-35 isn't actually meant to be a good fighter. Multi-role aircraft are a meme. At most you only want an aircraft to perform just a couple of roles. The purpose of these types of massive projects is to develop new tech that can be used to either upgrade or build new specialized fighters. Also arms manufacturers have too much say in spending so the government gets ripped off overpaying for this shit.
Gavin Gray
Kek. I'm not even the one who claimed that a war with China is imminent and I never have. I just challenged your assertions about the US-Chian economic relationship and you got triggered and sperged out everywhere. You never really refuted anything I said you just said the worst case economic scenario will probably never happened, something I never claimed it would. All I want you to see is that just because the US and China have close economic-political ties doesn't mean war can't happen.
Wew, you guys are the new Jews, you're culturally accepted as white but you go on condemning racism while being more racist and getting more muh privileges then the "dumb white trash" your condemning. www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/asian.htm
Jordan James
Then you're wrong. It isn't just that we rely on China for labor and their enormous market and their own currency, but the fact of the nations around them being economicly dependent on this fragile balance, even Australia.
War won't happen in this decade or the next. Probably, it won't happen for decades if it ever does. It might happen if times get desperate enough in the future.
Until then thinking it won't be more of the same is what I've heard for years now.
What do you even think of debate. This isn't sperging out this is debate.
Henry Powell
*US-China relationship **you're condemning
Thomas Sanchez
They toppled secular regimes for business reasons and that goes for China as well. I think in the US some people in power(and those telling them what to do) think they can come out ahead even if it destroys both nation's economies in the short term. China reduced to vassal status, the following reconstruction, and access to all the Chinese partners/claims is very tempting even if it's fucking insane on multiple levels.
Adam Ortiz
America sees war as an investment and has for over a century.
If you look at it from that perspective, US foreign policy begins to make clear sense.
Warring with China right now makes no god damn sense. A bunch of people in congress would lock down and the state would flip on one another.
If we even get close, the 0.001% chance we do this decade, it'd just look like a federal lock.
Daniel Wilson
If it happens at all its likely to be in this decade as Rand points out here:
So, based on this if we ever go to war with China–and I'm not saying that we will, but if we do it will be sooner rather then later (globalresearch.ca/thinking-through-the-unthinkable-rand-corporation-lays-out-scenarios-for-us-war-with-china/5539758). That makes sense right now the US has a more powerful military, on paper at least, and right now the US has a greater standing with the rest of the Western imperialist world and has some powerful Asian allies like Japan whose not only itching to regain its status as an Asian military power but also to be seen again as an "economic superpower"
The TPP and TTIP really weren't just free trade deals but a powerful anti-China economic block. Even though China has a long way to go before its economy is larger then America's in absolute dollar terms in PPP its economy is as big or larger then America's. That makes it the obvious first choice imperialist competitor–the US will attempt to undercut China's economy and to isolate it first before going to war with it. But the makings of that are already here with the election of Trump who promises trade war with China.
This is really a geopolitical argument more then a real economic argument. Yes, the balance between the US, China, Japan and the ASEAN countries is fragile but it has little to do with the American debt in the abstract. This fragile balance is already disturbed with the election of Duterte, who at least in words, promises to be more pro-Russia/China then pro-US. At some point either China or the US must dominate this region one will give way or another that fragile balance won't hold.
In the realm of US-China economic relations, China has some critical weaknesses that are unseen while the US has some unseen strengths. Thats why the US isn't just going to yield to China its position as leader of the imperialist world, getting past their obvious fanaticism, the US ruling class does know that it still has some trick cards.The most dangerous thing for China imo is its Old World mentalities much like Europe did before and after WWI it saw the US from its own viewpoint and perspective and not how it actually was. Insane or not, the US ruling class is extremely clever, all in all.
Logan Davis
To anfem Your argument is the exact same one made for why another general European war would never be fought before World War 1 To a certain point the economic threat of a conflict can keep it at bay but the United States and the world is inching towards another great crisis China is slowly becoming the number 1 economy in the world and the eternal burger will notry let go of its dominance easily just as Great Britain found it fit to contain Germany in 1914
Cooper Price
I don't think it's a short term plan. China has been a bogeyman for the US longer than even Russia so a little fear mongering here and there makes sense. The amount of investment specifically in containing China when there are other interests to pursue is somewhat concerning. There actually was some opposition to the pivot voiced earlier in the Obama administration, but I guess they backed down. Similar to how some minor factions in Germany want realignment with Russia over the US(never gonna happen). We have a big enough military and enough capital in the arms industry to fuck around, but doing so at the expense of interests in the middle east and Africa is questionable. The holding back of full involvement in those regions may just be a fear of anti-war sentiment so re-gearing toward long term goals would make sense. Privatization and militarizing of the police would work toward the longer term goal of both crushing dissent and turning the US into a better cheap labor soure for greater economic independence from China. Also, play it out right and in a couple decades the US might be able to bait a Pearl Harbor out of China to "justify" war.
Really the government would prefer to keep up pressure and destabilize the regime without interrupting business if possible, but we've been trying to do that since the revolution with no real success. In the longer term as Chinese labor becomes more expensive and is increasingly moved to south Asia, India, and Africa things may change. I think war is inevitable, but not something that will happen until after we have achieved greater economic independence from them. You have to understand that the military and general foreign policy establishment work towards long term ideological goals too. Business rules the country, but corporations in general are focused on the short term. The super wealthy members of the bourgeosie and the political establishment are more ideoogical than you think and profit is a part of what plays into this ideology.
Really, I think people are downplaying the military build up too much and others seem to think it's something that could happen any day now. This is a long term plan a part of the general goal of global American dominance. American capitalists don't want to share with the Chinese capitalists and this will eventually come to a head.