Why is Silent Hill PT such a jumpscare fest? And why is it critically acclaimed, even by most SH fans...

You don't recall them then

Not if you are playing it on a real PS1. The rendering resolution and the dithering makes it almost impossible to make shit out in the fog.

In SH1 I remember being surprised by a cat jumping out of a locker, and then a dead body from another locker, that's all. SH2 has that mannequin, and I don't know what else.

Apathy and love are not the same thing.

SH3 has a mannequin getting beheaded off camera.

The screamer outside of the cafe is perfectly visible on the window as you approach the radio, you clearly have to play again.

I don't remember much about sh3, haven't finished that game either.

Well, is kind of a fake out, you see all these mannequins in a room, nothing suspicious, you take an item and leave the room, as soon as you reach the door you hear a female scream, when you turn back the mannequin is bloody and beheaded.

Anyone here seen the movie Phantoms (1998)?

It has so many similarities to Silent Hill 1, which came out half a year later. With the production cycle I doubt the devs copied anything, it's just very interesting to see how such similar things in different mediums were being produced at the same time.

SH2 has the toilet scream in the prison's women's bathroom. I nearly shat myself on that one.

The one where there are no people and all that?

Yeah. It came out here after I had played SH and for example there's almost exact same scene in a cafe where a flying screamer monster flies through the window.

if TPC are correct then it was one of the many influences for Silent Hill.

inb4 shilling, I won't make a webm pack just because you don't like the guys.

Looks like you linked the wrong part, but I'll check it out.

I linked the part about films, the first one is about books, maybe Phantoms was a novel first.

...

It was. I'll take a look, it's a lazy saturday.

Ah hey actually, I remember there being a Koontz Street in SH1.

Sometimes I wish we just marathoned TRSHE on synchtube or the like.

Wow user, that's kinda weird.

Graphical fidelity. While it's usually not too important, horror games are largely about immersion and having really realistic graphics sure as fuck helps making it feel "real."
Also, only two things in that video are jumpscares (attacks and possessions). That's hardly a jumpscare fest. It's mostly a floppy-lady fest.

It also has one fall through the roof toward the end of the carnival section. I think it hangs by a noose and is apparently called Danny.

I read the book and fucking loved it, wasn't aware it had been made into a movie.

Is it worth a pirate or is it a complete waste of time?

Yes, the hanged dude.

It's a decent 90s horror flick with hot Rose McGowan and creepy Liev Schreiber. Also Peter Toole shows up.

But it has Ben Affleck as protag so that can be a deal breaker.

I think it's worth the watch, I haven't read the book so might be nice to compare it.

It might be the first survival horror with realistic graphics, but with UE4 even indie kiddies can create even better looking graphics. For example, Visage and Allison Road.

As real as horror flicks maybe. IRL, ghosts don't just jump on your face. Spiritual anomaly is very subtle, ghosts are slow creatures. Stalker (the movie) is probably the most accurate portrayal of paranormal anomalies.

You encounter the lady in the hallway, window, and mirror without warning, unlike the old silent hill and it's radio. Those count as jumpscare. And you also forgot the part when she closed the bathroom door, appeared on second floor, and peeped through a hole (not shown in this vid).

In such a short game that is.

Ayy, I'd love to fuck the feminist out of that stupid whore.

"Oh shit" moment. It's something pulling away without a loud noise. Not something coming towards you going "ABOOGABOOGABOO!!1!"
The thing falling is loud, so that could be a bit of a jumpscare I guess, but her appearing up there sure as fuck isn't one.
Not a jump scare.

In fact, I take back what I said. The possessions aren't even jumpscares. Just the attacks and the lamp dropping. I still count all the attacks as one thing, so two jumpscares in a game with considerably more jiggle-lady moments, bloody crying/talking fetuses, non-euclidean environments, and a whole lot of nothing (building tension).

Did anyone on the internet manage to dump this from their PS4? At least that way I will be able to play it when the console is finally hacked.

P.T. wasn't Silent Hills, it had hints of the story in it but the gameplay wasn't going to be similar. There's a reason why P.T. was being marketed as an indie game until someone actually beat the whole thing and unlocked the Silent Hills teaser.

wtf i hate kojima now

SH1 has a jump scare about twice, once with the bat monster and one cat scare.

The bat monster was used as a jump scare to establish that there are monsters. The cat scare actually gets used to setup a much creepier moment.

later

Good horror can still utilize jump scares, they are't inherently bad. Hell, even The Shining had 3 jump scares. The problem is when they are the only way the film uses to scare the audince, or used in place of building tension. In the words of Alfred Hitchcock

What about using a jump scare to set up an even creepier fake out, like in

What do you think of that use of it? It'd be pretty hard to do in a movie, but in a game it works i think. It ties into what Hitchcock said about keeping the audience informed in that it gives you three bits of infomation:

So the player is left to suspect that there's something in there because there was before, the darkworld bullshit has made it worse ie monster, and the player HAS to check it because that area needs certain items to continue.

The twist in hitchcock's bit is that it's empty, it subverts audience expectation and wrenches the thought that they knew what what was going on away from them, which plays into the fear of the unknown that Silent Hill delves into.

There's a bad jump scare in SH3 with the bleeding manniquin, since it ties into nothing and isn't used to set up anything.

I think that if you have to use a jumpscare when you're REALLY trying to horrify people, you should use that scare to set up other ones.

Yeah, pretty much. The idea is that the jump scare needs to add something, not just be used as payoff.

Das bullshit.

She appeared out of nowhere. That still counts as jumpscare.

As long as it relies on making the player feel startled, it's jumpscare.

Such spontaneous and instantaneous movement counts as jumpscare.

The fetus wasn't a jumpscare though.

The only tension to be had is waiting for another jumpscare.

Scaring the player being is cheap entertainment and really quite easy to be done in video games. I don't disagree that expecting a jumpscare is the scariest kind of scare out there. The main selling point of the old Silent Hill is not the scares, but the grimdark supernatural atmosphere derived from the rotting and decaying environment that makes you feel uneasy rather than terrorized.

Take a glance at this eerie dream sequence from Zerkalo. It's not suspenseful, and no jumpscare to be found anywhere, but it is indeed weird. We expected to watch a normal scene of a woman washing her hair, but it's full of anomalies, such as the synthesized noises, a japanese ghost like figure (even if it's just a regular woman), the ceiling falling apart into the watery floor, and so on. This kind of uneasiness derived from the aesthetics of distorted reality is the quality scare. It doesn't have to make you shocked, startled, suspense, or even fainted from fear, it just needs to display an psychologically ambiguous image. A subtle breaking of the fourth wall.

I notice that kojima tried to create a similar psychologically ambiguous image, but he failed miserably. The game still resorts to shock rather than aesthetic. The atmosphere and distortion of reality is ruined by sudden changes of pacing, removing all the subtle from the image. It betrayed the original spirit of the series, it replaced the "aesthetically horror" with a plain popcorn horror. Kojima aimed to torture the sadomasochistic audience rather than to show them the paradox of hideousness and beauty containing each other in an absurd sense of reality.

Kuckbrick a hack.

So anons, what if we marathon TRSHE? maybe a few hours from now? it would be on sychtu.be, I would just need to set up the playlist.

well I guess I'm not playing this for a few months

Play it, its okay compared to SH3. Also knowing the twist sort of ruins it.

Don't be a pussy, I don't get how people can get scared like that (I mean, as far as to not play at night)

for reference, I never made it through The Witch's House and got pretty solidly spooped by Ib. I think it's in my best interest to stay away when it's dark

You don't need to worry about SH2, it's a lot more gloomy than anything.

I'm playing it pretty much blind to the details and I decided it was 2spoopy when I actually made it into the town and had to follow the shadow

watch jacobs ladder. its pretty much what silent hill based most of their shit. you will see a ton of things that team silent used as inspiration. great movie though i highly recommend it

this is what i love about team silent. they used this philosophy to make their games. they would take anything normal, like a sound or a place like an abandoned building and just twisted. They would make the object looks more horrific but at the same time it made you wanna explore it, it made you wanna look at it closer despite of how horrific it might. This is what i loved about the early silent hill games. They truly played with your mind. the sound design in SH3 was superb.

One thing fromm jacobs ladder that transfers to silent hill is the line

"So the way he sees it, if you're frightened of dying and… and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth. It's just a matter of how you look at it, that's all."

In a way, Silent Hill has sort of been an ally for the protagonists if you look at it differently.

For one, it protected Alessa, it helped James as best it could through his depression via epiphany therapy, It gave SH3's cult a hell of a time apparently, and in SH4 i have no idea what the fuck it was doing but then again Henry wasn't in Silent Hill at all.

In Homecoming it gets revenge for the dead, in Downpour it's pretty much all about that therapy angle and so on.

i like to think that walter sullivan truly is the protagonist of SH4. We just see it from another perspective, henry townsend. After all, who can say what monsters really look like? a matter of perspective.

Since Henry was basically a player avatar, yes, Walter was the more prominent figure in the game.

Lisa suddenly appearing on the second floor, behind the window and in your shadow are not jumpscares. They don't have any sudden noises, sudden instant change of imagery or come after long moments of suspense.
She's there, but she isn't suddenly appearing in front of the players face. The player just sets his eyes on her, and, except for one occurrence, she remains there without suddenly disappearing, which unnerves the player rather then startle.
If we're going to count those as jumpscares, we might as well say that when someone looks at a spooky image that isn't suddenly throw in his face, its a jumpscare.
I wouldn't even say something is a jumpscare if you can expect it. Peeking into the door is done after some cockroaches scurries out of the room, which gives the impression that something is in there.
Heck, the attacks can be expected if you look at your shadow, or if you hear what the radio tells you.
The possessions are another thing that can be expected, unless you don't think something is going to happen when you walk up to a monster.
The window is the definitive jumpscare. It comes after a long period of silence, it's loud and creates a sudden change of imagery.
Have you actually played the game, or did you just look at a play through and thought the game is just jumpscares. It's more unnerving then startling

Several mirrors of the PKG exist. It's still DRM locked but if a breakthrough comes out it should be possible to play.

Compared to the old silent hill, yes they do. There was no radio warning whereas in the old silent hill there is. The movement of hers can also be defined as sudden changes of image.

She is, even if it's not from 1 feet away from the player. The utilization of first person view can be taken as a factor of this jumpscare.

The player would look away most of the time though.

It is quite sudden, compared to the older silent hill games.

Most of the time, you can't, and sudden change of images would still startle you, expected or not.

Those signals are too complex for the intuition to comprehend.

That has nothing to do with sudden change of images.

I have, my buddy somehow still kept this game on his PS4, but it wasn't much different from watching.

Kojima made it pretty clear PT is just a teaser showing what kind of areas they can make, and that the actual Silent Hills game would be similar to the original games in the sense that you try to solve a mystery, except in first person view. Not a jumpscare fest, they just packed the playable teaser full of different kinds of stuff into a small sample.

two can play at this multiple-responses-in-one-post shit, faglord

yes there is. if you can't identify the audio cue that she's nearby you're a retard
she only pops up in your face if she's going to kill you, and at that point you've just ignored the audio warnings or failed to notice the cues
again, there's an extremely obvious audio cue that she's coming. also, you're given plenty of time to notice her - i actually timed the shadow thing and you get like ten seconds to notice her shadow before she gets you. if you need more than that then i don't know what to tell you
you're retarded. you ruined it for yourself by not even playing it, and by sitting in a room with another person while they played it

tl;dr your taste is shit and your arguments are shit

Silent Hill was always a pretty shitty game

SH was hardly a 4th wall breaking thing you know, at least not the way Kojima made PT, and 4th wall breaking is anything but scary after the first time.

No there isn't. What I mean is the radio screeches that alerts that there's an enemy nearby.

Too close or not there's a sudden change of image.

Do you not know the definition of intuition?

I've both played it and watched it.

Gameplay wise, story wise, and puzzle wise, but the aesthetics is extremely innovative.

I saw that movie years ago. All I remember about it is a guy having hallucinations about black claws growing out of his body and killing his girlfriend or something.

their puzzles are some of the most well crafted puzzles ive ever encounter. The Shakespeare one from SH3 was awesome which i imagine it must have been puzzling as fuck for those not versed with shakespeare's works, as well as the poem that talks about a man stalking a pretty girl and mutilating her face. To solve the puzzle you had to imagine the face as a keypad and follow the order which parts of the head he mutilated first.

the movie helped me cope with a traumatic moment in my life. It led me to a lot of literature from different religions/beliefs to understand more about myself. Thats why i love silent hill, the depictions of people's torments in the game just hit really hard.

Just finished watching it, what an absolute shit-show.

Read the book, user. If you liked the movie, the book was 10000x better.

The problem is, riddles, puzzles, and such don't mix well with the supernatural theme of the game. It simplifies supernatural into an enigma and then into a conundrum. It's stupid. Supernatural theme should be handled with faith and intuition. By using faith it isn't supposed to be a mystery to be solved or a code to be deciphered, but a set of procedures to be followed. By creating puzzle solving mechanics, betrayed are all the paranormal anomaly and the feeling of being overwhelmed. It gives us a sense of winning. No, I'm not saying that a walking simulator is better than adventure-puzzle game. I'm suggesting that the puzzles should be intuition based, the answer should be obvious if the player is willing to read and understand the lore, like the concept of virtue in christian religion.

Cat locker. Broken glass room. The phone. Loud as fuck bird cage. That one room where you hear a loud THUD when you approach the window.
The brilliant thing is, SH's jumpscares were all harmless and in the most boring places.

One of the regular school's bathrooms has a weeping girl. I still remember when I found that for the first time. It was freaking unsettling.
Atmosphere and sound design are SH's finest points.

I don't think that was a jumpscare, but I disliked that moment.

Haven't seen the movie or read the book, but can you explain why the book is better?

That doesn't make any sense. Solving a stupid boring puzzle that requires a lot of prior reading will grant you as much satisfaction as solving a logic based puzzle.

Like the answer comes immediately? There's supposed to be a challenge.

I wouldn't call it a jumpscare either. It's more of an extra, optional 'scare chord' element.

I wouldn't call this kind of puzzle stupid or boring. It comes down to how well written the lore and reading materials are, the books have to be interesting to read. Player's satisfaction comes from the necessity of discovering and understanding the lore. Discovering how to apply a lore item on a lethal hazard based on a book you read rather than your pure logic is both satisfying and immersive.

Immediately? No, patience and reading comprehension are supposed to be required to understand the problem. The reading materials too have to be a decently challenging read rather than a bland short prose you find in typical japanese survival horror games.

I also dislike how puzzles in Silent Hill are used to progress the game instead of avoiding an extremely deadly combat and environmental hazard. I think the player should be given a chance to take a huge risk of progressing the game without reading a walkthrough. Like a stealth game where face to face combat approach takes a much bigger risk than stealth approach, puzzle solving approach should become a useful alternative in survival horror rather than a mandatory thing.

Like in real life where you can't do absolutely everything perfectly. In a task we meet, there are always things that we didn't figure out, but we got the job done regardless. Optional puzzle also adds the replay value of revisiting things that we didn't do well in the previous playthrough, and it gives the game a lot of immersion value.

Then you admit what you said makes no sense.

You get the same sense of winning from logic puzzles.

Why the fuck would you read a walkthrough in the first place? are you suggesting that you need a walkthrough to solve a puzzle?

You have no fucking idea why puzzles exist in horror games in the first place. If your playthrough can be comprised of just action with nothing to break the tension then the point is lost.

What? I'm against riddles and reading between lines, but not against spending effort in finishing puzzles.

Same? Not really. Paranormal anomaly is not a conundrum, it isn't something we or the story are supposed to explain fully. It's an unsolvable mystery that requires faith and intuition.

No, but people have different capacity of making logical insight and reading between lines. I just want to give the game a sense of realism and free will.

Or is it you being a gullible victim of a formulaic concept?

But the player should be severely punished for doing that, like in a stealth game. Now replace the stealth element of a stealth game with puzzles, and you'll get my idea.

Make resorting to action an idea in a survival horror game, an immensely bad idea, but an idea regardless. We ask the player, "which one would you trust, your brain or your luck?" Some people will choose the second option, and there's nothing wrong with that although that's the hard way. Give the player a chance to utilize their intuition.

And just for a comparison, can you finish a level of the first Splinter Cell game without doing stealth at all? That is close to impossible. But even though there are chances where we fail a stealth sequence and have to resort to violence, there's still a slight chance that the game will forgive you for that failure. You gotta be quite lucky though.

I liked it because it looked so good, much better than other games in the realism aspect

I think this looks more realistic. Regarding realism, I don't think the ghost in PT acts realistically.

pls stop :)

One of those explains horror, the other is shitty jumpscares.

are there any good horror games on PC that succeed at doing what RE7 is trying to do? Basically, slow paced first person horror games with combat.

Condemned. Great combat. The only things I hate are the cinematic segments though, and the sleuth gameplay is getting boring. Otherwise, great game. After playing Condemned, I have some hope in RE7.

If you can stomach a not so great port job, Condemned maybe?

downloading it now.

And yeah, after the announcement of the "family men" who look like more traditional zombies, I'm willing to give it a go when it comes out.

yep, this is exactly what I wanted. Also, got the fps fixed with a patch.

It's weird to think that not to long ago games were this good.

It always surprises me how not-awful Silent Hill 1's sewer level is. It still sucks but it's fairly straight forward and it's difficult to get lost in it unlike other sewer levels where they're just a maze.

It was awful. The only good sewer level is in Soldiers of Fortune.